|
On October 05 2017 05:42 Nezgar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 03:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 03:07 Nezgar wrote:On October 04 2017 20:05 B.I.G. wrote:
Whats your late game all-round dark elf doomstack composition for you guys? I usually did 4 shards, 4 executioners, 4 halberd guys, 2 bolt throwers, 1 dragon and/or 1 hydra and then 2 cavalry of whatever sort. I found Executioners lacking in comparison to Black Guards, especially with the prevalence of big beasts in almost every late game army. Black Guards deal more than 150% damage against beasts and are immune to terror and fear - something that pretty much all beasts cause. Depending on what kind of goal the army was supposed to have, I usually ended up with 6-8 Black Guards, at least 4 Shades, 2-4 Bolt Throwers and the rest Hydras or Black Dragons. Shades seem to be the most reliable answer to a lot of big beasts as long as you have something to tie those up in melee while the Shades focus them down. You can upgrade them to almost comical levels in the campaign and they become available very early on. Replacing Shards with Shades is one of the first things I do. DE cavalry has the huge problem of not being able to disengage whenever they want to because of the rampage mechanic, which made them completely unusable to me. Yeah, I agree that cold one Dark Elf cavalry is almost unusable because of the rampage mechanic. I also agree that executioners are somewhat lackluster compared to black guards. I see your point about shades, but I think that dark shards with shields are excellent as well and a good place to cut costs. In particular, the dark shards with shields are really good for offensive siege battles where they'll need to block ranged fire. Hydras are, hands down, the best unit that the Dark Elves have. They can fight damned near everything, they are fairly quick, and their regen is ridiculous. I think they are far more useful than black dragons most of the time. You should have 4 hydras in your late game armies. The only thing that black dragons are nice for is helping to clear walls during siege battles, but I think that dark shards with shields do a good enough job of that. I think you can pass on the reaper bolt throwers. They don't quite do enough to merit bringing them along. Lastly, you need the bright sorceress. Fire spells are too damned good to leave out (unless you have Malekith, at which point you'd be better off with a death hag). So a late game Dark Elf army should be something like 8x black guards, 6x dark shards with shields (or shades, if you prefer), 4x hydras, and a bright sorceress. You'll be able to handle pretty much anything with that comp. I just have a fetish for artillery, I guess... It feels empty without having at least 2 Bolt Throwers. But I agree about most other things. I guess it really depends on what you use those doomstacks for. For defending during the later rituals, I prefer Shades + Black Dragons because dragons can fight on top of walls, although even then it's usually 2 Dragons and 2 Hydras. I found Dark Shards to be too vulnerable to late game HE stacks.
Yeah, I like artillery, too, but Dark Elf artillery isn't human or dwarf artillery. Good thing, too, because the rest of their shit is pretty strong.
For defending siege battles, I think that it is often better to cede the walls to the attacker. It's never bad to keep some ranged units on the walls to start and have some melee up there to hold the towers, but I find that I do a lot more damage when I pull my ranged units back and fire into the flanks of melee attackers that climb onto the walls via ladders or towers. Gunpowder units are extremely good when used this way.
|
TWW1 question: From your experience is it better to specialize in ranged or melee for Orion?
|
Holy Shit, Lizardmen are so strong. All you really need are 3 heroes riding Dinosaurs. I just run into any army with Kroq'gar and his crew, buff them with lore of the beast and they just tear through everything, even a fullstack of elite units (on legendary!). Its so crazy
|
On October 05 2017 22:48 TerransHill wrote:
Holy Shit, Lizardmen are so strong. All you really need are 3 heroes riding Dinosaurs. I just run into any army with Kroq'gar and his crew, buff them with lore of the beast and they just tear through everything, even a fullstack of elite units (on legendary!). Its so crazy
get mazamundi and three regen dinos and you can reliably keep up an army from taking serious damage during a fight. with dinos disrupting formations the enemy can't hold off anything and your superior melee just swamps them. Its pretty wicked with an end game army.
|
I confederated a level 30 Mazdamundi in my Kroq-Gar campaign as the Dark Elves were rolling over his domain.
Dude had literally zero spells with skill points in 'em. I flipped the desk.
|
Whats your opinion on those hybrid lords for dark evles and high elves (ranged + melee)? I just don't know why I would have a lord just sitting back and shoot arrows, so I don't know why I would use them.
|
On October 06 2017 05:01 TerransHill wrote:
Whats your opinion on those hybrid lords for dark evles and high elves (ranged + melee)? I just don't know why I would have a lord just sitting back and shoot arrows, so I don't know why I would use them.
(For High Elves)
If you take the Hybrid its for the buffs to shooting, not to shoot with the lord itself. They are almost as good in melee anyway, just annoying to have to force melee attack
|
I like the Princess since she performs better when microed. And well I like Lothern Seaguards.
Instead of Rally they get a aoe buff for ranged attacks. So choice of Lord depends on what army you want.
I got an 60 Influence Princess with sweet buffs to ranged. Was super fun to needle pouch armies. Sadly I didnt know that Skaven can ambush by default. So I force marshed her near a settlement just to have her slowly be grinded down by skaven ambushers. Managed to defend 4 armies. 5th army got messy and 6th finished the job.
Tried Lizardmen just to see how their autoresolve works. So unfair >:I
|
Yeah, I'm kinda bored with Lizardmen. Now that the workshop is out, I may go get a mod that unlocks one of the Empire factions and go full Cortez on the New World.
EDIT: Just grabbed a mod that unlocks all factions and makes them playable. I fired up a Sudenburg campaign. Looks like most of the Empire heroes are missing. No sorcerers, witchers, or warrior priests. Booo.... Looks like I need to wait for a new mod.
EDIT2: I take it back. It looks like I do get bright wizards at least.
|
Makes me wonder actually why the other factions are unavailable in WH2. Does that mean that when other races become available you install each race pack twice if you have WH1 and 2 installed? Seems a bit much..
|
So one thing that bothered me during my Dark Elf campaign was that dark shards seemed to underperform compared to handgunners despite having similar stats. At the time, I chalked it up to me being crazy or some change that CA must have made to ranged units. However, now that I am playing with handgunners in WH2, I'm see that they are no different performance-wise than in WH1. So what's the deal? Is there some mechanic that makes gunpowder units do more damage than comparable arrow units?
|
On October 06 2017 15:16 xDaunt wrote:
So one thing that bothered me during my Dark Elf campaign was that dark shards seemed to underperform compared to handgunners despite having similar stats. At the time, I chalked it up to me being crazy or some change that CA must have made to ranged units. However, now that I am playing with handgunners in WH2, I'm see that they are no different performance-wise than in WH1. So what's the deal? Is there some mechanic that makes gunpowder units do more damage than comparable arrow units?
Well dark shards can fire over your own units and don't need line of sight from what i understood, so if they really were as devastating as handgunners, they would completely wreck the game.
|
There is also an hidden accuracy stat in the game that has some effect together with different other factors like range, terrain etc.
|
I have basically reached the conclusion that the numbers don't really mean anything. You can't use them to compare units in any meaningful way. The only thing they might be useful at is to see what exactly an upgrade changes "Does more damage", or "more armor".
But the only way to see how good a unit actually is is to have it fight stuff. The numbers might as well say something like "Your damage is between red apple and green apricot, while that unit is more along the lines of purple pear. Your survivability is monkey trousers."
|
On October 06 2017 19:38 Simberto wrote:
I have basically reached the conclusion that the numbers don't really mean anything. You can't use them to compare units in any meaningful way. The only thing they might be useful at is to see what exactly an upgrade changes "Does more damage", or "more armor".
But the only way to see how good a unit actually is is to have it fight stuff. The numbers might as well say something like "Your damage is between red apple and green apricot, while that unit is more along the lines of purple pear. Your survivability is monkey trousers."
Get out scrub, everyone knows that pineapple is superior and will wreck your Honolulu-tie!
Though Melee Attack and Defence do give some indication who would win and the values can give at least some indicator. The enemy can’t kill you, if he can’t land an attack and such.
|
It was like that in Medieval 2 as well. Due to unique animation of certain weapons, the damage done, or the swing rate can be totally different depending on what that weapon is and what animation it is currently under. The most egregious example was that in Med2 some weapons couldn't hurt cavalry in combat due to problems with weapon animation not hitting the riders, and the super slow halberd animation that seemed to auto kill anything it hit whilst the normal animation did not and handgunners being as good as elite armoured swordsmen in combat in some circumstances due to their unique parry animation.
At least it is better than unpatched Rome 1 where 2 phalanx units will refuse to engage into each other, with the tips of the outmost ranks just touching each other and the men on the sides slowly bleeding into each other.
|
While we are at wonky unit behaviour, does anyone else have trouble using warpfirethrowers reliably (fire at will is on, skirmish is off)? They seem to behave random at times, they often refuse to fire through (wide) gaps in my line, but are perfectly fine shooting over your troops when directly behind them and there is enough distance for the warpfire to arc into the enemy. When bringing them to the flank they occasionally just don’t fire, despite fire at will is on and models being in clear sight. Sometimes one or more model of the warpfirethrowers will dance on the spot when this happens, at which point even manually attacking doesn’t do anything. Otherwise they often attack after an order just fine, but don’t do so on their own.
…Probably for balance reasons since these nasty rats wipe units in seconds due to their splash damage. I had one unit shoot into a pile of engaged line and getting 80 kills in about 30 seconds. A good number of skavenslaves where under those causalities, but that’s kind of needed for the warpfirethrower to feel right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
|
On October 06 2017 21:06 waffelz wrote:
While we are at wonky unit behaviour, does anyone else have trouble using warpfirethrowers reliably (fire at will is on, skirmish is off)? They seem to behave random at times, they often refuse to fire through (wide) gaps in my line, but are perfectly fine shooting over your troops when directly behind them and there is enough distance for the warpfire to arc into the enemy. When bringing them to the flank they occasionally just don’t fire, despite fire at will is on and models being in clear sight. Sometimes one or more model of the warpfirethrowers will dance on the spot when this happens, at which point even manually attacking doesn’t do anything. Otherwise they often attack after an order just fine, but don’t do so on their own.
…Probably for balance reasons since these nasty rats wipe units in seconds due to their splash damage. I had one unit shoot into a pile of engaged line and getting 80 kills in about 30 seconds. A good number of skavenslaves where under those causalities, but that’s kind of needed for the warpfirethrower to feel right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think this is a problem when your line is too wide. If some of the units at the very edge don't have a clear line of sight to the target, sometimes the entire unit doesn't fire.
Another thing you can try is hitting backspace to cancel any current orders and activate fire at will again. I sometimes have units who just stand there with like 5 enemy units in line of sight and my dudes still don't fire because they were locked onto the 6th enemy that was now engage with some infantry.
But then again, Wrapfirethrowers and a few other ranged units are somewhat unreliable in general and refuse to fire through no fault of your own.
|
I'm on turn 85 of Queek Headtaker's campaign and I can't decide whether or not to muster up my forces and conquer the islands off the coast where the Elves keep attacking from or to set my sights inland. Any suggestions? I sent a full stack to one of the islands around turn 50, won a battle but couldn't take the city since reinforcements showed up.
|
On October 07 2017 01:22 Meta wrote:
I'm on turn 85 of Queek Headtaker's campaign and I can't decide whether or not to muster up my forces and conquer the islands off the coast where the Elves keep attacking from or to set my sights inland. Any suggestions? I sent a full stack to one of the islands around turn 50, won a battle but couldn't take the city since reinforcements showed up.
My general strategic philosophy in TW games is to secure my flank first, and then work on expanding towards the larger objectives. There are a couple of reasons for this. First, and until the VERY late game when you own most everything, you are always going to be outnumbered and unable to defend all of your territory. Between bonuses given to the AI and seemingly higher maintenance costs, it's much harder in this game to mitigate the AI's numerical superiority than in the first game. Second, you're going to be at your most effective on offense when you can focus all of your resources on your objective. There's a big difference between being able to commit one stack to an offensive versus two stacks. So if I were you, I'd neutralize the island threat first, and then advance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
