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Just my opinion: Yes those pretenders are OP as hell in their current state, no point in arguing about that.
But: In this game, the skill level of all participants vary greatly, and entropius is probably not the best out of these. (Sorry :D) So he will make enough mistakes to compensate. Caelum has already announced the usage of these pretenders, so making some extraban for Ragha because of these feels... stupid. So imho it should just be allowed, and there are certainly other not perfectly balanced things in the game as well, which we will see in our game for sure :D (not even talking about some random events, which can have a huge impact to screw a player or open pathes...)
I would certainly more opposed to it, if it all went like some veteran going "yolo, first pick, first wins, Ragha, roflcopter, you all lose" but I don't see this being the case here.
So let's reduce the whine and stop taking things too serious. It's all fun (until they siege your capital)
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Heh. I'll probably be in the expansion path of one of the veterans anyway. I also have a very limited knowledge of how to run an efficient magic booster economy, so I'll have to pick it up as I go. When I see players burn through their gems like candy I have the feeling I'm missing something with my piles of unused gems.
I was looking through the heroes as well and boy did they improve them. I recall the Caelum heroes were utter crap in vanilla compared to what some other nations get.
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Except I pointed out going into this game way back that we ban Ragha with Lord Tolkien agreeing so at the very least there are two people who went in picking nations thinking Ragha was banned.
LA Caelum is so subpar and the pilot announced full well that this was his first few MP games. Ragha doesn't need the extra tools at all.
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Come on, make some pretenders for the LA game so we get to start it soon 
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spoiler: Marignon has prepared a superrushstrategy, that why he is so eager to start!
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Bring it on, Sailor Moon!
...
... or Sailor Sun, I guess. Does someone plan on freezing the seas at some point in the game? Though that would piss off Atlantis as well. 
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On July 08 2014 21:04 mahrgell wrote:
spoiler: Marignon has prepared a superrushstrategy, that why he is so eager to start!
Oh yeah, I'm so eager to show you all the "power" of my flagellants!
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Jeez tbh I am not looking forward to this coming game. First time probably gonna get crushed >.<
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when I organize a LA game, everyone must ban 1 nation, not just those that the mainstream don't like ( lemuria rlyeh)
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On July 08 2014 22:18 xuanzue wrote:
when I organize a LA game, everyone must ban 1 nation, not just those that the mainstream don't like ( lemuria rlyeh)
I hope we one day get to organize a game here where those countries are welcome too. I'd love to try Lemuria, though I'd probably get totally crushed with them.
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I was hoping to play Ragha because they're flavorful and nifty, not because I want to be overpowered
If they are banned, I'll play one of the unclaimed nations: Man, Pangaea, Arcosephale, or possibly C'tis.
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about the Ragha situation: I still stand with my post above, but I guess we could compromise on allowing Ragha, but banning the 0 cost chassis from usage (only for ragha, caelum may use his)
Oh yeah and... submit your pretenders, I said I aim for a start tonight ^^ (and this meant european time)
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On July 08 2014 22:47 mahrgell wrote:
about the Ragha situation: I still stand with my post above, but I guess we could compromise on allowing Ragha, but banning the 0 cost chassis from usage (only for ragha, caelum may use his)
Oh yeah and... submit your pretenders, I said I aim for a start tonight ^^ (and this meant european time)
Ah, now I feel bad for bringing this up; I didn't want to create a dispute over Ragha. :-/
If the start is less than three hours from now, I can edge a turn in; otherwise it will have to wait until tomorrow KST.
Don't worry jaybrundage, I'm sure you will outlive my pack of birdbrains.
By the way, is there a specific chat service we'll be using?
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On July 08 2014 23:17 scFoX wrote:
By the way, is there a specific chat service we'll be using?
I think most used TL-PMs or Skype until now  But I can't speak for everyone ^^
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On July 08 2014 22:47 mahrgell wrote:
about the Ragha situation: I still stand with my post above, but I guess we could compromise on allowing Ragha, but banning the 0 cost chassis from usage (only for ragha, caelum may use his)
Oh yeah and... submit your pretenders, I said I aim for a start tonight ^^ (and this meant european time)
You really think those 0 cost chassis are the only OP thing? Those aren't even the best pretender choices ...
This is to say nothing about the fact that Ragha gets free 120 scales from heat, free gem gen, level 2 artifact, better LA mages, can blind expo turn one and top 5 expo/early game troops. Their only "weakness" is the fact that their temples cost 800 but they're gem generators. That's not to say they're completely unstoppable. Any nation can be ganged up on but they're very overbearing to any neighbors.
LA Lemuria shouldn't be banned and LA Ryleh isn't even banned, there's just recommendations against using them because LA Lemuria is harder for new players to counter and LA Ryleh are hard to use and aren't that good.
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Isn't it also a weakness that they can recruit some of their units only in hot provinces and some only in cold provinces?
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I think there is no more reason for the discussion, as entropius is now playing Man again as initially planned
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On July 09 2014 05:47 Icapica wrote:
Isn't it also a weakness that they can recruit some of their units only in hot provinces and some only in cold provinces?
No because you don't need your cold side at all. If you really want them, fort a province next to a cold nation or build it on top of cold sites. Units wise you should be building your superior abysian side anyway. You'd only want the cold side for mages.
On July 09 2014 05:49 mahrgell wrote:
I think there is no more reason for the discussion, as entropius is now playing Man again as initially planned
I think it sounded like a bigger deal than it was because internet.
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On July 08 2014 13:11 entropius wrote:
Is it OP? I mean, they get better pretender chassis, but Tolkien's opinion (who's probably the most experienced guy here) is that it's just a racial advantage, like Arco's dominion spying mechanic or similar. It's a nice flavor for the Zoroastrian nations.
I will state that Kiss is probably just as if not more experienced than I am (he has probably WON MP games: I've had probably a 12 game losing streak here doing silly shit in MP ) .
That being said, Ragha will be banned for this game. I disagree with Kiss about Ragha, however: while I agree that have some really nice shit, they NEED those points because their scales need to be good to afford their ridiculously expensive mages. Going H3/C3 still impacts their income and mitigates the effect of O3G3 (which they absolutely need, maybe even Productivity). They do not have cheap lab rats: 100/1 for their cheapest mage (and blood hunter, which is a 1/3 random), and their standard battle mages are ~210-5 apiece, or 220-225 STR (good and comparable to Starets), AND they need to build an expensive as all heck 800 gold temple to start pumping out their basic researchers (not for the STR mages, but...still). The Gryphons are fantastic sacreds, but being 125/60 REALLY limits how many you can put out, on top of the other major gold sinks (research centers will be a bitch to afford, etc).
Then again, just like Ashdod, it may turn out that these gold sinks aren't large enough and they can afford to tap all of their potential power. To me, their power isn't ridiculous as of yet, and just needs some tuning. They're not comparable to LA Ulm, for instance, which upon comparison is definitively better than Ragha (and probably competes for the title of best LA nation with the likes of Mictlan and Atlantis), because LA Ulm has the exact opposite situation as Ragha does: LA Ulm has incredibly cheap recruitment centers with relatively cheap Illuminati recruitable everywhere with a lab (not as cheap as Ice/Iron Crafters, which are probably the benchmark, but close), which means super-fast research/blood economy, on top of the other goodies LA Ulm has (like Edward Cullens, and free patrol chaff, and Iron Blizzards, and un-mindhuntable spy communions, and undead Guardians).
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So you say we should ban LA Ulm? :D:D:D:D
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EPT
