Today marks a historic day for the Liquid team as we are ready to unveil our two newest members:
Liquid`Ken and Liquid`KDJ.
A Word on Smash
Last October a documentary was released that followed the players and competitive scene of Super Smash Brothers Melee. It received a lot of praise and I would go as far as to say that I have never seen better esports content. If you haven't seen it I would check it out as it's a nice way to relax, and will make it easy to understand why we're adding players for Smash.
I've been pretty focused on just a couple games and after seeing the documentary it was like a whole new world opened up. I was blown away by the depth of this game and that it was still going strong after so many years without any support. The scene that is behind Smash is amazing. The game is 13 years old and has stood the test of time over and over again. The game is deep and deserving of being an esport.
After many years of absence in 2013 Smash Melee made its return to EVO, the largest fighting game tournament in the world. It snuck in through the backdoor by winning a poll measured in charity donations. It shocked the world by getting 700 entrants, the most ever for a Smash tournament, and 130,000 unique viewers, the second most watched game out of all eight games at EVO. At Anaheim, MLG will be bringing Smash back after a long, long absence. After 13 years, the game might just see their biggest year yet.
Smash is a bit of an outcast in the fighting game community. As an esport there hasn't been support from Nintendo and the balance of the game is largely held in place by many bugs that were never intended to be in there. It reminds me a lot of Brood War in so many ways.
The players we start a team with are KoreanDJ and Ken, two legends that together with our announcement will announce their official comeback to competitive Smash. They're incredible players and personalities. Ken actually is a huge BW/SC2/Dota, and Liquid fan and appeared on the popular TV show Survivor. KoreanDJ used to visit TL over ten years ago for BW replays and plays an amazing violin.
Having worked with both guys for a while now I am confident as ever that they will do a great job representing our team and sponsors. Recently KDJ took it to M2K at the Smashing Grounds tournament and went 2-3 with him, twice. An incredible feat for someone making a comeback. This announcement has been one of the coolest things we've ever done and I hope it is only the start. They will do a great job representing us.
I am really excited that we have branched off towards the SSBM competitive scene. I am happy to have Ken “Sephiroth” Hoang and Daniel “KDJ” Jung to be a part of Team Liquid. I have been following the smash scene for quite a while now and these two are definitely some of my favorite players to watch. Being a big Smash enthusiast, I can’t wait to meet these two in person and play some friendly games (hopefully it won’t be too rough). After watching the Smash documentary I know that both of these guys show great dedication and passion for the game and I can see a bright future for both of them by being a part of Liquid. The hype just got more real now and I can’t wait to watch these two play under the Liquid tag.
Liquid`wayto
I'm very happy to see melee grow and for Liquid to get a team! I played SSBM a lot myself back in 2002 and several times since. Watching SSBM at the highest level is extremely entertaining and I recommend all SC2 fans and check out future events and enjoy the quality 'micro'.
PS: Yoshi is the most awesome character!!! Yoshiiiiiiiiiii !
Liquid`Snute
SSBM is a game built on speed, creativity, and emotion, a beautiful accident with a competitive scene that was never anticipated by its players or publisher. It is a game forged in living room couches and friends' basements, on tiny CRT monitors and $5 money matches. It is a game built on mechanical and mental skill with ten year veteran players who still smash every week and care about which coast of the United States you grew up on.
The highs and lows of Melee's life span are well documented. The game went from kids huddled in college dorm rooms to a big stage, golden age of $10,000 MLG tournaments, back to player-organized "lets hold one more grassroots event before Melee dies" back to a 100,000+ viewer EVO 2013.
Melee is a survivor. It fought slow declines, a "death" sequel, and the efforts of its creator to kill its competitive scene. Thirteen years later, here it stands, with the most entrants ever for events and Nintendo finally recognizing its scrappy little scene. Melee will be at MLG for the first time since 2007, and again a few weeks later at EVO 2014.
So when Liquid decided to pick up two legends from an entirely different, console-based fighting game, it felt natural. The game is StarCraft-esque, which is the best compliment we can give it. You don't form communities and friendships and a lifestyle around flash-in-the-pan, dead in six month game titles. Ordinarily, games should not see a revival 13 years after launch. But Melee, like StarCraft, is not just an ordinary game.
On March 19 2014 02:57 Epoxide wrote: checked if it was april 1st, not yet
Same. Had to triple check to see if this was some kind of prank I was missing out on. That said, this is soooooo cool! I never would have expected Liquid to field any players for Melee, let alone legends like these guys. I'm really excited to see how this goes.
Holy crap.... So this was Ken's big announcement. After I saw HotBid posting a whole bunch of smash bros stuff on his twitter, I actually thought, TL should make a LiquidSmash.
"Recently KDJ took it to M2K in a tournament environment and went 2-3 with him, twice."
One of these tournaments was the Smashing Grounds tournament, which I organized and ran. It would mean a lot to me if you could potentially edit the article to include its name for our own publicity sake, but obviously this is not required in any way.
I was eating my lunch and decided to go on youtube and saw this.. All I could do is shout "what"and "what is going on!" Huge nostalgia for me seeing smash things. Super excited for this..
So liquid adds Melee players before the officially pick up a Hearthstone player ... talk about unexpected! This are the kinds of surprises I like to see :D GL to Ken and KDJ on the comeback. I am sure they will both do well.
On March 19 2014 03:07 People_0f_Color wrote: "Recently KDJ took it to M2K in a tournament environment and went 2-3 with him, twice."
One of these tournaments was the Smashing Grounds tournament, which I organized and ran. It would mean a lot to me if you could potentially edit the article to include its name for our own publicity sake, but obviously this is not required in any way.
On March 19 2014 03:30 Durak wrote: Can you play SSBM online? How is the scene so big. :O
You can play Melee online but there's latency so not many people play it.
We like the game so we get together to play it lol. Most major cities hold a weekly tournament that's pretty friendly for the local scene to get together. People also house smashfests at their house.
On March 19 2014 03:30 Durak wrote: Can you play SSBM online? How is the scene so big. :O
You technically can, but you have to go through a lot of headaches with emulators, and I haven't yet done a match that wasn't laggy enough to make me rage.
As a frequent local tournament entrant in both games since 2004, I honestly like Brawl better, minus the tripping and meta-knight, so I hope that the Melee competitive scene transfers to Smash 4, along with the criminally under-appreciated Brawl scene. SSB4 is looking like it's 90% the speed of Melee and with the floatiness and silky smoothness of Brawl. Probably won't have wavedashing, so I'm sure we'll get some rebel holdouts in Melee, but you can't please everybody...
ive been following the global esport scene for 10 years now and never heard any tourney of this game nor any news of it on any esport page.
cool? yes very. but other than that i dont understand why. Feels like there is something behind this that we dont know of. My jk theory: super rich japanese supporting liquid only if they add players of his favorite game.
WTF man, talk about blind sided, I never expected this! This is so awesome I'm just staggered, literally had my mouth open while reading the OP. TL expanding into the fighting scene, man I never would have thought in a million years.
Also, that video is FUCKING RAD! :D
edit: I also had to check to see if it was April yet lol like did I have a stroke and suddenly it was April? Nope, it's real.
Like the only possible move that could make me love Liquid more. Wow. Stocked. So happy. Is Liquid only aiming for melee? No Brawl or Project M? Also lets not forget the new game coming out soon! sorry if this was already answered...
Holy shit, this is so sick. I used to play SSBM soooooooo competitively with family and friends (regret not ever trying out for tournies, but none were local :/)
I don't know anything about the SSBM pro scene but I'm excited to watch these guys and learn.
On March 19 2014 03:51 alukarD wrote: Like the only possible move that could make me love Liquid more. Wow. Stocked. So happy. Is Liquid only aiming for melee? No Brawl or Project M? Also lets not forget the new game coming out soon! sorry if this was already answered...
I will be shocked if they don't play pm at tourny's they enter
This is seriously amazing news. Smash is my favorite fighter by a mile. Never has a game made such a comeback as melee has done in the last year or so. EVO, MLG, and now Liquid all getting in on it? I hope it lasts a long time!
been on tl since around 2002, and this is one of the most exciting announcements I've seen. melee is so similar to bw in a lot of ways. I'll be cheering for the liquid guys!
So awesome. I watched that documentary series a few months ago (I think it was november) and it completely opened my eyes, seems like a completely awesome close-knit scene . Congrats to Ken and KDJ and contrats to Team Liquid.
HOLY. FUCKING. SHIT. Melee was my absolute favorite before discovering sc... so needless to say I just jizzed a little when I opened up TL and discovered this – the GOD of melee... omg
Did not see that coming. Liquid is really growing, next thing you know they will pick up a FPS team. Also is Super smash brothers melee a big scene? I thought street fighter and mortal kombat were the big fighting game titles.
Sweet, watched the documentary when it was released and it was amazing. Never even heard of the game before that, outside of being the only game I watched from EVO. Sick announcement video too.
On March 19 2014 04:23 HeeroFX wrote: Did not see that coming. Liquid is really growing, next thing you know they will pick up a FPS team. Also is Super smash brothers melee a big scene? I thought street fighter and mortal kombat were the big fighting game titles.
Not sure what scenes are the biggest, but what I do know is that TL doesn't always factor that in and usually just go with what they believe in or enjoy more.
On March 19 2014 04:22 itsJames wrote: I wonder how those guy train as there is no "ladder" or online platform. Anyone can enlighten me ?
prob with people who live around the same area. that' why the pros end to be from highly populated areas. and why when you watch the stuff their always talking about west coast and east coast scenes.
On March 19 2014 04:23 HeeroFX wrote: Did not see that coming. Liquid is really growing, next thing you know they will pick up a FPS team. Also is Super smash brothers melee a big scene? I thought street fighter and mortal kombat were the big fighting game titles.
Not sure what scenes are the biggest, but what I do know is that TL doesn't always factor that in and usually just go with what they believe in or enjoy more.
SF4, Marvel, Killer Instinct and KoF are the other big ones. There are also the anime fighters, who have their own really passionate but smaller scene - that's games like BlazBlue, Arcana Heart and Guilty Gear. And most players play multiple games, so the scene is very incestuous. F'rinstance, Justin Wong plays Marvel, KI and Street Fighter, and has dabbled in KoF. The only Smash player who has any fighting game success outside Smash is Leffen. So Smash is more its own thing and less part of the wider FGC.
Sweet mother of Jesus, THIS IS SO AWESOME! I play a lot of Super Smash Brothers, but I had never any interest in the pro scene. This will change now for sure! BTW my mains are Ness, Zelda/Sheik and Marth. I got sick nerd chills when I saw the Marth play in the announcement^^ Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Welcome smash bros! After watching the doc several times showing it to people, trying to explain what it's all about, I sorta feel like I know you guys.
Came here for the starcrafts and I never really saw much of competitive smash or expected this kind of awesome nostalgia bomb to blow up @TL. Takes me right back to dorm-room smash fests in college. Stoked to watch yall compete!
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
first time in months where i've been psyched as hell to hear some news. You made my day TL, grats to KDJ and Ken, can't wait to see em play under the TL tag
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Because melee is a superior competative game in every way. It's faster, has a much higher skill level, it's way more exciting and the balance was better (not good, but better than brawl). Brawl is way too slow and campy, it's quite boring. And SSB4 is expected to be the exact same way, Nintendo said. So melee is just much better.
On March 19 2014 04:36 YokaY wrote: This is unbelievably exciting. Melee basically defined 50% of my college experience. I cannot wait to see where this goes.
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
Some examples - No L-cancelling/wavedashing killed a lot of the mechanical skill required to play at the top level. The floatier physics meant that players had more of an opportunity to DI since characters in Brawl generally die at higher percents than in Melee.
On March 19 2014 04:36 YokaY wrote: This is unbelievably exciting. Melee basically defined 50% of my college experience. I cannot wait to see where this goes.
Is smash going to get it's own forum here now?
Probably. In the process of working one out now.
Great, now I have even less reason to ever not be on TL now. Thanks guys.
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
You don't understand because you weren't a competitive player. Look at some of the videos in this thread, like How Fast is Melee. There is no "How Fast is Brawl" video because the answer is "slow as fuck."
Hmm I definitely have to play SSBM and SSBB on the same day to check the speed difference you guys are talking about. As long as Ness and Zelda can be played I actually dont care which SSB gets played^^
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
Think of broodwar where you have things like Muta stacking and Vulture Patrol micro. These are technically bugs, but they added so much depth and skill to the game. Melee is full of mechanics like that, that brawl took away.
So while casuals don't even notice that those mechanics are gone, pro's feel like they can't even play the game anymore.
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
Just watch this - once you are able to play at this level the difference between Melee and Brawl becomes night and day
This is so sick, I have just recently watched the whole Smash Brothers documentary and coming from sc2 and dota2 scene I absolutely fell in love with this community! Great to see Liquid coming to melee, I'll be watching you at MLG Anaheim
On March 19 2014 04:41 Big-t wrote: Hmm I definitely have to play SSBM and SSBB on the same day to check the speed difference you guys are talking about. As long as Ness and Zelda can be played I actually dont care which SSB gets played^^
It's a big difference, especailly in how long the games take to play. Brawl characters die at a much higher percent, plus the game is just slower in general, so the games take forever compared melee.
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
Just watch this - once you are able to play at this level the difference between Melee and Brawl becomes night and day
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
Just watch this - once you are able to play at this level the difference between Melee and Brawl becomes night and day
Disregarding dark, is there anyone on the planet that can play at that speed? Maybe silentwolf?
Consistently in terms of straight up techskill silentwolf and dark are pretty much considered the fastest. If were just talking clips here and there (when someone pulls off a great combo) mango, westballz, m2k, even drPP have pulled off stuff that fast during tournaments
I actually watch Survivor (I know its 2014) dude I loved you in that Ken! Fuck Sugar!!!! Will you ever consider doing an All Stars season? You deserve redemption Ken!!
I hope TL doesn't get jealous they have the most famous gamer in the US now.
OK what the actual fuck? is going on... was not expecting this at all... Always thought TL was going to create a Hearthstone squad as part of the trilogy of games in the scene but I guess melee is good too. SC2, DotA2, and melee does this mean TL won't have a HS squad?
On March 19 2014 04:49 WoodLeagueAllStar wrote: I actually watch Survivor (I know its 2014) dude I loved you in that Ken! Fuck Sugar!!!! Will you ever considering doing an All Stars season? You deserve redemption Ken!!
I hope TL doesn't get jealous they have the most famous gamer in the US now.
This is so awesome. I was revisiting the vods from evo and apex yesterday, then I come here to see this. I couldn't be more excited for everyone. Now I get to look forward to SSB news on TL :D
Edit:
On March 19 2014 05:07 Liquid`Ken wrote: Happy to be apart of Team Liquid and super hyped. Thanks for all the support everyone! <3
I've been away from Nintendo consoles for almost two decades so I've never got into Smash Bros but I can still approve of this, cool stuff. I doubt anyone saw this coming, although I was hoping for a Street Fighter team some time back.
Melee isn't exactly a growing scene that draws in a lot of viewership, it's just an inbred scene that was neglected for a while and people were "astounded" when they remembered "Oh yeah, people play that game." It's an unbalanced mess that's mediocre at best to watch and not fun to play unless playing casually. I just don't see a point in this.
Edit: Maybe a bit harsh, nothing against the players, I'm sure they're great at what they do, and it's awesome for Liquid to support anyone who's into progaming and all that, I just don't understand why this game.
So psyched about this, my roomie introduced me to smash 5 years ago and I loved the game, even if I had very few chances to play it since then I always kept it on the back of my mind and the docu really pushed me into following the scene closely.
On March 19 2014 05:14 disciple wrote: So psyched about this, my roomie introduced me to smash 5 years ago and I loved the game, even if I had very few chances to play it since then I always kept it on the back of my mind and the docu really pushed me into following the scene closely.
When will the TL store have smash stuff for sale >_>
I grew up with Super Smash Bros. 64 being my game, but I know the Melee community is far greater competition-wise, and I'm happy to see TL creating a SSB Team ^^
Looking forward to more great things from TL and these players
On March 19 2014 03:30 Durak wrote: Can you play SSBM online? How is the scene so big. :O
Combination of different things, but years and years of the friendlist, best community will get you a scene like this.
The scene is built on a huge tradition of hospitality and trust. When I played ultra competitively, we used to travel to different states in groups of 3-4 and stay at complete strangers houses over a weekend so we could attend tournaments.
The most important things though, are that the community knows exactly how great their game is and how fun it is too. That's been the ultimate shield through time, sequels and other games.
It also helps that it's literally got the best of both worlds from the Starcraft games, something for everybody. Extremely hard and mechanical at the top like Brood War, but at the same time it has a built in fanbase and a smaller learning curve like Starcraft 2.
At the end of the day melee is incredibly deep and incredibly fun and that's why I still go to Smashfests every Friday.
On March 19 2014 05:11 deth2munkies wrote: Just one question: Why?
Melee isn't exactly a growing scene that draws in a lot of viewership, it's just an inbred scene that was neglected for a while and people were "astounded" when they remembered "Oh yeah, people play that game." It's an unbalanced mess that's mediocre at best to watch and not fun to play unless playing casually. I just don't see a point in this.
Edit: Maybe a bit harsh, nothing against the players, I'm sure they're great at what they do, and it's awesome for Liquid to support anyone who's into progaming and all that, I just don't understand why this game.
Melee is a growing scene, it has at least doubled over the last year. The game attracted 130000 viewers at EVO, thus a lot of people consider it more than mediocre to watch. Not fun to play is again your own opinion, plenty of people enjoy competitive smash.
are you kidding me that they ask 150$ for a used gamecube online wtf, if only i could bring here mine from EU. games are even more expensive, i fucking miss SSBM, f-zero and mario party 4 home brawls.
and ofc, good luck to both the new liquid family members!
This is unbelievable, I really can't believe how incredible this is.
Well done for seeing that Melee is THE game to be following right now, it is growing like crazy after the documentary (probably the best video game based show ever made).
Very excited because I hope we can get Liquid over here to participate in UK comps!!!!
On March 19 2014 04:31 Big-t wrote: Question: Why are they still playing Melee when brawl is already out for a few years and the first new chars for the WII U SSB are already announced? [I know Mewtwo is too cool ]
Brawl is really slow, mechanics are missing + tripping. It's basically awful(disliked it even as a casual player back in the day). There is Project M which is a mod that makes Brawl a bit more competitive.
I don´t understand what you mean with missing mechanics and slower. My friends and me switched to brawl as soon as it came out and we never felt any worsening. Only the maps are unplayable with so much random shit and moving plates and so on... AND MEWTWO WAS LEFT BEHIND!!
Just watch this - once you are able to play at this level the difference between Melee and Brawl becomes night and day
On March 19 2014 03:22 Shellshock wrote: Interesting. Haven't played in long time (not that I was good or anything) but this really makes me want to play some smash
Yeah this really makes me want to play again, but I don't have a Gamecube . I always played at a friends place back then (N64 though).
On March 19 2014 05:11 deth2munkies wrote: Just one question: Why?
Melee isn't exactly a growing scene that draws in a lot of viewership, it's just an inbred scene that was neglected for a while and people were "astounded" when they remembered "Oh yeah, people play that game." It's an unbalanced mess that's mediocre at best to watch and not fun to play unless playing casually. I just don't see a point in this.
Edit: Maybe a bit harsh, nothing against the players, I'm sure they're great at what they do, and it's awesome for Liquid to support anyone who's into progaming and all that, I just don't understand why this game.
Melee is a growing scene, it has at least doubled over the last year. The game attracted 130000 viewers at EVO, thus a lot of people consider it more than mediocre to watch. Not fun to play is again your own opinion, plenty of people enjoy competitive smash.
There are very much two camps in melee. The largest one (due mostly to the sheer ubiquity of the game) is composed of people who play purely casually. At this level, very few people know the mechanics of advanced play, or even how to shuffle or wavedash. The relatively smaller group covers people who have at least on some level, realized the potential that all these techniques can give. People always said it was horrendously balanced (a tier system exists with the characters), yet those tiers were being rewritten each year as the meta developed.
On March 19 2014 03:22 Shellshock wrote: Interesting. Haven't played in long time (not that I was good or anything) but this really makes me want to play some smash
Yeah this really makes me want to play again, but I don't have a Gamecube . I always played at a friends place back then (N64 though).
You can always use the Dolphin emulator, it works just fine with SSBM.
Really weird direction that Team Liquid is taking after expanding to DotA2 and Hearthstone, but I can't say that I'm disappointed
On March 19 2014 05:22 babishh wrote: are you kidding me that they ask 150$ for a used gamecube online wtf, if only i could bring here mine from EU. games are even more expensive, i fucking miss SSBM, f-zero and mario party 4 home brawls.
and ofc, good luck to both the new liquid family members!
Where are you buying from where they charge $150? The console and controller should be like $20, even with shipping costs I can't see it costing $150. I did do some shopping around though, so maybe I just got a good deal
On March 19 2014 05:31 wozzot wrote: Really weird direction that Team Liquid is taking after expanding to DotA2 and Hearthstone, but I can't say that I'm disappointed
On March 19 2014 05:22 babishh wrote: are you kidding me that they ask 150$ for a used gamecube online wtf, if only i could bring here mine from EU. games are even more expensive, i fucking miss SSBM, f-zero and mario party 4 home brawls.
and ofc, good luck to both the new liquid family members!
Where are you buying from where they charge $150? The console and controller should be like $20, even with shipping costs I can't see it costing $150
I just had 2 controllers delivered to my house for 30euro a piece
Customs charge raped me though, since it was import from japan.
On March 19 2014 05:22 babishh wrote: are you kidding me that they ask 150$ for a used gamecube online wtf, if only i could bring here mine from EU. games are even more expensive, i fucking miss SSBM, f-zero and mario party 4 home brawls.
and ofc, good luck to both the new liquid family members!
You can play those games on a Nintendo Wii with the gamecube controller ports, since it can play GC discs natively.
Remember that the latest produced model doesn't have the GC ports though, so you have to go for the older model.
Holy gawwwwwd. Been playing competitive for like 10+ years and have had TL as my homepage for like 8 years. Getting these two together is like the greatest thing ever! Well played!
By the way you should change the link to the documentary to the remastered version (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSf2mgkRm7Q&list=PLoUHkRwnRH-IXbZfwlgiEN8eXmoj6DtKM&index=1)
Pretty Awesome. Melee is my 5th favorite game behind WC3, SC1, SC2, and Diablo 2. Never really watched competitive matches of it though will definitely start now.
Mind blown. Saying this comes out of left field is understating it. Truly amazing that Smash will get some major recognition, and that Liquid supports 3 of my favourite games, but ... Wow. To be honest, I would have expected Liquid.MagictheGathering before Liquid Smash (and obviously LoL before that, but I'm disinterested in LoL).
This has been an amazing year for Melee so far. Glad to see it getting the attention it deserves. Melee is estimated to have 250+ apm at top level play talk about a technical game.
I've been catching tournaments here and there thanks to Twitch, and my memories of playing in college with other kids from the dorm are some of my absolute favorites... and so I cannot tell you how happy I am to see SSBM and Liquid finally team up in this way!
On March 19 2014 06:50 Zato-1 wrote: The selection of games Team Liquid chooses to officially cover and focus on continues to baffle me... well, good luck I guess.
Why does it bother you which players and games TL like to sponsor? Let me guess, you'd like to see them pick up a LoL team or something?
I haven't played a smash bros game since the N64, so I won't be personally affected by this, but props to Nazgul for investing in something he believes in, since this seems riskier than the SC2/DotA sponsorships.
I've loved playing smash since the N64 days, and I've just recently started watching some competitive matches. Glad to see Liquid is getting in on it as well!
On March 19 2014 06:50 Zato-1 wrote: The selection of games Team Liquid chooses to officially cover and focus on continues to baffle me... well, good luck I guess.
Why does it bother you which players and games TL like to sponsor? Let me guess, you'd like to see them pick up a LoL team or something?
I haven't played a smash bros game since the N64, so I won't be personally affected by this, but props to Nazgul for investing in something he believes in, since this seems riskier than the SC2/DotA sponsorships.
Melee will be at MLG and EVO this year, it's a smart business decision as well as possibly a passion project.
Honestly, if TL had signed a LoL team as suggested 2 years ago when the scene was just getting big they would be doing so much better atm financially. But, morals, apparently.
On March 19 2014 07:20 1ntrigue wrote: No LoL team but a SSBM team. TL is #hipster4lyfe
Honestly, if TL had signed a LoL team as suggested 2 years ago when the scene was just getting big they would be doing so much better atm financially. But, morals, apparently.
What are these "morals" you are referring to? I think they could have pick up players from a dozen other games if they wanted to be hipster.
I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
Playing over the internet is cool but I have a feeling that one of the things that really makes a scene special and close knit is the fact that you are forced to game socially face to face in order to get better. To be honest isn't that really what happened for BW in all the PC Bangs in SK that really made it take off. The social aspect is boss, tourneys and smashfests are SO much fun. The old school element of 4 players sitting around the same screen is great imo . So I wouldn't worry hugely about playing on the internet...
Playing Smash bros online is "illegal" because you need an emulator to do it. Here's a link. The lag is pretty extreme. You can't play people too far away. e.g. west coast region doesn't play south region doesn't play east coast. http://smashboards.com/threads/dolphin-online-melee-netplay.335432/
You're looking at equal-to-or-worse-than-LCD-display-like lag with the 50ms delay. Since I have no CRT at the moment I've been on dolphin solo teching and I believe there is lag without internet as well.
I sometimes play, west coast, "desktop" on irc yay playing random people
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
On March 19 2014 07:43 Ktk wrote: Playing Smash bros online is "illegal" because you need an emulator to do it.
Last I remember, legal status talks about the files themselves that you open in the emulators, not the emulator itself. If you just use a copy of melee that you own, you'll be fine.
I watched the smash documentary a year or so ago, had no idea the game was so amazing, so happy about tl branching off into it even if I've never played the game. It's a ton of fun to watch, and the parallel with bw makes it a natural fit for TL.
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
oh lol... kof 13 refers to the version number , I assumed he was talking about having 13 frames of lag. Whoops
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you practice this game (or other fighting games) as a progamer if online is out of the question?
Naturally you can start playing with your friends in the beginning. The problem I see is when you start to get really good, do you just pray there's another talent living in your neighborhood? Do these gamers have team houses? Can you train against an AI to some extent?
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
EDIT- When I said online I don't mean the crap that currently exists. I mean something actually decent like modern fighters have which ARE playable with 1 frame timings as others have mentioned.
When you have a full time job and/or don't live in a good smash area it does make a difference. Online play is also one of those things that lets new players who have never touched it get a taste of it. Otherwise most people don't get to really enjoy the right level of competition. I mean, try imagining BW without online.
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you practice this game (or other fighting games) as a progamer if online is out of the question?
Naturally you can start playing with your friends in the beginning. The problem I see is when you start to get really good, do you just pray there's another talent living in your neighborhood? Do these gamers have team houses? Can you train against an AI to some extent?
Generally your best practice resource are the people geographically nearby. Today, with modern social media, finding players and events is not difficult, though obviously some areas have a higher density of competitive players than others. I don't know of team houses at the moment.
Other people have mentioned how online is suboptimal, and the AI is too weak to even approach practice.
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you practice this game (or other fighting games) as a progamer if online is out of the question?
Naturally you can start playing with your friends in the beginning. The problem I see is when you start to get really good, do you just pray there's another talent living in your neighborhood? Do these gamers have team houses? Can you train against an AI to some extent?
Crews. People play together often for fun (friendlies). Local tournaments happen all the time, and there were frequently larger gatherings for "why the hell not" (like Chudat's biweeklies). People money match each other all the time. Melee is entirely a LAN game. Back in the first Golden Age of Melee there were major LANs almost every month, in addition to the smaller LANs that happened every weekend.
After watching the documentaries, I've been tuning in to SSB streams when they are on. This is awesome! I can't wait to see them compete as part of Team Liquid. Good luck to Team Liquid, Ken and KoreanDJ!
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
Sorry for my ignorance, but how do you practice this game (or other fighting games) as a progamer if online is out of the question?
Naturally you can start playing with your friends in the beginning. The problem I see is when you start to get really good, do you just pray there's another talent living in your neighborhood? Do these gamers have team houses? Can you train against an AI to some extent?
Generally your best practice resource are the people geographically nearby. Today, with modern social media, finding players and events is not difficult, though obviously some areas have a higher density of competitive players than others. I don't know of team houses at the moment.
Other people have mentioned how online is suboptimal, and the AI is too weak to even approach practice.
Going to tournaments or meetings is the best method. Playing vs lvl 1 computer works pretty well for technical things, then you can utilize some creativity.
Finland at least has a huge scene, I don't really know how it would work without a large scene. We have 50+ player tournaments many times a year.
So sick. I used to play melee all the time with friends in high school. Even went to Canadian nationals one year (to money match and watch, not compete lol) good times.
This makes me hope that perhaps cs go (or at least a forum) is next? It's growing huge in viewers hip and as an export. (200k for katowice, doubling the last big dream hack in viewership)
I can still remember when myself and a couple other guys were the only decent players in Finland and there was no youtube yet in 2003-2004, so videos were pretty rare. We heard about this Ken guy all the time but there was just about no material available.
Then these videos came out:
And I know I watched this specific video at least 50 times being completely amazed at many things. Actually, watching this again, I still have this video memorized completely, knowing what % counts the players are at and what is going to happen next. Pretty amazing to think about.
Fun times, nice to see how much the game has evolved. For example this video right now is ... well, very outdated, I imagine most people over here could effortlessly defeat the players in the video. Still, it's nice to sometimes think about where it begun, at least from Finland's perspective. Me and around 3 others were the primary frontrunners of the Finnish scene.
On March 19 2014 07:29 SolidMoose wrote: I never would have guessed this would happen in a million years, but it's awesome. Although I'm sad all over again this game never got to be put online, especially with the much improved netcode fighting games have had lately. I would play it everyday.
Could Melee ever really be done over the internet? It's such a quick game, where people don't play on lcds because there is a frame or so of lag on them, that I just can't see a reality in which there isn't too much lag to play over the internet. Every 16.66.. ms is equivalent to 1 frames delay just by the by, and I just can't see a solution that would work to get rid of it.
But holy shit I wish there was one, I'd love to be able to play online :D
People hit 1 frame links online. People play KOF 13 online.
It's not ideal conditions but heh..
I'm going to piss people off with this but meh... melee is way way way way faster then kof, sf4, mvsc. Not that they don't have things requiring frame perfect timings either. How on earth do you play a fighter with 14 frames of lag
I'm a SF4 player and I agree with you. Melee is frantic and way faster. It's pretty close to kof13 tho as far as rhythm goes. But heh, not having a strong online mean people try to get together more. If you have the drive of the Smash community, it's not the lack of online play that will stop you.
EDIT- When I said online I don't mean the crap that currently exists. I mean something actually decent like modern fighters have which ARE playable with 1 frame timings as others have mentioned.
When you have a full time job and/or don't live in a good smash area it does make a difference. Online play is also one of those things that lets new players who have never touched it get a taste of it. Otherwise most people don't get to really enjoy the right level of competition. I mean, try imagining BW without online.
Well, good luck with that then, because online is always tested in Japan, and you know Japan's Internet and the rest of the world's internet is a world of difference.
Didn't expect this at all, but its a really cool surprise. Had no idea that smash was still going, but if there's an organization that will pick up players based on the integrity of a game over quantity, it certainly is Liquid. I look forward to watching the melee scene in the future.
KEN IS ON LIQUID IS THIS JASKL;JFA;KSDFLJASDFKJL?!?!!??!??!??!?!???! SMASH MELEE IS SO FUCKING GOOD OMFG KSDJLF;KLSDFAJ;KASDJKLDSAF;JKLAFJLKDSFJKADSFALKJSDF;
This is such a cool announcement. Great video too. I'm pumped because I love melee but never followed the competitive scene. Now I have a good reason to as a TL fan.
Omg that violin is too good! I'm so glad that melee has finally made it back to the big stage. Hopefully the new super smash bros 4 will be faster like they promise. But anyhow I'm just glad that melee is back. I always thought it was just as scbw the best player always wins.
So ridiculously excited and hyped!!! The video was excellent as well. I'm really happy to see TL enter into Melee; was sick at EVO last year, not to mention the various Apex tournaments throughout the years. Great news to come back from work to hear!
The craziest thing about this is that these two have been away from the scene for so long so it'll be interesting to see how they come back. Ken has been starting to make a comeback into minor tourneys, but KDJ hasn't been at a major in FOREVER.
Melee is the best competitive console game out there. Once you learn how technical and strategic it is, the world opens up even greater as there are countless things to master in that game.
AND another thing is that Melee thrives on being there live. You have to plug in your controller and be in front of a TV. Although its cool through technology and the internet that now games can be played from online and anywhere on the world, Melee has a unique storyline of seeing players like Armada and Amsa come from other places in the world and completely dominate players who we thought were the best. Also, just the reactions you can get, seeing your opponent, the crowd, and the commentators there live is something almost no other game has.
On March 19 2014 10:24 Frazzlehoon wrote: YOOOOOO KDJ. KEN. THIS IS SO CRAZY.
The craziest thing about this is that these two have been away from the scene for so long so it'll be interesting to see how they come back. Ken has been starting to make a comeback into minor tourneys, but KDJ hasn't been at a major in FOREVER.
Melee is the best competitive console game out there. Once you learn how technical and strategic it is, the world opens up even greater as there are countless things to master in that game.
AND another thing is that Melee thrives on being there live. You have to plug in your controller and be in front of a TV. Although its cool through technology and the internet that now games can be played from online and anywhere on the world, Melee has a unique storyline of seeing players like Armada and Amsa come from other places in the world and completely dominate players who we thought were the best. Also, just the reactions you can get, seeing your opponent, the crowd, and the commentators there live is something almost no other game has.
I can get behind a lot of this but KDJ had a strong showing last Apex, at least for Project M.
My knowledge of Smash extends only as far as the documentary, but I believe Liquid made an excellent choice with their pick-ups. The fighting game community has some occasional issues with professionalism in conduct, and both Ken and KDJ came off as individuals above that,
For somebody without a recent Nintendo console, is there a legal way to play this game (I can see that the ROM can be easily downloaded for use with an emulator, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal).
EDIT: I haven't really played any Smash titles at all.
On March 19 2014 11:24 althaz wrote: For somebody without a recent Nintendo console, is there a legal way to play this game (I can see that the ROM can be easily downloaded for use with an emulator, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal).
EDIT: I haven't really played any Smash titles at all.
Holy shit, all aboard the hype train. Two legendary names under a legendary team? Plus, if TL has a confidence in Smash, I guess I need to train harder.
wow this feels like it came out of the blue T.T Still, I'm always happy to see Liquid support more games especially seeing as I've heard a lot of good things about the smash community. Grats to both players and to liquid for the pickup!
On March 19 2014 11:24 althaz wrote: For somebody without a recent Nintendo console, is there a legal way to play this game (I can see that the ROM can be easily downloaded for use with an emulator, but I'm pretty sure that's illegal).
EDIT: I haven't really played any Smash titles at all.
Haven't logged into Teamliquid for a long time. Might need to start doing so again if they provide the same high quality content they provide for SC2 and Dota for Melee. So excited to see them getting into melee. This is huger to me than any tournament could be. I'm blown away.
On March 19 2014 01:39 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: Melee is a survivor. It fought slow declines, a "death" sequel, and the efforts of its creator to kill its competitive scene.
(Hot_Bid)
lol. I wonder where I've seen the exact same scenario...
edit: apparently it's not the same but the way the sentence was written made me grin a bit.
Blizzard tried to make SC2 competitive but it just took them a long time to get it right (arguably they still aren't there). Nintendo actively introduced anti-competitive "features" into Brawl to make it more "family friendly". Slightly different scenarios.
I literally started drooling and stared at the screen for at least 20 seconds. I couldn't breathe, and watched the trailer right after. <3 sc2, <3 melee. Liquid this is very weird, but has made my day, the best day of the year so far. Hopefully Ken and KDJ will return to their dominant form from 2006-2007.
I've constantly enjoyed watching Melee streams on Twitch just for the sake of it, and we even play some Brawl at work (not the same by a long shot, but still Smash Bros). Very excited to watch these guys going forward.
So sick! Never expected TL to form a Melee division. Quite the surprise. I'm really excited for MLG Anaheim! Not just one but two of my fav games this year! It will be my first time attending a pro Smash event. Been a fan of the game for many, many years & used to play with friends religiously that were pro level. Amazing to see SSBM prevailing as an eSport, I know it's been repeated a lot, but it can't be said enough. Brings much joy to my life, and makes my "gamer tag" even more relevant. lol xD
Well, THAT´s what i call an epic teaser, loved the vid! I used to play some smash brothers as well and always thought i was pretty decend at it....until i saw that smash brothers documentary. Really looking forward to it!
I remember watching Kenny on survivor back in highschool, such an awesome guy. Definitely of all the players featured in the documentary Ken and KDJ are of my favorites. Can't wait to see under the liquid tag. So damn stoked.
HOLY SHIT! This is insane! It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen announced on TL.
After I heard MLG was gonna have Melee this year, I rewatched The Smash Brothers documentary, so I'm extremely hyped. Try to get Armada before Alex Garfield creates a Melee team for Alliance and snatch him up. I don't think he's competing right now but I mean, neither was Ken right?
Go go go!
edit: Man, just thinking about this almost makes me tear up, thinking back at the amazing journey of the game and it's players. If I can get one wish, it would have to be that Isai comes back in all his humbleness, but with a newborn confidence in himself. He seems to be such an amazing guy, you can't help but wish him the absolute best. Also, he's amazing.
This is so fucking sweet. Can't wait to watch these guys at MLG. Great to see these 2 awesome games from different genre's merge through Liquid. I really like what Nazgul had to say how it reminds him of BroodWar, and it kinda makes me sad I miss the BroodWar scene not because of any "better game or dead game" shit just the nastalgia sake. I haven't played melee in awhile but I definitely feel the itch to play again! Guna hit up some of my friends and see if I can still play a smooth Marth
On March 19 2014 14:28 MiQ wrote: So this... but no LoL team? I don't get it.
I dont get it either but here is not the place to talk about that
I'm not sure if this is true for Teamliquid as an organization, but the people frequenting the site (especially back in BW) seem to be a little bit elitist. I'm not judging because I'm definitely like that too, but what I'm saying is that the elitism comes from an (over?)appreciation of deep and complex games, and though LoL might qualify when observed in a vacuum, when compared to Dota it's just lacking in that department. That doesn't have to be a negative, as it puts the emphasis on other aspects of the game which are equally competitive, but for an elitist it's not as compelling.
SSBM however certainly qualifies (just watch the documentary), so it fits in with the Teamliquid image.
Oh, and I also think TL simply doesn't want to branch out too much, so they're being very selective.
On March 19 2014 14:28 MiQ wrote: So this... but no LoL team? I don't get it.
Completely different animals. LoL is completely separate from SSBM in terms of entities. LoL isn't competing vs SSBM for a spot when diversifying because SSBM is a unique area all-together.
On March 19 2014 15:38 Arkitek wrote: So, we just picked up the SlayerS BoxeR of SSBM?!
Well, yes but BoxeR is super humble. Ken is extremely arrogant. There is a reason why a big part of the Smash community disliked him. It was not because he won a lot of tournaments, it was because of his arrogance. This is also why he was casted onto Survivor, because his arrogance made good TV (and also got him voted out when he tried to ditch Matty and Bob very poorly)
Not trying to take away from this though, so hype about this!
This is nuts.... Liquid you got a winner here, more like two winners. I cant see from here on how any e-sports franchise can move forward without a melee division in their lineup...
First I played SC2, then quit for dota 2. Then teamliquid started a dota 2 team. Now I started playing smash and look what happens. Stalking much?!? Hooray!
On March 19 2014 16:09 knatt wrote: First I played SC2, then quit for dota 2. Then teamliquid started a dota 2 team. Now I started playing smash and look what happens. Stalking much?!? Hooray!
So in other words the next game you choose decides the future of TL. Choose wisely.
I was just kinda like "whatever" but then I took time to watch the AMAZING "Smash Brothers" documentary and now I am SUPER excited about this. That documentary was sooooooo well done.
On March 19 2014 16:28 Polygamy wrote: I was just kinda like "whatever" but then I took time to watch the AMAZING "Smash Brothers" documentary and now I am SUPER excited about this. That documentary was sooooooo well done.
Seriously. It's a documentary that anybody whose interested in e-sports should watch.
So i started looking into ken a bit more and started watching the survivor series he's on. First time you see him properly he's with a hot chick in bra and panties. Then he gets her to eat a termite.
On March 19 2014 17:02 Omnishroud wrote: So i started looking into ken a bit more and started watching the survivor series he's on. First time you see him properly he's with a hot chick in bra and panties. Then he gets her to eat a termite.
Total boss.
I think he does pretty well on survivor too. I can't remember his exact placing though.
Wow, what the.... niiiiiiice! As SSMB has been a huge part of my childhood, I'm quite pumped to see more of this and moreover with Liquid players involved!
On March 19 2014 17:02 Omnishroud wrote: So i started looking into ken a bit more and started watching the survivor series he's on. First time you see him properly he's with a hot chick in bra and panties. Then he gets her to eat a termite.
Total boss.
I think he does pretty well on survivor too. I can't remember his exact placing though.
Looked it up briefly and if I'm reading this right he was 5th out of 18.
On March 19 2014 17:02 Omnishroud wrote: So i started looking into ken a bit more and started watching the survivor series he's on. First time you see him properly he's with a hot chick in bra and panties. Then he gets her to eat a termite.
Total boss.
I think he does pretty well on survivor too. I can't remember his exact placing though.
Looked it up briefly and if I'm reading this right he was 5th out of 18.
Yeah I just checked as well, that's right. I remembered he made it to the jury at least.
On March 19 2014 16:28 Polygamy wrote: I was just kinda like "whatever" but then I took time to watch the AMAZING "Smash Brothers" documentary and now I am SUPER excited about this. That documentary was sooooooo well done.
Seriously. It's a documentary that anybody whose interested in e-sports should watch.
Just to make it easier to find. The start is a bit slow, and the narrator misses the mark on the voice, but I'm enjoying it so far and its very well done.
On March 19 2014 16:28 Polygamy wrote: I was just kinda like "whatever" but then I took time to watch the AMAZING "Smash Brothers" documentary and now I am SUPER excited about this. That documentary was sooooooo well done.
Seriously. It's a documentary that anybody whose interested in e-sports should watch.
Just to make it easier to find. The start is a bit slow, and the narrator misses the mark on the voice, but I'm enjoying it so far and its very well done.
Finally watched the video to accompany the announcement. Would have really loved if they did a play on "Challenger Approaching" when it went into the part showcasing Liquid's different title divisions.
On March 19 2014 16:28 Polygamy wrote: I was just kinda like "whatever" but then I took time to watch the AMAZING "Smash Brothers" documentary and now I am SUPER excited about this. That documentary was sooooooo well done.
Seriously. It's a documentary that anybody whose interested in e-sports should watch.
Just to make it easier to find. The start is a bit slow, and the narrator misses the mark on the voice, but I'm enjoying it so far and its very well done.
The start really is a bit slow but it really sucks you in once your a lil bit into it haha
This is really awesome. I have played Smash for years off and on, its such a unique and incredible game. Then a few months ago my brother recommended this documentary and I have watched it multiple times since. It was the very first time that I saw a community so cool and passionate that it actually bummed me out I couldn't be a part of it. And now for Liquid to be picking up Ken and KoreanDJ, two of the absolute top in Smash.
Game!
edit: the fact that I dug up my old gamecube 2 weeks ago and started playing Smash with some friends makes this all the more special
I almost spit out my coffee when I saw this on the front page. I'm a huge fan of competitive smash and I can't believe the scene is starting to explode in popularity again like this. I thought I was already at my maximum hype level for Evo but apparently there's even more!
On March 20 2014 00:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: Does this mean there will be a smash liquipedia? I know a tlpd won't be possible (dota has none too), but would be cool nonetheless :D
On March 20 2014 00:34 The_Red_Viper wrote: Does this mean there will be a smash liquipedia? I know a tlpd won't be possible (dota has none too), but would be cool nonetheless :D
I think the problem with TLPD will be more about getting TON of historical data in. After that - maybe there are some nuances but overall fairly easy.
On March 19 2014 02:58 XaCez wrote: What in the what the what for how the what?
I might add my thoughts on this: What?
This is really amazing and makes TL even more of a nerdsite. And im really happy that this old game gets so much attention and is still loved so well by a community.
On March 20 2014 00:24 salito wrote: What sponsorship opportunities do you portend console players can create? They can't sell HyperX or Razer products.
Why not? Console players have PCs and play PC games as well. If SC2 gamers can sell Red Bull and Hot6ix, I don't see it being an issue.
On March 20 2014 00:24 salito wrote: What sponsorship opportunities do you portend console players can create? They can't sell HyperX or Razer products.
Razer sell a very cool Arcade Stick called the Atrox. Smash doesn't use Arcade stick but other fighting games do, so they can promote that I guess. There's also headphones.
On March 20 2014 05:51 SimDawg wrote: Jesus, the best thing about this announcement was it pointed me toward The Smash Brothers documentary.
If you haven't you need to watch it.
I think this is the biggest take away from this. The people who are skeptic of the decision probably haven't watched the doc. And the more people that watch the doc the better.
yeah the documentary kinda opened my eyes. what I thought was just a casual party game with some of my fav nintendo characters turned out to have so much depth and a really really wide skill spectrum which is really awesome. I like how it differs from other fighting games in that you could potentially die at 0% to a really quick combo and there are ways to weasel out of combos. I could be wrong but some KOF games I've seen there are times where it seems like the opponent couldn't really retaliate to a devastating combo because the button input was so precise or something.
Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
Also, no TL didn't start with SC2. TL wouldn't exist without brood war.
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
And games that are actually Competitive and are able to be wrote about.
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
And games that are actually Competitive and are able to be wrote about.
I was gonna say "games that are actually good" but i didn't wanna rustle too many jimmies.
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
And games that are actually Competitive and are able to be wrote about.
We write about LoL It's just not posted on the front page
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
And games that are actually Competitive and are able to be wrote about.
I was gonna say "games that are actually good" but i didn't wanna rustle too many jimmies.
That's what they said between the lines when they announced their Dota2 squad.
Did anyone try and enter this documentary in any film festivals? I mean really, I watch a lot of documentaries and it is so much better than the majority of them. I sent the link to my mom and even with no interest in gaming at all she got hooked right away.
Just watched the whole documentary and now I'm a big smash fan. It reminds me a lot of the old foreigner BW scene, very grassroots everyone knows each other and really thrives off each other. Smash seems like a really good fit for Liquid, I look forward to seeing where this goes!
On March 20 2014 00:24 salito wrote: What sponsorship opportunities do you portend console players can create? They can't sell HyperX or Razer products.
Are you trying to incite a "PC vs. Console" argument over a game that came out on a console well over 10 years ago, and still has a competitive scene?
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
And games that are actually Competitive and are able to be wrote about.
I was gonna say "games that are actually good" but i didn't wanna rustle too many jimmies.
Better to say games with a long lifespan. DOTA has been around for a decade, Starcraft is the same, SSBM has the same longevity. Talk to them when you're still playing LoL in 10 years.
What's amazing about Liquid is their focus on the community. These are games that have kept their various communities together for a decade. The players grew up on the game and have cultivated relationships and lifestyles around a game. It really is brilliant. It hits me, and I think it hits all gamers, because there's a whole generation of us now that grew up a part of all of this.
On March 20 2014 05:51 SimDawg wrote: Jesus, the best thing about this announcement was it pointed me toward The Smash Brothers documentary.
If you haven't you need to watch it.
I think this is the biggest take away from this. The people who are skeptic of the decision probably haven't watched the doc. And the more people that watch the doc the better.
I've honestly never played even one game of SSB, just one of those games my group of friends just didn't get into I guess. But this Documentary has me hooked. Watched the first 5 episodes into the wee hours of the morning yesterday and couldn't get it out of my head all day. Couldn't wait to get home today and watch the rest! Very well done from what I have seen so far.
From the time I was a kid, my obsession and passion when it came to video games was Melee. Then it was Starcraft and Melee. My two worlds have come together and I couldn't be more excited.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/2013_SSBM_Player_Rankings KDJ: #33 Ken: #100 They've gotta step it up and train hard, attend more tournaments and do some work if they wanna get up there with Mango, M2K, Hax, PPU, etc.
On March 20 2014 10:52 Airking990 wrote: http://www.ssbwiki.com/2013_SSBM_Player_Rankings KDJ: #33 Ken: #100 They've gotta step it up and train hard, attend more tournaments and do some work if they wanna get up there with Mango, M2K, Hax, PPU, etc.
All planned so we can have a second Smash doc about their return to the scene haha
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Team liquid picks up games they are passionate about.
And games that are actually Competitive and are able to be wrote about.
I was gonna say "games that are actually good" but i didn't wanna rustle too many jimmies.
Better to say games with a long lifespan. DOTA has been around for a decade, Starcraft is the same, SSBM has the same longevity. Talk to them when you're still playing LoL in 10 years.
What's amazing about Liquid is their focus on the community. These are games that have kept their various communities together for a decade. The players grew up on the game and have cultivated relationships and lifestyles around a game. It really is brilliant. It hits me, and I think it hits all gamers, because there's a whole generation of us now that grew up a part of all of this.
I believe not introducing LoL is decision based on many factors and you all oversimplified the situation.
Team Liquid Smash has a lot of training to do. They need to get back to their former glory and then some, as the top players will be in shape for MLG, and their level is much higher than Ken or KDJ's ever were, even in their prime.
Oh, and rumor has it, KirbyKaze and PPMD are about to be picked up by EG. KirbyKaze is right below the top player group, and PPMD is IN the untouchable top player group.
On March 20 2014 12:59 Signia wrote: Oh, and rumor has it, KirbyKaze and PPMD are about to be picked up by EG. KirbyKaze is right below the top player group, and PPMD is IN the untouchable top player group.
I saw the twitter/reddit rumours as well, but I'll wait and see before jumping to conclusions. That's being said, it seems like typical TL/EG, TL picks players that fit while EG goes for the big guns. We'll see if the rumours are true. At the very least it generates interest in smash and picking the game up.
On March 20 2014 13:09 Thrillz wrote: I saw the twitter/reddit rumours as well, but I'll wait and see before jumping to conclusions. That's being said, it seems like typical TL/EG, TL picks players that fit while EG goes for the big guns. We'll see if the rumours are true. At the very least it generates interest in smash and picking the game up.
Uh TL picking up ken and kdj is more similar to EG picking up jaedong than anything. Players that were monsters back in their time yet are starting "anew" again.
On March 20 2014 10:52 Airking990 wrote: http://www.ssbwiki.com/2013_SSBM_Player_Rankings KDJ: #33 Ken: #100 They've gotta step it up and train hard, attend more tournaments and do some work if they wanna get up there with Mango, M2K, Hax, PPU, etc.
That list is particularly funny because right after it was released, Ken beat Fly Amanita (rank 21) and HomeMadeWaffles (rank 55) at Kings of Cali 3. So like TL's own power ranks, it's very much prone to error haha.
On March 20 2014 13:09 Thrillz wrote: I saw the twitter/reddit rumours as well, but I'll wait and see before jumping to conclusions. That's being said, it seems like typical TL/EG, TL picks players that fit while EG goes for the big guns. We'll see if the rumours are true. At the very least it generates interest in smash and picking the game up.
Uh TL picking up ken and kdj is more similar to EG picking up jaedong than anything. Players that were monsters back in their time yet are starting "anew" again.
Super stoked to see more melee!
I disagree, it's not like picking up JD because JD was still pretty good at BW and was on the rise on SC2, which was a completely new game. Ken and KDJ were legends in melee and are returning to melee after being away (a long time for Ken especially). It seems more like picking up Boxer in BW or some other old school legend, although I give much better chances for Ken/KDJ to return to high calibur.
This is pretty damn sick. Like a lot of people, I first heard about the SSBM community when I watched the documentary last year, and I saw so many parallels between their experiences and my own in competitive gaming.
SSBM is a true grassroots E-sport. I don't understand shit about the game but it seems pretty damn exciting to watch.
On March 20 2014 21:48 FuRong wrote: This is pretty damn sick. Like a lot of people, I first heard about the SSBM community when I watched the documentary last year, and I saw so many parallels between their experiences and my own in competitive gaming.
SSBM is a true grassroots E-sport. I don't understand shit about the game but it seems pretty damn exciting to watch.
You should play it some time! It's really fun and simple to get into, but really hard to play at competitive level! If you don't want to play you could *cough* use dolphin *cough*.
Watched Ken's stream yesterday, awesome guy, lots of fun, probably most entertaining stream I've watched in a while and I didnt' follow smash ever and I dont know anything about the game. Super fun game to watch even for newbs and I even thought about buying a gamecube and the game o_o despite never playing console games. Exciting new direction for Liquid
I have conducted the first interview with Ken and KoreanDJ since joining Liquid on Tuesday. The interview includes why they decided to come back to Smash, what makes Liquid so special, and if they can come back to win EVO and MLG Anaheim.
Ken says he believes he has a "shot at winning EVO".
Ken 'Ken' Hoang: The only thing that truly brings my back are Team Liquid and my fans. Of course also the competition since I'm a very competitive person. I think if any other team asked me to play Smash again I would have probably said no. I'm just a huge Team Liquid fan. I think KDJ and I will make a perfect fit to TL.
Daniel 'KoreanDJ' Jung: I had been going through a hiatus with Smash for several years. Joining the team has awaken the competitive side within me that I haven't felt in such a long time. It really feels amazing to join a prestigious team. The momentum that Melee has been receiving over the past year is phenomenal. With EVO hosting a Melee tournament and the documentary featuring Melee's awesome community, I feel very motivated to return to the scene.
Why come back now? How important was joining Liquid part of your return?
Hoang: Liquid is one of the most important reasons I'm coming back. It's just ever since I was a kid I've been on Teamliquid watching Brood War ProLeague. I've been a fan of BW ever since it came out and StarCraft 2 in general. I'm just a big fan of esports in general. Some people like football, I just like watching StarCraft instead. So when Liquid came to me, if anything it felt like an honor being apart of Liquid.
It actually feels amazing, I just hope I am able to perform well enough to not let them down. I'm just going to try my best. I feel like Liquid really isn't even a team, they've already treated me like family. They should just change their name to Family Liquid.
Jung: I was planning on joining back to the Smash scene. When Team Liquid offered to pick up Smash and asked me to join their team, I instantly knew that was the time for me to return to Smash.
What does it mean to you to be liquid's first Smash/fighting game player? Do you feel pressured?
Hoang: I would be lying if I said I didn't feel pressured. I still feel pressured coming back since I was once the undisputed champion. However it also makes me want to try harder to try to represent Liquid at a high level.
Jung: I don't feel any pressure, I view this more of an opportunity. I am honored to be given this opportunity from Team Liquid, and I will give it my all. I feel I don't call myself a fighting game player since I don't attend major fighting game related tournaments, but I like to play lots of different fighting games so I can experience a diverse range of metagames. How one views their options in Tekken is vastly different than how one views their options in Street Fighter IV. I play lots of different fighting games to challenge myself. I will consider attending more fighting game related events in the future.
On March 21 2014 02:46 Slasher wrote: I have conducted the first interview with Ken and KoreanDJ since joining Liquid on Tuesday. The interview includes why they decided to come back to Smash, what makes Liquid so special, and if they can come back to win EVO and MLG Anaheim.
Ken says he believes he has a "shot at winning EVO".
Ken 'Ken' Hoang: The only thing that truly brings my back are Team Liquid and my fans. Of course also the competition since I'm a very competitive person. I think if any other team asked me to play Smash again I would have probably said no. I'm just a huge Team Liquid fan. I think KDJ and I will make a perfect fit to TL.
Daniel 'KoreanDJ' Jung: I had been going through a hiatus with Smash for several years. Joining the team has awaken the competitive side within me that I haven't felt in such a long time. It really feels amazing to join a prestigious team. The momentum that Melee has been receiving over the past year is phenomenal. With EVO hosting a Melee tournament and the documentary featuring Melee's awesome community, I feel very motivated to return to the scene.
Why come back now? How important was joining Liquid part of your return?
Hoang: Liquid is one of the most important reasons I'm coming back. It's just ever since I was a kid I've been on Teamliquid watching Brood War ProLeague. I've been a fan of BW ever since it came out and StarCraft 2 in general. I'm just a big fan of esports in general. Some people like football, I just like watching StarCraft instead. So when Liquid came to me, if anything it felt like an honor being apart of Liquid.
It actually feels amazing, I just hope I am able to perform well enough to not let them down. I'm just going to try my best. I feel like Liquid really isn't even a team, they've already treated me like family. They should just change their name to Family Liquid.
Jung: I was planning on joining back to the Smash scene. When Team Liquid offered to pick up Smash and asked me to join their team, I instantly knew that was the time for me to return to Smash.
What does it mean to you to be liquid's first Smash/fighting game player? Do you feel pressured?
Hoang: I would be lying if I said I didn't feel pressured. I still feel pressured coming back since I was once the undisputed champion. However it also makes me want to try harder to try to represent Liquid at a high level.
Jung: I don't feel any pressure, I view this more of an opportunity. I am honored to be given this opportunity from Team Liquid, and I will give it my all. I feel I don't call myself a fighting game player since I don't attend major fighting game related tournaments, but I like to play lots of different fighting games so I can experience a diverse range of metagames. How one views their options in Tekken is vastly different than how one views their options in Street Fighter IV. I play lots of different fighting games to challenge myself. I will consider attending more fighting game related events in the future.
Guys. What-e-ver you do, DONT MISS THE DOCUMENTARY: The Smash Brothers Its pure gold, its epic, its very informative, very well done, cant praise it enough... GO GO GO GO
On March 21 2014 02:29 joshie0808 wrote: Watched Ken's stream yesterday, awesome guy, lots of fun, probably most entertaining stream I've watched in a while and I didnt' follow smash ever and I dont know anything about the game. Super fun game to watch even for newbs and I even thought about buying a gamecube and the game o_o despite never playing console games. Exciting new direction for Liquid
I never played any console games ever until I found Melee back in late 2009. The best choice I ever made was starting playing this game.
It's different because you get tons of irl friends from playing since the online is very lacking. The tournaments happen often and are always a blast!
Smash Brothers? Isn't this some console game? Is this some joke I don't get? o.O And why isn't this hidden, when I only have selected SC2 and BW as filter? So confused right now...
On March 21 2014 05:15 Caladan wrote: Smash Brothers? Isn't this some console game? Is this some joke I don't get? o.O And why isn't this hidden, when I only have selected SC2 and BW as filter? So confused right now...
Quo Vadis, TL.net?
This isn't hidden because it's a new community announcement in the category "Teamliquid" as opposed to a specific game category
On March 21 2014 05:15 Caladan wrote: Smash Brothers? Isn't this some console game? Is this some joke I don't get? o.O And why isn't this hidden, when I only have selected SC2 and BW as filter? So confused right now...
Quo Vadis, TL.net?
Still way better than bandwagoning every Blizzard game that comes out like Blizzard is paying us. I just wish there were more smash streams
On March 21 2014 05:15 Caladan wrote: Smash Brothers? Isn't this some console game? Is this some joke I don't get? o.O And why isn't this hidden, when I only have selected SC2 and BW as filter? So confused right now...
On March 21 2014 02:56 alukarD wrote: Guys. What-e-ver you do, DONT MISS THE DOCUMENTARY: The Smash Brothers Its pure gold, its epic, its very informative, very well done, cant praise it enough... GO GO GO GO
I've seen the documentary before, one of the reasons why I started getting back into smash back in December...XD
On March 21 2014 05:15 Caladan wrote: Smash Brothers? Isn't this some console game? Is this some joke I don't get? o.O And why isn't this hidden, when I only have selected SC2 and BW as filter? So confused right now...
On March 21 2014 05:15 Caladan wrote: Smash Brothers? Isn't this some console game? Is this some joke I don't get? o.O And why isn't this hidden, when I only have selected SC2 and BW as filter? So confused right now...
Quo Vadis, TL.net?
As far as I know, there is netplay on PC via emulator since the game came out 12 years ago, so it still can count as a PC game, and you can reserve your console bashing. As if the platform the game is on means anything to the gameplay of the game itself, especially to a competitive game that has been played at high levels for well over a decade.
Great! Never thought I'd see the day this would happen... Been lurking on these forums from when CombatEX was the rage, made an account yesterday because of this...
I think the story of pikachu/jiggs jump tiers (and sheik falling form #1) is my favorite in melee. Basically axe single handedly raised pikachu from link level to competitive with other high tiers, kinda like how jiggs went from a complete joke to "broken" after king/mango and like 4 straight jiggs dittos finals with mango/hbox.
I hope TL features Melee streams in the near future. twitch.tv/vgbootcamp will be streaming a big tournament this Saturday and Sunday and I'm sure being a featured stream would bolster its numbers considerably.
If you want that to happen, the easiest way is to be proactive by getting vgbootcamp to make a TL account, link their stream to the account on TL, and also submit a calender event for the tournament. Relevant links:
Note that in some cases, TL staff will make an account and link the stream without the organization having to register. That may be the best course of action here, in which case you should beg an interested mod to do that.
Considering the admins are batshit crazy about SSB to the point of open-inviting anyone to TLHQ to play, picking up 2 players for a game with little to no casual scene and is old as hell.
I'd say there was a fair chance of some Melee being featured / self-pushed onto the featured events list.
Im pretty sure their interests are in raising SSB interest.
"little to no casual scene" isnt an insult btw, its just melee doesnt have much of a scene outside of tournaments / weekly smash-ups where people actively travel hours on end to attend them, that isnt really casual by todays standards
On March 22 2014 04:36 Omnishroud wrote: Considering the admins are batshit crazy about SSB to the point of open-inviting anyone to TLHQ to play, picking up 2 players for a game with little to no casual scene and is old as hell.
I'd say there was a fair chance of some Melee being featured / self-pushed onto the featured events list.
Im pretty sure their interests are in raising SSB interest.
"little to no casual scene" isnt an insult btw, its just melee doesnt have much of a scene outside of tournaments / weekly smash-ups where people actively travel hours on end to attend them, that isnt really casual by todays standards
The benefit Smash Bros has is most people probably have a Gamecube, which means they have melee. So if people start watching the game being played......BOOM! The casual player scene is back. People will start bringing out their old Gamecubes and play again. And even in the slim chance that doesn't happen, it will still be okay. StarCraft 2 has a pretty small "casual" player scene compared to other eSports, and it's still one of the top 5 eSports. Even when it was top dog back in 2010 and 2011, the casual player scene was incredibly small for the high viewer count. And if you're talking non-player casual, then StarCraft 2 likely has one of the largest non-player based viewer counts (based on comparatively low number of players that are active on ladder, it would be ignorant to believe that the viewer count is solely player based.). So I don't really see the same problem you see. I think the biggest problem that's going to arise is if the new Smash Bros is better or as good as people think Melee is, are they going to stick with Melee or switch or both?
this is the greatest announcement I've ever heard on team liquid. I play both games religiously and that's all I pour my heart and soul into. I'm so glad that I can see my 2 favorite games on team liquid. I really want to be a player on the team now lol.
On March 20 2014 06:25 iGrepair wrote: Here is my problem. Team Liquid started with SC2 (essentially), then they branched into Dota 2 and now SSBM. What is missing? League of Legends. I assume the reason being is due to the fact the SC2 community hates League of Legends and so TeamLiquid is being stubborn about adding a LoL team. LoL is a great game and is far more successful as an e-sport. If e-sport teams want to survive they have to adapt and right now everyones adapting to the popularity of LoL until blizzard gets their shit together Liquid should do so also.
Same reason we don't sponsor CoD players, Teamliquid was never about preaching to the masses.
Personally i'm not in to this sort of games at all but i really admire the skill and technic that is required to play at toplevel, it's great for the esport that we got different types of games we can follow.
Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
On March 22 2014 21:14 Arnstein wrote: Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
Nope, basically no support from Nintendo. In fact, they have tried to stop tournaments from being streamed in the past. Brawl sucked as a competitive game, so there is a mod called Project M which tried to "correct" Brawl to be more competitive.
On March 22 2014 21:14 Arnstein wrote: Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
Haha, no. Nintendo has actively tried to prevent smash from being a competative game. They've tried many times to stop tournaments from streaming, including MLG. Not only that, they removed all the mechanics that made melee really fast (wavedashing, l-cancling, ect.) for Brawl and added things like random tripping that can't be turned off and lowered the overall pace of the game. Sakuri himself even said that he didn't like that smash was played competitively, he wants it to be a family friendly casual game and the new smash bros will be more of that.
On March 22 2014 21:14 Arnstein wrote: Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
Haha, no. Nintendo has actively tried to prevent smash from being a competative game. They've tried many times to stop tournaments from streaming, including MLG. Not only that, they removed all the mechanics that made melee really fast (wavedashing, l-cancling, ect.) for Brawl and added things like random tripping that can't be turned off and lowered the overall pace of the game. Sakuri himself even said that he didn't like that smash was played competitively, he wants it to be a family friendly casual game and the new smash bros will be more of that.
Why?!? I mean, I love Nintendo and their games, but sometimes I just don't understand how stupid they can be.
On March 22 2014 21:14 Arnstein wrote: Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
Haha, no. Nintendo has actively tried to prevent smash from being a competative game. They've tried many times to stop tournaments from streaming, including MLG. Not only that, they removed all the mechanics that made melee really fast (wavedashing, l-cancling, ect.) for Brawl and added things like random tripping that can't be turned off and lowered the overall pace of the game. Sakuri himself even said that he didn't like that smash was played competitively, he wants it to be a family friendly casual game and the new smash bros will be more of that.
Why?!? I mean, I love Nintendo and their games, but sometimes I just don't understand how stupid they can be.
Control, the designer must of been a casual =P. Problem is that any game can be taken to a competitive level(COMPETITIVE TIC TAC TOE MOTHER FER!), just many aren't worth it to do so.
On March 22 2014 21:14 Arnstein wrote: Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
Haha, no. Nintendo has actively tried to prevent smash from being a competative game. They've tried many times to stop tournaments from streaming, including MLG. Not only that, they removed all the mechanics that made melee really fast (wavedashing, l-cancling, ect.) for Brawl and added things like random tripping that can't be turned off and lowered the overall pace of the game. Sakuri himself even said that he didn't like that smash was played competitively, he wants it to be a family friendly casual game and the new smash bros will be more of that.
Why?!? I mean, I love Nintendo and their games, but sometimes I just don't understand how stupid they can be.
I think the main reason is to maintain their "family friendly" image. Nintendo is scared that competitive scene will scare off casuals from buying the game. They want it to be a casual game, and a pro scene means it isn't that.
On March 22 2014 21:14 Arnstein wrote: Do pro players in Melee co-operate with Nintendo on the new Smash Bros? Do they ask pro's for advice etc? They really should, as a new really good competetive Smash Bros would be epic!
Haha, no. Nintendo has actively tried to prevent smash from being a competative game. They've tried many times to stop tournaments from streaming, including MLG. Not only that, they removed all the mechanics that made melee really fast (wavedashing, l-cancling, ect.) for Brawl and added things like random tripping that can't be turned off and lowered the overall pace of the game. Sakuri himself even said that he didn't like that smash was played competitively, he wants it to be a family friendly casual game and the new smash bros will be more of that.
Why?!? I mean, I love Nintendo and their games, but sometimes I just don't understand how stupid they can be.
Well, they've taken Tripping out of Smash 4. That's a step forward. And they're getting input from Namco for Smash 4, and Namco does know competitive fighters pretty well with Tekken and Soul Calibur.
On the other hand, they took out edge hogging, a very big tool used in a lot of matches.
They would just be the same thing though. Easy to learn hard to master, they just think when the teenage boy gets gud and starts smashing mum and dad people are going to get pissed.
You really think anyone without any concept of Melee's mechanics / scene is not going to enjoy themselves? They sure as hell wont be wavedashing / lcanceling / whatever either.
On March 23 2014 09:35 nikj wrote: Couldn't they just have a "party mode" and a "competitive mode" keep everyone happy? Is this too hard to accomplish?
I think Smash Melee itself for many people only was a party mode. That is why it is such a perfect game and I wish game designers would learn that it is entirely possible to combine the two.
I don't really understand the distinction between the two tbh. In the end the game has to be fun (party mode) and if it has enough depth there will be a interesting competitive scene aswell, no?
On March 23 2014 09:35 nikj wrote: Couldn't they just have a "party mode" and a "competitive mode" keep everyone happy? Is this too hard to accomplish?
I think Smash Melee itself for many people only was a party mode. That is why it is such a perfect game and I wish game designers would learn that it is entirely possible to combine the two.
Naz, if this whole ssbm liquid team was your idea...
I'm gonna come highfive you and buy you a beer next time I visit tlhq. You awesome son of a bitch.
Seriously though, who came up with this? I've just started getting back into melee and now this happens! Too perfect.
On March 22 2014 04:36 Omnishroud wrote: Considering the admins are batshit crazy about SSB to the point of open-inviting anyone to TLHQ to play, picking up 2 players for a game with little to no casual scene and is old as hell.
I'd say there was a fair chance of some Melee being featured / self-pushed onto the featured events list.
Im pretty sure their interests are in raising SSB interest.
"little to no casual scene" isnt an insult btw, its just melee doesnt have much of a scene outside of tournaments / weekly smash-ups where people actively travel hours on end to attend them, that isnt really casual by todays standards
The benefit Smash Bros has is most people probably have a Gamecube, which means they have melee. So if people start watching the game being played......BOOM! The casual player scene is back. People will start bringing out their old Gamecubes and play again. And even in the slim chance that doesn't happen, it will still be okay. StarCraft 2 has a pretty small "casual" player scene compared to other eSports, and it's still one of the top 5 eSports. Even when it was top dog back in 2010 and 2011, the casual player scene was incredibly small for the high viewer count. And if you're talking non-player casual, then StarCraft 2 likely has one of the largest non-player based viewer counts (based on comparatively low number of players that are active on ladder, it would be ignorant to believe that the viewer count is solely player based.). So I don't really see the same problem you see. I think the biggest problem that's going to arise is if the new Smash Bros is better or as good as people think Melee is, are they going to stick with Melee or switch or both?
Indeed, I play SSBM with a group of 6 or so people in college and we play for hours. I'm the only one who really wants to improve to a competitive level; the rest play casually. I know at least one other room on my floor who plays SSBM as well. A lot of college kids seem to have GCs because they're hard to break and super fun
On March 23 2014 09:35 nikj wrote: Couldn't they just have a "party mode" and a "competitive mode" keep everyone happy? Is this too hard to accomplish?
I think Smash Melee itself for many people only was a party mode. That is why it is such a perfect game and I wish game designers would learn that it is entirely possible to combine the two.
yea, this is a thing that has bothered me for the entire like 12 years that i've been in the Melee scene. in person, i've pretty much never met someone who didn't enjoy Melee, regardless of their level of knowledge or skill or competitiveness. but online, it's not super uncommon to see people talk about how Wavedashing and L-Canceling and all the advanced techniques ruin the game for casual players, and how it was never meant to be a fighting game and the players just got overzealous with a bunch of glitches and tricks to break the game.
and all it is, for the most part, is your standard internet bandwagon-ing and echo-chambering, but it still bothers me a lot, because that totally discredits the magic of the game, which is that it was designed with such intricate and thoughtful core mechanics that it was bound to appeal to everyone from the most casual to the most competitive playerbases. that's not an accident, and it doesn't come down to a bunch of unintended exploits. the majority of what i consider to be the main reasons Melee is such a great competitive game are also the reasons that it works so well for casual players.
free movement, for instance, is a huge departure from most fighting games. and having been around tons of friends who are more casual gamers, the limited movement and double-tap inputs in something like Street Fighter or Soul Calibur are things that i've heard a lot of complaint and frustration about—even from people that really like fighting games in general. so the free and relatively intuitive movement mechanics on the ground and in the air become a really big benefit for the average player, because it lets them go exactly where and how they want to go, without feeling like they're struggling against intentional limitations. and movement also ends up being one of the most important aspects of competitive Melee; it's most of the neutral game, essential to freeform combos, and more often than not, it gets used for defense instead of blocking or dodging. and the movement also becomes a big way for players to express themselves. you can identify plenty of players by their movement.
alot of defensive mechanics are also at play, sort of behind the scenes, to make the average player in a casual match never feel totally overwhelmed by their opponent, even if they don't really understand the interactions completely: Crouch Canceling, which reduces the damage, stun and knockback taken if you get hit while crouching; DI, which at its most basic, will help you not die from big knockout moves if you're holding up and towards the stage—which is really intuitive, since casual players tend to want to always be moving foward and recovering with any character tends to revolve around Up+Bing towards the stage; Invincibility frames—during most Up+Bs, when you grab the ledge, when you Tech or get up from a knockdown, when you Roll or Spotdodge; huge range on Ledge Attacks and Wakeup Attacks to make them somewhat safe (at low levels) since casual players will often miss techs and seldom aren't hitting A or B.
even L-Canceling has its origin as a "behind-the-scenes" defensive mechanic: in SSB64, if you whiffed an aerial attack close to the ground, you could Shield as soon as you landed (or a bit preemptively) to cover yourself, and it would cancel all of the normal landing lag, so you wouldn't get punished so hard for missing. that mechanic was carried straight into Melee, but with a more precise timing window, and only canceling half the lag instead of all of it. but the idea is the same: you're allowed to Shield and protect yourself after aerial attacks. and i actually have, on my copy of Melee, a code for characters to flash white on successful L-Cancels. and i see my casual friends do it at usually 6-7 times per match, even though they have no idea what it is and don't care.
and again, these really specific defensive mechanics are vital to competitive Melee also: Crouch Canceling is one of the big differentiators between good players and decent ones, and alot of matchup strategy revolves around whether or not your opponent is at a low enough percent to Crouch Cancel your approaches; DI is probably the only thing more important than movement, being the reason that every combo is necessarily different and reactive, and giving skilled players the survivability they have; players are really good at using and abusing those little moments of invincibility—especially from the ledge; and L-Canceling obviously is where competitive Melee gets most of its speed from.
Melee's gameplay has evolved a ton in the competitive scene, of course, and there are a bunch of advanced techniques and tricks that don't really fall under the umbrella of basic core game mechanics. but even if you didn't have all of that stuff, the core mechanics were enough to make a game that was great for casual play with friends and competitive play. so it made me really sad to see the design philosophy in Brawl and how the developers felt that there was some irreconcilable dichotomy between casual and competitive in terms of game design. there isn't. good mechanics are good mechanics. Melee fits perfectly with both worlds. and other games can do that too.
I've been playing casually at work recently (Project M) and it will be nice to finally have a team to root for. Plus Fox and Marth are my two favorite characters
I've never been that interested in the smash scene, but watching the smash brothers episodes really shows me how interesting and deep the game really is! Now I have to apologize to my friend that I've ragged on for several years, since he plays it competitively...
On March 20 2014 00:24 salito wrote: What sponsorship opportunities do you portend console players can create? They can't sell HyperX or Razer products.
Well, there's these things that transcend platforms, that are currently sponsoring; not only almost every single tournament, but also sponsoring many teams. It's called food products. Energy drinks, soda companies, etc. I'd imagine that even smash players drink and eat, as alien as they are to us PC gamers.
You also have to remember that people have computers. Even smash players. How do you think they post here? They may want to buy peripherals for that, and now these companies have exposure to an essentially untapped market, simply for sponsoring TL on it's SC2/DotA2 teams. It adds extra value to your investment.
this is amazing!, i always thought that Teamliquid had to do a SSBM Team, because it's one of the most unique fighting games there are, also the competitive gameplay is based on bugs, mechanics and creative ways to play the game to get success, now it's is true, i hope TL add live streams and tournament about Melee and a section for this game.
So finally watched the documentary and honestly I feel like Nintendo really needed to take the oportunity its given. Take a play from Valves book. Dota was great game with a large community. Valve decides to make a new Dota, and does it do? Make pretty much the same game with better featuares for spectators and a few minor changes. If Nintendo did the same with meele, I'm sure it would sell tens of thousand of system just for the one game. And then they could have Meele 2 being played for the next 10 years. From a bussiness perpective a game that raises 90k in donations just so people can watch a torney should be enough of a signal. But instead, Nintendo tries to avoid this sort of community. Hell I would even go as far as saying Meele is a great game for selling hats and such cosmetics. Its a cash cow that Nintendo doesn't know how to harvest.
On March 27 2014 20:11 Paluth wrote: So finally watched the documentary and honestly I feel like Nintendo really needed to take the oportunity its given. Take a play from Valves book. Dota was great game with a large community. Valve decides to make a new Dota, and does it do? Make pretty much the same game with better featuares for spectators and a few minor changes. If Nintendo did the same with meele, I'm sure it would sell tens of thousand of system just for the one game. And then they could have Meele 2 being played for the next 10 years. From a bussiness perpective a game that raises 90k in donations just so people can watch a torney should be enough of a signal. But instead, Nintendo tries to avoid this sort of community. Hell I would even go as far as saying Meele is a great game for selling hats and such cosmetics. Its a cash cow that Nintendo doesn't know how to harvest.
Its not that they don't know how to harvest, but rather they didn't want to harvest it. Basically most of the nintendo sells come from Japan, hence why there are so many games that are out in japan that never make it to the US or europe. What happened is that nintendo is slowing losing to the next gen so they have finally decided that they will get into esports. Thats the only reason that the new Smash is said to be in between Melee and Brawl in terms of speed, and thats why nintendo is finally showing some signs that they want to keep growing the melee community. Hence why MLG has brought back melee. Even though the Wii was great in sales and nintendo had no reason to change their minds on how to run their business the Wii U has been a flop compared to the sales of the PS4 and XboxOne.
On March 27 2014 20:11 Paluth wrote: So finally watched the documentary and honestly I feel like Nintendo really needed to take the oportunity its given. Take a play from Valves book. Dota was great game with a large community. Valve decides to make a new Dota, and does it do? Make pretty much the same game with better featuares for spectators and a few minor changes. If Nintendo did the same with meele, I'm sure it would sell tens of thousand of system just for the one game. And then they could have Meele 2 being played for the next 10 years. From a bussiness perpective a game that raises 90k in donations just so people can watch a torney should be enough of a signal. But instead, Nintendo tries to avoid this sort of community. Hell I would even go as far as saying Meele is a great game for selling hats and such cosmetics. Its a cash cow that Nintendo doesn't know how to harvest.
They had that option with Brawl. They decided to focus on the much larger casual scene as it would bring in more money. Outside Japan, Nintendo is behind every other game company in terms of distribution and DLC and whatnot. They much prefer to make their game, sell it, and move on. Inside Japan, they were still the dominant game maker until recently. So they never really had a reason to change their focus. They have seen at least some of the benefits of fostering a competitive scene (by allowing Melee broadcasts), but whether they decide to cater to us in 4 is a different beast altogether. It could be argued they wouldn't make enough money from catering to a competitive scene to cover the cost of doing so.
On March 27 2014 20:11 Paluth wrote: So finally watched the documentary and honestly I feel like Nintendo really needed to take the oportunity its given. Take a play from Valves book. Dota was great game with a large community. Valve decides to make a new Dota, and does it do? Make pretty much the same game with better featuares for spectators and a few minor changes. If Nintendo did the same with meele, I'm sure it would sell tens of thousand of system just for the one game. And then they could have Meele 2 being played for the next 10 years. From a bussiness perpective a game that raises 90k in donations just so people can watch a torney should be enough of a signal. But instead, Nintendo tries to avoid this sort of community. Hell I would even go as far as saying Meele is a great game for selling hats and such cosmetics. Its a cash cow that Nintendo doesn't know how to harvest.
They had that option with Brawl. They decided to focus on the much larger casual scene as it would bring in more money. Outside Japan, Nintendo is behind every other game company in terms of distribution and DLC and whatnot. They much prefer to make their game, sell it, and move on. Inside Japan, they were still the dominant game maker until recently. So they never really had a reason to change their focus. They have seen at least some of the benefits of fostering a competitive scene (by allowing Melee broadcasts), but whether they decide to cater to us in 4 is a different beast altogether. It could be argued they wouldn't make enough money from catering to a competitive scene to cover the cost of doing so.
Ya but it's senseless to assume they're mutually exclusive. One of the beauties of melee was the ability to be played as a competitive game and as a casual one just the same. Brawl wasn't so much "not doing things to cater to competitive" as much as it was "doing things on purpose to make sure competitive DOESN'T work".
Yes, I know. They decided to focus on the casual crowd, and to prove they liked the casual crowd better they tried to prevent competitive players from enjoying the game so they wouldn't ruin the "party fun".
So, is any content being planned, or is it just going to be picking up Ken and KDJ and seeing where it goes from there?
What about Ice? He won a single set against Mango and Leffen and that's about it.
He's won more than one set vs Leffen and he has taken games from Armada multiple times. He beat Hax convincingly at EVO.
I don't see why that makes him anywhere near top 5 or 6, which is the discussion. Okay he's beaten Leffen a few times. It's nice that he's taken games off Armada but without a set win, it doesn't really matter. Hax isn't really relevant to top 5 even back when he was playing Falcon.
On March 27 2014 20:11 Paluth wrote: So finally watched the documentary and honestly I feel like Nintendo really needed to take the oportunity its given. Take a play from Valves book. Dota was great game with a large community. Valve decides to make a new Dota, and does it do? Make pretty much the same game with better featuares for spectators and a few minor changes. If Nintendo did the same with meele, I'm sure it would sell tens of thousand of system just for the one game. And then they could have Meele 2 being played for the next 10 years. From a bussiness perpective a game that raises 90k in donations just so people can watch a torney should be enough of a signal. But instead, Nintendo tries to avoid this sort of community. Hell I would even go as far as saying Meele is a great game for selling hats and such cosmetics. Its a cash cow that Nintendo doesn't know how to harvest.
Its not that they don't know how to harvest, but rather they didn't want to harvest it. Basically most of the nintendo sells come from Japan, hence why there are so many games that are out in japan that never make it to the US or europe. What happened is that nintendo is slowing losing to the next gen so they have finally decided that they will get into esports. Thats the only reason that the new Smash is said to be in between Melee and Brawl in terms of speed, and thats why nintendo is finally showing some signs that they want to keep growing the melee community. Hence why MLG has brought back melee. Even though the Wii was great in sales and nintendo had no reason to change their minds on how to run their business the Wii U has been a flop compared to the sales of the PS4 and XboxOne.
The Wii U "flopped" for a plethora of different reasons (in comparison to other next gen, I personally love my Wii U). But part of the awesomeness of Melee is attributed to the fact that Nintendo wanted nothing to do with it. The community took it for what it was (an incredibly fun game to play), and ran with it.
There has since been over a decade of innovation and a community that has been bred solely on the passion of its players. I was at NSA2 this past weekend, and believe me when I say that the game has come this far because of how much the players love it. If Nintendo really wanted to invest in Melee as much as some other devs invest in their games, I'm not sure if we'd have a community as hype as it is.
relax harioo, the "Ice." thing is somewhat of an ongoing joke.
but you shouldn't underestimate ice like that, he's a top10 contender for sure and he's still been getting better so far. But i don't think this would be the place to discuss this...
On April 01 2014 07:55 Yomi-no-Kuni wrote: relax harioo, the "Ice." thing is somewhat of an ongoing joke.
but you shouldn't underestimate ice like that, he's a top10 contender for sure and he's still been getting better so far. But i don't think this would be the place to discuss this...
@tofucake: YHES!, really looking forward to it
He's the third best player in Europe. He's gotten top 10 in the last two international tournaments. Yeah he's really good he's just not top 5.
EPT
I am really excited that we have branched off towards the SSBM competitive scene. I am happy to have Ken “Sephiroth” Hoang and Daniel “KDJ” Jung to be a part of Team Liquid. I have been following the smash scene for quite a while now and these two are definitely some of my favorite players to watch. Being a big Smash enthusiast, I can’t wait to meet these two in person and play some friendly games (hopefully it won’t be too rough). After watching the Smash documentary I know that both of these guys show great dedication and passion for the game and I can see a bright future for both of them by being a part of Liquid. The hype just got more real now and I can’t wait to watch these two play under the Liquid tag.
I'm very happy to see melee grow and for Liquid to get a team! I played SSBM a lot myself back in 2002 and several times since. Watching SSBM at the highest level is extremely entertaining and I recommend all SC2 fans and check out future events and enjoy the quality 'micro'.
SSBM is a game built on speed, creativity, and emotion, a beautiful accident with a competitive scene that was never anticipated by its players or publisher. It is a game forged in living room couches and friends' basements, on tiny CRT monitors and $5 money matches. It is a game built on mechanical and mental skill with ten year veteran players who still smash every week and care about which coast of the United States you grew up on. 
![[image loading]](http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/WOODY_01a04d_663436.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/listen_to_yourself.png)
