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On October 10 2014 04:52 Capz wrote:
Such a sad developement off e-sports that is happening today compared to the early SC2 days were passion was the main part, today e-sports is just plain marketing,
I feel the same way. I loved the way SC2 developed. Yes, Blizzard gave it some necessary pushes in the back, but at its core it was a grassroots movement made possible by a few very dedicated people.
Viewership numbers might be declining, but I feel genuinely proud of having been part of SC2 esports since the very beginning. I haven't played a ladder game in a very long time but whenever there is a premier tournament going on during the weekend, I'm watching it. I still remember the hype when Fruit Dealer won the first GSL, when Thorzain plowed through Korean player after korean player and ended up winning TSL3... so many memorable moments.
Nowadays esports is just another way to milk enthusiastic gamers, together with those ridiculously overpriced gaming peripherals, early access, kickstarter campaigns and preorder dlc. It seems that Blizzard smelled cash in the new Free2Play fad, and I'm quite sure this goes at the cost of Legacy of the Void. I wouldn't be surprised if LOTV didn't come out before 2016.
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There's an unusual amount of hate towards Blizzard for promoting their own game.. at their own convention. What are you even thinking when you type?
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Conspiracy nuts ahoy...
And for people that bring up stream numbers, please go back and see what kind of numbers SC2 had during the beta and quite a while after release and then get back to me how Heroes are supposedly done long before its release...
And why people gets anywhere near upset at Blizzard having a promotional tournament at their own conventions is beyond me. It's silly at best.
And if anyone think Naniwa is doing this because he wants to go pro or that he's changed his mind about what is or isn't a competitive game, I wouldn't hold my breath. He gets a plane ticket and some compensation to piss people off, not a bad deal for him.
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On October 10 2014 06:35 Zenbrez wrote:
There's an unusual amount of hate towards Blizzard for promoting their own game.. at their own convention. What are you even thinking when you type?
To be honest what I'm thinking is that the best days of gaming are behind us. The buzzword nowadays is monetisation, not delivering quality products. 2007-2011 were golden years with a new AAA games raising the bar in almost every department. Games like Halo 3, the Gears of War series, Uncharted, LittleBigPlanet, Left4Dead, Portal 1 and 2, Assassin's creed, COD4: MW and the list goes on. Nowadays it's just sequel upon sequel upon sequel, or multiple companies making pretty much the same game (Valve, riot, blizzard, etc.), desperately hoping to get a piece of the pie.
I don't care about hype anymore. I am waiting for a game that grips me as much as Half Life 2, Bioshock, Starcraft 2, Morrowind and more recently Dark Souls did: games I can lose myself in for hours without end, and want to replay as soon as I've finished them. Each and every one of those games had glaring issues; but what they lacked in technical perfection, they made up with soul. These games are more than the mere sum of their parts. They passion from the people working on them, as opposed to games that basically beg me to open my wallet the moment I boot them up.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
Why are we quoting Naniwa? 
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Wowowow, I just read he whole thread. Hots just got real for me =). But meh I want to cheer for TL, IdrA and Naniwa but they are all on a different team. Or is there a chance of LiquidIdra??  I´m sure we will be wiser soon
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On October 10 2014 06:47 ahswtini wrote:Why are we quoting Naniwa?
Because he confirms beliefs that people already hold.
I have no idea, but its pretty funny. He has not changed one bit.
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United States22154 Posts
On October 10 2014 05:39 Capz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 04:55 Zealously wrote:On October 10 2014 04:52 Capz wrote:
Such a sad developemen off e-sports that is happening today compared to the early SC2 days were passion was the main part, today e-sports is just marketing, I agree that the teams attending are mostly there because they're big names (I don't know to what extent, I don't watch HotS), but there is only a tournament because the community that grew around the HotS alpha wanted to be competitive. This is definitely a passion-driven thing at heart. are you trying to be funny? That blizzcon "tournament" is plain marketing. There is no passion driven HOTS community, no one is watching people streaming the game, there is no competitive scene or anything. This event is pure marketing. Inb4 Blizzard are gonna start offering leagues, team houses, salaries, world cups and everything the Riot way to force people start playing it "competitively".
Symbiote, Glorious, Snowflake, ESV Wildfire, Clairvoyant, El Nexo, MyMinsanity, to name a few of the competitive teams that exist. ECS to name just one tournament, Heroes Premier League if European tournaments are more your style. These are tournaments with no money offered that still draw teams that practice 4+ hours a day (Check our dreadnought and idra interviews for confirmation). Just because you're not aware that a scene exists, doesn't mean it doesn't. The fact is, blizzcon is a marketing move in a lot of senses, but this is a good thing for the scene, more viewers means that really good teams that already exist are likely to get viewers. So while the merits of fielding untested players against people who've spent a long of time exploring the game and developing strategically is debatable from an informed spectators point of view, its probably going to do good things for the scene as is.
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On October 10 2014 06:33 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 04:52 Capz wrote:
Such a sad developement off e-sports that is happening today compared to the early SC2 days were passion was the main part, today e-sports is just plain marketing, I feel the same way. I loved the way SC2 developed. Yes, Blizzard gave it some necessary pushes in the back, but at its core it was a grassroots movement made possible by a few very dedicated people. Viewership numbers might be declining, but I feel genuinely proud of having been part of SC2 esports since the very beginning. I haven't played a ladder game in a very long time but whenever there is a premier tournament going on during the weekend, I'm watching it. I still remember the hype when Fruit Dealer won the first GSL, when Thorzain plowed through Korean player after korean player and ended up winning TSL3... so many memorable moments. Nowadays esports is just another way to milk enthusiastic gamers, together with those ridiculously overpriced gaming peripherals, early access, kickstarter campaigns and preorder dlc. It seems that Blizzard smelled cash in the new Free2Play fad, and I'm quite sure this goes at the cost of Legacy of the Void. I wouldn't be surprised if LOTV didn't come out before 2016.
I feel the complete opposite way.
To me, SC2 had no passion to it. Well, more so, I didn't feel it. Blizzard tried to make it revolve entirely around e-sports, what with WCS and all, and in my eyes it was a failure. They monopolized the scene so much it felt like it was choking.
I played WC3 for ten years. E-sports was flaring up at that time, mostly with WCG and ESWC (in the West, that is), and at that point it was mostly about passion. I say mostly, because obviously there was a money incentive, and many scams were pulled. But beyond the competitions, there was a sense of community I failed to find in SC2 when I started playing. And what I miss most of all is the team-oriented aspect of the scene.
In WC3, the teams actually mattered. It was largely a 1v1 game, but many people identified players with their team first and foremost. ToD and Grubby? Think 4K. Insomnia? Think SK. Moon and Lucifer? Think MYM. Today in SC2 though, I find it hard to actually identify with teams. As far as I know, the only well-known team-based competition is the GSTL. Other than that, everything else focuses on the players and doesn't really let you cheer for more.
Don't get me wrong though. I still agree with you to some extent. I dislike e-sports for the sake of e-sports. People seem to be rushing into that whole business with HotS, sadly. It might work out, it might not. I think this time around, Blizzard will be smart enough to let the community handle that stuff, much like what they're doing with Hearthstone.
Then, given the team aspect of the game, perhaps I can find my new WC3 and cheer for the new 4K! Or not.
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On October 10 2014 08:15 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 06:33 maartendq wrote:On October 10 2014 04:52 Capz wrote:
Such a sad developement off e-sports that is happening today compared to the early SC2 days were passion was the main part, today e-sports is just plain marketing, I feel the same way. I loved the way SC2 developed. Yes, Blizzard gave it some necessary pushes in the back, but at its core it was a grassroots movement made possible by a few very dedicated people. Viewership numbers might be declining, but I feel genuinely proud of having been part of SC2 esports since the very beginning. I haven't played a ladder game in a very long time but whenever there is a premier tournament going on during the weekend, I'm watching it. I still remember the hype when Fruit Dealer won the first GSL, when Thorzain plowed through Korean player after korean player and ended up winning TSL3... so many memorable moments. Nowadays esports is just another way to milk enthusiastic gamers, together with those ridiculously overpriced gaming peripherals, early access, kickstarter campaigns and preorder dlc. It seems that Blizzard smelled cash in the new Free2Play fad, and I'm quite sure this goes at the cost of Legacy of the Void. I wouldn't be surprised if LOTV didn't come out before 2016. I feel the complete opposite way. To me, SC2 had no passion to it. Well, more so, I didn't feel it. Blizzard tried to make it revolve entirely around e-sports, what with WCS and all, and in my eyes it was a failure. They monopolized the scene so much it felt like it was choking. I played WC3 for ten years. E-sports was flaring up at that time, mostly with WCG and ESWC (in the West, that is), and at that point it was mostly about passion. I say mostly, because obviously there was a money incentive, and many scams were pulled. But beyond the competitions, there was a sense of community I failed to find in SC2 when I started playing. And what I miss most of all is the team-oriented aspect of the scene. In WC3, the teams actually mattered. It was largely a 1v1 game, but many people identified players with their team first and foremost. ToD and Grubby? Think 4K. Insomnia? Think SK. Moon and Lucifer? Think MYM. Today in SC2 though, I find it hard to actually identify with teams. As far as I know, the only well-known team-based competition is the GSTL. Other than that, everything else focuses on the players and doesn't really let you cheer for more. Don't get me wrong though. I still agree with you to some extent. I dislike e-sports for the sake of e-sports. People seem to be rushing into that whole business with HotS, sadly. It might work out, it might not. I think this time around, Blizzard will be smart enough to let the community handle that stuff, much like what they're doing with Hearthstone. Then, given the team aspect of the game, perhaps I can find my new WC3 and cheer for the new 4K! Or not.
Proleague? ATC?
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the hell are you people on about, all they are doing is create some show matched for their new arena game, how else would they present it?
And i dont see any kind of " new age" esport that is only artificial.
The events and viewers are appropriate to the respective player bases.
games like dota and league had/have big player bases and fanmade tournaments long before the publisher company got involved in it.
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This thread is full of people who claim to follow/play SC2 and don't and people that think the "heyday" of esports is bad FPS's like Halo 3 and COD.
Blizzard isn't doing anything wrong by promoting their own game at their own convention. How stupid is the argument that having a tournament for a game that they are developing is some sort of ploy to dupe the community or "milk the esports market".
Competitive gaming isn't new, it wasn't new in 2007, it wasn't new in 2004. Just because it's more popular and mainstream now doesn't mean having a tournament for a game is some underhanded cash grab. I personally think Heroes is a really fun game that differentiates itself from all the other moba clones on the market.
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I honestly forgot this game existed. I am glad to see it has a following and even TL is picking up a team. I remember watching a couple matches a while back. Looking forward to all the games at blizzcon this year.
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oh wow so much shilling, and that goes both ways
I miss the unbiased opinions of TL members but holy cow, what has this thread turned to
on topic:
Not gonna watch it, first because I still haven't got my beta key, second because those players/teams are just for attention drawing purposes it seems.
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Mexico2170 Posts
On October 10 2014 11:00 JP Dayne wrote:
oh wow so much shilling, and that goes both ways
I miss the unbiased opinions of TL members but holy cow, what has this thread turned to
on topic:
Not gonna watch it, first because I still haven't got my beta key, second because those players/teams are just for attention drawing purposes it seems.
As any other tournament really.
Yes, Dreamhack, MLG, ESL doesn't run tournaments just for the love of esports, they do it because it draws attention and therefore money. They obviosly like them, but so do Blizz.
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So this game is being considered a real competitive game now? Anyone want to form a pro Connect Four team?
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On October 10 2014 13:40 Prophanity wrote:
So this game is being considered a real competitive game now? Anyone want to form a pro Connect Four team?
Connect 4 is 1v1 you casual.
I'll probably watch just for my sweetie IdrA. And who knows, maybe I'll even like it!
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On October 10 2014 13:40 Prophanity wrote:
So this game is being considered a real competitive game now? Anyone want to form a pro Connect Four team?
Just remember, to all you SC2 fans who claim BW fans are elitist... might wanna look at yourselves right now.
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It seems like the teams will be made up of ex-starcraft and league of legends players working together
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EPT
