EPTNBA Playoffs 2013 - Page 156
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ssi.bal-listic
United States568 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On May 19 2013 12:30 Itsmedudeman wrote: I thought the TL NBA thread was over the whole "clutch" stupidity. Guess I was wrong. I was waiting to give this guy more of a chance but it's been weeks now and I've found that I've literally disagreed with everything this guy has written in this thread. GG Pacers, at least they'll give the Heat more of a challenge than the Knicks. Although I hope for a Grizzlies/Pacers finals because the lack of TV ratings will be hilarious. Someone pointed out on twitter that all the teams left are actually small market teams, although I do think that Miami doesn't count as much because of the star power. Still, interesting that it's basically only small cities left. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On May 19 2013 12:30 Itsmedudeman wrote: I thought the TL NBA thread was over the whole "clutch" stupidity. Guess I was wrong. Clutch is merely a word used to mean "hitting shots in the 4th quarter." If there is a difference in definition then that's a problem right there. The NBA, more than any other sport on the planet likely, is a game of runs. Nowhere else can you see such massive runs and nowhere are they more important than the 4th quarter. Your ability to handle the 4th quarter is the most important thing you can do, assuming you can get to it in good shape. However to say it means nothing is just absurd. Nobody is saying that being good in the first 3 quarters isn't important. However if you were to single out any single quarter as most important it's pretty obvious which is most important. I don't think anybody is actually disagreeing here. Everybody agrees that Melo did well in the first 3 and fell apart in the 4th. Everyone agrees he is a great scorer and nothing else. Everybody agrees that any team with him as the star will not win a championship... On May 19 2013 13:37 DystopiaX wrote: I was waiting to give this guy more of a chance but it's been weeks now and I've found that I've literally disagreed with everything this guy has written in this thread. Time to grow up. Chances aren't yours to be given. If you have a problem with something give a reason and move on. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13484 Posts
It's a completely different dynamic as opposed to taking a shot in the three previous quarters. It's overrated as hell by sports writers because of the emotion associated with it but it's definitely an intangible ability a good player needs to have. I'd correlate it to something like being able to serve out a match in a high pressure tennis game. You see players constantly tighten up in similar spots because they know everything is on the line in that one game. Some guys tighten up in those high pressure spots and do dumb shit whereas some can shrug it off like they're still in the first minute of the game. Maybe it's not so much the term "clutch" but how well a guy can handle high pressure spots when a game is on the line. Because no matter how good a player/team is they're always going to be in a spot where they will have to sink or swim under that pressure. In saying that, it's stupid to look at someone like Durant in the Grizz series and say he isn't clutch. Those who watched the games saw the constant double and even triple teams he faced in the fourth quarters. The Grizz clearly were working towards making life as difficult as possible for Durant and it worked. They wanted any player but Durant to beat them and the other guys couldn't/weren't good enough to step up. The "clutch" does exist but the way On_slaught is attributing it to Durant is a asinine IMO. Durant wasn't choking because of the pressure in the fourth, the Grizz's defence was suffocating and he wasn't good enough to beat it--sometimes good defence beats good offence. The loss was not on Durant as much as it was WB's injury and a lack of depth on the Thunder outside of Durant and WB. If you want to point a finger about someone not being "clutch" in that series then you need to point your target at Kevin Martin. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On May 19 2013 14:12 RowdierBob wrote: I'd actually agree that being able to perform in the clutch is a necessary attribute for a basketballer. It's a completely different dynamic as opposed to taking a shot in the three previous quarters. It's overrated as hell by sports writers because of the emotion associated with it but it's definitely an intangible ability a good player needs to have. I'd correlate it to something like being able to serve out a match in a high pressure tennis game. You see players constantly tighten up in similar spots because they know everything is on the line in that one game. Some guys tighten up in those high pressure spots and do dumb shit whereas some can shrug it off like they're still in the first minute of the game. Maybe it's not so much the term "clutch" but how well a guy can handle high pressure spots when a game is on the line. Because no matter how good a player/team is they're always going to be in a spot where they will have to sink or swim under that pressure. In saying that, it's stupid to look at someone like Durant in the Grizz series and say he isn't clutch. Those who watched the games saw the constant double and even triple teams he faced in the fourth quarters. The Grizz clearly were working towards making life as difficult as possible for Durant and it worked. They wanted any player but Durant to beat them and the other guys couldn't/weren't good enough to step up. The "clutch" does exist but the way On_slaught is attributing it to Durant is a asinine IMO. Durant wasn't choking because of the pressure in the fourth, the Grizz's defence was suffocating and he wasn't good enough to beat it. The loss was not on Durant as much as it was WB's injury and a lack of depth on the Thunder outside of Durant and WB. If you want to point a finger about someone not being "clutch" in that series then you need to point your target at Kevin Martin. So being able to handle pressure is important but we won't hold it against you if you're being defended well? Durant missed a wide open shot to send the last game into OT. Does missing that shot mean he isn't "able to handle the pressure" in general? No. But it means he failed hardcore in that situation and many similiar ones in the series. It seems the problem people in this thread are having is one of categorization. I'll agree, obviously, that you can't say somebody in general isn't good at something because they failed at it a few times. And if any of my posts came across like that then I was wrong. However there is nothing wrong with pointing out that somebody failed. These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. Durant and Melo are "superstars yo!" They should be able to make shots, especially open ones, or be able to make their own shots and be used to being double teamed since it happens literally all year in every game to them. Plus, Melo wasn't even doubled every time. Basically what I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with saying something as you see it. Prescreptions aside. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13484 Posts
But there's little doubting some guys do struggle when the pressure is on. Heck, you hear about it in Starcraft about guys who are world beaters in practice but put them in a live tournament and they go to water. Being clutch isn't about hitting or missing shots in the fourth. It's about being able to respond to high pressure situations and play to the best of your ability and smarts no matter what stage of the game it is. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
On May 19 2013 14:26 DannyJ wrote: Stern is going to off himself if it's a Pacers vs Grizzlies final. Anyone who still says that the league rigs it for big-city teams is going to look real stupid though. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On May 19 2013 14:26 Ace wrote: See that is where we disagree - Melo is not a superstar We actually don't disagree on this. I said "supposedly" because that is the image you get from every analyst and commentator and even from his team. It is obvious people like Woodsen and the teammates think this. The problem is that because that image exists now no team will ever be able to relegate him to a less important role without causing a stir. Unless OFC they won with that formula. | ||
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Kuja900
United States3564 Posts
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On May 19 2013 14:23 On_Slaught wrote: So being able to handle pressure is important but we won't hold it against you if you're being defended well? Durant missed a wide open shot to send the last game into OT. Does missing that shot mean he isn't "able to handle the pressure" in general? No. But it means he failed hardcore in that situation and many similiar ones in the series. It seems the problem people in this thread are having is one of categorization. I'll agree, obviously, that you can't say somebody in general isn't good at something because they failed at it a few times. And if any of my posts came across like that then I was wrong. However there is nothing wrong with pointing out that somebody failed. These guys are supposed to be the best in the world. Durant and Melo are "superstars yo!" They should be able to make shots, especially open ones, or be able to make their own shots and be used to being double teamed since it happens literally all year in every game to them. Plus, Melo wasn't even doubled every time. Basically what I'm saying is there's nothing wrong with saying something as you see it. Prescreptions aside. But the problem is the wording. Failure is part of the game - players fail to make shots all the time, even the best players will miss a third of their shots. But you assign the word "clutch" to an arbitrary time - "winning time," I guess. But "clutch" is such a word couched in mythology and mysticism that it means nothing. It's like "athleticism" or "drive." Would you say Carmelo is in in unathletic because he got packed? Did he lack drive because his team lost the series? I dunno. The words are hazy and purposefully so. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On May 19 2013 14:27 DystopiaX wrote: Anyone who still says that the league rigs it for big-city teams is going to look real stupid though. That's why there's no way the Pacers are coming out of the East. Besides the league can't do much about all the injuries this season, no amount of bought ref's would've got the Lakers to the finals. | ||
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