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General Discussion - Page 85

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Please be advised:

We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable.

After that we will require new threads to discuss topics.

Questions should go in the stickied Q&A thread, screenshots and PotG will go in the PotG sticky, QQ/Rage/Complaints should go in the QQ/Rage thread. If you want to talk about maps or strategies open a new thread.

Any comments or concerns will be logged please forward them to ZeromuS. This new forum is still fluid so we will try this out. General TL rules will still apply to new threads.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2015 16:56 GMT
#1681
On November 10 2015 01:52 hariooo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2015 01:28 Plansix wrote:
On November 10 2015 01:26 hariooo wrote:
On November 09 2015 05:00 ref4 wrote:
On November 09 2015 03:48 lestye wrote:
On November 09 2015 02:11 Plansix wrote:
If you go as far back as the 80s the market is so small that anyone making games had to charge that much.

The market was smaller but it was a lot cheaper to make. You needs hundreds of people now and millions of more dollars.


I think a large portion of that $$ goes into marketing and (especially true for Blizzard) those hype cinematics.

There's a reason why the warcraft movie isn't 100% CGI because it'll probably cost a good 1 - 2 billion for an hour long product.


UHHHHH Warcraft 3 had almost 30 minutes of cinematics you think that cost Blizzard at least half a BILLION to make?

You are overestimating CGI costs by a couple orders of magnitude.

I don't think the cost of CGI cinematic from over 10 years ago are really applicable in this discussion.


I don't think a billion dollar quote for CGI merits discussion at all.

Yes, that is hyperbolic and a silly amount. But it would cost over $100 million, since Advent Children cost $135 million to make.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ref4
Profile Joined March 2012
2933 Posts
November 09 2015 17:36 GMT
#1682
On November 10 2015 01:56 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2015 01:52 hariooo wrote:
On November 10 2015 01:28 Plansix wrote:
On November 10 2015 01:26 hariooo wrote:
On November 09 2015 05:00 ref4 wrote:
On November 09 2015 03:48 lestye wrote:
On November 09 2015 02:11 Plansix wrote:
If you go as far back as the 80s the market is so small that anyone making games had to charge that much.

The market was smaller but it was a lot cheaper to make. You needs hundreds of people now and millions of more dollars.


I think a large portion of that $$ goes into marketing and (especially true for Blizzard) those hype cinematics.

There's a reason why the warcraft movie isn't 100% CGI because it'll probably cost a good 1 - 2 billion for an hour long product.


UHHHHH Warcraft 3 had almost 30 minutes of cinematics you think that cost Blizzard at least half a BILLION to make?

You are overestimating CGI costs by a couple orders of magnitude.

I don't think the cost of CGI cinematic from over 10 years ago are really applicable in this discussion.


I don't think a billion dollar quote for CGI merits discussion at all.

Yes, that is hyperbolic and a silly amount. But it would cost over $100 million, since Advent Children cost $135 million to make.


Advent Children was back in 2005, Avatar costs 240 million to make and had like another 100 - 150 million for promotion in 2009. So a good 2015 full CGI would probably be 200 - 400 million plus however much for promotion. I dono, half a billion sounds about right if you are talking about 60 minutes of Blizzard-caliber CGI cinematics (by that I mean the level you see for LoTV and Legion cinematic not Warcraft III back in 2002, obviously).
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
November 09 2015 20:07 GMT
#1683
Is.... Avatar not good CGI or something?

Like are we suggesting that Blizzard would produce more expensive CGI than anything Hollywood has ever done before?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2015 20:47 GMT
#1684
On November 10 2015 05:07 hariooo wrote:
Is.... Avatar not good CGI or something?

Like are we suggesting that Blizzard would produce more expensive CGI than anything Hollywood has ever done before?

Avatar cost between $280 million and $310 with another $150 in marketing. That getting pretty close to half a billion.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
November 09 2015 21:15 GMT
#1685
It was also 3 hours long with top-billing directors/actors. I just don't think anything that Blizzard would reasonably make could compare in scope.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2015 21:27 GMT
#1686
On November 10 2015 06:15 hariooo wrote:
It was also 3 hours long with top-billing directors/actors. I just don't think anything that Blizzard would reasonably make could compare in scope.

I think you are over estimating how much the pay of those actors/director influenced the cost of that movie. Even top paid actors don’t pull in more than 20 million on film and a lot of that is smoke an mirrors(look up how movies are funded and Return on the Jedi not being profitable to this day) They cost money, but do not make up the majority of production cost. Blizzard has spend about $100 on the warcraft movie.

Blockbuster movies cost bank, full CGI for otherwise.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
karazax
Profile Joined May 2010
United States3737 Posts
November 09 2015 21:39 GMT
#1687
The return of the Jedi not being profitable is more Hollywood accounting tricks than reality.


LucasFilm Tells Darth Vader that Return of the Jedi Hasn’t Made a Profit!?
Gross profit is what you get if you are a big enough actor or producer to demand this. You get a percentage of profit based on the gross of the film – how much it makes before any costs. Therefore, you are guaranteed to get paid since the studio can’t hide anything. Very few people can demand gross points. But if you have them and your film hits big, you make millions. In fact, this can be so profitable you will sometimes see big stars forgo any salary at all except union minimum just to get these points.

Unfortunately, Mr. Prowse relates what is almost universally the case with a net profit clause. Studios almost never pay on this clause, as they claim nearly any and every expense possible to keep the film from showing any actual profit. Very few films have ever shown a net profit on the books.

How do they do this? Well first, imagine that George Lucas decided to go to New York tomorrow to talk about showing Return of the Jedi in 3D. And he stayed at the Ritz Carlton, ordered sushi at 3 a.m. from room service and used the hotel phone to call Bahrain to make prank calls.

Well, 26 years after the release of the film, the accountants at Lucasfilm are going to charge $86,000 to the costs of Return of the Jedi. I am NOT joking. This is what they do. If George Lucas utters the words Star Wars and he’s spending money, they’re putting it on the red line for one of those films.

On the flipside, Mr. Prowse would be wise to use the FORCE, aka a lawyer, to get Lucasfilm to cough up. You see, as you can tell by the above, the accounting is utter bullshit. And on a film like Return of the Jedi, Lucasfilm would be extremely reluctant to open its books in open court. Extremely reluctant because of how incredibly embarrassed studios have been in the past when they have made the mistake of doing this. Plus, the ensuing publicity would be embarrassing to Lucasfilm. Can you imagine the hedlines if Darth Vader sued George Lucas?

In short, if you have net participation on a film that has grossed hundreds of millions, you may get some dough, but you’ll have to sue to get it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2015 21:45 GMT
#1688
I understand that, I just pointing that those accounting tricks also apply to actors getting paid 20 million dollar per film.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
hariooo
Profile Joined October 2013
Canada2830 Posts
November 09 2015 21:59 GMT
#1689
1. A top paid star getting $20 million is like 5-10% of what we're talking about here. How is that not significant?

2. If their salary is $20 million I'm not sure what you're talking about. The accounting practices they're talking about are the differences between gross and net income. Salaries are straight up expenses.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2015 22:14 GMT
#1690
No one got paid 20 million for Avatar. Upfront pay for actors isn't that much any more.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/movies/04stars.html?_r=0

They make more money is the movie is successful, unless they are playing Tony Stark in a Marvel movie.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11927 Posts
November 09 2015 22:22 GMT
#1691
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/budgets/all

Final Fantasy Spirit Within is the only fully animated movie that went for realism that I know of, it was made 2001 and nobody tried after that flopped (as far as I know). It cost less than $150 million for 106 min. That level of quality would cost less now a days due to cheaper computer calculations and improved software.

Yes it is very expensive but why are we in the overwatch thread?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 09 2015 22:28 GMT
#1692
Someone claimed WC3 cinematic were long and therefore the WC movie wouldn't cost a lot if it was all CGI. People then pointed out that most CGI heavy movies cost half a billion to make and market.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
November 09 2015 22:33 GMT
#1693
I liked Final Fantasy Spirit Within alot T.T . Also like how they do the warcraft movie, adds to the two worlds collide theme Imo ... but I guess normal person won't care. But yeah too off topic.
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
November 10 2015 00:57 GMT
#1694
so reaper and mccree are pretty strong right now, i'm expecting them to get toned down a bit
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8910 Posts
November 10 2015 01:45 GMT
#1695
looks like the patch is live! come onnnnn new servers with more room for beta access :D
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
November 10 2015 02:18 GMT
#1696
alright first game in the patch, let's see how it goes.
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
November 10 2015 02:27 GMT
#1697
alright so genji is broken as shit, not only does he block bullets, but he deflects them back at you for 100% RD
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
November 10 2015 04:55 GMT
#1698
On November 10 2015 11:27 Jer99 wrote:
alright so genji is broken as shit, not only does he block bullets, but he deflects them back at you for 100% RD

pretty sure that's intended
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
November 10 2015 10:08 GMT
#1699
after a few more games, the new heroes are so boring. Too much crowd control, too much hard countering of everything, it makes the game so stale now
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
iXphobos
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany1464 Posts
November 10 2015 10:23 GMT
#1700
On November 10 2015 19:08 Jer99 wrote:
after a few more games, the new heroes are so boring. Too much crowd control, too much hard countering of everything, it makes the game so stale now

Hm. Your thoughts seem like the complete oppposite to everyone else.
It's just Mei who got CC. And while she's pretty powerful, i wouldn't consider her op.
Also Genji is pretty hard to play effectively.
I can't tell for myself, because i have no beta, but that's what i got from streamers and some posts.
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