• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:48
CEST 09:48
KST 16:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
2v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature0Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy8uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event17Serral wins EWC 202549Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments7[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10
StarCraft 2
General
2v2 and SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Is there a way to see if 2 accounts=1 person? uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments SEL Masters #5 - Korea vs Russia (SC Evo) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Enki Epic Series #5 - TaeJa vs Classic (SC Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Pre-season Tier List ranking! ASL 20 HYPE VIDEO! BW AKA finder tool BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches KCM 2025 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI The year 2050
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 610 users

Pokémon Go! - Page 94

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 92 93 94 95 96 200 Next
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-23 17:17:46
September 23 2016 15:02 GMT
#1861
But I've been saying all along that all of the major grass contenders do better than Vaporeon vs a water type (maybe Vileplume is close). So if I'm using a weaker than Venusaur grass pokemon and still finding that to be true I don't see how whether or not I have a Venusaur to be relevant. Sure I used Venusaur in examples, but nothing I said has to apply specifically to Venusaur given how close the others are in stats.


Anyways we can quickly look at Solar Beam vs Hydro Pump since you don't want to for some reason... Assuming level 30 100% IVs...

Formula is Floor(½*Power*(Attack/Defense)*STAB∗Effectiveness)+1.

Hydro Pump vs a Vaporeon will do 50 damage (13.1 DPS)
Solar Beam (Venusaur) vs a Vaporeon will do 105 damage. (21.8 DPS)

So Solar Beam does 210% the damage and 160% of the DPS that Hydro Pump Does. But DPS for charge moves isn't a great metric really (since their true DPS depends on the energy generation rate).

So lets simulate a battle...

Assuming 2 attacks a cycle for Vine whip and 3 attacks/cycle for Water Gun. Both need 15 attacks to charge their move. We'll pit them against a 402 hp Vaporeon defender (which is what a 100% IV level 30 Vaporeon will have when its hp is doubled. We could use 422 as well, somewhere one of us seems to have used the wrong number though, probably me)

Vaporeon will get Hydro Pump in 5 cycles having dealt 60 damage (total damage 110)
Venusaur will get Solar Beam in 7.5 cycles after dealing 90 damage after Solar Beam (total damage 205)

So the 2nd Solar Beam + two attacks will kill Vaporeon instantly.

For Vaporeon you have to use 3 hydro pumps (330 damage) and then you have to deal an additional 72 damage (18 regular attacks or 15 + charge, but that's a waste of charge) which is another 6 cycles. So that's 21 cycles total.

But a kicker there is that you're also able to spike down Vaporeon with the second Solar Beam (just attack a bit extra before using it) which makes it pretty likely that you avoid at least one additional special attack.

Due to energy from hp loss the Venusaur 'denies' 52ish energy to the Vaporeon by spiking it down from 105 hp which is worth 1/2 a hydro pump or 2 water pulses. The Vaporeon is grinding out the enemy with regular attacks (or wasting energy generation opportunity) giving the enemy maximal chance to use more specials.

Anyways the point being when you do out something closer to the actual math and numbers you can see how there's a pretty significant difference in the way that the fight plays out. If you want to improve on it you can factor in the charge move time to the # of cycles (overall the Venusaur should spend less overall time executing charge moves, but more time per move). The other big difference is here our Vaporeon finishes the battle with 100% charge which is useful if there's an additional battle to follow and that could be somewhat accounted for (i.e will Vaporeon be slower to kill a single enemy Vaporeon, but faster to kill 2). That's getting a bit goofy though; you'll probably never see 2 identical vaporeons back to back so you can't really properly crunch numbers.


Though I'd say that's a good part of efficient gym battling... If you have a weaker Vaporeon followed by an Arcanine it's worth considering the possibility of using your own vaporeon to charge up a charge move to unleash immediately on the arcanine.

EDIT:

I also, obviously, didn't put in the damage each pokemon takes. Which is kind of an important omission. Lets assume the minimum possible damage taken (15 or 16 for Venusaur, 17 or 18 for Vaporeon) from quick attacks.

We can then maybe factor in the total energy the enemy mon has to work with which would be...

(hp - dmg of last attack) / 2 + (7 * # of attacks landed as estimated by # of cycles it takes to defeat the vaporeon). Though there's some general inaccuracy here, but I think it's close enough.

Vensaur would face up against: ~250 energy.
Vaporeon would face up against: ~339 energy.

We know a Hydro Pump in this case is ~50 damage (using it vs Vaporeon or Venusaur is about the same). At 25% that should be a difference of 12 hp of damage. So the Vaporeon should be taking something like an additional 20 damage compared to Venusaur taking something like 40.

Anyways there's all sorts of things to factor in and to figure out what criteria we are judging against but I was curious how well the raw damage worked out.
Logo
Laurens
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium4544 Posts
September 23 2016 15:25 GMT
#1862
So 21 cycles for Vaporeon vs 16 for Venusaur right?

Now just calculate how much damage they both take and what HP they're left with %-wise and we can get to the point I've tried to make all along

But it's weekend, I'll be back on Monday.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-23 17:21:56
September 23 2016 17:14 GMT
#1863
Well you can't easily because of the variance in special move usage by the AI, but it should be something like 40 dmg for Venusaur vs 60 which results in both of them being at about 70% hp against Hydro Pump if the enemy uses all of their energy for specials. The other specials would be harder to predict. For example Vaporeon would have around just enough energy for 5 Aqua Tails vs a Venusaur, but it would have to use the last one very close to when it dies.
Logo
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
September 23 2016 19:32 GMT
#1864
Question. Why are potions a thing people care about conserving? I get them at about the same rate as balls.
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
September 23 2016 19:39 GMT
#1865
On September 24 2016 04:32 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Question. Why are potions a thing people care about conserving? I get them at about the same rate as balls.

some people like to fight/prestige a lot. especially important in highly contested cities. like those shit heads who took down my level 10 gym, put up their own next to it and forced me to kick their ass back to the stone age while prestiging up my own.
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12704 Posts
September 23 2016 19:52 GMT
#1866
It's quite painful to be one fight from getting a slot in a gym and not have the potions/healthy pokemon to get there.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
September 23 2016 20:18 GMT
#1867
One thing I'm curious about... are people leaving their pokemon injured while they go from one place to the other or topping everyone back off after a fight?

I always try to have as many injured pokemon on hand as I can (as in fight with all the good ones rather than just the same 3-6 again and again) so I can leave them injured and heal them up with potions that I'd otherwise be throwing out for bag space anyways.
Logo
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
September 23 2016 20:28 GMT
#1868
On September 24 2016 05:18 Logo wrote:
One thing I'm curious about... are people leaving their pokemon injured while they go from one place to the other or topping everyone back off after a fight?

I always try to have as many injured pokemon on hand as I can (as in fight with all the good ones rather than just the same 3-6 again and again) so I can leave them injured and heal them up with potions that I'd otherwise be throwing out for bag space anyways.

i have so many max potions that i use them to heal 10 pts. my area is not highly contested so i dont get to fight all that much. the statement above i made about protecting my territory happens like once in a blue moon, and its quite exciting. i am not sure if i prefer the coins or the fights....
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-23 20:55:17
September 23 2016 20:51 GMT
#1869
On September 24 2016 05:28 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2016 05:18 Logo wrote:
One thing I'm curious about... are people leaving their pokemon injured while they go from one place to the other or topping everyone back off after a fight?

I always try to have as many injured pokemon on hand as I can (as in fight with all the good ones rather than just the same 3-6 again and again) so I can leave them injured and heal them up with potions that I'd otherwise be throwing out for bag space anyways.

i have so many max potions that i use them to heal 10 pts. my area is not highly contested so i dont get to fight all that much. the statement above i made about protecting my territory happens like once in a blue moon, and its quite exciting. i am not sure if i prefer the coins or the fights....


I have mostly the opposite where everything here is so highly contested that a lot of the gyms are just level 3, 4 or 5 because there's no stability to be had by training them up.
Logo
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
September 24 2016 04:37 GMT
#1870
I moved to San Jose today and found a lot of Ekans in my area, then I look at the gyms around me and sure enough they all had Arboks defending them -_-
Orcasgt24
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada3238 Posts
September 24 2016 05:58 GMT
#1871
Suddenly having crazy drowzee spawns looks good! lol

So im curious. Is the "downtown" areas of every city just a giant clefairy zone? I almost ever see them on any map in residential areas
In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4128 Posts
September 24 2016 07:23 GMT
#1872
So the latest update shows the location where you caught the Pokemon. So basically all the Pokemon you catch in Singapore will show "Singapore, , Singapore". How useful lol
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
September 24 2016 08:19 GMT
#1873
anyone else have their local police using pokemon scanners to catch bad drivers racing to catch pokemon as well? hahaha
© Current year.
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
September 24 2016 09:43 GMT
#1874
On September 24 2016 14:58 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Suddenly having crazy drowzee spawns looks good! lol

So im curious. Is the "downtown" areas of every city just a giant clefairy zone? I almost ever see them on any map in residential areas

I swear, Drowzees are super-common in my town. They are even more common than Pidgeys, Rattatas and Zubats
EZ4ENCE
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13974 Posts
September 24 2016 13:45 GMT
#1875
On September 24 2016 18:43 WindWolf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2016 14:58 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Suddenly having crazy drowzee spawns looks good! lol

So im curious. Is the "downtown" areas of every city just a giant clefairy zone? I almost ever see them on any map in residential areas

I swear, Drowzees are super-common in my town. They are even more common than Pidgeys, Rattatas and Zubats

Same. Everytime i open the app on campus 2 drowzee spawn
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
September 24 2016 21:18 GMT
#1876
I use Drowzees as the 3rd type to hoard for mass evolves. I think I have 500 Drowzee candies right now.

If you live in an area with a lot of Universities (I think that's the trigger for them) they're *everywhere*.

They seem to crowd out other potential spawns really so it's a bit problematic. As in you don't often get things like Clefairies, Venonats, Nidorans, Caterpies, or Weedles, It's just Drowzees everywhere.
Logo
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
September 24 2016 21:34 GMT
#1877
hypno is one of my last three i need to get 142/142. sigh.
Necro)Phagist(
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada6644 Posts
September 25 2016 02:24 GMT
#1878
On September 25 2016 06:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
hypno is one of my last three i need to get 142/142. sigh.

My city is 80% Drowzees. I have so many fucking useless Hypnos...

Trade you a Hypno for a Dragonnite lol.
"Are you talking to me? Because your authority is not recognized in fort kick ass!"" ||Park Jung Suk|| |MC|HerO|HyuN|
WindWolf
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Sweden11767 Posts
September 25 2016 02:49 GMT
#1879
On September 25 2016 06:18 Logo wrote:
I use Drowzees as the 3rd type to hoard for mass evolves. I think I have 500 Drowzee candies right now.

If you live in an area with a lot of Universities (I think that's the trigger for them) they're *everywhere*.

They seem to crowd out other potential spawns really so it's a bit problematic. As in you don't often get things like Clefairies, Venonats, Nidorans, Caterpies, or Weedles, It's just Drowzees everywhere.

Except that the town where I live is not a university town (it is a suburb to one though) and Drowzees are still really common. There are still a healthy mix of other Pokémons though
EZ4ENCE
Assault_1
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada1950 Posts
September 25 2016 02:50 GMT
#1880
I just moved to San Jose, California.. so far finding lots of flareons, growliths, pikachus, vulpix and ekans.
Prev 1 92 93 94 95 96 200 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 564
Hui .219
SC2_NightMare 28
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 1982
Larva 340
Hyun 204
Leta 124
ToSsGirL 72
Shine 20
yabsab 6
Dota 2
XcaliburYe336
NeuroSwarm123
League of Legends
JimRising 592
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K984
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King46
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor159
Other Games
tarik_tv10681
summit1g4290
Happy52
Trikslyr19
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick926
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 34
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota289
League of Legends
• Stunt375
Upcoming Events
Online Event
3h 12m
SC Evo League
4h 12m
Online Event
5h 12m
OSC
5h 12m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
7h 12m
CSO Contender
9h 12m
[BSL 2025] Weekly
10h 12m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 2h
WardiTV Summer Champion…
1d 3h
SC Evo League
1d 4h
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 7h
BSL Team Wars
1d 11h
Team Dewalt vs Team Bonyth
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Sharp vs Ample
Larva vs Stork
Wardi Open
2 days
RotterdaM Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
JyJ vs TY
Bisu vs Speed
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Mini vs TBD
Soma vs sSak
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-08-13
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLAN 3
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.