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Don't know much about bears, as I've not had the chance to see them in action that often, but all other tanks look to increase their dmg in 10mans.
Warriors and DK's stack dodge/parry due to Riposte (after they dodge/parry/get hit they get crit rating equal to 75% of the parry+dodge rating from gear for 20s).
Paladins stack haste because it makes them smoother to heal (faster Eternal Flame/Sacred Shield ticks and it lowers the cd on their Holy Power generators => more active mitigation uptime).
Monks stack crit because it gives them a HUGE damage boost and increases their Elusive Brew uptime (a short-duration 30% dodge buff).
On 10man our two tanks (protadin and DK) constantly switch between tank and dps cloak, trinkets, food and flask. Never heard of 25man tanks doing that (unless you talk about world firsts).
Edit: sucks that most tank trinkets this tier have stamina on them...
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On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually).
It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people.
Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2.
One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Think we still need more information Cadiz. Like the beta hasn't even started yet, well it might have but it is like super closed secret if it has. (Which is unlike blizzard for WoW games) So im guessing it will be a while before we find out xD
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On January 17 2014 18:53 Cadiz wrote:
Just read that the free level 90 boosts will be available as soon as you pre order. I hope that your account requires at least one level 90 before you can access this service. Does anyone know if that will be the case or not?
I don't believe this is the case. The whole reason for the boost in the first place was to convince former players to hop back in and start playing current content.
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On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them.
25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP.
Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too.
I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's.
Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so.
+ Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.)
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On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them.
I disagree. First of all, there isn't really that much more to dodge, unless whatever you need to dodge is dependant on players (more people being targeted by some form of aoe ability etc). Also, healing 5 groups instead of 2 is not really an issue if you're organized. Even in 10 mans, unless the raid is overgeared, it's almost always important to decide beforehand what healers take care of which groups, the same makes perfect sense to do in 25 man (one healer per group, more or less). In LFR, this isn't really needed, you can just spam heals and all groups are fine, but in real raids, there's rarely a nice way to keep all groups topped off unless it's properly organized. IMO, this is not something which is hard to do and has little to do with 25man being harder, but rather the organization of 25 people being harder.
In 10 man, even one dps slacking can very well mean you won't get past dps checks, one healer running out of mana will definitely wipe you. In 25man, there's leeway in these situations. Mechanics still need to be properly handled (kicking shells at Tortos for example), but that shouldn't really be all that different between 10 and 25 man since the mechanics are the same.
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Apparently you can subscribe to beta for Wod now. Don't have the source. I just received a text from a friend.
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On January 17 2014 21:22 akatama wrote:
Don't know much about bears, as I've not had the chance to see them in action that often, but all other tanks look to increase their dmg in 10mans.
Warriors and DK's stack dodge/parry due to Riposte (after they dodge/parry/get hit they get crit rating equal to 75% of the parry+dodge rating from gear for 20s).
Paladins stack haste because it makes them smoother to heal (faster Eternal Flame/Sacred Shield ticks and it lowers the cd on their Holy Power generators => more active mitigation uptime).
Monks stack crit because it gives them a HUGE damage boost and increases their Elusive Brew uptime (a short-duration 30% dodge buff).
On 10man our two tanks (protadin and DK) constantly switch between tank and dps cloak, trinkets, food and flask. Never heard of 25man tanks doing that (unless you talk about world firsts).
Edit: sucks that most tank trinkets this tier have stamina on them...
Tanks stack offensive stats, but the main purpose is to increase active mitigation effects. The increase in damage is only incidental. I got confused by your imprecision.
And yeah, the trinket situation is a complete mess. For brewmaster the best 2nd trinkets (mastery or crit build) are from ToT hc.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
On January 18 2014 00:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
Apparently you can subscribe to beta for Wod now. Don't have the source. I just received a text from a friend.
https://www.battle.net/account/management/beta-profile.html?style=beta
Is a link from the Warlords of Draenor website page. Click that then log into battle net then it should sign you up/put you in the right direction.
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On January 18 2014 00:12 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 21:22 akatama wrote:
Don't know much about bears, as I've not had the chance to see them in action that often, but all other tanks look to increase their dmg in 10mans.
Warriors and DK's stack dodge/parry due to Riposte (after they dodge/parry/get hit they get crit rating equal to 75% of the parry+dodge rating from gear for 20s).
Paladins stack haste because it makes them smoother to heal (faster Eternal Flame/Sacred Shield ticks and it lowers the cd on their Holy Power generators => more active mitigation uptime).
Monks stack crit because it gives them a HUGE damage boost and increases their Elusive Brew uptime (a short-duration 30% dodge buff).
On 10man our two tanks (protadin and DK) constantly switch between tank and dps cloak, trinkets, food and flask. Never heard of 25man tanks doing that (unless you talk about world firsts).
Edit: sucks that most tank trinkets this tier have stamina on them... Tanks stack offensive stats, but the main purpose is to increase active mitigation effects. The increase in damage is only incidental. I got confused by your imprecision. And yeah, the trinket situation is a complete mess. For brewmaster the best 2nd trinkets (mastery or crit build) are from ToT hc.
The sheer stat boost that comes from 540 flex and 553 normal items makes that not really true. While a BM monk certainly would prefer mastery above pretty much all else (the crit build is mostly unorthodox and highly unreliable), the benefits that come with the higher ilvl make Rook's Unlucky Talisman and Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal superior picks to any ToT heroic trinket, and if you wanna really focus mastery, Ticking Ebon Detonator from Siegecrafter is miles ahead of Fortitude of the Zandalari. This is all after the fact that Vial of Living Corruption is hands down the 1st in slot BiS tank trinket for all classes as well.
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Any Arcane Mages around? Would like some tips on gemming and such, since I've been Frost forever and decided to respec today. Mana management tips would be great as well.
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On January 17 2014 18:04 akatama wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:
well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually Not really. On 10man tanks usually tend to maximize their damage, whereas that is less of an issue in 25man. When you draw the line I think 10man is harder on tanks too.
10Mans alot harder than 25, deaths in 10man are pretty much wipe worthy because of only 1 rez, alot of the fights(cata atleast) were tuned for 25mans but in the 10man raiding thing(does that make sense) making them a whole lot harder than they should have been
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On January 18 2014 03:04 Stancel wrote:
Any Arcane Mages around? Would like some tips on gemming and such, since I've been Frost forever and decided to respec today. Mana management tips would be great as well.
Mash Arcane blast to 5 stacks, if arcane missile proc mash that to break stacks, if no proc use arcane barrage
congrats youre playing arcane
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On January 18 2014 03:39 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 18:04 akatama wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:
well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually Not really. On 10man tanks usually tend to maximize their damage, whereas that is less of an issue in 25man. When you draw the line I think 10man is harder on tanks too. 10Mans alot harder than 25, deaths in 10man are pretty much wipe worthy because of only 1 rez, alot of the fights(cata atleast) were tuned for 25mans but in the 10man raiding thing(does that make sense) making them a whole lot harder than they should have been
It's always been, if positioning/coordination is important then 25 mans is harder, if "utility" (stuns, slows, roots, specific number of interrupts, healing cooldowns etc.) is important then 10mans was harder. DPS and healing requirements have been very back and forth. Since they implemented split raids if you were to go through them one by one, I'm fairly sure it'd come out about 50/50 on which setting was tougher.
10 man has always been tuned lower on requirements for personal dps, since they've assumed not all buffs were always present. Thing is, in organised guilds, all buffs were always present, which usually meant dps requirements were often more easily met on 10 mans.
The spread out and stack type fights were always fuckloads harder on 25mans. Blade Lord what's his face (2nd one in the bug instance) was almost trivial on 10mans compared to 25 mans for this reason, same was true of someone like Professor Putricide or Blood Queen Lana'thel on heroic. (Which of course was in wotlk when they hadn't completely tried balancing 10 and 25 the same. Same principle though).
Edit: Just realise that's kind of what Warri said.
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On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.)
10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man.
10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well.
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On January 18 2014 01:26 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 00:12 nimbim wrote:On January 17 2014 21:22 akatama wrote:
Don't know much about bears, as I've not had the chance to see them in action that often, but all other tanks look to increase their dmg in 10mans.
Warriors and DK's stack dodge/parry due to Riposte (after they dodge/parry/get hit they get crit rating equal to 75% of the parry+dodge rating from gear for 20s).
Paladins stack haste because it makes them smoother to heal (faster Eternal Flame/Sacred Shield ticks and it lowers the cd on their Holy Power generators => more active mitigation uptime).
Monks stack crit because it gives them a HUGE damage boost and increases their Elusive Brew uptime (a short-duration 30% dodge buff).
On 10man our two tanks (protadin and DK) constantly switch between tank and dps cloak, trinkets, food and flask. Never heard of 25man tanks doing that (unless you talk about world firsts).
Edit: sucks that most tank trinkets this tier have stamina on them... Tanks stack offensive stats, but the main purpose is to increase active mitigation effects. The increase in damage is only incidental. I got confused by your imprecision. And yeah, the trinket situation is a complete mess. For brewmaster the best 2nd trinkets (mastery or crit build) are from ToT hc. The sheer stat boost that comes from 540 flex and 553 normal items makes that not really true. While a BM monk certainly would prefer mastery above pretty much all else (the crit build is mostly unorthodox and highly unreliable), the benefits that come with the higher ilvl make Rook's Unlucky Talisman and Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal superior picks to any ToT heroic trinket, and if you wanna really focus mastery, Ticking Ebon Detonator from Siegecrafter is miles ahead of Fortitude of the Zandalari. This is all after the fact that Vial of Living Corruption is hands down the 1st in slot BiS tank trinket for all classes as well.
Vial of Living Corruption is pretty bad, it affects Guard, Fortifying Brew, Zen Meditation, Avert Harm, Transcendence: Transfer, Clash. 6sec off Guard or 30sec off Fortifying Brew won't really help. Not to mention all the wasted stats in stamina.
Rook's Unlucky Talisman isn't necessary for Malkorok soloing the 2nd phase cleave. Fortifying Brew lasts exactly as long as the phase and Zen Meditation is ready each time. I cannot imagine where else you might want it. Thok maybe.
Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal has wasted stats in dodge and the heal is not very great. HC 2/2 upgraded its 3.22%, say a fight with decent vengeance/aoe 300k dps that is not even 10k hps, not very helpful for spiky BM damage. If it weren't for the dodge it sure could be great, but the way it is I'd call it mediocre. If I get it warforged I will consider it again.
BiS for mastery and crit build is Ticking Ebon Detonator, the only SoO trinket with decent stats for BM.
2nd depends, Thok’s Tail Tip is pretty good for a mastery build despite the strength proc. Rune of Re-Origination (ToT) is still the better choice imo, works well with the higher itemlvl gear and nothing wasted.
For crit it is either Bad Juju or Renataki’s Soul Charm (both ToT), since there are 0 wasted stats and it is still 543 (549 thunderforged).
That is my opinion, anyway.
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On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well.
Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.)
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On January 18 2014 05:33 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 05:27 OrchidThief wrote:On January 17 2014 23:00 Omnishroud wrote:On January 17 2014 21:57 Warri wrote:On January 17 2014 16:56 Tobberoth wrote:On January 17 2014 13:52 deth2munkies wrote:On January 17 2014 11:40 Omnishroud wrote:
Im going off the constant bitching from everybody for the last god-knows-how-long ? Since WOTLk i guess. Why are people so quick to be shitty with others. I raided up until (the end of) cata and the bitching still hasnt stopped, i was just commenting on it and being nice about it too. The content is still cleared and on farm in weeks by committed guilds. I also never mentioned SoO (or any raid) at all or as a failure. Basically he's just referring to the fact that around 95% of that bitching that stuff is too easy is from people running LFR or 10 man normal which are by far the easiest modes. There has been some disappointing raid content in recent years (Trials made me quit the game and from what I've heard and seen, Vaults was never fun), but I've been having fun with ToT and SoO. And I had fun with Ulduar, BoT, and BWD in the last couple expansions as well. WoW raiding has never been horrible, what's been horrible is the grind and the scattershot class balance that has given way to striking homogeneity in the last expansion. That's the first time I've ever heard someone say 10 man is easier than 25 man. It's the other way around, at least it definitely was in cataclysm. There's far less margin of error and far more responsibility placed on every single individual in 10man, which is why LFR is 25man. Obviously there are other issues with 25 man (far harder to organize, keep everyone working together etc) but for every individual in the raid, 10 man should be harder (well, I could see 25man being harder for the tanks since there's still just 2 tanks usually). It actually goes boss-by-boss. Most are easier in 10man but some are really tough because you need special compositions. From my experience, the difference is that 10man raids usually only have at max 12 people total. So if someone cant play on that day or they need a special composition they are stuck, whereas for 25 man raids you usually have 35-40 people. Execution in 25man raids is way harder, because there is just more stuff to dodge which does more damage and even though you have more healers its still harder to watch out for 5 groups rather than 2. One boss where 10man have it way harder that comes to my mind are spirit kings in mogushan. In 25man you usually have a few paladins which can remove the arrow stun with hand of protection. If you have 4 palas you dont need to kill a single arrow. On 10man you have to kill them. 25 mans are more about player co-ordination and not having idiots in your raid really, people cruise by being shitty because there is so much more room for mistakes. In 10 mans your actions matter a whole lot more, if you fuck up, probably a wipe. If you pool together 25 competent people for 25 mans i believe its a whole lot easier. I do not think you could split many 25 man raid groups into 2, 10 man teams of their best and have them both clear 10 man's easily unless there have been drastic changes in MoP. Alot of 25 man raids simply have dead weight and only the very committed guilds will happily kick any dead weight off the team because of it. With 10 mans if you have dead weight, you aren't progressing until they shape up and its very obvious who it is (even to them) which tends to sort the problem alot quicker too. I do agree it comes on a boss-by-boss basis, but pre-MoP things were very stacked in 10's being the harder of the two in most cases. With many of the exceptions being in TBC actually, i think that may have been harder for 25's from vague memory of 10's. Have things changed very much? From popular opinions and that of my friends still playing and raiding, it doesnt seem so. + Show Spoiler +(Please, if i'm wrong, inform me of how and why i am instead of jumping down my throat like a prick and making me act the same.) 10 mans in TBC was: Zul'Aman and Karazhan and that's it, nothing else was available on 10 man. 10 mans also have a larger built in error margin, which means, that you don't lose that one player as often. Bad shit doesn't hurt as much, and many fights are more forgiving for errors. Healing requirements are lower and dps requirements sure as shit are as well. Ehh, I wouldn't say that 10 man's have a larger margin for error, that error simply looks like 1 player dying instead of 2 or 3. The later 3 wings of SoO all include a fair number of insta gibs no matter the player count (Galakras's fireball, Jugg's mines, standing in Malk's breath, Thok lol, Siegecrafter mines, Paragons Aim, Parasites, etc., and plenty of Garrosh.)
I haven't played SoO, I stopped midway through ToT heroics I'm afraid, and ofcourse, oneshots are one shots, but I'm talking about some of the shit that doesn't one shot you.
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On January 18 2014 05:28 nimbim wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2014 01:26 farvacola wrote:On January 18 2014 00:12 nimbim wrote:On January 17 2014 21:22 akatama wrote:
Don't know much about bears, as I've not had the chance to see them in action that often, but all other tanks look to increase their dmg in 10mans.
Warriors and DK's stack dodge/parry due to Riposte (after they dodge/parry/get hit they get crit rating equal to 75% of the parry+dodge rating from gear for 20s).
Paladins stack haste because it makes them smoother to heal (faster Eternal Flame/Sacred Shield ticks and it lowers the cd on their Holy Power generators => more active mitigation uptime).
Monks stack crit because it gives them a HUGE damage boost and increases their Elusive Brew uptime (a short-duration 30% dodge buff).
On 10man our two tanks (protadin and DK) constantly switch between tank and dps cloak, trinkets, food and flask. Never heard of 25man tanks doing that (unless you talk about world firsts).
Edit: sucks that most tank trinkets this tier have stamina on them... Tanks stack offensive stats, but the main purpose is to increase active mitigation effects. The increase in damage is only incidental. I got confused by your imprecision. And yeah, the trinket situation is a complete mess. For brewmaster the best 2nd trinkets (mastery or crit build) are from ToT hc. The sheer stat boost that comes from 540 flex and 553 normal items makes that not really true. While a BM monk certainly would prefer mastery above pretty much all else (the crit build is mostly unorthodox and highly unreliable), the benefits that come with the higher ilvl make Rook's Unlucky Talisman and Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal superior picks to any ToT heroic trinket, and if you wanna really focus mastery, Ticking Ebon Detonator from Siegecrafter is miles ahead of Fortitude of the Zandalari. This is all after the fact that Vial of Living Corruption is hands down the 1st in slot BiS tank trinket for all classes as well. Vial of Living Corruption is pretty bad, it affects Guard, Fortifying Brew, Zen Meditation, Avert Harm, Transcendence: Transfer, Clash. 6sec off Guard or 30sec off Fortifying Brew won't really help. Not to mention all the wasted stats in stamina. Rook's Unlucky Talisman isn't necessary for Malkorok soloing the 2nd phase cleave. Fortifying Brew lasts exactly as long as the phase and Zen Meditation is ready each time. I cannot imagine where else you might want it. Thok maybe. Juggernaut's Focusing Crystal has wasted stats in dodge and the heal is not very great. HC 2/2 upgraded its 3.22%, say a fight with decent vengeance/aoe 300k dps that is not even 10k hps, not very helpful for spiky BM damage. If it weren't for the dodge it sure could be great, but the way it is I'd call it mediocre. If I get it warforged I will consider it again. BiS for mastery and crit build is Ticking Ebon Detonator, the only SoO trinket with decent stats for BM. 2nd depends, Thok’s Tail Tip is pretty good for a mastery build despite the strength proc. Rune of Re-Origination (ToT) is still the better choice imo, works well with the higher itemlvl gear and nothing wasted. For crit it is either Bad Juju or Renataki’s Soul Charm (both ToT), since there are 0 wasted stats and it is still 543 (549 thunderforged). That is my opinion, anyway. + Show Spoiler +http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/ysera/Munkeln/advanced
I'm not sure why you keep calling stats in dodge and stamina "wasted", both are simply assigned a priority relative to the builds focus, and both bring value to all styles of playing Brewmaster in one way or another. At the end of the day, everyone has their go to source for information, and I've been building my monk based largely on what I hear from an old friend who mains BM back on my Vanilla server, Shattered Hand. His gear is nearly as impressive as yours is, and his opinion on Vial is different. (This appeal to authority game in WoW theorycrafting is really annoying btw) This brings me to the one of the reasons I've actually enjoyed BM tanking far more than I expected; there are multiple ways to build/prioritize your rotations. Nice gear though, and I do think that Sunnier is usually right on the money.
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EPT
But i just wanted to tell you guys that "apperently" (since i did not have the source) you can "official update your beta profile for wod". I found something but in French.
