|
|
Sorry, I didn't mean to claim authority by it.
|
lol No need to apologize for it, you outgear my monk by a lot, and I would kill for some of that stuff. We do have the same bracers though  Ordos is a beautiful thing.
|
On January 18 2014 05:38 OrchidThief wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 05:33 farvacola wrote:On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well. Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.) I haven't played SoO, I stopped midway through ToT heroics I'm afraid, and ofcourse, oneshots are one shots, but I'm talking about some of the shit that doesn't one shot you.
Healing requirements in 10 man are proportionally more difficult than 25 man when you run the 2/2/6 group comp, which is ideal. In Wrath, 10 mans were easier across the board, but 10 man heroic BoT/BWD (and probably Firelands though I didn't do it) was a lot harder than 25man.
10 man SoO is no joke, I can testify to that. There's much less margin for error in 10 man because losing 1 DPS when you're running 2/3/5 means you're losing 20% of your dps on bosses that all have at least a soft enrage if not a hard enrage. Given that oneshot mechanics are so prevelant, that makes 10 man a lot harder, especially on the "1 battle-rez per encounter" cap.
|
On January 19 2014 03:20 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 05:38 OrchidThief wrote:On January 18 2014 05:33 farvacola wrote:On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well. Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.) I haven't played SoO, I stopped midway through ToT heroics I'm afraid, and ofcourse, oneshots are one shots, but I'm talking about some of the shit that doesn't one shot you. Healing requirements in 10 man are proportionally more difficult than 25 man when you run the 2/2/6 group comp, which is ideal. In Wrath, 10 mans were easier across the board, but 10 man heroic BoT/BWD (and probably Firelands though I didn't do it) was a lot harder than 25man. 10 man SoO is no joke, I can testify to that. There's much less margin for error in 10 man because losing 1 DPS when you're running 2/3/5 means you're losing 20% of your dps on bosses that all have at least a soft enrage if not a hard enrage. Given that oneshot mechanics are so prevelant, that makes 10 man a lot harder, especially on the "1 battle-rez per encounter" cap.
Firelands(which i raided heroic + normal pre nerf) Usually meant a wipe with one death, Ragnaros especially. If he decided to drop Sulfuras and kill you with it even if you werent near it that meant an auto wipe, since losing someone at any time before the 1st/2nd sons of flame meant a wipe since you would usually need that Rez for P3.
A death on Shannox with a small Enrage or Baleroc was also usually a wipe(standing in traps, getting face raged, taking too many crystal pulse stacks)
|
Hey, i'm casually leveling a Druid on Cenarius and was wondering if i could get a guild invite. I'm just looking for some people to hang out with while grinding those levels.
|
The 25 vs. 10 man margin for error discussion has gone on since its introduction.
25m SoO with competent players and decent gear (around 545 average for the raid and above) feels perfectly fine. Like someone said before me, one shot mechanics are one shot mechanics in both difficulties, and it is certainly much harder to make up for 1 lost dps out of 6 than 1 lost dps out of 17 proportionally. For those that actually have played both difficulties in a tier, 10m is almost unanimously harder outside of the random outlier boss (Siegecrafter comes to mind), but with most of the bosses being much more difficult in the 10m format over the 25m format (All of TotFW in Cata, Nefarian in BWD, Spoils in SoO, and others with splitting mechanics).
|
Is there a level requirement to join the guild?
|
|
|
China6333 Posts
On January 19 2014 14:20 OreoBoi wrote:
Is there a level requirement to join the guild?
Just give any online officer in game a w/, tell us your TL id.
|
Someone invite me plz, woodburst - troll druid
|
Italy12248 Posts
Whisper anyone from the guild they all can add new members.
|
My game time is up guys! See you this summer(maybe), but definitely next christmas  I got my Orc warrior to level 40.
|
On January 19 2014 05:17 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2014 03:20 deth2munkies wrote:On January 18 2014 05:38 OrchidThief wrote:On January 18 2014 05:33 farvacola wrote:On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well. Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.) I haven't played SoO, I stopped midway through ToT heroics I'm afraid, and ofcourse, oneshots are one shots, but I'm talking about some of the shit that doesn't one shot you. Healing requirements in 10 man are proportionally more difficult than 25 man when you run the 2/2/6 group comp, which is ideal. In Wrath, 10 mans were easier across the board, but 10 man heroic BoT/BWD (and probably Firelands though I didn't do it) was a lot harder than 25man. 10 man SoO is no joke, I can testify to that. There's much less margin for error in 10 man because losing 1 DPS when you're running 2/3/5 means you're losing 20% of your dps on bosses that all have at least a soft enrage if not a hard enrage. Given that oneshot mechanics are so prevelant, that makes 10 man a lot harder, especially on the "1 battle-rez per encounter" cap. Firelands(which i raided heroic + normal pre nerf) Usually meant a wipe with one death, Ragnaros especially. If he decided to drop Sulfuras and kill you with it even if you werent near it that meant an auto wipe, since losing someone at any time before the 1st/2nd sons of flame meant a wipe since you would usually need that Rez for P3. A death on Shannox with a small Enrage or Baleroc was also usually a wipe(standing in traps, getting face raged, taking too many crystal pulse stacks)
lol. Remember Archimonde from Hyjal?
if you lost 1 person out of 40 it was a wipe, because he would start casting extra spells whenever someone died. 1 death would guarentee a wipe 90% of the time. Made it really exciting, praying that all 40 people didnt screw up haha.
|
Leveling up a Warrior for NA guild, i finally started playing again...I heard you guys needed a plate tank? Still not sure if my schedule is super awesome for raiding but once i hit 90 i'll definitely fill at least if i can't guarantee a good schedule and wouldn't mind sticking around as a "sub" raider or whatever if the raid roster is lacking.
|
51707 Posts
On January 21 2014 16:39 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2014 05:17 arb wrote:On January 19 2014 03:20 deth2munkies wrote:On January 18 2014 05:38 OrchidThief wrote:On January 18 2014 05:33 farvacola wrote:On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:
[quote]
Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes.
There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well.
WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well. Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.) I haven't played SoO, I stopped midway through ToT heroics I'm afraid, and ofcourse, oneshots are one shots, but I'm talking about some of the shit that doesn't one shot you. Healing requirements in 10 man are proportionally more difficult than 25 man when you run the 2/2/6 group comp, which is ideal. In Wrath, 10 mans were easier across the board, but 10 man heroic BoT/BWD (and probably Firelands though I didn't do it) was a lot harder than 25man. 10 man SoO is no joke, I can testify to that. There's much less margin for error in 10 man because losing 1 DPS when you're running 2/3/5 means you're losing 20% of your dps on bosses that all have at least a soft enrage if not a hard enrage. Given that oneshot mechanics are so prevelant, that makes 10 man a lot harder, especially on the "1 battle-rez per encounter" cap. Firelands(which i raided heroic + normal pre nerf) Usually meant a wipe with one death, Ragnaros especially. If he decided to drop Sulfuras and kill you with it even if you werent near it that meant an auto wipe, since losing someone at any time before the 1st/2nd sons of flame meant a wipe since you would usually need that Rez for P3. A death on Shannox with a small Enrage or Baleroc was also usually a wipe(standing in traps, getting face raged, taking too many crystal pulse stacks) lol. Remember Archimonde from Hyjal? if you lost 1 person out of 40 it was a wipe, because he would start casting extra spells whenever someone died. 1 death would guarentee a wipe 90% of the time. Made it really exciting, praying that all 40 people didnt screw up haha.
er, weren't bc raids 25 man?
|
On January 21 2014 16:55 Ethelis wrote:
Leveling up a Warrior for NA guild, i finally started playing again...I heard you guys needed a plate tank? Still not sure if my schedule is super awesome for raiding but once i hit 90 i'll definitely fill at least if i can't guarantee a good schedule and wouldn't mind sticking around as a "sub" raider or whatever if the raid roster is lacking.
Tanks can't be flakey lol, an undergeared casual tank is just wasting everyone's time.
|
On January 21 2014 16:55 Ethelis wrote:
Leveling up a Warrior for NA guild, i finally started playing again...I heard you guys needed a plate tank? Still not sure if my schedule is super awesome for raiding but once i hit 90 i'll definitely fill at least if i can't guarantee a good schedule and wouldn't mind sticking around as a "sub" raider or whatever if the raid roster is lacking.
I believe we've figured out our tank situation for the current MoP content, but you're welcome to keep working on a tank set as Id like to get a 2nd group goin before too long.
|
On January 21 2014 16:39 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2014 05:17 arb wrote:On January 19 2014 03:20 deth2munkies wrote:On January 18 2014 05:38 OrchidThief wrote:On January 18 2014 05:33 farvacola wrote:On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:
[quote]
Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes.
There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well.
WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well. Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.) I haven't played SoO, I stopped midway through ToT heroics I'm afraid, and ofcourse, oneshots are one shots, but I'm talking about some of the shit that doesn't one shot you. Healing requirements in 10 man are proportionally more difficult than 25 man when you run the 2/2/6 group comp, which is ideal. In Wrath, 10 mans were easier across the board, but 10 man heroic BoT/BWD (and probably Firelands though I didn't do it) was a lot harder than 25man. 10 man SoO is no joke, I can testify to that. There's much less margin for error in 10 man because losing 1 DPS when you're running 2/3/5 means you're losing 20% of your dps on bosses that all have at least a soft enrage if not a hard enrage. Given that oneshot mechanics are so prevelant, that makes 10 man a lot harder, especially on the "1 battle-rez per encounter" cap. Firelands(which i raided heroic + normal pre nerf) Usually meant a wipe with one death, Ragnaros especially. If he decided to drop Sulfuras and kill you with it even if you werent near it that meant an auto wipe, since losing someone at any time before the 1st/2nd sons of flame meant a wipe since you would usually need that Rez for P3. A death on Shannox with a small Enrage or Baleroc was also usually a wipe(standing in traps, getting face raged, taking too many crystal pulse stacks) lol. Remember Archimonde from Hyjal? if you lost 1 person out of 40 it was a wipe, because he would start casting extra spells whenever someone died. 1 death would guarentee a wipe 90% of the time. Made it really exciting, praying that all 40 people didnt screw up haha.
Hyjal was 25 man and it wasn't even close to that bad if one person died, although if a couple more did it was pretty much gone.
|
Italy12248 Posts
Besides, hardcore tbc raids were 25 man anyway, so the difference between 10 and 25 didnt apply like they did in cata and wotlk (not sure about today).
|
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Banana still awaiting access to guild forums if someone could let him in ;_;
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
