EPTNBA Playoffs 2013 - Page 121
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12802 Posts
* Following the success of the 2010 "Fear the Dear" season, GM Hammond re-signs Salmons to a 5/40 mill deal. He also brings in Drew Gooden at 5/$32 mill and trades for Maggette (2/21 still owed). Fuck. * Trades down in 2011 draft; brings in S Jax for Magette; drafts raw SF Tobias Harris. * Sells low on team's biggest asset, Andrew Bogut, and brings in Monta Ellis in pointless pursuit of 8th seed in East. Trade fails, Bucks finish 9th. BUT here's the big kicker--Steph Curry was offered by the Dubs first but the Bucks insisted on Ellis as Curry was injured and they wanted to 'win now'. * Bucks trade Tobias Harris at this year's deadline for JJ Redick (to once again, 'win now' in securing 8th in the East). Harris breaks out (which was obviosuly going to happen for anyone who had seen him play with the Bucks--the kid has massive upside). Redick, astonishingly, is no needle mover and does nothing to help the Bucks. So for the coming off season the Bucks have their three very overrated guards--Jennings, Ellis and Reddick--all possibly as FAs. The Reddick one is particularly frustrating--either overpay to keep a non-impact 6th man at best, or concede you fucked up hugely by trading a second year rookie with big upside for a half season rental of JJ Reddick. Yikes. And then there is Jennings and Ellis. Both are terrible overrated, but with strong public profiles, and Bucks have to decide to let them walk (logic would agree with this path) or re-sign them. Good luck if you're a Bucks fan. This is only the last three or so years. Since Herb Kohl took over the team, they have made it to the second round once in something like 25 years. | ||
XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On May 10 2013 10:45 Ace wrote: yea. His defense would get exploited badly vs SA. Which also speaks to what Bogut being healthy does for them. Seeing a Lee/Bogut front court healthy will say a lot about what GS will be next year. At this time though San Antonio is having a hell of a time doing anything with Bogut on the court. Dude is a fucking beast. I'm quite interested to see if how effective the Lee/Bogut frontcourt will be with both fully healthy. It is notable that Bogut didn't really shine until Lee went out, but they deserve a chance to see if they can make it work. Theoretically, Bogut should be able to help ameliorate Lee's defensive problems, while Lee's ability play outside of the low post should allow them to coexist on offense. If it worked out well, they'd have great pairings in both the front and backcourt. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Fair point. From the comments, I'm not sure how true this is so maybe a Chicago fan can elaborate. pudgalvin - May 9, 2013 at 6:33 PM Way to read the part about the magic doctors clearing him to play after he had signed his new deal. Or any of the parts about being medically cleared. In 2009, the very same team doctor for the bulls that has cleared rose cleared luol deng to play, and the bulls even issued a public challenge to get him to play. Turns out he had a fractured ankle and needed 4 months off. In 2011, Omar Asik was cleared by the very same doctor to play in game 5 against the heat. Turns out he had broken his leg in game 4. Oops. BUT HE’S MEDICALLY CLEARED!!!!!!!!! And I swear to god people are idiots. Just last year, rose played through five different injuries (toe, ankle, groin, back, hamstring) and every time, doctors cleared him and when he came back he wasn’t right and hurt himself again. I remember a road game in New Orleans last year at the tail end of a back to back in mid February that rose played 40 minutes in despite the fact that he couldn’t stand up straight because his back hurt so bad. MEDICALLY CLEARED!!!!!!!! Stop being such meatheads and let the guy comeback when he’s ready so he can be a super star for this team for the next ten years. Is that stuff true? How the fuck are they still employed? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On May 10 2013 12:00 Jibba wrote: http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/09/grant-hill-would-like-to-remind-you-doctors-cleared-him-to-play-so-he-came-back-early/ Fair point. From the comments, I'm not sure how true this is so maybe a Chicago fan can elaborate. Is that stuff true? How the fuck are they still employed? There's no sourcing - the commenter just says it. I don't think it's entirely accurate. The doctor maybe bad but I didn't see anything in a cursory Google search. Wouldn't this have been...I dunno, reported? EDIT: Ziller. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12802 Posts
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Whatson
United States5356 Posts
He should just come back whenever he's 100% physically and mentally, but keep quiet until then. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On May 10 2013 12:19 RowdierBob wrote: I can't imagine that would be true. No doctor employed by an organisation as big as the Bulls could have a doctor that inept. You don't accidentally miss a fractured ankle or broken leg. And if he did clear them to play knowing of those injuries he'd be struck off from his profession by the relevant regulatory body. Don't be stupid, they are not inept, they have an agenda. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia12802 Posts
On May 10 2013 12:53 cLutZ wrote: Don't be stupid, they are not inept, they have an agenda. Seriously? Do you know what the reprecussions for a doctor that did that would be? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On May 10 2013 13:17 RowdierBob wrote: Seriously? Do you know what the reprecussions for a doctor that did that would be? Consistent employment? Listen to any NFL athlete give an interview post-career and you will hear about how they never trusted the team doctors. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
On May 10 2013 13:29 cLutZ wrote: Consistent employment? Listen to any NFL athlete give an interview post-career and you will hear about how they never trusted the team doctors. I'm not really following the logic here. So making "mistakes" of that magnitude guarantees them consistent employment? Am I missing something here? | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On May 10 2013 13:58 BlueRoyaL wrote: I'm not really following the logic here. So making "mistakes" of that magnitude guarantees them consistent employment? Am I missing something here? Some of those mistakes, yes, like the broken leg. Soft tissue injuries, and the old one used to be concussions, team doctors for certain organizations have consistently under diagnosed the severity of injuries. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12802 Posts
But to say they tried to get Deng and Asik to play with broken limbs is absurd. Any doctor that did this would be run out of town within days. edit: I'm not sure what the process is like in the States but generally in a profession like medicine you have to be registered with a regulatory body (similar to lawyers with a bar association). If it got out that you deliberately misdiagnosed a patient to suit the whims of your employers then there's a good chance you'd never be allowed to practise medicine again (depending on the level of negligence involved. I.e deliberately misdiagnosing a BROKEN LEG). | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
Chicago Bulls center Omer Asik is done for the rest of the season because of a fractured left fibula that he suffered in Game 3 of the Eastern Conference finals. Eastern Conference Finals Heat Bulls The Bulls and Heat face off with the Eastern Conference title on the line. Follow the matchup from Day 1 on ESPN.com's series page. • Bulls blog | ESPNChicago.com • Heat Index | TrueHoop • NBA playoffs | Schedule An MRI and CT scan before Game 4 on Tuesday confirmed the diagnosis, but Asik still played two minutes in the Miami Heat's 101-93 victory. The Heat will try to eliminate the Bulls in Game 5 on Thursday. "You'd have to ask [athletic trainer] Fred [Tedeschi why the Bulls played Asik after the diagnosis]," Bulls coach Tom Thibodeau said. "It was something that they thought that he could play with. He tried to go, he couldn't, and that's the way it is." Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nba/news/story?id=6587324 I think that states pretty clearly that Asik was allowed to play despite an MRI and CT scan having already confirmed he had a fractured fibula. So either someone forgot to pass along the results of the tests to whoever allowed Asik to play, or they let him play even while knowing he had a fractured fibula. As far as I know, the trainer, Fred Tedeschi, is still employed in the same position, so that suggests that such mistakes would not result in being run out of town. He's not a doctor, but it's something to think about when considering the risk/reward for people hired by sports teams to tell their players whether or not to play. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On May 10 2013 15:22 RowdierBob wrote: I'd agree that doctors, with a little push from an FO, would sometimes push the boundaries on relatively minor injuries or pushing atheletes back into action after long layoffs from injuries (I can certainly see this being the case with Rose). But to say they tried to get Deng and Asik to play with broken limbs is absurd. Any doctor that did this would be run out of town within days. edit: I'm not sure what the process is like in the States but generally in a profession like medicine you have to be registered with a regulatory body (similar to lawyers with a bar association). If it got out that you deliberately misdiagnosed a patient to suit the whims of your employers then there's a good chance you'd never be allowed to practise medicine again (depending on the level of negligence involved. I.e deliberately misdiagnosing a BROKEN LEG). Medical malpractice is a tricky thing. From what I've been told by attorney friends who practice in that area of law, it takes a LOT to have a doctor found guilty of medical malpractice as the law gives them a lot of leeway for mistakes. The same holds true for reports or complaints made with regulatory bodies. As for legal malpractice, attorneys have to do something pretty blatantly bad to be disciplined and sometimes get away with it even then (in particular when it comes to influential or wealthy attorneys). I've seen and heard of some pretty shady things happening right under the nose of the California bar as a practicing attorney here. I'm not going to try to convince people that there are conspiracies or that there's corruption when it comes to these regulatory bodies, but I can tell you that they're certainly not full-proof and that plenty of medical and legal professionals have gotten away with pretty egregious behavior. Consider also that the regulatory bodies are made up of doctors/lawyers, who have a strong interest in maintaining the image of their professionals as competent and capable. One way to do that would be to punish those who commit malpractice, but another way would simply to keep the malpractice out of the public eye and/or portray it as honest mistakes. Lastly, think about who are the ones who are going to be filing these complaints with those regulatory bodies in these types of situations. It won't be the employers who may have contributed to the malpractice. It'd be the employees who are usually going up against a more powerful group of people who have larger role and longer standing in the industries they're in. Example: Luol Deng vs. The Bulls, the doctor and his medical group, etc. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
That+the Grant Hill thing+guys like Tmac/Arenas rushing their comebacks only to reinjure themselves and/or never be the same is why I maintain that DRose should only come back when he's ready, not when idiots on the internet want him to. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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Insomniac22
United States907 Posts
On May 10 2013 10:45 RowdierBob wrote: Grantland should do one of those "this organisation is a clusterfuck" type articles they did on the Dub a while back, but this time for Milwaukee. Although no really cares for the organisation. But here's a segment of the Bucks' stupidity in recent years: * Following the success of the 2010 "Fear the Dear" season, GM Hammond re-signs Salmons to a 5/40 mill deal. He also brings in Drew Gooden at 5/$32 mill and trades for Maggette (2/21 still owed). Fuck. * Trades down in 2011 draft; brings in S Jax for Magette; drafts raw SF Tobias Harris. * Sells low on team's biggest asset, Andrew Bogut, and brings in Monta Ellis in pointless pursuit of 8th seed in East. Trade fails, Bucks finish 9th. BUT here's the big kicker--Steph Curry was offered by the Dubs first but the Bucks insisted on Ellis as Curry was injured and they wanted to 'win now'. * Bucks trade Tobias Harris at this year's deadline for JJ Redick (to once again, 'win now' in securing 8th in the East). Harris breaks out (which was obviosuly going to happen for anyone who had seen him play with the Bucks--the kid has massive upside). Redick, astonishingly, is no needle mover and does nothing to help the Bucks. So for the coming off season the Bucks have their three very overrated guards--Jennings, Ellis and Reddick--all possibly as FAs. The Reddick one is particularly frustrating--either overpay to keep a non-impact 6th man at best, or concede you fucked up hugely by trading a second year rookie with big upside for a half season rental of JJ Reddick. Yikes. And then there is Jennings and Ellis. Both are terrible overrated, but with strong public profiles, and Bucks have to decide to let them walk (logic would agree with this path) or re-sign them. Good luck if you're a Bucks fan. This is only the last three or so years. Since Herb Kohl took over the team, they have made it to the second round once in something like 25 years. As a Milwaukee fan, thank you for reminding me of all of our horrible decision made by our front office. I'm going to go cry now  . | ||
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