EPT[wow] Warlords of Draenor - Page 290
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On December 02 2014 01:17 Firebolt145 wrote: I haven't tried any fancy achievements. I've done them both with LFG groups and with full premade groups of people who are in for their first time, and have always proceeded to kill everything fine with maybe one or two wipes total per dungeon. It may be a complete different story in challenge mode, but I have yet to experience any difficulty in heroics. Comparing Heroics to wildstar dungeons jut doesn't work - I can walk into a Heroic, have no idea what anything does, and proceed to clear it without anyone dieing. Wildstar dungeons reminded me alot of high level WoW raiding difficulty wise, only needing 5 people though (probably harder per person actually). | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
On December 02 2014 01:20 dae wrote: Comparing Heroics to wildstar dungeons jut doesn't work - I can walk into a Heroic, have no idea what anything does, and proceed to clear it without anyone dieing. Wildstar dungeons reminded me alot of high level WoW raiding difficulty wise, only needing 5 people though (probably harder per person actually). This is exactly my point, hence my surprise when Cyro said the two were equal. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21574 Posts
On December 02 2014 01:37 Firebolt145 wrote: This is exactly my point, hence my surprise when Cyro said the two were equal. he was talking about CM's tho no? If you never done them i can understand you dont see it but the difference between heroic and Challenge mode in WoD is huge. That is not to say they are impossible. 5 good players should have little problem completing them but they are a world apart from Heroic. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20284 Posts
On December 02 2014 00:35 Firebolt145 wrote: Everything else aside, unless I'm misunderstanding you WoW heroic 5 mans are nowhere even close to Wildstar's veteran dungeons. My first times in each dungeon so far has included maybe one or two wipes at most across the whole dungeon without knowing anything about the encounters. Yea that's just because gear is more of a thing in WoW. On day 2 of the expansion when everyone was in i600 gear it was much much harder with PUG's. Also when some stuff like where to stand bosses wasn't an obvious thing. I'm very surprised by the huge difficulty swing from gear and basic understanding of the fights, as well as over-dpsing them. I think trying to do HC's blindly with everyone in i600 gear, at least some of them were comparable to WS vet though. CM brings that difficulty back, then adds more; if you have good DPS and know what to do, some of the CM's seem quite easy but there are still some causing the 5 hour wipefests with guild groups of people who are not complete idiots, but just not amazing players | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
What I really dislike about this game currently is the lack of reforging. I have ilvl 640 helm but I find a normal, socketless ilvl 630 helm that is infinitely better because of one stat being swapped, it's just stupid. Oh yeah, one more thing. I did run a normal dungeon at lvl 100 a few days ago to experiment a little and the players were -awful-, like 5k DPS, no interrupts, terrible tank, terrible healer. So right now I feel very bad for people who will need to gear up through normals in order to do Heroics because I assume that the normals are full of the players who cannot get Silver Proving Grounds. | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20284 Posts
On December 02 2014 02:34 Firebolt145 wrote: I don't know if I was just lucky but the PUG groups I had for heroics upon hitting 100 three days in with 610 gear was easy, nigh comparable to WS vets. From what I read you're comparing PUG groups in WoW to focused premade groups in WS vets, which really is completely different. WS vets are not difficult when you're geared in even a PUG though. I silvered like the last 6 STL's in a row that i queued and almost golded in 1 shot with full pug go play CM anyway, blackrock spire with a group that hasn't done it before. I did wipe in HC's on quite a few bosses (some that were hard on dps/healing in i600) with a focused group, quite a bit more on hitting stuff like second boss of grimrail and people not knowing where to stand or what anything did, but it is easy if you have good DPS and some understanding of what to do and it doesn't compare to cm (which ranges from impossible to easy but difficult to do quickly, depending on your perspective, skill and more importantly, the people who are running with you) I have ilvl 640 helm but I find a normal, socketless ilvl 630 helm that is infinitely better because of one stat being swapped, it's just stupid. If your stat weights are far apart, you need to roll the right stats for a minor 10ilvl upgrade to be worth. I don't really mind, it's not NEARLY as bad as wildstar (where almost free crafted gear was better than many of the best items that dropped from raids due to similar stat RNG on a much greater level for some classes, unless you did 40 man and passed the huge cockblock first boss that took the most organized guilds around 200 wipes to kill (and 43 days of progress, ~1000 wipes for world first kill, after the last 20 man boss was down) + Show Spoiler + For example, an item would have 120 strength and 2-5 sockets. The 120 strengh would give 43 assault power and the sockets would give an average of ~18 assault power each, so if you rolled 5 good sockets, the item was worth 133AP. If you rolled no good sockets, it was worth 43AP - and every other stat was awful by comparison, particularly for 2 of the classes. You could get raid loot with a stat budget over 1.5x higher, and it wouldn't mean anything because it would make you do less damage. You could either take the good gear and do 10k damage, critting 15k occasionally - or take the flat AP gear with no other stats and just do 14k damage on every hit, because damage return vs crit and other stats was overtuned so much In this game if you go 630 to 655, even with a suboptimal stat, the raw amount of strength, stamina and the higher numbers on the secondary stats basically guarantee it to be an upgrade for me - and that's only 630 to 655, this tier ranges from 615 (normals) to ~695 (mythic) and it's just the first tier | ||
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futsel
163 Posts
I have only recently got lvl 100, should I do random dungeons or specific ones? You used to go to the specific place for an item, but now it seems like every piece of gear drops everywhere. Saw this somewhere earlier, what's reforging? How and why do you reforge items? Also, there is small chance of getting upgrades from the quest items, does the same apply to drops? (I'm just doing normals atm) Am I a complete noob to think that paladin's healing is tough? I did tanking and healing but decided to stick to healing atm because it's really challenging. I read some guides, but I'm still struggling to keep people up sometimes. I've completed the pandaria challenge thingy (gold). Any advice? Speaking of challenges: what the hell are the challenge modes? I know there's a timer, but are bosses/trash have any extra abilities? And what are the rewards? Garrisons: do I wait to upgrade the town hall to lvl 3 or do I upgrade all other buildings first? What would be better? Sorry for so many questions, but it's a bit confusing for me, since the game has changed so much. Also I don't really have friends who play the game anymore, so if anyone would like to, they can add me to friends (so I would bother you in-game) "futsel#2657" | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
If anything, the annoying decision isn't wether something is an upgrade, but how valuable that upgrade is vs selling some boe piece of gear for 10k g at the very least On December 02 2014 03:35 futsel wrote: Hello, everyone. I haven't played wow since the 3.3 patch (pre-Icecrown) but decided to come back and, oh God, I have so many questions. I have only recently got lvl 100, should I do random dungeons or specific ones? You used to go to the specific place for an item, but now it seems like every piece of gear drops everywhere. Saw this somewhere earlier, what's reforging? How and why do you reforge items? Also, there is small chance of getting upgrades from the quest items, does the same apply to drops? (I'm just doing normals atm) Am I a complete noob to think that paladin's healing is tough? I did tanking and healing but decided to stick to healing atm because it's really challenging. I read some guides, but I'm still struggling to keep people up sometimes. I've completed the pandaria challenge thingy (gold). Any advice? Speaking of challenges: what the hell are the challenge modes? I know there's a timer, but are bosses/trash have any extra abilities? And what are the rewards? Garrisons: do I wait to upgrade the town hall to lvl 3 or do I upgrade all other buildings first? What would be better? Sorry for so many questions, but it's a bit confusing for me, since the game has changed so much. Also I don't really have friends who play the game anymore, so if anyone would like to, they can add me to friends (so I would bother you in-game) "futsel#2657" If you first hit 100 you need so many ugprades you might as well run every dungeon. Reforging has been removed from the game; you used to be able to change some of a secondary stat of an item into another secondary; for example, if you were above the hit cap you could lose some +hit to gain haste, crit or mastery. No idea about the current state of Paladin healing. Challenge modes are a step up in difficulty from Heroic 5man dungeons; they are harder and timed. Depending on your time you can get a title or transmog weapon specific to your class. Additionally, you can get a daily to complete a specific dungeon in challenge mode to get a random ilvl 640 (so better than heroics) item that is suited to your spec. You need a lvl 3 garrison to upgrade anything past level 2. Until then i'd go lvl 2 garrison (which you can do at lvl 92) > buildings at lvl 2 > hit 100 and see what you need. My bnet tag is Teo#2727 | ||
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futsel
163 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:39 Teoita wrote: If you first hit 100 you need so many ugprades you might as well run every dungeon. Reforging has been removed from the game; you used to be able to change some of a secondary stat of an item into another secondary; for example, if you were above the hit cap you could lose some +hit to gain haste, crit or mastery. No idea about the current state of Paladin healing. Challenge modes are a step up in difficulty from Heroic 5man dungeons; they are harder and timed. Depending on your time you can get a title or transmog weapon specific to your class. Additionally, you can get a daily to complete a specific dungeon in challenge mode to get a random ilvl 640 (so better than heroics) item that is suited to your spec. You need a lvl 3 garrison to upgrade anything past level 2. Until then i'd go lvl 2 garrison (which you can do at lvl 92) > buildings at lvl 2 > hit 100 and see what you need. My bnet tag is Teo#2727 Cool, thanks. I'm at work all day today, so I'll add you tomorrow. But is there a specific loot table for each dungeon, so that in the end I'll end up farming the same place over and over again untill I get an upgrade? Also, how harder are the CM to heroics? Is it just more health+damage or is there some added flavour as well (more abilities)? | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
On December 02 2014 02:38 deth2munkies wrote: I dunno, I never played Wildstar, but I did end up watching a friend run a dungeon all the way through (some ice thing, no idea what it was called). Looked pretty much like modern day WoW: big indicators telling you to move, then heal and DPS as normal. We should avoid derailing this thread any further, but suffice to say a lot of people made that argument and it is actually much more than that.  | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:52 futsel wrote: Cool, thanks. I'm at work all day today, so I'll add you tomorrow. But is there a specific loot table for each dungeon, so that in the end I'll end up farming the same place over and over again untill I get an upgrade? Also, how harder are the CM to heroics? Is it just more health+damage or is there some added flavour as well (more abilities)? More hp/damage, and mechanic changes. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:52 futsel wrote: Cool, thanks. I'm at work all day today, so I'll add you tomorrow. But is there a specific loot table for each dungeon, so that in the end I'll end up farming the same place over and over again untill I get an upgrade? Also, how harder are the CM to heroics? Is it just more health+damage or is there some added flavour as well (more abilities)? There are specific loot tables but they are huge and i feel like some items are shared. I'm actually not sure, but you can check out the exact drops ingame, there's a function that works like atlasloot now. CM's are way way way harder. Mechanics are basically the same, but they are pretty unforgiving even for a prepared group. In heroics after only like two weeks we've already gotten to the point where wiping is almost impossible if your group is anywhere near competent. | ||
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Tephus
Cascadia1753 Posts
Ground AoE on most bosses seem to be permanent, or nearly. Some debuffs are no longer dispellable. (I think?) Bosses will do 'harder' versions of their mechanic. A good example in general is Skyreach. The second boss does more beams you need to block, the third boss has phx dust basically everywhere (you end up just kiting them), and on the last boss, the entire platform can get covered in that lens fire stuff. | ||
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futsel
163 Posts
On December 02 2014 04:24 Tephus wrote: I'll expand on CM mechanic changes, from the point of view of a healer: Ground AoE on most bosses seem to be permanent, or nearly. Some debuffs are no longer dispellable. (I think?) Bosses will do 'harder' versions of their mechanic. A good example in general is Skyreach. The second boss does more beams you need to block, the third boss has phx dust basically everywhere (you end up just kiting them), and on the last boss, the entire platform can get covered in that lens fire stuff. Wow, that sounds awesome. But then if Challenge Modes are that hard, what do they reward you with compared to raids? Plus there are so many raid difficulties: it's confusing. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20284 Posts
A good example in general is Skyreach. The second boss does more beams you need to block They also heal the boss a lot more if you don't block them and hit you much harder if you do. I did HC without even really being aware of that mechanic, but it's most of the difficulty in CM (blocking the beams effectively and not dieing to the huge AOE burst after when everyone is very low HP from beam blocking between defensive+healer cd's) CM's reward you with a title (all bronze), a mount (all silver) or some of the best weapon/shield etc transmogs in the game (all gold) - it's something to work on over the next 1-2 years. Right now they give the 640's, which are useful for gearing up into the first tier, as right now it's some of the best gear available and in the future when we have LFR and other raid difficulties, you'll still get ~7 loot drops from CM per week, and probably not that many good 640-655+ from raids | ||
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Firebolt145
Lalalaland34486 Posts
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