|
But I've been saying all along that all of the major grass contenders do better than Vaporeon vs a water type (maybe Vileplume is close). So if I'm using a weaker than Venusaur grass pokemon and still finding that to be true I don't see how whether or not I have a Venusaur to be relevant. Sure I used Venusaur in examples, but nothing I said has to apply specifically to Venusaur given how close the others are in stats.
Anyways we can quickly look at Solar Beam vs Hydro Pump since you don't want to for some reason... Assuming level 30 100% IVs...
Formula is Floor(½*Power*(Attack/Defense)*STAB∗Effectiveness)+1.
Hydro Pump vs a Vaporeon will do 50 damage (13.1 DPS)
Solar Beam (Venusaur) vs a Vaporeon will do 105 damage. (21.8 DPS)
So Solar Beam does 210% the damage and 160% of the DPS that Hydro Pump Does. But DPS for charge moves isn't a great metric really (since their true DPS depends on the energy generation rate).
So lets simulate a battle...
Assuming 2 attacks a cycle for Vine whip and 3 attacks/cycle for Water Gun. Both need 15 attacks to charge their move. We'll pit them against a 402 hp Vaporeon defender (which is what a 100% IV level 30 Vaporeon will have when its hp is doubled. We could use 422 as well, somewhere one of us seems to have used the wrong number though, probably me)
Vaporeon will get Hydro Pump in 5 cycles having dealt 60 damage (total damage 110)
Venusaur will get Solar Beam in 7.5 cycles after dealing 90 damage after Solar Beam (total damage 205)
So the 2nd Solar Beam + two attacks will kill Vaporeon instantly.
For Vaporeon you have to use 3 hydro pumps (330 damage) and then you have to deal an additional 72 damage (18 regular attacks or 15 + charge, but that's a waste of charge) which is another 6 cycles. So that's 21 cycles total.
But a kicker there is that you're also able to spike down Vaporeon with the second Solar Beam (just attack a bit extra before using it) which makes it pretty likely that you avoid at least one additional special attack.
Due to energy from hp loss the Venusaur 'denies' 52ish energy to the Vaporeon by spiking it down from 105 hp which is worth 1/2 a hydro pump or 2 water pulses. The Vaporeon is grinding out the enemy with regular attacks (or wasting energy generation opportunity) giving the enemy maximal chance to use more specials.
Anyways the point being when you do out something closer to the actual math and numbers you can see how there's a pretty significant difference in the way that the fight plays out. If you want to improve on it you can factor in the charge move time to the # of cycles (overall the Venusaur should spend less overall time executing charge moves, but more time per move). The other big difference is here our Vaporeon finishes the battle with 100% charge which is useful if there's an additional battle to follow and that could be somewhat accounted for (i.e will Vaporeon be slower to kill a single enemy Vaporeon, but faster to kill 2). That's getting a bit goofy though; you'll probably never see 2 identical vaporeons back to back so you can't really properly crunch numbers.
Though I'd say that's a good part of efficient gym battling... If you have a weaker Vaporeon followed by an Arcanine it's worth considering the possibility of using your own vaporeon to charge up a charge move to unleash immediately on the arcanine.
EDIT:
I also, obviously, didn't put in the damage each pokemon takes. Which is kind of an important omission. Lets assume the minimum possible damage taken (15 or 16 for Venusaur, 17 or 18 for Vaporeon) from quick attacks.
We can then maybe factor in the total energy the enemy mon has to work with which would be...
(hp - dmg of last attack) / 2 + (7 * # of attacks landed as estimated by # of cycles it takes to defeat the vaporeon). Though there's some general inaccuracy here, but I think it's close enough.
Vensaur would face up against: ~250 energy.
Vaporeon would face up against: ~339 energy.
We know a Hydro Pump in this case is ~50 damage (using it vs Vaporeon or Venusaur is about the same). At 25% that should be a difference of 12 hp of damage. So the Vaporeon should be taking something like an additional 20 damage compared to Venusaur taking something like 40.
Anyways there's all sorts of things to factor in and to figure out what criteria we are judging against but I was curious how well the raw damage worked out.
|
So 21 cycles for Vaporeon vs 16 for Venusaur right?
Now just calculate how much damage they both take and what HP they're left with %-wise and we can get to the point I've tried to make all along 
But it's weekend, I'll be back on Monday.
|
Well you can't easily because of the variance in special move usage by the AI, but it should be something like 40 dmg for Venusaur vs 60 which results in both of them being at about 70% hp against Hydro Pump if the enemy uses all of their energy for specials. The other specials would be harder to predict. For example Vaporeon would have around just enough energy for 5 Aqua Tails vs a Venusaur, but it would have to use the last one very close to when it dies.
|
Question. Why are potions a thing people care about conserving? I get them at about the same rate as balls.
|
On September 24 2016 04:32 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Question. Why are potions a thing people care about conserving? I get them at about the same rate as balls.
some people like to fight/prestige a lot. especially important in highly contested cities. like those shit heads who took down my level 10 gym, put up their own next to it and forced me to kick their ass back to the stone age while prestiging up my own.
|
It's quite painful to be one fight from getting a slot in a gym and not have the potions/healthy pokemon to get there.
|
One thing I'm curious about... are people leaving their pokemon injured while they go from one place to the other or topping everyone back off after a fight?
I always try to have as many injured pokemon on hand as I can (as in fight with all the good ones rather than just the same 3-6 again and again) so I can leave them injured and heal them up with potions that I'd otherwise be throwing out for bag space anyways.
|
On September 24 2016 05:18 Logo wrote:
One thing I'm curious about... are people leaving their pokemon injured while they go from one place to the other or topping everyone back off after a fight?
I always try to have as many injured pokemon on hand as I can (as in fight with all the good ones rather than just the same 3-6 again and again) so I can leave them injured and heal them up with potions that I'd otherwise be throwing out for bag space anyways.
i have so many max potions that i use them to heal 10 pts. my area is not highly contested so i dont get to fight all that much. the statement above i made about protecting my territory happens like once in a blue moon, and its quite exciting. i am not sure if i prefer the coins or the fights....
|
On September 24 2016 05:28 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 05:18 Logo wrote:
One thing I'm curious about... are people leaving their pokemon injured while they go from one place to the other or topping everyone back off after a fight?
I always try to have as many injured pokemon on hand as I can (as in fight with all the good ones rather than just the same 3-6 again and again) so I can leave them injured and heal them up with potions that I'd otherwise be throwing out for bag space anyways. i have so many max potions that i use them to heal 10 pts. my area is not highly contested so i dont get to fight all that much. the statement above i made about protecting my territory happens like once in a blue moon, and its quite exciting. i am not sure if i prefer the coins or the fights....
I have mostly the opposite where everything here is so highly contested that a lot of the gyms are just level 3, 4 or 5 because there's no stability to be had by training them up.
|
I moved to San Jose today and found a lot of Ekans in my area, then I look at the gyms around me and sure enough they all had Arboks defending them -_-
|
Suddenly having crazy drowzee spawns looks good! lol
So im curious. Is the "downtown" areas of every city just a giant clefairy zone? I almost ever see them on any map in residential areas
|
So the latest update shows the location where you caught the Pokemon. So basically all the Pokemon you catch in Singapore will show "Singapore, , Singapore". How useful lol
|
anyone else have their local police using pokemon scanners to catch bad drivers racing to catch pokemon as well? hahaha
|
On September 24 2016 14:58 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Suddenly having crazy drowzee spawns looks good! lol
So im curious. Is the "downtown" areas of every city just a giant clefairy zone? I almost ever see them on any map in residential areas
I swear, Drowzees are super-common in my town. They are even more common than Pidgeys, Rattatas and Zubats
|
On September 24 2016 18:43 WindWolf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2016 14:58 Orcasgt24 wrote:
Suddenly having crazy drowzee spawns looks good! lol
So im curious. Is the "downtown" areas of every city just a giant clefairy zone? I almost ever see them on any map in residential areas I swear, Drowzees are super-common in my town. They are even more common than Pidgeys, Rattatas and Zubats
Same. Everytime i open the app on campus 2 drowzee spawn
|
I use Drowzees as the 3rd type to hoard for mass evolves. I think I have 500 Drowzee candies right now.
If you live in an area with a lot of Universities (I think that's the trigger for them) they're *everywhere*.
They seem to crowd out other potential spawns really so it's a bit problematic. As in you don't often get things like Clefairies, Venonats, Nidorans, Caterpies, or Weedles, It's just Drowzees everywhere.
|
hypno is one of my last three i need to get 142/142. sigh.
|
On September 25 2016 06:34 dAPhREAk wrote:
hypno is one of my last three i need to get 142/142. sigh.
My city is 80% Drowzees. I have so many fucking useless Hypnos...
Trade you a Hypno for a Dragonnite lol.
|
On September 25 2016 06:18 Logo wrote:
I use Drowzees as the 3rd type to hoard for mass evolves. I think I have 500 Drowzee candies right now.
If you live in an area with a lot of Universities (I think that's the trigger for them) they're *everywhere*.
They seem to crowd out other potential spawns really so it's a bit problematic. As in you don't often get things like Clefairies, Venonats, Nidorans, Caterpies, or Weedles, It's just Drowzees everywhere.
Except that the town where I live is not a university town (it is a suburb to one though) and Drowzees are still really common. There are still a healthy mix of other Pokémons though
|
I just moved to San Jose, California.. so far finding lots of flareons, growliths, pikachus, vulpix and ekans.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
