|
On November 18 2015 22:30 Disregard wrote:
Wonder why BS did that? Did they figure that many players are "TLDR" types and decided to paraphrase everything?
Tell Tale does the same thing with their games. In their case, the responses are voiced. So people don’t want to read and then listen to the same thing they read. It makes dialogue between characters less enjoyable for the user. I don’t know why they would do it for Fall Out unless the main character is voiced through the entire game.
|
On November 18 2015 22:30 Disregard wrote:
Wonder why BS did that? Did they figure that many players are "TLDR" types and decided to paraphrase everything?
Because Bioware did that in Mass Effect and people loved it.
|
I mean the problem is that the dialogues are so obvious
you press down for super good guy
left for kinda good / sarchastic
right for bad
up for question
you want to be the good guy ? dont think ! just press down all the time, for every single person in the game
|
It doesn't make much sense to read something, only to have it parroted back to you.
If you can paraphrase it properly then it's a good time saver, personally I don't want to read everything before I say it, I want to pick the direction then have my character play it out. I actually find it a bit more realistic too, I don't plan everything I want to say out, I pick a direction and the words just come out, not always how I intended. Conversation isn't often powered by rational decision making in the real world, which is why when we find ourselves in situations when clarity and tone are important, in something like a speech, we practice so we don't meander off into incoherence.
I haven't played the game yet, and won't for a while, but my understanding is that the complaints aren't necessarily about it being paraphrased, more that its badly paraphrased, using too few words or lone adverbs like 'sarcastic' which don't properly communicate the intent or direction the conversation will take.
That mod sounds like a reasonable band-aid but I'd prefer even more if someone could properly paraphrase everything instead if its particularly dialogue heavy, if your character rarely says more than a line or two then its much of a muchness I suppose.
|
On November 19 2015 00:11 adwodon wrote:
It doesn't make much sense to read something, only to have it parroted back to you.
If you can paraphrase it properly then it's a good time saver, personally I don't want to read everything before I say it, I want to pick the direction then have my character play it out. I actually find it a bit more realistic too, I don't plan everything I want to say out, I pick a direction and the words just come out, not always how I intended. Conversation isn't often powered by rational decision making in the real world, which is why when we find ourselves in situations when clarity and tone are important, in something like a speech, we practice so we don't meander off into incoherence.
I haven't played the game yet, and won't for a while, but my understanding is that the complaints aren't necessarily about it being paraphrased, more that its badly paraphrased, using too few words or lone adverbs like 'sarcastic' which don't properly communicate the intent or direction the conversation will take.
That mod sounds like a reasonable band-aid but I'd prefer even more if someone could properly paraphrase everything instead if its particularly dialogue heavy, if your character rarely says more than a line or two then its much of a muchness I suppose.
I personally would like all the text and being able to fast forward anything. If I like the voice actor and the scene merits it then I might listen. Most of the time it is just a time waster.
|
Other than a single game crash and bad ai pathing, I have not had anything bad come up with FO4. I have played all the others, and this one is just as fun to me. I agree that the dialogue is really bare bones, but every other aspect of the game is really fun TO ME. I'm surprised at how many detractors there are. Is it the best game ever? No way. The character models and animations aren't even of ps3 caliber imo, but the gameplay makes up for it.
|
On November 19 2015 00:11 adwodon wrote:
It doesn't make much sense to read something, only to have it parroted back to you.
If you can paraphrase it properly then it's a good time saver, personally I don't want to read everything before I say it, I want to pick the direction then have my character play it out. I actually find it a bit more realistic too, I don't plan everything I want to say out, I pick a direction and the words just come out, not always how I intended. Conversation isn't often powered by rational decision making in the real world, which is why when we find ourselves in situations when clarity and tone are important, in something like a speech, we practice so we don't meander off into incoherence.
I haven't played the game yet, and won't for a while, but my understanding is that the complaints aren't necessarily about it being paraphrased, more that its badly paraphrased, using too few words or lone adverbs like 'sarcastic' which don't properly communicate the intent or direction the conversation will take.
That mod sounds like a reasonable band-aid but I'd prefer even more if someone could properly paraphrase everything instead if its particularly dialogue heavy, if your character rarely says more than a line or two then its much of a muchness I suppose.
What if a situation arises where you cannot react to it as 4 ways(yes/no/info/sarc), instead you can beg/beg_more/cry/lie/intimidate/lick_ass/proudly_die ?
There are more ways to help people to run a conversation without reading walls of text(and playing RPG for some unknown reason) like coloring the response and/or intelligently chose words etc.. Wheeled dialogue is hands down bad.
|
On November 18 2015 09:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 05:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Fallout 4 is on fire breaking records and even parts of the Internet. Todd Howard, Fallout 4 game director, continues to fan those flames, teasing a post-launch expansion pack.
Surpassing previous sales records and even causing drastic drops in traffic to popular adult video websites, Fallout 4 will no doubt continue to make waves with its first upcoming downloadable content (DLC), which has many gamers eagerly anticipating its release early next year.
Because the game was just launched, Bethesda wants players to explore Fallout 4's expansive Commonwealth first before its developers finalize what gets included in the game's expansion packs. For Fallout 4, Bethesda is taking on a different approach in its development of the game's DLCs. The company will consider feedback from the game's players and will be monitoring what players like and dislike so it can shape future updates and content for DLCs all based on what the fans want.
"Because what they bring to it is really important[,] we're going to see what people like, what they want more of, what they want different, and we're going to do that," Howard said of fans, adding, "Our fans are amazing; they're super-smart. This is important to them, just like it is to us."
On the flip side, however, some players are doubting Bethesda's strategy with Fallout 4's DLCs. The company already received flak for taking preorders for the game's DLCs even though there haven't been any concrete plans on what kind of gameplay the expansion packs would even include. Now divergent members of the Fallout 4 community suspect they will be treated as guinea pigs for bugs, glitches and content gaps. Source I wish they would work on fixing the game first before DLC's.
You act like the two things are mutually exclusive. I thought we had already established that a lot of the time the DLC is made after the game has gone gold or while it is in QA, when the actual developers have very little to do. Unless you think that Bethesda's people are all amorphous blobs who are capable of design, programming, art and testing simultaneously?
|
Obviously Bethesda IS comprised of amorphous blobs of unlimited competency. Don't be silly.
|
On November 19 2015 00:11 adwodon wrote:
It doesn't make much sense to read something, only to have it parroted back to you.
If you can paraphrase it properly then it's a good time saver, personally I don't want to read everything before I say it, I want to pick the direction then have my character play it out. I actually find it a bit more realistic too, I don't plan everything I want to say out, I pick a direction and the words just come out, not always how I intended. Conversation isn't often powered by rational decision making in the real world, which is why when we find ourselves in situations when clarity and tone are important, in something like a speech, we practice so we don't meander off into incoherence.
I haven't played the game yet, and won't for a while, but my understanding is that the complaints aren't necessarily about it being paraphrased, more that its badly paraphrased, using too few words or lone adverbs like 'sarcastic' which don't properly communicate the intent or direction the conversation will take.
That mod sounds like a reasonable band-aid but I'd prefer even more if someone could properly paraphrase everything instead if its particularly dialogue heavy, if your character rarely says more than a line or two then its much of a muchness I suppose.
This would only make sense if the full sentence you said would than be different based on your character's Charisma or Speech skill (ups that was removed from Fo4... ).
|
On November 18 2015 23:25 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 22:30 Disregard wrote:
Wonder why BS did that? Did they figure that many players are "TLDR" types and decided to paraphrase everything? Because Bioware did that in Mass Effect and people loved it.
In ME, though, you could generally tell what your character was going to say based on the prompts. There was only one instance where I was surprised by the outcome. Deus Ex: HR did a system similar to F4's where the prompts were more based on the general tone (e.g. "threaten" or "flirt" but mousing over an option would show you the full text.
The mod at hand seems like a reasonable solution for now.
|
On November 18 2015 00:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 00:45 OsaX Nymloth wrote:On November 17 2015 21:18 bertolo wrote:
Haters gonna hate. I think the people that thrash on these games just don't enjoy the general game play and wish it was something else. Imagine Activision buying Starcraft brand from Blizzard and creating a turn-based, ultra-simplified mobile cash-grabber. It's ultra popular, but it's not anywhere close around what it has been. So yeah, hate on bitchsoft is justified. Enjoy the game that is actually totally not Fallout and enjoy giving more moneys to beth - that will assure them than no matter how bad/buggy their game is gonna be, it's gonna sell like crazy and have 90+ metacritic score. Sad. Your opinion is justified. Whether or not people are super pumped to hear about it is the real question.
He at least have a fucking oppinion about something instead of trying to post in a semi omnipotent neutral way of NOTHING like you do for a fuckign 15k+ time. Holy shit grow something finally.
|
On November 19 2015 01:58 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 09:11 wei2coolman wrote:On November 18 2015 05:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Fallout 4 is on fire breaking records and even parts of the Internet. Todd Howard, Fallout 4 game director, continues to fan those flames, teasing a post-launch expansion pack.
Surpassing previous sales records and even causing drastic drops in traffic to popular adult video websites, Fallout 4 will no doubt continue to make waves with its first upcoming downloadable content (DLC), which has many gamers eagerly anticipating its release early next year.
Because the game was just launched, Bethesda wants players to explore Fallout 4's expansive Commonwealth first before its developers finalize what gets included in the game's expansion packs. For Fallout 4, Bethesda is taking on a different approach in its development of the game's DLCs. The company will consider feedback from the game's players and will be monitoring what players like and dislike so it can shape future updates and content for DLCs all based on what the fans want.
"Because what they bring to it is really important[,] we're going to see what people like, what they want more of, what they want different, and we're going to do that," Howard said of fans, adding, "Our fans are amazing; they're super-smart. This is important to them, just like it is to us."
On the flip side, however, some players are doubting Bethesda's strategy with Fallout 4's DLCs. The company already received flak for taking preorders for the game's DLCs even though there haven't been any concrete plans on what kind of gameplay the expansion packs would even include. Now divergent members of the Fallout 4 community suspect they will be treated as guinea pigs for bugs, glitches and content gaps. Source I wish they would work on fixing the game first before DLC's. You act like the two things are mutually exclusive. I thought we had already established that a lot of the time the DLC is made after the game has gone gold or while it is in QA, when the actual developers have very little to do. Unless you think that Bethesda's people are all amorphous blobs who are capable of design, programming, art and testing simultaneously?
If I assumed that, then Fallout 4 wouldn't of been released in its current state.
On the topic of dialog wheel, I much prefer full text responses to choose from. They tend to have a lot more subtleties, while I'm not entirely sure if decision trees are overall effected by the use of dialog wheel mechanics; it really ruins the flow of the game.
|
On November 19 2015 06:05 Narw wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 00:49 Plansix wrote:On November 18 2015 00:45 OsaX Nymloth wrote:On November 17 2015 21:18 bertolo wrote:
Haters gonna hate. I think the people that thrash on these games just don't enjoy the general game play and wish it was something else. Imagine Activision buying Starcraft brand from Blizzard and creating a turn-based, ultra-simplified mobile cash-grabber. It's ultra popular, but it's not anywhere close around what it has been. So yeah, hate on bitchsoft is justified. Enjoy the game that is actually totally not Fallout and enjoy giving more moneys to beth - that will assure them than no matter how bad/buggy their game is gonna be, it's gonna sell like crazy and have 90+ metacritic score. Sad. Your opinion is justified. Whether or not people are super pumped to hear about it is the real question. He at least have a fucking oppinion about something instead of trying to post in a semi omnipotent neutral way of NOTHING like you do for a fuckign 15k+ time. Holy shit grow something finally.
I have said several times that I'm very excited to own Fallout and I am excited to play it, bugs and flaws in all. But I won't get it until after Christmas.
|
On November 18 2015 23:25 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 22:30 Disregard wrote:
Wonder why BS did that? Did they figure that many players are "TLDR" types and decided to paraphrase everything? Because Bioware did that in Mass Effect and people loved it.
well the system is nice ... I just wish there would be a way to preview what you are about to say. I mean they are consistent press this button to be the good guy. But I had lines I would have not picked if I knew it would have been that.
But having your character voiced is an immersion killer anyway. I am working on modding it out already heh. I mean it does work perfectly for Mass Effect, but thats because you are more of a ghost following the protagonist, not the protagonist itself.
The best thing about the Fallout dialog system is that you can still interact which is awesome. Next thing would be have npcs react to what you do though. Not caring that I move up close and pull a shotgun is probably not something an npc should ignore.
|
Bioware's not really a standard to go by for the dialogue wheel though because they kind of used it as an excuse to be lazy in ME, i.e. they have 2 prompts that lead you to the exact same dialogue and 99% of players don't notice because they don't reload/replay to see where different decisions lead. This is actually annoyingly frequent in ME1 and one of the biggest overlooked flaws of the game.
|
On November 18 2015 18:37 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2015 12:48 RagequitBM wrote:Idk maybe I'm just too young, but I went back to play FO 1 and 2 to get hyped up for fo4, and didn't really like them. They were just way too slow paced. I'd rather just read a novel. I guess I'm just a sub-human for liking FO 4 more than the older ones  Fo1 and Fo2 have bad user interface and many strange quirks. And yes, turn based combat is not fun to everyone. When people praise them it is not because of these things, it because of its quest structure and writing. It is a dark world, full of shitty people, the world makes more sense than in Fo3+ and quest are often solvable in multiple ways and there is real choice and consequence. Also if you put your character to 1 Int he gets a whole different set of conversation options which are usually different versions of grunts and some different quests. He cannot finish some other quests. NPCs are simulated to be more like real world people that get offended by what you say and do and you can fail quests because of that. You can play a real bastard character if you want. You can be a slaver, a child killer, a grave robber and so on. You can finish the game without killing anyone, get married, divorced, become a porn star, a best boxer or a martial arts champion. You can manipulate gangs to kill each other and many other cool things. And many, many other RPG options. It was also first game that allowed that kind of gameplay, and it has yet not been surpassed by any other game series. When people get mad at Fo3 and Fo4 it is because they don't JUST want FPS gameplay with some minecraft building, some sims minigames and endless stream of kill/fetch quests where conversation options are yes/no/sarcasm/more info. They want all that good stuff that games 20 years before had, WE expected games to evolve. I don't mind 3d, open world, exploring and all that, I mind that the game was made worse in all the RPG elements that made it the awesome cult game it is still today. All we wanted is that new Fallout games kept the core and then added all the stuf Bethesda added. But Bethesda cut off what made it Fallout and just added superfluous stuff, making this something completely different and subpar. So while Fallout 3+ are now different games basically and cater to different market, I hope this above text explains why are Fo1/2 fans so angry/disappointed.
Fallout 2's plot is inconsistent and incoherent. Even the actual original creator of the universe Tim Cain has stated this on record.
Given that you left Interplay midway through Fallout 2's development, how did the resulting game differ from the original design you had in mind for it?
I don't remember the specific details of my plans for Fallout 2, but I do remember playing the game and seeing it was different from the storyline I had proposed for it. I think my biggest disappointment with the game is that each area was made in almost complete isolation from the others. There was no over-arching theme and no attempt to make sure the different areas were cohesive. It felt like a lot of Fallout-y areas, placed adjacently and connected with a storyline. Those areas were individually well-done, but they suffered from the lack of a strong central design.
This idea that Fallout 2 is the greatest thing since sliced butter is hilarious. Fallout 1 definitely is the strongest of the games because of the well written plot line and overall cohesion of story and gameplay, but this silly idea that Fallout 2 is so great is beyond funny, especially when it got railroaded by alot of reviews for not advancing from Fallout 1. There was alot of uproar if you look up usenet posts over Fallout 2, and for very good reasons too. So please, stop with the nostalgia.
|
On November 18 2015 13:03 TheYango wrote:
This is coming way too late, but I'm going to say no more of this "Fallout 4 is a bad Fallout game" discussion.
Discussion of bugs and gameplay issues is still legitimate, but this nostalgia dickwaving contest is going nowhere when everyone already knows where they stand. It was fine when there was nothing better to talk about, but I'd rather not read posters on both sides saying facepalm-y things when they could be talking about other things.
Reiterating myself.
Please do not continue this line of discussion.
|
On November 19 2015 09:14 TheYango wrote:
Bioware's not really a standard to go by for the dialogue wheel though because they kind of used it as an excuse to be lazy in ME, i.e. they have 2 prompts that lead you to the exact same dialogue and 99% of players don't notice because they don't reload/replay to see where different decisions lead. This is actually annoyingly frequent in ME1 and one of the biggest overlooked flaws of the game.
On November 19 2015 06:23 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2015 01:58 ZasZ. wrote:On November 18 2015 09:11 wei2coolman wrote:On November 18 2015 05:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Fallout 4 is on fire breaking records and even parts of the Internet. Todd Howard, Fallout 4 game director, continues to fan those flames, teasing a post-launch expansion pack.
Surpassing previous sales records and even causing drastic drops in traffic to popular adult video websites, Fallout 4 will no doubt continue to make waves with its first upcoming downloadable content (DLC), which has many gamers eagerly anticipating its release early next year.
Because the game was just launched, Bethesda wants players to explore Fallout 4's expansive Commonwealth first before its developers finalize what gets included in the game's expansion packs. For Fallout 4, Bethesda is taking on a different approach in its development of the game's DLCs. The company will consider feedback from the game's players and will be monitoring what players like and dislike so it can shape future updates and content for DLCs all based on what the fans want.
"Because what they bring to it is really important[,] we're going to see what people like, what they want more of, what they want different, and we're going to do that," Howard said of fans, adding, "Our fans are amazing; they're super-smart. This is important to them, just like it is to us."
On the flip side, however, some players are doubting Bethesda's strategy with Fallout 4's DLCs. The company already received flak for taking preorders for the game's DLCs even though there haven't been any concrete plans on what kind of gameplay the expansion packs would even include. Now divergent members of the Fallout 4 community suspect they will be treated as guinea pigs for bugs, glitches and content gaps. Source I wish they would work on fixing the game first before DLC's. You act like the two things are mutually exclusive. I thought we had already established that a lot of the time the DLC is made after the game has gone gold or while it is in QA, when the actual developers have very little to do. Unless you think that Bethesda's people are all amorphous blobs who are capable of design, programming, art and testing simultaneously? If I assumed that, then Fallout 4 wouldn't of been released in its current state. On the topic of dialog wheel, I much prefer full text responses to choose from. They tend to have a lot more subtleties, while I'm not entirely sure if decision trees are overall effected by the use of dialog wheel mechanics; dialogue wheel really ruins the flow of the game.
The same could be said about full text decisions though; the underlying mechanics behind them is usually hidden to the player unless they do multiple playthroughs.
I just prefer being able to have more information before making a decision; vague descriptions just sucks. I'm pretty sure though they did dialogue wheel to cater to console players; who are probably not as invested into lore and stuff as the PC player counterparts.
|
Does anyone know why my water purifiers aren't depositing any water in my workbench? They're all powered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
