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United Kingdom20287 Posts
On August 05 2015 06:10 Seuss wrote:
Basically there's no reason to stick around anymore once you're through the content.
WoW used to be a glorified chatroom of sorts, all your friends were playing it all the time as they farmed mats, did rep grinds, or ran a dungeon for the 20th time for that one drop they really wanted. Blizzard removed all the pointlessly punishing aspects of the game, but didn't find any way to replace the social functions those gameplay elements served.
So now that you can do everything except harder difficulties without giving a crap about anybody else there's no reason to stick around once you've done everything.
i agree a lot with this~
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What were the numbers before WoD? ~6,5 right?
Don't see the big deal here, numbers have been going down for a long time, except a couple of month at each exp release.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
Issue is though the jump/surge which caused the worst launch of all time of an expansion, has now back fired so hard they are left with the lowest sub level since Vanilla iirc. Went from 7million or so at end of MoP to a surge to 10.9million after December, to now 5.5 million Q2. They NEED to do something and fast, i for one cancelled my sub but will start again on new expansion but i losing the draw to raid and PvP is just broken and never seems to get fixed. What else is there to do on WoW other than RP :s
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There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games.
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On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games.
I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others.
Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really.
Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette.
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On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette.
Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him.
Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly 
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On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly
They are not RL friends no, in a way they are indeed random people from the game but at least there is some form of selection.
Did i make 'friends' over the years? Sure I have but I have also met a lot of people I would have happily avoided.
Its a question of balance. Is it worth interaction with random people for the chance to meet a new friend while also running into a number of I would rather not meet?
I don't play WoW to make online friends, If it happens great but I'm here because I enjoy the game itself and i wouldn't call LFR a fun experience for example.
I would much rather do a raid with my guild who I can trust to not whine or insult each others mom when they get beaten on dps.
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On August 05 2015 18:36 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly They are not RL friends no, in a way they are indeed random people from the game but at least there is some form of selection. Did i make 'friends' over the years? Sure I have but I have also met a lot of people I would have happily avoided. Its a question of balance. Is it worth interaction with random people for the chance to meet a new friend while also running into a number of I would rather not meet? I don't play WoW to make online friends, If it happens great but I'm here because I enjoy the game itself and i wouldn't call LFR a fun experience for example. I would much rather do a raid with my guild who I can trust to not whine or insult each others mom when they get beaten on dps.
I think you're describing the social aspect of it just fine without even knowing it: vanilla you were forced into interacting with people, and found yourself a group of guildies and friends who you hit up to form groups before spamming the LFG (I mean Trade, of course) channel to fill out your group with someone who hopefully didn't suck. Sometimes you met new people who it clicked with, and sometimes you met dicks who you blacklisted and never grouped with again ever. Moreover, the dungeons were hard and required some form of coordination, so you were forced to talk to each other inside the dungeon too, and while I wouldn't call coordinating the group, being social, it definitely could lead to it.
Now, you join LFG and find a group of random cross-server players who nobody interacts with, chain pull trash, and even bosses and then leave. And even raids have been replaced by LFR.
Was it fun to hang in Orgrimmar for hours trying to find a tamk for your Scholo group? No. It sucked, but it did force you into having meaningful interactions with people. The suckiness was rightfully recognized and fixed, but it's just possible they threw out the baby with the bathwater.
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On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly
Basically there no content for PvE and PvP is completely in shamble has destroyed this expansion. The PvE can be fix but I think the PvP problem is a lost caused and will never be fixed again. Blizzard has proposed a "Mercenary" thingy which is soon to come but I think that is only a bandaid. I am laughing so hard right now at the PvP team because they are SO SCREWED that the best thing they can come up with was a "Mercenary" faction which completely destroys the immersion and lore of the game.
For people who don't know, Mercenary is basically an optional que system for BG to allow shorter que time by queing yourself as the opposite faction. This is needed because alliance que time for BG were insanely long because horde weren't queing up. Horde aren't queing up because they were getting bodied in everything since all the top pvper transfered to alliance. All good horde PvPer transferred because human racial is OP to the point that NO HORDE got gladiator in season 1 for 3v3. Horde are allowed to transfer to alliance because blizzard allowed faction change which trigger this entire event.
Even if blizzard removed racial from PvP it will not matter because those good horde pvper will most likely not spend the money to return to horde without some incentive to do so. This mean that alliance took a large number of horde PvP community permanently. Which lead to alliance winning more Ashran, BG and gearing faster and creating even more of a bigger problem that just keep going. There is really no logical solution to this mess.
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On August 05 2015 19:25 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 18:36 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly They are not RL friends no, in a way they are indeed random people from the game but at least there is some form of selection. Did i make 'friends' over the years? Sure I have but I have also met a lot of people I would have happily avoided. Its a question of balance. Is it worth interaction with random people for the chance to meet a new friend while also running into a number of I would rather not meet? I don't play WoW to make online friends, If it happens great but I'm here because I enjoy the game itself and i wouldn't call LFR a fun experience for example. I would much rather do a raid with my guild who I can trust to not whine or insult each others mom when they get beaten on dps. I think you're describing the social aspect of it just fine without even knowing it: vanilla you were forced into interacting with people, and found yourself a group of guildies and friends who you hit up to form groups before spamming the LFG (I mean Trade, of course) channel to fill out your group with someone who hopefully didn't suck. Sometimes you met new people who it clicked with, and sometimes you met dicks who you blacklisted and never grouped with again ever. Moreover, the dungeons were hard and required some form of coordination, so you were forced to talk to each other inside the dungeon too, and while I wouldn't call coordinating the group, being social, it definitely could lead to it. Now, you join LFG and find a group of random cross-server players who nobody interacts with, chain pull trash, and even bosses and then leave. And even raids have been replaced by LFR. Was it fun to hang in Orgrimmar for hours trying to find a tamk for your Scholo group? No. It sucked, but it did force you into having meaningful interactions with people. The suckiness was rightfully recognized and fixed, but it's just possible they threw out the baby with the bathwater.
Thank you for saying what i wanted to tell with proper phrasing and understanding english 
It was exactly what i was looking to tell.
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On August 05 2015 19:41 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly Basically there no content for PvE and PvP is completely in shamble has destroyed this expansion. The PvE can be fix but I think the PvP problem is a lost caused and will never be fixed again. Blizzard has proposed a "Mercenary" thingy which is soon to come but I think that is only a bandaid. I am laughing so hard right now at the PvP team because they are SO SCREWED that the best thing they can come up with was a "Mercenary" faction which completely destroys the immersion and lore of the game. For people who don't know, Mercenary is basically an optional que system for BG to allow shorter que time by queing yourself as the opposite faction. This is needed because alliance que time for BG were insanely long because horde weren't queing up. Horde aren't queing up because they were getting bodied in everything since all the top pvper transfered to alliance. All good horde PvPer transferred because human racial is OP to the point that NO HORDE got gladiator in season 1 for 3v3. Horde are allowed to transfer to alliance because blizzard allowed faction change which trigger this entire event. Even if blizzard removed racial from PvP it will not matter because those good horde pvper will most likely not spend the money to return to horde without some incentive to do so. This mean that alliance took a large number of horde PvP community permanently. Which lead to alliance winning more Ashran, BG and gearing faster and creating even more of a bigger problem that just keep going. There is really no logical solution to this mess.
Bg's have not been balanced since they were introduced. Now its Alliance, previously it was Horde ectect.
Mercenary mode is a good solution for that and bringing Lore as a problem is hilarious. No one is playing pvp for Lore.
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United Kingdom20287 Posts
On August 05 2015 16:36 Duvon wrote:
What were the numbers before WoD? ~6,5 right?
Don't see the big deal here, numbers have been going down for a long time, except a couple of month at each exp release.
7.6 - 7.8 until quite a long time after SOO, where it dipped to 6.8 and then rose again before WOD.
This early after the final content patch, Mists had about 1.4x more subscribers. Coming up to this call, i was expecting roughly stable subs and then dropping in the next 2 quarters - now it just looks really scary for them. If expansion release is in 4-5 months it will be a different story than if it's in 10 months but this will continue to be horrible to watch either way
on the plus side, i think the majority of the players who left actually want to play a WoW that they enjoy, the expansion just didn't work for them. With this much loss we could see a new record for surge of players joining for next expansion and more of them might actually stay
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On August 05 2015 19:25 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 18:36 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly They are not RL friends no, in a way they are indeed random people from the game but at least there is some form of selection. Did i make 'friends' over the years? Sure I have but I have also met a lot of people I would have happily avoided. Its a question of balance. Is it worth interaction with random people for the chance to meet a new friend while also running into a number of I would rather not meet? I don't play WoW to make online friends, If it happens great but I'm here because I enjoy the game itself and i wouldn't call LFR a fun experience for example. I would much rather do a raid with my guild who I can trust to not whine or insult each others mom when they get beaten on dps. I think you're describing the social aspect of it just fine without even knowing it: vanilla you were forced into interacting with people, and found yourself a group of guildies and friends who you hit up to form groups before spamming the LFG (I mean Trade, of course) channel to fill out your group with someone who hopefully didn't suck. Sometimes you met new people who it clicked with, and sometimes you met dicks who you blacklisted and never grouped with again ever. Moreover, the dungeons were hard and required some form of coordination, so you were forced to talk to each other inside the dungeon too, and while I wouldn't call coordinating the group, being social, it definitely could lead to it. Now, you join LFG and find a group of random cross-server players who nobody interacts with, chain pull trash, and even bosses and then leave. And even raids have been replaced by LFR. Was it fun to hang in Orgrimmar for hours trying to find a tamk for your Scholo group? No. It sucked, but it did force you into having meaningful interactions with people. The suckiness was rightfully recognized and fixed, but it's just possible they threw out the baby with the bathwater.
This is pretty point on.
Back then it had consequences when you were an antisocial ass**** who thought he could act like a 4 year old. The server communities were small and tight enough to force people to play nice, get kicked out of 1-2 good guilds for bad behaviour and you could have a very hard time to get another chance.
Claim Need on cloth as a plateclass? Have fun sitting in Dalaran for 3 more hours trying to get a group for your dungeon daily. Doing stupid stuff like that really ruined your reputation.
But Blizzard destroyed this over the years: name change, server trans = easy tools to "escape" to a fresh server once you pissed off enough people.
Groupfinder and LFR, even enhanced that, showing bad behaviour has zero consequences nowadays.What are those 4 -24 people gonna do ? You will never ever see them again, so zero reason to behave nice.
Also the "gogogo pullpullpull if we dont finish this dungeon under 7 minutes we will kick your sorry noob ass out of the group" mentality removes any chance to even talk and get to know new people.
All this convenience stuff Blizzard gave us , totally destroyed any community and you can see this getting worse and worse.
I mean why is it so hard for small guilds to recruit up to 20 and do Mythic? Guilds have more fluctuation these days than greek fiance ministers. People jump from one to another, as soon as there are 1-2 bad raids or the slightest chance to get into a guild higher up on WoW Progress.
This of course ruins it for the loyal people, who stay forever they equip a new guy every 3 weeks just to see him move up on the food chain. I have seen this so often now as i kept contact with the people of my old raid guild who are now spread up into 3-4 different guilds. Some are already in their third guild cause of this stuff, loosing any motivation after equipping new dudes every 3 week just to see them jump ship ect. Most of them have quit by now or are close to it.
But enough ranting, personally i don't think Blizzard can "save" WoW with any expansion or new features because it's impossible to fix the community.
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United Kingdom20287 Posts
I mean why is it so hard for small guilds to recruit up to 20 and do Mythic? Guilds have more fluctuation these days than greek fiance ministers. People jump from one to another, as soon as there are 1-2 bad raids or the slightest chance to get into a guild higher up on WoW Progress.
Before my guild stopped raiding, we lost 6 or 7 hunters in 8-9 weeks. That was only a fraction of the turnover. Somehow kept a roster of 15-30 people through the end of BRF and first month of HFC
I don't really blame it on the other things mentioned.
This is EXACTLY what i saw when Wildstar was collapsing in subs, guild merge after guild merge. It was worse, but they lost 85% of their players in 6 months, not 44%. With any kind of sub loss anywhere near this substantial, you'll see a lot of people quitting/leaving creating an environment that's not very stable at all, which then leads to even more people jumping guilds for progress or due to the instability
It doesn't seem to matter how many players you have. If you have 10 mill players instead of 1 mill, you'll just have 10x as many guilds. The amount of players joining and leaving the raiding scene seems to impact the guild feeling a lot, lot more. A stable low population is much more solid than having a bunch of players but losing 10% of them every month. I have friends in MMO's with 50'000 players that have much more stable guilds than i can find right now or have been a part of in WOD.
It's literally that, 100 multiplied by 0.9^6. 10% loss per months for 6 months = losing 47% of playerbase in 2 quarters. We lost 44%.
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On August 05 2015 20:15 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 19:41 SheaR619 wrote:On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly Basically there no content for PvE and PvP is completely in shamble has destroyed this expansion. The PvE can be fix but I think the PvP problem is a lost caused and will never be fixed again. Blizzard has proposed a "Mercenary" thingy which is soon to come but I think that is only a bandaid. I am laughing so hard right now at the PvP team because they are SO SCREWED that the best thing they can come up with was a "Mercenary" faction which completely destroys the immersion and lore of the game. For people who don't know, Mercenary is basically an optional que system for BG to allow shorter que time by queing yourself as the opposite faction. This is needed because alliance que time for BG were insanely long because horde weren't queing up. Horde aren't queing up because they were getting bodied in everything since all the top pvper transfered to alliance. All good horde PvPer transferred because human racial is OP to the point that NO HORDE got gladiator in season 1 for 3v3. Horde are allowed to transfer to alliance because blizzard allowed faction change which trigger this entire event. Even if blizzard removed racial from PvP it will not matter because those good horde pvper will most likely not spend the money to return to horde without some incentive to do so. This mean that alliance took a large number of horde PvP community permanently. Which lead to alliance winning more Ashran, BG and gearing faster and creating even more of a bigger problem that just keep going. There is really no logical solution to this mess. Bg's have not been balanced since they were introduced. Now its Alliance, previously it was Horde ectect. Mercenary mode is a good solution for that and bringing Lore as a problem is hilarious. No one is playing pvp for Lore.
The situation are completely different from the past. In the past, all they had to do was nerf or buff other racial and the game would balance out. Now the problem is that a large majority of the horde PvP community were forced to transfer to alliance to stay competent in arena. Those that transfer will never come back so it will never truly be fixed by tweaking a few numbers. Lore is pretty important because it create immersion. Immersion is very important in any MMO and blizzard are continuing to blur the line between alliance and horde which is what made Warcraft....well....Warcraft. I have read many interview and blizzard themselves said they didn't want to do it but they can not find any other solution. I guaranteed, people are going to be complaining about this in a few month from now just like they complained about LFR and other things like this but sadly this is the only solution.
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Canada1600 Posts
On August 06 2015 07:09 SheaR619 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2015 20:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 19:41 SheaR619 wrote:On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly Basically there no content for PvE and PvP is completely in shamble has destroyed this expansion. The PvE can be fix but I think the PvP problem is a lost caused and will never be fixed again. Blizzard has proposed a "Mercenary" thingy which is soon to come but I think that is only a bandaid. I am laughing so hard right now at the PvP team because they are SO SCREWED that the best thing they can come up with was a "Mercenary" faction which completely destroys the immersion and lore of the game. For people who don't know, Mercenary is basically an optional que system for BG to allow shorter que time by queing yourself as the opposite faction. This is needed because alliance que time for BG were insanely long because horde weren't queing up. Horde aren't queing up because they were getting bodied in everything since all the top pvper transfered to alliance. All good horde PvPer transferred because human racial is OP to the point that NO HORDE got gladiator in season 1 for 3v3. Horde are allowed to transfer to alliance because blizzard allowed faction change which trigger this entire event. Even if blizzard removed racial from PvP it will not matter because those good horde pvper will most likely not spend the money to return to horde without some incentive to do so. This mean that alliance took a large number of horde PvP community permanently. Which lead to alliance winning more Ashran, BG and gearing faster and creating even more of a bigger problem that just keep going. There is really no logical solution to this mess. Bg's have not been balanced since they were introduced. Now its Alliance, previously it was Horde ectect. Mercenary mode is a good solution for that and bringing Lore as a problem is hilarious. No one is playing pvp for Lore. The situation are completely different from the past. In the past, all they had to do was nerf or buff other racial and the game would balance out. Now the problem is that a large majority of the horde PvP community were forced to transfer to alliance to stay competent in arena. Those that transfer will never come back so it will never truly be fixed by tweaking a few numbers. Lore is pretty important because it create immersion. Immersion is very important in any MMO and blizzard are continuing to blur the line between alliance and horde which is what made Warcraft....well....Warcraft. I have read many interview and blizzard themselves said they didn't want to do it but they can not find any other solution. I guaranteed, people are going to be complaining about this in a few month from now just like they complained about LFR and other things like this but sadly this is the only solution.
Yet I have not seen them open up free Ally->Horde transfers for PvP'ers until the balance is 50-50, then closing them. How can you say there is no other solution when they literally havnt tried any?
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I find it more funny his 'solution' is to make the pvp population race switch every few months.
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United Kingdom20287 Posts
Opening free transfers is a bit risky but they could do something like that after rebalancing/removing racials
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On August 06 2015 07:14 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2015 07:09 SheaR619 wrote:On August 05 2015 20:15 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 19:41 SheaR619 wrote:On August 05 2015 18:20 FFW_Rude wrote:On August 05 2015 18:09 Gorsameth wrote:On August 05 2015 17:09 FFW_Rude wrote:
There's stuff i really don't get. I'm not a really social person in wow but at least i was forced to before. It's the same with Battle.net 2.0 for Starcraft.
Social aspects disapeared (well not completly but you get it) from Blizzard game. I don't really know if it's good or bad but i don't get the "getting rid of social" for multiplayer games. I'm one of those people that prefers to not interact with others outside my guild/friends and for its mainly because there are simply a whole lot of players around that I would rather avoid. Just look at the level of players your see in LFR. The whiners/the terrible players/the afk's/people randomly insulting others. Do I want to be forced into interacting with them? No, not really. Even in vanilla before tools were added to the game and before I got a guild I had players on my friends list who I knew could be reasonably reliable that I would ask for dungeons to avoid the random player roulette. Yes i agree. But you knew all of your guildies IRL ? Did you not have random people to join and got good friends out of 'em ? I sure did back in vanilla. Now i play only solo because i don't like alot interacting with other people mainly because i'm older now and that i don't tolerate certain thing now (i've become an ass :p). But sometimes you see someone who look nice and invite him. Thing is.. no one talks in dungeons/Raid (unless it's whining of course). It's not encouraged to play with other people. It should. It's a MMO. The game feels empty. I don't know how to explain it properly Basically there no content for PvE and PvP is completely in shamble has destroyed this expansion. The PvE can be fix but I think the PvP problem is a lost caused and will never be fixed again. Blizzard has proposed a "Mercenary" thingy which is soon to come but I think that is only a bandaid. I am laughing so hard right now at the PvP team because they are SO SCREWED that the best thing they can come up with was a "Mercenary" faction which completely destroys the immersion and lore of the game. For people who don't know, Mercenary is basically an optional que system for BG to allow shorter que time by queing yourself as the opposite faction. This is needed because alliance que time for BG were insanely long because horde weren't queing up. Horde aren't queing up because they were getting bodied in everything since all the top pvper transfered to alliance. All good horde PvPer transferred because human racial is OP to the point that NO HORDE got gladiator in season 1 for 3v3. Horde are allowed to transfer to alliance because blizzard allowed faction change which trigger this entire event. Even if blizzard removed racial from PvP it will not matter because those good horde pvper will most likely not spend the money to return to horde without some incentive to do so. This mean that alliance took a large number of horde PvP community permanently. Which lead to alliance winning more Ashran, BG and gearing faster and creating even more of a bigger problem that just keep going. There is really no logical solution to this mess. Bg's have not been balanced since they were introduced. Now its Alliance, previously it was Horde ectect. Mercenary mode is a good solution for that and bringing Lore as a problem is hilarious. No one is playing pvp for Lore. The situation are completely different from the past. In the past, all they had to do was nerf or buff other racial and the game would balance out. Now the problem is that a large majority of the horde PvP community were forced to transfer to alliance to stay competent in arena. Those that transfer will never come back so it will never truly be fixed by tweaking a few numbers. Lore is pretty important because it create immersion. Immersion is very important in any MMO and blizzard are continuing to blur the line between alliance and horde which is what made Warcraft....well....Warcraft. I have read many interview and blizzard themselves said they didn't want to do it but they can not find any other solution. I guaranteed, people are going to be complaining about this in a few month from now just like they complained about LFR and other things like this but sadly this is the only solution. Yet I have not seen them open up free Ally->Horde transfers for PvP'ers until the balance is 50-50, then closing them. How can you say there is no other solution when they literally havnt tried any?
How would you make those transfers for PvPers only?
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EPT
