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It was starting to look like boring friday, but Back2Warcraft to the rescue!
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https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/top
Hello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games
Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
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On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topShow nested quote +Hello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Show nested quote +Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
This is quite interesting. A PTR server indicates potential balance changes; or at least, it makes it more likely that they are indeed headed that way. I wonder if they'll remove the delay on it?
Also, gotta stand by what the others are saying Neo, you guys are awesome. It's amazing the effort you put in and you deserve all our love for it. Thanks for bringing the scene to us Westerners!
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On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topShow nested quote +Hello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Show nested quote +Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop?
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Johto4991 Posts
On May 12 2017 23:49 Spaylz wrote:
This is quite interesting. A PTR server indicates potential balance changes; or at least, it makes it more likely that they are indeed headed that way. I wonder if they'll remove the delay on it?
Also, gotta stand by what the others are saying Neo, you guys are awesome. It's amazing the effort you put in and you deserve all our love for it. Thanks for bringing the scene to us Westerners!
Well, Brood War had a PTR for the most recent patch without real balance changes. Just the code changes in the backend alone were worth that.
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On May 13 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topHello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop? Make the game all around more boring for the sake of balance. No thanks. Hopefully they'll just focus on fixing the 1.28 map issues and maybe make the game use widescreen without mouse lag.
edit. And of course ban the obvious hackers and remove bnet delay.
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On May 13 2017 01:48 Weavel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topHello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop? Make the game all around more boring for the sake of balance. No thanks. Hopefully they'll just focus on fixing the 1.28 map issues and maybe make the game use widescreen without mouse lag. edit. And of course ban the obvious hackers and remove bnet delay.
What? You'd say tome of exp, book of dead and claws are not just blatantly incorrect at this point? Even if we set aside claws, tome of exp and book of dead are game winning. If I opt for a fiend heavy opener against Orc, and I get book of dead, I win that game. There are no 2 ways about it.
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On May 13 2017 02:31 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2017 01:48 Weavel wrote:On May 13 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topHello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop? Make the game all around more boring for the sake of balance. No thanks. Hopefully they'll just focus on fixing the 1.28 map issues and maybe make the game use widescreen without mouse lag. edit. And of course ban the obvious hackers and remove bnet delay. What? You'd say tome of exp, book of dead and claws are not just blatantly incorrect at this point? Even if we set aside claws, tome of exp and book of dead are game winning. If I opt for a fiend heavy opener against Orc, and I get book of dead, I win that game. There are no 2 ways about it.
The items in the game are fine. Sure, there can be some pretty heavy RNG to it, but I don't think it's as bad as the BM's critical strike.
Thinking Blizzard will reduce the RNG in WC3 is setting yourself up for disappointment; whether you like it or not, it's a significant part of the game, from the position you spawn in on the map to the items you get, and much more.
Personally, if I were to tweak the game, I would make exactly two changes:
- Reduce armor/armor gain on Agility heroes
- Reduce the damage/proc rate of Critical Strike, possibly make it so it can't proc twice in a row
The rest would be addressed through new maps. Maps play a huge, huge role in the current metagame and new viable and interesting maps would shake up the game a whole lot. If they got more creative and introduced new map-related mechanics, e.g. the permanent ward on TR, it'd create entire new dynamics.
I hope a brand new mappool consisting of well-made and thought out maps is part of their plan.
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I had one of those annoyingly long naps today. One of those that fucks your sleep for the night, where you wake up groggy and just want it to be the next day already. In my nappy state, I had dreams of War3. I woke up so angry that I could not log in and play some good old RoC 1.05. That patch was the pinnacle of the game, and it never had a tournament scene to see who was really the best. I'm never really nostalgic about War3 but fuck I want to play 1.05
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@Shriek hehe. Was that the one, where Human casters were so broken? Or was it the time with the movement bug?
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Warcraft 3 did have a PTR server back in the days, so im excited to see them bring it back. The big question will be, if they will start touching on the fundamentals of the game. (Item drop, Racial advantages, RNG with items, random crit/evasion, changes to agility heroes, access to early dispell)
I have a feeling that Undead will get buffed in the new patch but at this point, I just hope that they will improve the standard of living so both veterans and newer players have a chance to get back into the games without being abused by hackers.
Btw. Great games in the GCS Western Qualifers
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I don't know how to consolidate my thoughts on Happy. I don't think I'm aware of any scene where the scene is dominated by someone with so little motivation and aspiration.
I don't blame him as a person, but I find his success annoying because of him flaking/not caring. I guess it's not his fault but other motivated people not matching and overcoming him, I guess.
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On May 13 2017 10:18 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2017 02:31 Mohdoo wrote:On May 13 2017 01:48 Weavel wrote:On May 13 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topHello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop? Make the game all around more boring for the sake of balance. No thanks. Hopefully they'll just focus on fixing the 1.28 map issues and maybe make the game use widescreen without mouse lag. edit. And of course ban the obvious hackers and remove bnet delay. What? You'd say tome of exp, book of dead and claws are not just blatantly incorrect at this point? Even if we set aside claws, tome of exp and book of dead are game winning. If I opt for a fiend heavy opener against Orc, and I get book of dead, I win that game. There are no 2 ways about it. The items in the game are fine. Sure, there can be some pretty heavy RNG to it, but I don't think it's as bad as the BM's critical strike. Thinking Blizzard will reduce the RNG in WC3 is setting yourself up for disappointment; whether you like it or not, it's a significant part of the game, from the position you spawn in on the map to the items you get, and much more. Personally, if I were to tweak the game, I would make exactly two changes: - Reduce armor/armor gain on Agility heroes - Reduce the damage/proc rate of Critical Strike, possibly make it so it can't proc twice in a row The rest would be addressed through new maps. Maps play a huge, huge role in the current metagame and new viable and interesting maps would shake up the game a whole lot. If they got more creative and introduced new map-related mechanics, e.g. the permanent ward on TR, it'd create entire new dynamics. I hope a brand new mappool consisting of well-made and thought out maps is part of their plan.
Items are not fine. Book of Necro is an instant win for certain races on certain maps. Game's should never come down to an absolute coin flip of who gets what items. At high level Wc3 play certain items were basically auto wins.
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On May 15 2017 00:09 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2017 10:18 Spaylz wrote:On May 13 2017 02:31 Mohdoo wrote:On May 13 2017 01:48 Weavel wrote:On May 13 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topHello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop? Make the game all around more boring for the sake of balance. No thanks. Hopefully they'll just focus on fixing the 1.28 map issues and maybe make the game use widescreen without mouse lag. edit. And of course ban the obvious hackers and remove bnet delay. What? You'd say tome of exp, book of dead and claws are not just blatantly incorrect at this point? Even if we set aside claws, tome of exp and book of dead are game winning. If I opt for a fiend heavy opener against Orc, and I get book of dead, I win that game. There are no 2 ways about it. The items in the game are fine. Sure, there can be some pretty heavy RNG to it, but I don't think it's as bad as the BM's critical strike. Thinking Blizzard will reduce the RNG in WC3 is setting yourself up for disappointment; whether you like it or not, it's a significant part of the game, from the position you spawn in on the map to the items you get, and much more. Personally, if I were to tweak the game, I would make exactly two changes: - Reduce armor/armor gain on Agility heroes - Reduce the damage/proc rate of Critical Strike, possibly make it so it can't proc twice in a row The rest would be addressed through new maps. Maps play a huge, huge role in the current metagame and new viable and interesting maps would shake up the game a whole lot. If they got more creative and introduced new map-related mechanics, e.g. the permanent ward on TR, it'd create entire new dynamics. I hope a brand new mappool consisting of well-made and thought out maps is part of their plan. Items are not fine. Book of Necro is an instant win for certain races on certain maps. Game's should never come down to an absolute coin flip of who gets what items. At high level Wc3 play certain items were basically auto wins.
I recognize that. I recently watched a stream from a former top level French player who still plays from time to time, and is pretty good, and he had to face an Orc on Ancient Isles. The Orc got Book of the Dead, came into his base, popped it and coupled it with speed scroll and trashed his acolytes. There was little he could do.
But my thinking is that the problem here isn't the item, but the fact that it's on this particular map. Book of the Dead on a bigger map, say Gnoll Wood (not a great example I know), or on 2v2 maps, would be largely fine.
I certainly wasn't advocating for every item to be available on every map. I think map balance included not only the layout, but also what items can be found on what creep camps. It's a big part too. My point was more about the presence of RNG in the game, and its unlikeliness to be removed, as RNG is in nearly every aspect of it: items, map spawns, attack range, etc...
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On May 15 2017 07:39 Spaylz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2017 00:09 superstartran wrote:On May 13 2017 10:18 Spaylz wrote:On May 13 2017 02:31 Mohdoo wrote:On May 13 2017 01:48 Weavel wrote:On May 13 2017 00:34 Mohdoo wrote:On May 12 2017 23:26 lestye wrote:https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topHello,
Classic Games has been working hard on Warcraft III. The 1.28 patch didn’t hit all the marks we hold ourselves to. We’ve been making a lot of changes behind the scenes to make future work faster and more reliable.
Patching and installation, CD keys, data migration, missing files from MPQs, usernames and file paths with UTF-8 characters, screen modes, order ID’s broke popular non-blizzard maps, and Mac specific issues were fallout from those improvements. We are working hard to address all the issues that you’ve brought to our attention. We appreciate your patience and involvement.
Improving these classic codebases comes with its share of hazards, and we’re glad to partner with you on the endeavor. The better you communicate needs, wants, or bugs for the game, the more effective we will be at building a better Warcraft III.
As we move forward, there will be quality of life game improvements, editor updates, new map pools, balance tweaks, and more. The recent patch was an important step in paving the way for the bigger ticket items that you all want. Please continue to give us constructive feedback, let us know where we missed, and what you want us to do!
Thank you,
Matt Morris
Lead Designer, Classic Games Our plan is to set up a PTR for Warcraft III, so that we can get early feedback from the community about our changes, and then make the appropriate fixes.
Quote
And there ya have it folks. Balance tweaks. Could we be seeing the end of tome of exp, book of the dead etc? Claws nerfed to +3/4 or something like that? Mana regeneration added to undead shop? Make the game all around more boring for the sake of balance. No thanks. Hopefully they'll just focus on fixing the 1.28 map issues and maybe make the game use widescreen without mouse lag. edit. And of course ban the obvious hackers and remove bnet delay. What? You'd say tome of exp, book of dead and claws are not just blatantly incorrect at this point? Even if we set aside claws, tome of exp and book of dead are game winning. If I opt for a fiend heavy opener against Orc, and I get book of dead, I win that game. There are no 2 ways about it. The items in the game are fine. Sure, there can be some pretty heavy RNG to it, but I don't think it's as bad as the BM's critical strike. Thinking Blizzard will reduce the RNG in WC3 is setting yourself up for disappointment; whether you like it or not, it's a significant part of the game, from the position you spawn in on the map to the items you get, and much more. Personally, if I were to tweak the game, I would make exactly two changes: - Reduce armor/armor gain on Agility heroes - Reduce the damage/proc rate of Critical Strike, possibly make it so it can't proc twice in a row The rest would be addressed through new maps. Maps play a huge, huge role in the current metagame and new viable and interesting maps would shake up the game a whole lot. If they got more creative and introduced new map-related mechanics, e.g. the permanent ward on TR, it'd create entire new dynamics. I hope a brand new mappool consisting of well-made and thought out maps is part of their plan. Items are not fine. Book of Necro is an instant win for certain races on certain maps. Game's should never come down to an absolute coin flip of who gets what items. At high level Wc3 play certain items were basically auto wins. I recognize that. I recently watched a stream from a former top level French player who still plays from time to time, and is pretty good, and he had to face an Orc on Ancient Isles. The Orc got Book of the Dead, came into his base, popped it and coupled it with speed scroll and trashed his acolytes. There was little he could do. But my thinking is that the problem here isn't the item, but the fact that it's on this particular map. Book of the Dead on a bigger map, say Gnoll Wood (not a great example I know), or on 2v2 maps, would be largely fine. I certainly wasn't advocating for every item to be available on every map. I think map balance included not only the layout, but also what items can be found on what creep camps. It's a big part too. My point was more about the presence of RNG in the game, and its unlikeliness to be removed, as RNG is in nearly every aspect of it: items, map spawns, attack range, etc...
Book of the dead is one of those things that's really hard to balance though. Move it up an item tier and it becomes the drop you're always praying not to get. Keep it where it is and it auto wins the game in some situations. It's stupidly broken in some matchups on certain maps and completely trash on others. It's the definition of a problematic mechanic. Claws is similar. Tome of Exp is pretty gamebreaking because it's so far and away better than every other option. Claws and Tome can probably be balanced but Book of the dead is probably not worth keeping.
I like your idea of lowering the Armor on Agi heroes but I always thought Crit had a pseudo random element.
I've always figured one of the key features a WC4 would be a system where you could choose the drops you got from creeps. You'd need to balance the drops and the heroes around the feature ofc, but I reckon it would open up way more options if setup correctly. Probably not an option for WC3 though.
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One thing I hope we can agree on, is disallowing dropping aura items when you're playing the race with that aura.
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On May 15 2017 09:43 lestye wrote:
One thing I hope we can agree on, is disallowing dropping aura items when you're playing the race with that aura.
I mean sure, but functionally it's no worse than getting Book vs NE or Roar in Human mirror or Crystal Ball vs anyone. You just picked up some extra gold rather than a usable item. The problem is really broad.
I wonder if increasing the purchasable options from the merchant shop might be a good workaround?
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Want to nerf book of the dead? Make it an item with 2 charges summoning half of the units each time. Or maybe even 4 charges with a relatively small cooldown like 10 seconds
Crit should be turned into a flat +damage ability instead of being %-based.
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I believe its more about map design than anything else. It is imbalanced to creep a red spot creep just as your hero spawns.
For example on a map like Ancient Isles, it is possible for a lvl 1 Blademaster + grunt to creep the troll warlord guarding the red laboratory, but there still can be a counter play to it.
One solution could be to just make the neutral creeps stronger either by buffing them (more hp, more armor) or making the camp slightly stronger by adding better creeps. It is only healthy for the game, that a creep can drop a very bad item (Crystal Ball) or a very good item (Claws +12)
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EPT
