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On June 11 2013 04:59 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:02 Vault Boy wrote:
Too bad Blizzard does not like money and will never release a Vanilla/TBC Server. These Cracked Servers are just not fun because they just dont have the population needed for a good MMO and alot of things are bugged. More like they understood how terrible Vanilla is by today's standards. A lot of the posts in here begging for Vanilla just plain ignored the absolutely terrible aspects of vanilla WoW. Raiding was a fucking 2nd job, not world/server first raiding, but raiding in general. What kind of shitty game locks their player base out of arguably their best content solely based on fucking time investment? Anyone who says that raids required time and effort never made any significant progress. It was atrocious, there's a problem with design when 1 person out of 40 was allowed to have absolute shit DPS because they were raid leading. Immersion argument is contradictory as hell. WoW has never been big on its immersion unless you think reading blocks of quest text was exciting and really delivered the lore. The attunement quests might have been good if it wasn't associated with the terrible pre-raid purgatory (aka the newly minted 60s with no guild and no chance of getting into good guilds). Plus the technical problems. Vanilla WoW sucked unless you were fortunate to be in a top guild. Also, hard mode raids still are difficult, I really don't get the argument that some how vanilla WoW raid encounters were better. Edit: Forgot the terrible instance setup, OH MY GOD, 1 hour to get a group if lucky, 1 hour to get the group to the dungeon, 1 hour+ to clear the dungeon if lucky.
Holy cow. You forgot the part of the community entirely, the immersion is not only "the lore", it's how alive the game is, how healthy the server's community is, and how the world feels. Reading a brick of wall has nothing to do with it. Can you say with a straight face that after flying mounts, teleports, group finders, arenas and cross servers "It is the same or it is just nostalgic ?"
Nonetheless, good luck with your rant, hope you got it out of your chest, but most people understand they are on the minority on this, and are not hating on people who enjoy it differently, just that they fucking miss it. Different tastes, and that shit, you know.
And by the way, i haven't had a raid fight that was as exciting as c'thun, but hey, i was on a top guild so what do i know 
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I wouldn't mind walking to instances if their locations didn't all blow chunks and required all 5 individuals to travel there. That led to certain places not being touched at all simply because the time investment wasn't justified.
The locking content concept is dumb, because progression was that linear. This isn't about you and your willingness to spend that time, its about you and 39+ others willing to get together on multiple days of the week to raid and to spend that time. That's not rewarding, you can go ask your raid leaders and organizers how fucking of a headache it was to herd 39 of you into a raid. Then if ANYTHING went wrong with your raiding core, good luck doing anything.
The problem with vanilla WoW is that most of its end game concepts were built on the basis that IF everything went right, the game was legitimately enjoyable, good, w/e. The problem is that real world doesn't allow that for like 99% of the player base. What is everything? Getting gear that was required for pre-raiding, getting into a raiding guild that somehow needed your class AND spec (remember this? boomkins/ferals, shadow priests, locks, fire mage pre-AQ, etc. GOOD LUCK), farming when you're not raiding so you can raid, and oh hoping to whatever deity you believed in that your guild doesn't have some e-drama or a geared individual leaving/stop playing so you can continue raiding. There were too many barriers to keep that concept from continuing when the collapse of any one of those things can/will simply mean you aren't doing anything worthwhile in level 60.
Also, that rewarding feeling? To me, that's your brain keeping yourself from committing suicide if you ever figured out how shitty of an experience you were actually having. Working a second job that somehow costs me money, social life (how many of you thought you could go out on a raid night during progression and hoped your ass wouldn't get replaced? especially if you weren't geared AND if your class was easily replaceable), and time. Yeah, whatever I get from it better be rewarding, because it would be pretty damn depressing if it wasn't.
Edit:
@Godwrath, that's my point. If you were in a top guild, your experience differed dramatically.
Also, the community argument again is flawed because if you were on a dead server (not new), all those features you listed helped out a ton for those servers.
Anyways, I'll stop derailing the thread. I did raid up to T3, guild made the decision to not progress into Naxx since it was near the start of TBC and there was very little point to do so.
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Reading this is so bitter-sweet to me, I get a really hollow feeling in my stomach.
I think of all the amazing memories I made, people I got to know, virtual places I explored, all the gratification and anger, about all the fucking time I lost, about the relationship I destroyed, about how I had something to get out of bed for when I was really down, about the thing that actually got me down, about the money I spent and the damage I done to my health and again and again about the time I've wasted. I think of that one cave elvish cave in Felwood, whose design could be found in almost any elvish area, about my first druid to reach level 30, about hundreds of hours talking to people on TS, about my first "raid" to LBRS...
It's paradox that the thread makes me want to install the game instantly but at the same time throw my PC out of the window so I never have to waste another minute playing any computer game ever again.
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And by the way, i haven't had a raid fight that was as exciting as c'thun, but hey, i was on a top guild so what do i know Honestly, how can you even compare a fight like that with the brilliance that was Yogg'saron, the Lich King, Ragnaros and hell, even the Thunder King (although the lore in Pandaria is not that compelling since it's all completely new and no one has ever heard of Lei Shen before, can't wait to kill Garrosh though, that'll be one to remember). The raids today are just way more interesting to play because they are mechanically far more complex than in Vanilla. They are on a completely different level (gameplay wise of course, not lorewise).
You can say a lot about WoW, but raids have only become better and better.
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Thorakh, i did yogg'saron and lich king. I haven't played seriously the game since Cata. And yes, i do say it, because it is my opinion. Not to speak that you are saying "the brilliance of Yogg'saron" which was heavily influenced by the design of the C'thun fight, except you didn't have death rays of doom with 40 persons. And i am not going to argue about that, because i think TBC raids were really good, WotLK well, felt a bit bland for me in the most part, but i don't know anything about the rest.
@ Judicator
Yes, they helped people on dead servers and people too lazy to find groups/friends. Meanwhile, the community goes to waste. It's not black and white "it's better/it's worse", that entirely depends on what you enjoy on a mmorpg. And what i am saying is that has an impact on gameplay, and because you and the majority prefer it, doesn't mean it does for me.
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On June 11 2013 05:21 NeO)MasCoT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 18:15 sidesprang wrote:
If you want to play on a vanilla server. WoW-One (feenix) is by far the best in terms of scripting + playerbase. Feenix has terrible scripts. I played almost 4 years ago and they still can't script properly. It's only good because so many idiots play there. Since when does Razorgore have 3 drakes come out that you must nuke down? Since when does Prophet Skeram MC random people, not the closest person to him? Since when does Onyxia Head become lootable for an entire raid? Since when do Sunders not stack from different Tanks? Since when does Healing Waves not stack from different Shamans? Sorry, but Feenix is literally the worst server I've ever played on. Community sucked (still does); the scripting is just abysmal. The only servers that had anything good were ScriptCraft and TwinStar.czWoW raiding is definitely dead. Populations pickup early summer and die right as school starts. I've been doing it for 4 years now. It's never fun. And don't fucking pretend like you've "raided" in Vanilla. Kerafyrm <Death and Taxes>
It does not
Dunno Skeram aint out on ED
It's not lootable for everyone
It does stack
Dunno dont play horde
And you should not compare old warsong scripts to what is currently on ED (and just got ported to warsong). I never claimed stuff to be 100% blizzlike but it is more than close enough to me. And most important the ED server which im playing on have a very blzzlike community and ppl are not all whiny and want free pixels. And i definetly do not know about a server with good scripts that also have a good playerbase. Feel free to show me one.
And chill down man, no reason to get mad an act like a douchbag mr DnT raider.
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Usually the people that i've seen play personally and QQ about vanilla being a horrible grind, gearing up to start raiding was hard, it took too long to get a group/finish an instance were really bad. I mean like, i was never in a top 300 guild or w/e since my schedule blowed chunks but i never really had any issues with guilds not being able to get a raid ready and whatnot (the only thing, poor pally buffs, bless your soul if you played a paladin before buff lasted longer). Only one guild had loot drama, guild blew up, got into a top 3 guild in my server the week after.
I had a friend cry about cataclysm heroics before they got infinitely easier...like really?
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On June 11 2013 07:56 Godwrath wrote:
Yes, they helped people on dead servers and people too lazy to find groups/friends. Meanwhile, the community goes to waste. It's not black and white "it's better/it's worse", that entirely depends on what you enjoy on a mmorpg. And what i am saying is that has an impact on gameplay, and because you and the majority prefer it, doesn't mean it does for me.
Community went to waste because more people started playing the game and the people you played stopped playing. All of those features you listed never kept my from keeping up with people I played with and actually enjoyed playing with. If you built worthwhile relationships with people that you played with, then none of this should have affected you.
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anyone here play Feenix vanilla wow servers?
I logged into my long-forgotten lv. 60 mage on Warsong (12x server)
i have less than 1 gold, mostly abysmal gear (including NO shoulders) and no idea where to go or where to start. i'm obviously going to be joining DM/BRS groups, but is there anything I can do as a solo player to get quick gold/loot?
all i'm doing now is farming twilight texts because I heard those sell well on the AH
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I don't see how people can say that vanilla raiding was a major time sink. My old guild had time to raid at the top level for our faction while producing several High Warlords in a row. It really wasn't "A second job" once you had your core together.
Hell the guild I was in that became so good initially started because two guilds allied together and raided MC together before we merged into 1 guild. Just learning MC it wasn't THAT huge of a time sink. Once multiple raids came out yes the time went up but even the farming wasn't difficult at all because once you reached the point where you needed to up your farming your guild was in a good place for resources. I remember farming shit for my part but it was a minor amount of the time I played. Vanilla WoW DID have some things that looking back now were really blah but they weren't horrible. Yes doing Pug end game dungeons for your raiding set was a pain but yet again....Guild of a decent size = in house runs = easy gear up and attunement. We used to make a game of running UBRS and LBRS to see what group could clear it faster when we were attuning new recruits.
The only thing that is different today is that with all the new system you don't need a guild to experience all the content, just que and raid. Join a guild if you want to get into the "hard modes" or w/e.
I lucked out being apart of a guild that would merge with another guild to become a badass pve/pvp guild though. I do wonder if I would have kept playing if I hadn't been in a guild that was able to progress through content.
It does suck in a way that "only a few" guilds would be on that level but then again they were also made up of a majority of the "quality" players on that server.
However, all that really meant was that the content was disseminated slower, because once my guild was on BWL and not really doing MC as much, many of those lower end guilds had enough info and shit to start progressing through MC. So I do think the "vast majority didn't get to experience end game" is rather an exaggeration. As long as you could recruit enough to fill a raid you could run at least Ony and learn that with relative ease (plus so many guides came out). That plus dungeons and MC wasn't exactly rocket science later on so many people DID get to experience it, just it was more spread out with the "elites" trying and progressing there first so they were able to have a few months of "look at my shiny shit" before other guilds would be able to.
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Realistically how many people play on Feenix? I don't want to waste my time downloading a client for a dead and / or really buggy server.
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On June 11 2013 06:45 Meow-Meow wrote:
Reading this is so bitter-sweet to me, I get a really hollow feeling in my stomach.
I think of all the amazing memories I made, people I got to know, virtual places I explored, all the gratification and anger, about all the fucking time I lost, about the relationship I destroyed, about how I had something to get out of bed for when I was really down, about the thing that actually got me down, about the money I spent and the damage I done to my health and again and again about the time I've wasted. I think of that one cave elvish cave in Felwood, whose design could be found in almost any elvish area, about my first druid to reach level 30, about hundreds of hours talking to people on TS, about my first "raid" to LBRS...
It's paradox that the thread makes me want to install the game instantly but at the same time throw my PC out of the window so I never have to waste another minute playing any computer game ever again.
so true. that's how i feel too.
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On June 11 2013 06:32 Judicator wrote:
I wouldn't mind walking to instances if their locations didn't all blow chunks and required all 5 individuals to travel there. That led to certain places not being touched at all simply because the time investment wasn't justified.
The locking content concept is dumb, because progression was that linear. This isn't about you and your willingness to spend that time, its about you and 39+ others willing to get together on multiple days of the week to raid and to spend that time. That's not rewarding, you can go ask your raid leaders and organizers how fucking of a headache it was to herd 39 of you into a raid. Then if ANYTHING went wrong with your raiding core, good luck doing anything.
The problem with vanilla WoW is that most of its end game concepts were built on the basis that IF everything went right, the game was legitimately enjoyable, good, w/e. The problem is that real world doesn't allow that for like 99% of the player base. What is everything? Getting gear that was required for pre-raiding, getting into a raiding guild that somehow needed your class AND spec (remember this? boomkins/ferals, shadow priests, locks, fire mage pre-AQ, etc. GOOD LUCK), farming when you're not raiding so you can raid, and oh hoping to whatever deity you believed in that your guild doesn't have some e-drama or a geared individual leaving/stop playing so you can continue raiding. There were too many barriers to keep that concept from continuing when the collapse of any one of those things can/will simply mean you aren't doing anything worthwhile in level 60.
Also, that rewarding feeling? To me, that's your brain keeping yourself from committing suicide if you ever figured out how shitty of an experience you were actually having. Working a second job that somehow costs me money, social life (how many of you thought you could go out on a raid night during progression and hoped your ass wouldn't get replaced? especially if you weren't geared AND if your class was easily replaceable), and time. Yeah, whatever I get from it better be rewarding, because it would be pretty damn depressing if it wasn't.
Edit:
@Godwrath, that's my point. If you were in a top guild, your experience differed dramatically.
Also, the community argument again is flawed because if you were on a dead server (not new), all those features you listed helped out a ton for those servers.
Anyways, I'll stop derailing the thread. I did raid up to T3, guild made the decision to not progress into Naxx since it was near the start of TBC and there was very little point to do so.
u hate all of the reasons most Vanilla players enjoyed and miss it... the game wasnt a mindless "click Q... teleport to instance, run thru using all of your AoE"
there was stuff like having to group up and meet people from your server, having then to run to the instance. And then when inside you actually had to use your abilities correctly, instead of just smashing ur AoE ones...
And Raids actually required coordination, planning, class balance, They were giant time commitments, and you actually had to possess some sort of skill or knowledge of the game and its mechanics in order to defeat the bosses...
Literally raiding or even instance'ing now is just so sad to me that I cant enjoy it at all. When you are max level and people still dont understand what their class can do, used to need to do back in the older Versions of the game...
meh
but everyone knows Blizzard shifted focuses a LONG time ago, from catering to gamers who appreciated skill, to trying to appeal to the lowest common denominators of gamers... They wanted to bring in as many people as possible, and doing so required the content be enjoyable/doable by mentally handicapped players who would get to max level and never understand proper itemization or talent tree utilization...
meh i miss Vanilla, even TBC, back when there was some sort of community to the game, and you actually knew and recognized the players around you.
Back when epic loot meant "omg that guy actually knows how to play, and understands raiding and grouping etc" where from TBC on it just meant "Wow that guys been max level for like.. a week u can tell by his full epics" then later expansions it was "wow he must have got max level yesterday, he still has 1 blue item on..noob"
The thing i miss most about Vanilla, was its teh ONLY version of the game that was actually Horde vs Alliance. from then on we began to magically share main hubs/cities with our sworn enemies... made me miss the roots of Warcraft, and ruined all world pvp.
but i digress.
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On June 11 2013 05:23 NeO)MasCoT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 04:44 Trizz wrote:
All vanilla servers are pretty bad atm, corecraft will be the best scripted private server in a long time but is TBC.
Coming in a month or two. I apologize. CoreCraft was also one of THE best servers I've ever played on, and that was my first and only TBC experience. If you were interested in Vanilla WoW, ScriptCraft was all there was and TwinStar.cz is dead due to a very toxic Czech community.
Twinstar alliance still is raiding I think btw
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And Raids actually required coordination, planning, class balance, They were giant time commitments, and you actually had to possess some sort of skill or knowledge of the game and its mechanics in order to defeat the bosses...
Literally raiding or even instance'ing now is just so sad to me that I cant enjoy it at all. When you are max level and people still dont understand what their class can do, used to need to do back in the older Versions of the game... Ugh, don't confuse LFR with real raiding please. Raiding in vanilla was a joke compared to raiding now.
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On June 11 2013 08:51 xMiragex wrote:
Usually the people that i've seen play personally and QQ about vanilla being a horrible grind, gearing up to start raiding was hard, it took too long to get a group/finish an instance were really bad. I mean like, i was never in a top 300 guild or w/e since my schedule blowed chunks but i never really had any issues with guilds not being able to get a raid ready and whatnot (the only thing, poor pally buffs, bless your soul if you played a paladin before buff lasted longer). Only one guild had loot drama, guild blew up, got into a top 3 guild in my server the week after.
I had a friend cry about cataclysm heroics before they got infinitely easier...like really?
Cataclysm heroics pre-nerf was the best time I had in WoW. Perfectly doable without sinking your whole life into a damn game, still required you to know how to play your class and play properly together as a group. It was so fun to read on various forums how everyone whined how the heroics were impossible to heal while I was doing perfectly fine in my holy priest spec.
Got the archivement mount before the heroics were nerfed, went on to raids but trying to found a guild when you have a fulltime job etc... not very likely. I really wish there were more MMOs which focused on 5man content and made it challenging and fun.
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OH HEY, remember in Vanilla how there are certain levels where there are NO QUESTS that aren't red for you and you have to either find a group willing to run you through said quests or grind fucking boars for ages to level?
Yeah, I do now.
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On June 11 2013 06:45 Meow-Meow wrote:
Reading this is so bitter-sweet to me, I get a really hollow feeling in my stomach.
I think of all the amazing memories I made, people I got to know, virtual places I explored, all the gratification and anger, about all the fucking time I lost, about the relationship I destroyed, about how I had something to get out of bed for when I was really down, about the thing that actually got me down, about the money I spent and the damage I done to my health and again and again about the time I've wasted. I think of that one cave elvish cave in Felwood, whose design could be found in almost any elvish area, about my first druid to reach level 30, about hundreds of hours talking to people on TS, about my first "raid" to LBRS...
It's paradox that the thread makes me want to install the game instantly but at the same time throw my PC out of the window so I never have to waste another minute playing any computer game ever again.
Holy shit you just summed my thoughts and memories about WoW perfectly. I've tried a lot of MMO's after WoW but i quit all of them in like 2 weeks or so. I don't think i'll ever experience something like vanilla WoW again.
meh i miss Vanilla, even TBC, back when there was some sort of community to the game, and you actually knew and recognized the players around you.
This was the best part about WoW back in the day. IRC channels where we flamed the silly alliance and challenged their best BG groups etc and even the forums were really active.
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On June 11 2013 09:22 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 07:56 Godwrath wrote:
Yes, they helped people on dead servers and people too lazy to find groups/friends. Meanwhile, the community goes to waste. It's not black and white "it's better/it's worse", that entirely depends on what you enjoy on a mmorpg. And what i am saying is that has an impact on gameplay, and because you and the majority prefer it, doesn't mean it does for me.
Community went to waste because more people started playing the game and the people you played stopped playing. All of those features you listed never kept my from keeping up with people I played with and actually enjoyed playing with. If you built worthwhile relationships with people that you played with, then none of this should have affected you.
No, that's not how it works. More people = More servers, it has nothing to do with your own servers which were always around the same pop (i don't know about yours, but mine was most of the time pop capped). And i am not talking about my guild, or people i used to group/chat, mostly because i still do, but you just don't get it. It's about recognizing players because you interacted only with your own server, that creates stronger ties/antagonisms.
Server communities goes to waste because they stop interacting with each other, due to cross server features, and a dead contested world because of the new travel mechanichs. And i will repeat this, but i don't mind you liking WoW nowadays better, but that the majority prefers the convenience won't make me like it.
On June 11 2013 16:04 deth2munkies wrote:
OH HEY, remember in Vanilla how there are certain levels where there are NO QUESTS that aren't red for you and you have to either find a group willing to run you through said quests or grind fucking boars for ages to level?
Yeah, I do now.
Alliance quests are the worst, i can tell you that. But boars are evil, and must die.
On June 11 2013 16:50 Daray wrote:Show nested quote +meh i miss Vanilla, even TBC, back when there was some sort of community to the game, and you actually knew and recognized the players around you. This was the best part about WoW back in the day. IRC channels where we flamed the silly alliance and challenged their best BG groups etc and even the forums were really active.
Exactly. Also server forums flamewars were awesome.
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On June 11 2013 11:53 TheZanthex wrote:
Realistically how many people play on Feenix? I don't want to waste my time downloading a client for a dead and / or really buggy server.
Either good scripts or many people, can't get both right now sadly
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EPT
