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On June 17 2013 00:16 Trumpstyle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2013 23:18 Epishade wrote:
I'm torn between PS4 and Xbox One right now. Used games feature is big for me but I think the Xbox One will have better games and exclusives. I think I'm gonna have to hold out on buying either of these once they come out and wait for reviews. MS screwing its customers with this used game bs is, more than anything, the thing that will change my favorable opinion toward the PS4. Killing the use market is good for the overall gaming industry. It already happen in pc gaming, and we must hope it happens to Playstation 4. Otherwise they might face the wrath of third publishers. They will likely rise the price of the games to 70-80 dollars if they can't kill the use market or don't get a fee. Sony's game will ofc be 60$.
By this logic we should put DRM in DvDs and BluRay too, why not in boardgames even with DNA tests ?
Your stance is the publisher one, I respect it but I don't agree with it.
If I buy something but don't want to keep it I should be able to regain some of its value. In those 60$ I put forward it is not only for playing the game once it is for playing (being able to play) the game for life. If I decide that I don't need the "for life" part, I can get that value back.
If publisher allowed games to be resold back to them maybe there is an acceptable middleground. They allow you to resell your game to them. You discard your right to still play the game, they give you back some money based on some function of time and demand. Then if a second person wants to buy said game he pays the price at the time. It would be as if the first person rented the game for a price while the second bought the game at its price after some time.
Of course more elaborate details would be necessary but its a bit useless because it would never happen.
As for prices rising to 80$, won't happen. The same way XBox 1 games won't be at 45/50 $. Everything will be at 60$ as usual. What we may see is more DLCs or Deluxe editions.
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Probably will pick one up once at least two of KH3, FF15, Mirrors edge 2 are released. Whichever come first.
Wasn't going to get a Ps4, but E3 convinced me.
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On June 17 2013 06:23 RagequitBM wrote:
Probably will pick one up once at least two of KH3, FF15, Mirrors edge 2 are released. Whichever come first.
Wasn't going to get a Ps4, but E3 convinced me.
lol Im doing the same, specially for FF15 
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On June 17 2013 04:20 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 00:16 Trumpstyle wrote:On June 16 2013 23:18 Epishade wrote:
I'm torn between PS4 and Xbox One right now. Used games feature is big for me but I think the Xbox One will have better games and exclusives. I think I'm gonna have to hold out on buying either of these once they come out and wait for reviews. MS screwing its customers with this used game bs is, more than anything, the thing that will change my favorable opinion toward the PS4. Killing the use market is good for the overall gaming industry. It already happen in pc gaming, and we must hope it happens to Playstation 4. Otherwise they might face the wrath of third publishers. They will likely rise the price of the games to 70-80 dollars if they can't kill the use market or don't get a fee. Sony's game will ofc be 60$. By this logic we should put DRM in DvDs and BluRay too, why not in boardgames even with DNA tests ? Your stance is the publisher one, I respect it but I don't agree with it. If I buy something but don't want to keep it I should be able to regain some of its value. In those 60$ I put forward it is not only for playing the game once it is for playing (being able to play) the game for life. If I decide that I don't need the "for life" part, I can get that value back. If publisher allowed games to be resold back to them maybe there is an acceptable middleground. They allow you to resell your game to them. You discard your right to still play the game, they give you back some money based on some function of time and demand. Then if a second person wants to buy said game he pays the price at the time. It would be as if the first person rented the game for a price while the second bought the game at its price after some time. Of course more elaborate details would be necessary but its a bit useless because it would never happen. As for prices rising to 80$, won't happen. The same way XBox 1 games won't be at 45/50 $. Everything will be at 60$ as usual. What we may see is more DLCs or Deluxe editions.
If you go watch a movie in theater should you be able sell that ticket back? It's just the same as for gaming just worse. Publishers/devs make money only from game sales, not theater, dvds/blueray and tv license as movies does. That is the reason movie industry don't care about use sale on dvds.
As for increase game price is very likely, been talk about this for years as cost of development just keep increasing but we can avoid this together if xbone and ps4 kills use game sale or make publishers can get a fee from it.
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On June 17 2013 07:30 Trumpstyle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 04:20 rezoacken wrote:On June 17 2013 00:16 Trumpstyle wrote:On June 16 2013 23:18 Epishade wrote:
I'm torn between PS4 and Xbox One right now. Used games feature is big for me but I think the Xbox One will have better games and exclusives. I think I'm gonna have to hold out on buying either of these once they come out and wait for reviews. MS screwing its customers with this used game bs is, more than anything, the thing that will change my favorable opinion toward the PS4. Killing the use market is good for the overall gaming industry. It already happen in pc gaming, and we must hope it happens to Playstation 4. Otherwise they might face the wrath of third publishers. They will likely rise the price of the games to 70-80 dollars if they can't kill the use market or don't get a fee. Sony's game will ofc be 60$. By this logic we should put DRM in DvDs and BluRay too, why not in boardgames even with DNA tests ? Your stance is the publisher one, I respect it but I don't agree with it. If I buy something but don't want to keep it I should be able to regain some of its value. In those 60$ I put forward it is not only for playing the game once it is for playing (being able to play) the game for life. If I decide that I don't need the "for life" part, I can get that value back. If publisher allowed games to be resold back to them maybe there is an acceptable middleground. They allow you to resell your game to them. You discard your right to still play the game, they give you back some money based on some function of time and demand. Then if a second person wants to buy said game he pays the price at the time. It would be as if the first person rented the game for a price while the second bought the game at its price after some time. Of course more elaborate details would be necessary but its a bit useless because it would never happen. As for prices rising to 80$, won't happen. The same way XBox 1 games won't be at 45/50 $. Everything will be at 60$ as usual. What we may see is more DLCs or Deluxe editions. If you go watch a movie in theater should you be able sell that ticket back? It's just the same as for gaming just worse. Publishers/devs make money only from game sales, not theater, dvds/blueray and tv license as movies does. That is the reason movie industry don't care about use sale on dvds. As for increase game price is very likely, been talk about this for years as cost of development just keep increasing but we can avoid this together if xbone and ps4 kills use game sale or make publishers can get a fee from it.
First, I explicitly wrote DvD and BluRays. Not tickets. Also when you buy a ticket you don't buy the value linked to watch a second or more times. If you could buy a ticket allowing you to see a movie as much as you want for 60$ I would be in favor of being able to resell such ticket. The same way I'm able to resell a BluRay.
Tickets would be closer to me paying 20$ to play the game only once.
By reselling I sell my right to replay the game.
That's almost the same philosophy as renting, you pay 10 or 20$ to play the game and then you have to give it back. The war against used games is also a war against renting anyway.
Obviously, if you don't agree that this value is a part of the 60$ that can be resold, or if you feel playing a game once at 60$ is justified. Then we're bound to disagree (and let's agree to disagree).
However, I'm not against a fee. That's why I suggested the possibility of being able to resell to a publisher directly, or through them to find a buyer. They add a reasonable fee upon the transition.
Yeah if both Xbox and PS4 increase their price I'll agree it's a possibility I just think those that think Xbox will be cheaper are fools.
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what's a used game? sorry i dunno. why doesn't ms allow it?
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In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.
In the past, Xbox 360 games looked better out of the gate and over time PS3 games progressively improved to the point where games like The Last of Us and Beyond: Two Souls stand out even against some next gen titles. But if this differentiator holds true, not only will Xbox One games have DRM issues and no rental options and limited used game opportunities, the games won’t look as good as PS4 titles. That sounds like a perfect storm of negativity for the hardcore gamers.
This processing power issue also could be a potential reason behind the latest controversy that has emerged for Microsoft at E3, in which photos were taken of some Xbox One games running on Windows 7 PCs with NVIDIA graphics cards. Sony PS4 developers took to Twitter saying PS4 demos were running on PS4 dev kits. I know playing PS4 games behind closed doors that the PS4 was clearly visible as I played.
Source
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On June 17 2013 10:15 Levistus wrote:
what's a used game? sorry i dunno. why doesn't ms allow it?
Used game is a game that someone already bought, got bored of it and sell it to someone else (that person therefore buys a "used" game in contrast to a "new" game).
As for MS stance on it, I'm not sure what it is exactly. If I understand it correctly you can only give a game you own to someone that has been your friend for a month and only once obviously. If someone knows more details go ahead.
As for the why: money. Not saying this in a pejorative way. The idea is to give publishers more money out of sales because currently they get none out of used games sales (only from the initial 60$ purchase). On the other hand it removes some value from the product that the consumer bought (basically he no longer owns something of value, he only got granted an access to the game). So pick your stance.
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Out of curiosity, has there been much info about the new PS4 Eye around? It wasn't mentioned at all at E3 and I haven't really heard anything about it. I'm not a fan of kinect (especially in its required-to-function form) but a similar device for PS4 could have tangible uses if handled right. This is especially considering it doesn't seem to be expensive at all (going by Amazon pre-order price of $60.)
I personally wouldn't give a crap about kiddie/dancing games, but if it provides similar abilities to the console that Kinect does, I'm kinda surprised I'm not seeing it mentioned more if only for the whole "nah we can do that too!" factor. Maybe its because of the bad publicity surrounding the Kinect lately?
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I hope it will have more rpg game than ps3.
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On June 17 2013 15:04 erin[go]bragh wrote:
Out of curiosity, has there been much info about the new PS4 Eye around? It wasn't mentioned at all at E3 and I haven't really heard anything about it. I'm not a fan of kinect (especially in its required-to-function form) but a similar device for PS4 could have tangible uses if handled right. This is especially considering it doesn't seem to be expensive at all (going by Amazon pre-order price of $60.)
I personally wouldn't give a crap about kiddie/dancing games, but if it provides similar abilities to the console that Kinect does, I'm kinda surprised I'm not seeing it mentioned more if only for the whole "nah we can do that too!" factor. Maybe its because of the bad publicity surrounding the Kinect lately?
Well its not really the same thing. What Kinect proposes is to get rid of a remote, doing stuff by voice or flaying your arms.
The PS4 eye (since it seems close to the PS3 one) is closer to what the Wii is doing. It will do stuff according to the Game Pad movements (like shown in some tech demo you can lit the pad to make it interact with the eye) or according to some stick movement (PS move) so in the end you still need to have something in your hand. So no the PS4 probably won't have hand free navigation if that was your question.
It reads some movements though when you try to kick imaginary things but I have a feeling it just sees stuff moving in an area where something is supposed to be and launch a script in consequence.
The eye will probably be used only as a cam and as a movement reader like dance or other party games or cute stuff like eye pet (which they call enhanced reality or something).
On June 17 2013 15:21 pedduck wrote:
I hope it will have more rpg game than ps3.
Here is my take on it for RPGs for next gen.
Western mainstream RPGs will come out on both console and most likely PC (Bioware, Bethesda...).
Japan RPG will certainly be on the PS4. However no guarantee you'll see them translated.
Indie RPG will be on PC and maybe on console for some of them.
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Australia549 Posts
Doesn't look too bad, normally hate on consoles a lot but I am considering purchasing this one.
Really expensive here though -.- Will see how games are priced and what games ps4 has access to.
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On June 17 2013 04:20 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 00:16 Trumpstyle wrote:On June 16 2013 23:18 Epishade wrote:
I'm torn between PS4 and Xbox One right now. Used games feature is big for me but I think the Xbox One will have better games and exclusives. I think I'm gonna have to hold out on buying either of these once they come out and wait for reviews. MS screwing its customers with this used game bs is, more than anything, the thing that will change my favorable opinion toward the PS4. Killing the use market is good for the overall gaming industry. It already happen in pc gaming, and we must hope it happens to Playstation 4. Otherwise they might face the wrath of third publishers. They will likely rise the price of the games to 70-80 dollars if they can't kill the use market or don't get a fee. Sony's game will ofc be 60$. By this logic we should put DRM in DvDs and BluRay too, why not in boardgames even with DNA tests ? Your stance is the publisher one, I respect it but I don't agree with it. If I buy something but don't want to keep it I should be able to regain some of its value. In those 60$ I put forward it is not only for playing the game once it is for playing (being able to play) the game for life. If I decide that I don't need the "for life" part, I can get that value back. If publisher allowed games to be resold back to them maybe there is an acceptable middleground. They allow you to resell your game to them. You discard your right to still play the game, they give you back some money based on some function of time and demand. Then if a second person wants to buy said game he pays the price at the time. It would be as if the first person rented the game for a price while the second bought the game at its price after some time. Of course more elaborate details would be necessary but its a bit useless because it would never happen. As for prices rising to 80$, won't happen. The same way XBox 1 games won't be at 45/50 $. Everything will be at 60$ as usual. What we may see is more DLCs or Deluxe editions.
Xbox and ps2 games actually costed 50 dollar, 360 and ps3 costed 60, why dont u think it will be 80
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On June 17 2013 16:32 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 04:20 rezoacken wrote:On June 17 2013 00:16 Trumpstyle wrote:On June 16 2013 23:18 Epishade wrote:
I'm torn between PS4 and Xbox One right now. Used games feature is big for me but I think the Xbox One will have better games and exclusives. I think I'm gonna have to hold out on buying either of these once they come out and wait for reviews. MS screwing its customers with this used game bs is, more than anything, the thing that will change my favorable opinion toward the PS4. Killing the use market is good for the overall gaming industry. It already happen in pc gaming, and we must hope it happens to Playstation 4. Otherwise they might face the wrath of third publishers. They will likely rise the price of the games to 70-80 dollars if they can't kill the use market or don't get a fee. Sony's game will ofc be 60$. By this logic we should put DRM in DvDs and BluRay too, why not in boardgames even with DNA tests ? Your stance is the publisher one, I respect it but I don't agree with it. If I buy something but don't want to keep it I should be able to regain some of its value. In those 60$ I put forward it is not only for playing the game once it is for playing (being able to play) the game for life. If I decide that I don't need the "for life" part, I can get that value back. If publisher allowed games to be resold back to them maybe there is an acceptable middleground. They allow you to resell your game to them. You discard your right to still play the game, they give you back some money based on some function of time and demand. Then if a second person wants to buy said game he pays the price at the time. It would be as if the first person rented the game for a price while the second bought the game at its price after some time. Of course more elaborate details would be necessary but its a bit useless because it would never happen. As for prices rising to 80$, won't happen. The same way XBox 1 games won't be at 45/50 $. Everything will be at 60$ as usual. What we may see is more DLCs or Deluxe editions. Xbox and ps2 games actually costed 50 dollar, 360 and ps3 costed 60, why dont u think it will be 80
'Cos MS announced that X1 games gonna cost $60 and you can pre-order all PS4 launch games now for $60.
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On June 17 2013 16:32 Darkren wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 04:20 rezoacken wrote:On June 17 2013 00:16 Trumpstyle wrote:On June 16 2013 23:18 Epishade wrote:
I'm torn between PS4 and Xbox One right now. Used games feature is big for me but I think the Xbox One will have better games and exclusives. I think I'm gonna have to hold out on buying either of these once they come out and wait for reviews. MS screwing its customers with this used game bs is, more than anything, the thing that will change my favorable opinion toward the PS4. Killing the use market is good for the overall gaming industry. It already happen in pc gaming, and we must hope it happens to Playstation 4. Otherwise they might face the wrath of third publishers. They will likely rise the price of the games to 70-80 dollars if they can't kill the use market or don't get a fee. Sony's game will ofc be 60$. By this logic we should put DRM in DvDs and BluRay too, why not in boardgames even with DNA tests ? Your stance is the publisher one, I respect it but I don't agree with it. If I buy something but don't want to keep it I should be able to regain some of its value. In those 60$ I put forward it is not only for playing the game once it is for playing (being able to play) the game for life. If I decide that I don't need the "for life" part, I can get that value back. If publisher allowed games to be resold back to them maybe there is an acceptable middleground. They allow you to resell your game to them. You discard your right to still play the game, they give you back some money based on some function of time and demand. Then if a second person wants to buy said game he pays the price at the time. It would be as if the first person rented the game for a price while the second bought the game at its price after some time. Of course more elaborate details would be necessary but its a bit useless because it would never happen. As for prices rising to 80$, won't happen. The same way XBox 1 games won't be at 45/50 $. Everything will be at 60$ as usual. What we may see is more DLCs or Deluxe editions. Xbox and ps2 games actually costed 50 dollar, 360 and ps3 costed 60, why dont u think it will be 80
Caphe beat me to it. Oh and Amazon shows the pricing as well and Amazon and the other companies tend to work together anyway (like when PS4 was mentioned).
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 17 2013 12:19 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +In talking to a developer who wished to remain anonymous, gamers will see a difference on Day One when they compare third party PS4 games to Xbox One head-to-head. The developer told me the PS4 is 40 percent more powerful than Xbox One and games like Call of Duty Ghosts will be noticeably different out of the gate.
In the past, Xbox 360 games looked better out of the gate and over time PS3 games progressively improved to the point where games like The Last of Us and Beyond: Two Souls stand out even against some next gen titles. But if this differentiator holds true, not only will Xbox One games have DRM issues and no rental options and limited used game opportunities, the games won’t look as good as PS4 titles. That sounds like a perfect storm of negativity for the hardcore gamers.
This processing power issue also could be a potential reason behind the latest controversy that has emerged for Microsoft at E3, in which photos were taken of some Xbox One games running on Windows 7 PCs with NVIDIA graphics cards. Sony PS4 developers took to Twitter saying PS4 demos were running on PS4 dev kits. I know playing PS4 games behind closed doors that the PS4 was clearly visible as I played. Source
Have to take that with a pinch of salt, but if that is the slightest bit the truth...wow, just fkn wow Microsoft >.<
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I sooo want to play the new MGS but I don't think I can justify buying a PS4 for one game........I'll tell my brother to get one
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On June 17 2013 12:22 rezoacken wrote:Show nested quote +On June 17 2013 10:15 Levistus wrote:
what's a used game? sorry i dunno. why doesn't ms allow it? Used game is a game that someone already bought, got bored of it and sell it to someone else (that person therefore buys a "used" game in contrast to a "new" game). As for MS stance on it, I'm not sure what it is exactly. If I understand it correctly you can only give a game you own to someone that has been your friend for a month and only once obviously. If someone knows more details go ahead. As for the why: money. Not saying this in a pejorative way. The idea is to give publishers more money out of sales because currently they get none out of used games sales (only from the initial 60$ purchase). On the other hand it removes some value from the product that the consumer bought (basically he no longer owns something of value, he only got granted an access to the game). So pick your stance.
Well, that's a stupid idea. The same happens with books, movies, etc. There is a whole industry dedicated in selling used stuff, and everyone is doing fine. People make a living out of buying and selling this type of merchandise. You can't expect the companies to be the only one allowed to sell games. Neither videogames companies need to get a cut out of every transaction of a CD. Books don't do that, DvD movies don't do it either. Why videogames should?
What's next? games can only be played by the person who bought them? like some digital print recognition on the controller that will shut down the game if a friend decides to play on my console? lol please
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If you go watch a movie in theater should you be able sell that ticket back? It's just the same as for gaming just worse. Publishers/devs make money only from game sales, not theater, dvds/blueray and tv license as movies does. That is the reason movie industry don't care about use sale on dvds.
As for increase game price is very likely, been talk about this for years as cost of development just keep increasing but we can avoid this together if xbone and ps4 kills use game sale or make publishers can get a fee from it.
Books have it much worse. They don't make money out of a "theater." Just the sale of number of copies. Not only that, you can borrow them for free at the library. I mean, do you see authors making a cut for every time someone resells his or her book, or whenever someone borrows a book from the library?
Of course not. Same with videogames and movies. They already sold a copy and that's good enough. Also, some movies made more money from their copies than from the theaters.
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On June 17 2013 18:52 TychusFindlaylol wrote:Show nested quote +
If you go watch a movie in theater should you be able sell that ticket back? It's just the same as for gaming just worse. Publishers/devs make money only from game sales, not theater, dvds/blueray and tv license as movies does. That is the reason movie industry don't care about use sale on dvds.
As for increase game price is very likely, been talk about this for years as cost of development just keep increasing but we can avoid this together if xbone and ps4 kills use game sale or make publishers can get a fee from it.
Books have it much worse. They don't make money out of a "theater." Just the sale of number of copies. Not only that, you can borrow them for free at the library. I mean, do you see authors making a cut for every time someone resells his or her book, or whenever someone borrows a book from the library? Of course not. Same with videogames and movies. They already sold a copy and that's good enough. Also, some movies made more money from their copies than from the theaters.
I agree on most parts though the big problem with Video Games is the exploding production costs . Yeah some if not alot of it is probably the fault of publishers/devs themselves because they overspend and are now forced to sell insane amounts of copies to break even.
The only thing thats really bad for the gaming industry that isn't really self inflicted is what the retailers are doing is basically buying back brand new used games for a quarter of the price and selling it back at almost but not quite full . This though could also be mostly avoided by producing games people don't wanna sell them because they aren't overhyped crap or they have zero replay value after you finish them .
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EPT
