Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne - Page 11

On October 22 2013 10:19 amazingxkcd wrote:
Ill be on w3arena now, with id LoveTT. I have no idea what Im doing rofl

On October 22 2013 10:06 Capricis wrote:
So are you thinking about a w3arena guild? That doesn't need ten people to start, does it? Also can you add me to the OP? Capricis on w3arena and Psycho_Gemni on Garena. I searched everyone's names in the OP on Garena and added all I found, which was most everyone.

On October 23 2013 19:15 Tchado wrote:
I want to start a serious discussion , I think this topic will be interesting , please share your ideas because I am very interested in them , on a personal level or from a theory-craft level.

"What can Sc2 learn from Wc3 ? and what can current Wc3 players learn from Sc2 ? "

This is a very broad question , and it has tons of possible answers from many angels (strategy , balance , design , you as a player...etc ) so lets begin :D

From my point of view , ever since I started playing Sc2 I noticed how it affected my Wc3 play ; for example in sc2 I play terran and I tend to go upgrade heavy , in Sc2 the advantage of having an upgrade lead is massive (most of the time) , all of sudden when I play Wc3 I started to realize I ported this with me , in 1v1s I tend to get at least 1 attack upgrade before T2 , and I will squeeze in more upgrades as the game moves forward depending on the situation , but I still go for upgrades if I see that my units can stand their own in a fight , I noticed this affected my Human vs Orc , having +2 defense on your spell breakers can be game breaking , or having +2 attack on your rifles in Human vs Nightelf , I was even called out as a hacker a few times because of it XD....hell sometimes when I get away with a fast expansion in team games, I would throw 2 blacksmiths , pump the upgrades and stick to T1 or T2 instead of going for fast T3 with no upgrades , the advantages are just too massive to ignore.

From another point of view , I noticed how blizzard tends to balance these days around having more attack options and an action packed meta game instead of bullshit macro stalemates , now I know this will never happen , but can you imagine if the upkeep system was in sc2 ?

Many people tried to come up with a reason why Wc3 is the action packed master piece of a game it is , some say it is the focus on micro but I have to say it is because of upkeep , once you hit 50 food in Wc3 , YOU GOTTA DO SOMETHING , you need to hit a timing , harass , fight , secure an expo....do something ffs ! breaking upkeep is also a gamble that isn't taken lightly , all these factors compel players to be more aggressive....while I believe this won't work in Sc2 , but it does make you wonder (btw I am thinking of making a custom map to try this theory out).

These are some of my thoughts , I will share more as the discussion grows

On October 23 2013 20:49 fleeze wrote:


well, both your points make no sense to compare IMHO.
Upgrades in WC3 are very different from upgrades in SC2. In SC2 you get fixed values (+1, +2) whereas in WC3 you get percentage based upgrades, also armor works VERY different because of this (see Dota armor system). f.e. 1 point in armor reduces damageby 5.7%. which is useless against t1.
Therefore it's rarely worth upgrading units before going t2.

also regarding the upkeep system and the more action packed game.
you are wrong here. the upkeep was one of the most controverse things in WC3 strategy wise. many pros wanted it to disappear to encourage macro.
however that doesn' have anything to do with WC3 being more action with fights more often and longer. this is the case because 1) units have MUCH higher HP compared to their damage. 2) there are heroes which benefit from fighting (lvl) 3) there are neutral creeps to fight over to gain an advantage through denying your opponent the exp/gold or just backstab him.

On October 23 2013 22:47 Tchado wrote:
@fleeze

I do have a question for you , do you think encouraging macro in Wc3 would make it a better game ?

personally the reason that macro is even more non-existant than wc3 is why I love games like Dawn of War 2 and Company of heroes 2

On October 23 2013 22:55 DaCruise wrote:


WC3 doesnt work like that. The macro required in WC3 is limited and thats just how it is. If it was more complex and/or required more focus, the small skirmishes would be less interesting and wouldnt happen as often so no, more macro wouldnt make WC3 better but worse imo.
The strenght of WC3 comes from the heroes and their abilities so thats what should be the focus of the game.

On October 23 2013 23:22 3point14 wrote:
hope to be able to play with you Dacruise. Ill be playing at around 11pm cest (Newyork time 5pm) and im chilling in azeroth channel "teamliquid" all day as well as im online on Garena.
FFA is interesting (with 3heroes getting lvl 6) but it also has drawbacks like 2hours gamelength.
as I know from my experience wih the MAFIA game (also played here on TL) i suck at convincing people and hiding my evil plans, both of which is important in FFAs

Dacruise, whats your ID on what servers?

my view of upkeep is that the idea is good, but should be weaker, like 10/9/8 gold

btw: thanks for notifying when someone (especially exWc3progamers) streams Wc3! I usually miss it if noone tells me, but its so much fun to watch Grubby, Tod and others play Wc3!