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On October 12 2014 21:15 m4ini wrote:
For PvE, i actually main a druid at the moment (for the longest part resto, just finished farming cat-gear and changed spec), and i'm kinda content with it. Feral appears to be one of the few specs that's decently fun to play. Which is good, because my other choices would've been a warrior (..) or shaman, which both suck ballsack in WoD (again, not talking damagewise, don't know the numbers).
About the HoT-centric niche, i think it's more good than bad if properly implemented. But it won't make them shy away from PvP, in fact, that niche was what made them so retardedly strong in the earlier seasons (especially LB, and obviously paired with clone). Although, it was a bit different, nowadays you just punch through the HoTs, back in the days you had to dispel them or you wouldn't be able to kill anything (which made LB so strong). Depending on how the numbers turn out (didn't see the damage/healing in PvP yet), might work again.
The problem is that they can't react to burst well and run OOM very fast spamming HoTs. They're probably the best raid healers in the game simply because they still have the most instants and are good at healing constant damage, but in PvP where stuff is really bursty, they don't have enough survivability CDs anymore.
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Depending on the damage in PvP. As it is now, i'd agree. As it is in WoD, i wouldn't hold my breath. Especially since in the first couple of seasons, melees most likely will be the problem, not casters.
It obviously depends on balancing, but in general, PvP in WoD won't be nowhere near as bursty as it is now. And druids can peel melees quite well - they didn't have big instants in S3 (well, NS/HT, but that's really it), and even less survivabilitybuttons. It was simply the fact that you couldn't global somebody.
Not to mention that the problem you describe is a 3v3 problem, not a 2v2 (where i learned to despite them).
edit: in 3v3 (we played RMP at first) we pooped on druids. Never really was a problem.
edit2: will never forget the hoops we jumped through to take a druid out (running like a chicken to finally fear him, into blind, into vanish/sap, into fear again - and all that time wasn't enough to kill a warlock with a nuking disc/rogue).
Mana is no problem in 2s, with a decent mate you can always drink. That's another part why druids were op, if they wanted to drink, then they could, even if its only for 2-3 ticks. But against druids, you can't - since they shapeshifted out of every snare and got you immediately into combat again. -.-
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On October 12 2014 21:15 m4ini wrote:
For PvE, i actually main a druid at the moment (for the longest part resto, just finished farming cat-gear and changed spec), and i'm kinda content with it. Feral appears to be one of the few specs that's decently fun to play. Which is good, because my other choices would've been a warrior (..) or shaman, which both suck ballsack in WoD (again, not talking damagewise, don't know the numbers).
About the HoT-centric niche, i think it's more good than bad if properly implemented. But it won't make them shy away from PvP, in fact, that niche was what made them so retardedly strong in the earlier seasons (especially LB, and obviously paired with clone). Although, it was a bit different, nowadays you just punch through the HoTs, back in the days you had to dispel them or you wouldn't be able to kill anything (which made LB so strong). Depending on how the numbers turn out (didn't see the damage/healing in PvP yet), might work again.
Prot warrior and ele shaman most certainly do not suck ball sack. Agree with the rest
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Well. There's warries who don't like tanking, and play them as DPS. Maybe i should've clarified. After healing/tanking for basically all the expansions, i'm playing DPS now. Warri-DPS and shamans certainly suck. I ask you to read up on especially eleshamans, which are shoehorned into spells which actually are really bad (earthquake necessitiy).
Especially in raid enviroments, with simply no option of fight while moving (apart from being dependant on hunters now), it won't be any fun. They don't even bring any raid-support, they're redundant. Not to mention, you don't even actively chose between AoE and singletarget anymore, since (like warriors), AoE is now part of the singletarget rotation as well.
Regardless of what celestalon said (EQ not necessary, just a slight bonus to DPS if you use it), so far for everything he said, the reality was the complete opposite.
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If you wanne play dps warrior and dont like fury/arms go Glad.
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Nah, as i said, i stick with feral.
Maybe a gladiator as toon, although before that, i'll finish leveling my mage (finally, after like 8 years of not finishing it).
edit: problem with that though is that there's arms/furies out there right now, which are literally forced to respec or die of boredom while playing their class. It's not that i don't like fury/arms right now, arms is alot of fun - it won't be after wednesday though.
I certainly will get popcorn ready for wednesday, if all the uninformed people get hit by that wreckingball.
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On October 12 2014 22:55 m4ini wrote:
Well. There's warries who don't like tanking, and play them as DPS. Maybe i should've clarified. After healing/tanking for basically all the expansions, i'm playing DPS now. Warri-DPS and shamans certainly suck. I ask you to read up on especially eleshamans, which are shoehorned into spells which actually are really bad (earthquake necessitiy).
Especially in raid enviroments, with simply no option of fight while moving (apart from being dependant on hunters now), it won't be any fun. They don't even bring any raid-support, they're redundant. Not to mention, you don't even actively chose between AoE and singletarget anymore, since (like warriors), AoE is now part of the singletarget rotation as well.
Regardless of what celestalon said (EQ not necessary, just a slight bonus to DPS if you use it), so far for everything he said, the reality was the complete opposite.
Ele shaman numbers are fine. As far as pure dps "rotations" go it's not the best but the utility you bring outside of your damage is why I enjoy the spec. I'd agree that warrior dps isn't something I'd want to play at the moment.
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On October 12 2014 23:07 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 22:55 m4ini wrote:
Well. There's warries who don't like tanking, and play them as DPS. Maybe i should've clarified. After healing/tanking for basically all the expansions, i'm playing DPS now. Warri-DPS and shamans certainly suck. I ask you to read up on especially eleshamans, which are shoehorned into spells which actually are really bad (earthquake necessitiy).
Especially in raid enviroments, with simply no option of fight while moving (apart from being dependant on hunters now), it won't be any fun. They don't even bring any raid-support, they're redundant. Not to mention, you don't even actively chose between AoE and singletarget anymore, since (like warriors), AoE is now part of the singletarget rotation as well.
Regardless of what celestalon said (EQ not necessary, just a slight bonus to DPS if you use it), so far for everything he said, the reality was the complete opposite. As far as pure dps "rotations" go it's not the best but the utility you bring outside of your damage is why I enjoy the spec
Apart from being on the bottom three in DPS (which doesn't really matter to me), what utility does an eleshaman bring to the raid in WoD?
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On October 12 2014 23:27 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 23:07 Yorkie wrote:On October 12 2014 22:55 m4ini wrote:
Well. There's warries who don't like tanking, and play them as DPS. Maybe i should've clarified. After healing/tanking for basically all the expansions, i'm playing DPS now. Warri-DPS and shamans certainly suck. I ask you to read up on especially eleshamans, which are shoehorned into spells which actually are really bad (earthquake necessitiy).
Especially in raid enviroments, with simply no option of fight while moving (apart from being dependant on hunters now), it won't be any fun. They don't even bring any raid-support, they're redundant. Not to mention, you don't even actively chose between AoE and singletarget anymore, since (like warriors), AoE is now part of the singletarget rotation as well.
Regardless of what celestalon said (EQ not necessary, just a slight bonus to DPS if you use it), so far for everything he said, the reality was the complete opposite. As far as pure dps "rotations" go it's not the best but the utility you bring outside of your damage is why I enjoy the spec Apart from being on the bottom three in DPS (which doesn't really matter to me), what utility does an eleshaman bring to the raid in WoD?
From what I've seen they're middle of the pack in dps, not bottom three. As far as utility goes, just the standard lust, totems, decurse, purge. Not every raid encounter calls for all of this, but it's nice to have. I'm not a shaman main by any means, but I just felt you were underselling them a bit
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On October 12 2014 23:37 Yorkie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 23:27 m4ini wrote:On October 12 2014 23:07 Yorkie wrote:On October 12 2014 22:55 m4ini wrote:
Well. There's warries who don't like tanking, and play them as DPS. Maybe i should've clarified. After healing/tanking for basically all the expansions, i'm playing DPS now. Warri-DPS and shamans certainly suck. I ask you to read up on especially eleshamans, which are shoehorned into spells which actually are really bad (earthquake necessitiy).
Especially in raid enviroments, with simply no option of fight while moving (apart from being dependant on hunters now), it won't be any fun. They don't even bring any raid-support, they're redundant. Not to mention, you don't even actively chose between AoE and singletarget anymore, since (like warriors), AoE is now part of the singletarget rotation as well.
Regardless of what celestalon said (EQ not necessary, just a slight bonus to DPS if you use it), so far for everything he said, the reality was the complete opposite. As far as pure dps "rotations" go it's not the best but the utility you bring outside of your damage is why I enjoy the spec Apart from being on the bottom three in DPS (which doesn't really matter to me), what utility does an eleshaman bring to the raid in WoD? From what I've seen they're middle of the pack in dos, not bottom three. As far as utility goes, just the standard lust, totems, decurse, purge. Not every raid encounter calls for all of this, but it's nice to have. I'm not a shaman main by any means, but I just felt you were underselling them a bit
I'm not underselling them. I tell you (rather, relay) what it is.
Lust: redundant, no need for eles. Especially since the other class that is able to bring it also has a pretty powerful raid-CD with amplify magic. Damage, as you said, meh - no need for eles. Buffs come with basically every other class, redundant, no need specifically for an ele (even though it makes it easier to get the buffs). Decurse VERY situational, and in general as DPS not your job (in fact, i don't know any encounter in WoD that'd call for a DPS class to support decursing). Purge is an upside, can be done by enhancers and priests etc too. On top of that, hunters 5% below shamans in DPS in a patchwork fight, the fights i saw involved alot of movement. Which hunters can easily deal with, a shaman can't anymore, not to mention that they have a huge raid-CD as well. Mages as much as hunters are stackable, shamans are not (one's enough for all the utility, hunter/mage raidCD doesn't have a debuff [so far]) - so, in total, shamans are pretty screwed. And that's not just me saying that, it's pretty much every single shaman saying that.
I do like shamans (well, ele and resto, didn't like enhancer), but as my main, i wouldn't chose one. Being the third wheel on the bike is a shitty feeling, would take away all the fun. As a toon, fair enough, good enough - but i would be extremely upset if the shaman would've been the toon i farmed the legendary cloak for, lets put it that way. ^^
Which brings me back to my general opinion, that these designers are monkeys. They made all buffs redundant so you didn't need to stack certain classes, and there you are - mages and hunters with new, unique, stackable raid CDs on top of pretty good damage.
edit: to be clear here, eleshamans in normal raids won't lose their spot. That's not what i'm talking about. As a healer/tank-player, i personally want to be and feel useful to a raid though. And an eleshaman doesn't do that anymore, in no aspect whatsoever. Neither damage, nor utility, nothing. As i said, nobody would lose their raidspot, but to me (and literally every other shaman i saw comment on that), that's kinda not what i am looking for.
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Could you stop boosting this infernal thread, please?
Seriously, just reading this unintelligible arena stuff makes me want to get back into the game so badly, but it's such a tremendous waste of time...
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What's unintelligible with that arena stuff? Didn't read any actual in-depth stuff (well, didn't read the whole thread to be fair).
I 100% agree with the latter part though, it is. But a joyful waste.
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Italy12248 Posts
Seriously this thread has devolved into a bunch of whiny histerical girls complaining. None here does cutting-edge, world first progression, and for the average player every class is perfectly viable. This is like a bunch of master's (or well, not pro overall) sc2 players complaining about balance.
Saying class mechanics are bad is one thing (lol fury warriors), complaining that a class is not viable is fucking dumb because unless you go for server firsts and the like (and i doubt anyone here does) it really doesn't matter.
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Devolved? I've detected relatively little change over the past few months 
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On October 13 2014 00:19 Teoita wrote:
Seriously this thread has devolved into a bunch of whiny histerical girls complaining. None here does cutting-edge, world first progression, and for the average player every class is perfectly viable. This is like a bunch of master's (or well, not pro overall) sc2 players complaining about balance.
Saying class mechanics are bad is one thing (lol fury warriors), complaining that a class is not viable is fucking dumb because unless you go for server firsts and the like (and i doubt anyone here does) it really doesn't matter.
Pretty sure serejai is an 18 time rank 1 glad, who's also world first dps rankings on every fight in tot on 7 different boomkins. So you're pretty clearly wrong
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Also he has a lot of money
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Italy12248 Posts
And he isn't bitching about boomkin numbers, he's bitching about boomkin mechanics
also lol
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On October 13 2014 00:19 Teoita wrote:
Seriously this thread has devolved into a bunch of whiny histerical girls complaining. None here does cutting-edge, world first progression, and for the average player every class is perfectly viable. This is like a bunch of master's (or well, not pro overall) sc2 players complaining about balance.
Saying class mechanics are bad is one thing (lol fury warriors), complaining that a class is not viable is fucking dumb because unless you go for server firsts and the like (and i doubt anyone here does) it really doesn't matter.
I think it's just a vocabulary difference between "unviable" and "unoptimal", as plenty of things are perfectly viable but unoptimal. Luckily, WoW has never required every individual to play the optimal spec optimally to advance.
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On October 13 2014 00:22 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2014 00:19 Teoita wrote:
Seriously this thread has devolved into a bunch of whiny histerical girls complaining. None here does cutting-edge, world first progression, and for the average player every class is perfectly viable. This is like a bunch of master's (or well, not pro overall) sc2 players complaining about balance.
Saying class mechanics are bad is one thing (lol fury warriors), complaining that a class is not viable is fucking dumb because unless you go for server firsts and the like (and i doubt anyone here does) it really doesn't matter. Pretty sure serejai is an 18 time rank 1 glad, who's also world first dps rankings on every fight in tot on 7 different boomkins. So you're pretty clearly wrong
just dont listen tot hat guy when he posts, makes such outrageous claims with no sources, and ignores anytime ia sked for them lol
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On the other hand, bad/average players can use any help as they can to perform averagely, hence use optimal builds or the ones that perform well with little skill. 4Gate/ 11/11 for life.
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EPT
