EPTAndroid: Netrunner - Page 9
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A crib sheet, for those attempting to learn NetRunner over OCTGN. | ||
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Serek
United Kingdom459 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
However, if you want to be part of a scene (go into your game store and so on), you're going to get stomped consistently if you don't have access to a reasonably full card set. You don't need everything, but you can't get away with just core+WLA any more. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not? | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
On August 26 2013 08:50 Kronen wrote: I've played a couple of games with the base set with several friends I'm trying to get interested. Per the game's suggestion we've been playing Shaper (Kate MacSomething) vs. Jinteki. Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not? I'm not entirely sure what your asking, hardware points? Hardware starved? You can make runs without laying an icebreaker, and it's usually ok to do so at the start of the game. Once you layout an icebreaker, your actually much more vulnerable when running cause your at risk of losing your big programs now. | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
Is it just me or is the base runner deck incredibly hardware starved? Like the base shaper deck has 4 total hardware points available in three cards... Some of the others are even more bottlenecked. Am I missing something or do people usually make runs without icebreakers or what not? This is a common issue and a bad bit of design by FFG. The hardware points you're talking about are actually called MU or Memory Units, and represented by the little chip symbol. By default every runner has 4 MU . It's in the rules but not printed anywhere on the cards. The cards that give you MU give you additional MU. | ||
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hasuprotoss
United States4612 Posts
On August 26 2013 09:54 Thereisnosaurus wrote: This is a common issue and a bad bit of design by FFG. The hardware points you're talking about are actually called MU or Memory Units, and represented by the little chip symbol. By default every runner has 4 MU . It's in the rules but not printed anywhere on the cards. The cards that give you MU give you additional MU. And the only spot to find this ruling is in the index I think lol. That being said, running icebreaker-less until you have to is generally the way to go. The only thing that I'd fear is a Neural Katana (which of course Jinteki has...) | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
On August 26 2013 09:54 Thereisnosaurus wrote: This is a common issue and a bad bit of design by FFG. The hardware points you're talking about are actually called MU or Memory Units, and represented by the little chip symbol. By default every runner has 4 MU . It's in the rules but not printed anywhere on the cards. The cards that give you MU give you additional MU. Ahhhhh.... that makes much much more sense... Thank you very much. It doesn't say that... Cool, that makes life a lot easier. | ||
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Durak
Canada3684 Posts
What cycles or expansion improves the game the most? More ICE and ICE breakers would be swell. Edit: I was apparently just using Starter Decks and didn't know what influence was. >_< Edit2: Deck building would certainly make the game a lot better. Thanks for your post, Bluebird! | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
If your playing the core set decks without splashing anything using influence, the decks will be extremely simple and predictable. With deck building, you never know what to expect(unless you play the same person quite a bit), since you can play any card in the game in your deck. | ||
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Kronen
United States732 Posts
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FryBender
United States290 Posts
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
Now all we need is some stronger NBN help (besides Jackson Howard which should have just been a neutral card anyways). I'm pretty convinced NBN is now actually the strongest corp. with the good cards they got in WLA, the splashes from CAC and the three new bombs they get in OM. I play against a friend whose NBN deck is disgustingly hard to survive against, let alone beat- it's running 2 scorched, 2 cerebral overwriters and 3 hostile negotiations I believe. Around that you have a shell of pad/marked accounts, midseason, beale, PSF, breaking news and assorted other nastiness. And this is BEFORE jackson howard and invasion of privacy turn up. He can play to win by remote-scoring, by psycho fast advance and by flatlining. I play pretty nasty decks and he just shits all over them constantly by reliably putting you in lose-lose situations that you have very little way around. | ||
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FryBender
United States290 Posts
On September 03 2013 10:39 Thereisnosaurus wrote: I'm pretty convinced NBN is now actually the strongest corp. with the good cards they got in WLA, the splashes from CAC and the three new bombs they get in OM. I play against a friend whose NBN deck is disgustingly hard to survive against, let alone beat- it's running 2 scorched, 2 cerebral overwriters and 3 hostile negotiations I believe. Around that you have a shell of pad/marked accounts, midseason, beale, PSF, breaking news and assorted other nastiness. And this is BEFORE jackson howard and invasion of privacy turn up. He can play to win by remote-scoring, by psycho fast advance and by flatlining. I play pretty nasty decks and he just shits all over them constantly by reliably putting you in lose-lose situations that you have very little way around. I hope you mean aggressive negotiation and not hostile takeover because if he plays 3 hostile takeovers in an NBN deck then I can tell you exactly why you lose against that deck. There is no doubt that NBN has amazing agendas but I think everything your friend splashes besides scorching earth works better in a Jinteki deck. Jinteki ice is better then NBN ice (you really do not want to be face-checking Jinteki ice whereas NBN isn't as bad), the ambushes are better (I also think your friend should be splashing junebugs instead of cerebral overwriter but that's open for debate, and of course when you play either you want trick of light) and no matter how good NBN agendas are, if you're just looking to flat line a runner Fetal AI is just freaking awesome. I agree that NBN is getting some pretty powerful cards so hopefully we'll see some more of it in tournaments but right now I just don't see it being better then Jinteki in being a hybrid strategy. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
1st semifinal (Andromeda/Weyland vs Kate/Jinteki PE): http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Eiu3Votyp_0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=p3LSDagRuxw 2nd semifinal (Gabriel/HB EtF vs Noise/HB EtF)l: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ll-c6VJMX1I http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1Q5ThKuUH3I Final (Kate/Jinteki vs Noise/HB EtF) | ||
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Thereisnosaurus
Australia1822 Posts
I hope you mean aggressive negotiation and not hostile takeover because if he plays 3 hostile takeovers in an NBN deck then I can tell you exactly why you lose against that deck. I'M SO GOOD AT THIS GAME XD. Yeah you're right. There is no doubt that NBN has amazing agendas but I think everything your friend splashes besides scorching earth works better in a Jinteki deck. See, that's what I thought until I played it. Fact is though, someone puts down something and advances it twice in the open as jinteki, I'm quite happy to draw up and run it. Not so here. If I get an agenda against jinteki, I take my 1 net damage and grin. Here, I will literally not run a completely open RnD because if I score an agenda I lose. Period. I mean, if you get lucky and hit another three agendas in the next two-three turns things work out, but that's somewhat unlikely. Midseason in a deck built carefully to make it work is right now the most powerful card in the game. you can avoid a single scorched, but if someone midseasons you properly they can literally win that turn if they have enough cash- mideason, beale, psycho you lose. This deck does that consistently. And if it doesn't, it scorches you. And if it doesn't, it PSF locks you. And if it doesn't it just chains astroscripts. The *only* answer is to have significantly more credits than the corp available, and his deck is specifically built around making this difficult for you to carry off, the only time I managed was when I repeat syphoned him while having both katie and professional contacts running. as to the cerebrals over junebugs, he has the money to make them work and two brain damage synergises far better with scorched and PSF than four net damage. | ||
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FryBender
United States290 Posts
On September 04 2013 08:21 Thereisnosaurus wrote: I'M SO GOOD AT THIS GAME XD. Yeah you're right. See, that's what I thought until I played it. Fact is though, someone puts down something and advances it twice in the open as jinteki, I'm quite happy to draw up and run it. Not so here. If I get an agenda against jinteki, I take my 1 net damage and grin. Here, I will literally not run a completely open RnD because if I score an agenda I lose. Period. I mean, if you get lucky and hit another three agendas in the next two-three turns things work out, but that's somewhat unlikely. Midseason in a deck built carefully to make it work is right now the most powerful card in the game. you can avoid a single scorched, but if someone midseasons you properly they can literally win that turn if they have enough cash- mideason, beale, psycho you lose. This deck does that consistently. And if it doesn't, it scorches you. And if it doesn't, it PSF locks you. And if it doesn't it just chains astroscripts. The *only* answer is to have significantly more credits than the corp available, and his deck is specifically built around making this difficult for you to carry off, the only time I managed was when I repeat syphoned him while having both katie and professional contacts running. I'll take your word for it that midseason is scary but I usually play a type of a tag-me andromeda deck anyways so I don't see it as that big a deal. Of course project beale and pshychographics suck if I can't siphon the corp fast or well enough and if your friend found a way to reliably protect himself then sure NBN can be powerful but from my experience that's the problem with NBN, it's weak in straight up stopping the runner but the alternatives aren't as good as Jinteki. Also because of the type of deck I run I have to have three plascretes so scorched earth (or PSF for that matter) isn't that scary either. as to the cerebrals over junebugs, he has the money to make them work and two brain damage synergises far better with scorched and PSF than four net damage. Cerebrals are good early game, Junebugs are good late game. I run them both in my Jinteki deck but if I had to choose splashing one or the other I'd always go with the Junebug. Lower influence, cheaper, and a quicker payoff. But yeah hitting a cerebral with 2 counters on it on turn 3 sucks hitting a Junebug with 2 counters on turn 2 (assuming you have 4 cards) is survivable. | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On September 05 2013 00:18 FryBender wrote: I'll take your word for it that midseason is scary but I usually play a type of a tag-me andromeda deck anyways so I don't see it as that big a deal. Of course project beale and pshychographics suck if I can't siphon the corp fast or well enough and if your friend found a way to reliably protect himself then sure NBN can be powerful but from my experience that's the problem with NBN, it's weak in straight up stopping the runner but the alternatives aren't as good as Jinteki. Also because of the type of deck I run I have to have three plascretes so scorched earth (or PSF for that matter) isn't that scary either. Cerebrals are good early game, Junebugs are good late game. I run them both in my Jinteki deck but if I had to choose splashing one or the other I'd always go with the Junebug. Lower influence, cheaper, and a quicker payoff. But yeah hitting a cerebral with 2 counters on it on turn 3 sucks hitting a Junebug with 2 counters on turn 2 (assuming you have 4 cards) is survivable. Contrary to popular belief I really believe the true "cerebral" faction in netrunner is NBN and not Jinteki. That's if you build your deck around that kind of play, because NBN fast advance is about as dumb as it gets. Jinteki is a counter-pressure deck, its not great for flatlining against experienced Runners and you're really playing a numbers game if you design your deck that way. Its simply too unreliable to be running remotes as runner against Jinteki, the worst thing you can do is to try and beat Jinteki at its own game. In which case there is actually no point running traps in a Jinteki deck, instead you are better off having cards that allow you to reliably score agendas, and keep the runner at bay with fear factor alone. The only Jinteki deck that I've seen that has won a Regionals is SlySquid's, and he was running Replicating Perfection. By the same token, the previous winner of that regionals ran a medium digging whizzard deck and never ran remotes. Basically if you want Runners to hit big traps, don't run Jinteki. Pretty sure thereisnosaurus is talking about my NBN deck, however I don't think NBN/Midseason is the strongest, I mean I've lost 2 in 20 games against several different people with my current deck but I don't think anyone else could achieve the same results. I just approach the game in a completely different manner to normal players, and my deck reflects my playstyle. Most decks are oriented around a single playing style, allowing you to have a statistical advantage over a larger number of games. I've designed the deck to be able to win in many different ways, its a double edged sword. By not orienting the deck around a single playing style I cannot do anything as well as a normal deck, its a jack of all trades, master of none. The problem with normal decks is that if you are prevented from doing what your deck wants to do (e.g runner gets plascretes against your scorched deck) you will have a very hard time. So its all about looking at the current meta and doing something that will win you the largest number of games and the rest is left up to variance. My deck is more or less, meta agnostic, it also rides out variance really well because it is capable of winning in a large number of situations. That said, because of low influence from variance, the same thing applies where I will be less likely to have that magic draw where I can't be beaten. Instead I have a very loose-aggressive playing style which is very reliant on getting a read on the Runners table image very early, and then I exploit it extremely heavily. I then use breaking-news/aggressive negotiation to get the cards I need to beat the runner. If he doesn't run plascrete the obvious choice here is Scorched Earth, however there are times when I will be tutoring a beale, PSF, cerebral, melange or even a datapool. Against big rig decks or scared runners I will score datapools in the open. Often Runner's will adjust to my table image, which means I have to do the same. However the fact that they are putting themselves in an uncomfortable situation only allows me to exploit them much more heavily. This only leads to hilarious situations where they run an open cerebral with 8 counters on it thinking its a beale, suicide run and burn all their money followed by a midseason/psycho-PSF lock into meat-meat-scorched or psychobeale, or they are so scared to run anything but RnD so I just straight up advance a beal in the open to 13 counters and win the game. I really think though that this kind of play requires high level thinking, unlike most corp players I do have 2 years of poker behind me which makes it much much easier to play like this. I'll take your word for it that midseason is scary but I usually play a type of a tag-me andromeda deck anyways so I don't see it as that big a deal. Most crims just keep their tags, which is the reason I run PSF. It doesn't cost me any money to use it, if they get enough tags I psycho-PSF and then they are in a situation where they have to draw 3 cards a turn to absorb the meat damage, but if they don't draw 3 cards to pay off the tags they die. If you run a plascrete, you have one full turn to win the game before you lose. You are in permanent lockdown, while eventually I'm going to draw a scorched or psychographics to win. No midseason required. | ||
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BlueBird.
United States3889 Posts
NBN is the strongest corp with opening moves according to octgn data, interesting you went with agressive negotiations and a toolbox strategy, have never played against someone using that before. | ||
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Usagi
Spain1647 Posts
![[image loading]](https://sphotos-b-mad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/1176327_10151837893199640_1126500427_n.jpg) P.S: I had stimhack still working xP | ||
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