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On June 14 2013 22:49 MrTBSC wrote:
let me try to explain again...
the reason for the high pricing is to keep of trolls and crybabies away until release where the game will cost bout 40$ or less the game is just not ready to be presented to the masses ... and therefore alpha is price for very interested RTSfans who realy want o support the game ... i explained already that Uber doesn´t want to screw over the kickstartercommunity ...
this is a crowdfunded game afterall ...
if you don´t want to pay 90$ (which i aswell wouldn´t pay) for early alpha or 60$ for beta (which i paid for ...ahem)
... then just wait ...
it shouldn´t be much of a problem to wait until relaease, is it?
release will be bout december were the price for the game will be bout 40$ or less
well ok, but then crowdfunding stuff should not appear on my "new releases" tab on steam.
Maybe valve is to blame as well for testing the waters with this title and not seperating their new crowdfunding venture more from their real store.
Lets be real here, the price is because of crowdfunding and not to attract some kind of elite gamer that also tests games for free in his time between winning starcraft tournaments.
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i like to throw a question in here
how much sense does it make to offer the massaudience an cheap early access when the developer already made a crowdfundingcampaign in which backers had to pay a lot more to get early into game...
and if you take a look on the kickstarter there is quite a number of alpha testers already
is it realy a good thing to throw in far more people in it ... people who have not much an idea how gamedevelopement works
and just want to play the game ... even though alphatesting isn´t meant for that but bugreporting and fixing ...
imagine the ammount of complains and unnessesary reopened threads in a forum for a hundred of times about the same topic or issue ... i don´t realy think that this would be any better ... in fact i think it would be far worse and disturb the prozess of the game ...
what i think about the 90$ early access sale on steam ... it shouldn´t be in there ... simply due to the nature of it´s users ...
i generaly think steam (not uber by the way because they did on the uberstore) should just put the 60$ beta pack in ... or just put the final sale in for when the game is done ...
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"Lets be real here, the price is because of crowdfunding and not to attract some kind of elite gamer that also tests games for free in his time between winning starcraft tournaments."
yes they don´t want to screw over their kickstarterbase who made the game possible in the first place .. which honestly i´m ok with ...
yes it is not meant for competitve elite gamers ... it is for those who love RTS gaming and want to support the concept ...
... thing is if the game is done ... does it realy need anymore support? not realy .. you are just buying the game ..
even though that money could further help make more content
... but in a state of alpha or beta you realy are not just paying for the game and early access but you support it with additional money ... is that realy that wrong?
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On June 14 2013 23:31 MrTBSC wrote:
i like to throw a question in here
how much sense does it make to offer the massaudience an cheap early access when the developer already made a crowdfundingcampaign in which backers had to pay a lot more to get early into game...
As far as I can see, the backers had to pay exactly the same amount of money.
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I'd be seriously fucked off if I was a backer and pledged $100+ to get alpha access, only for them to sell alpha access later on for $20.
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"As far as I can see, the backers had to pay exactly the same amount of money."
that´s right
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So is it donations/funding or are you just buying product at exorbitant prices on KS? The whole concept is getting muddled now.
Selling your alpha for $90 is just stupid and bad business. Just because it's KS where it's actively encouraged that you make dumb tiers full of stuff doesn't make it any less so.
The thing is, if this was $30, or $25, they would have made tons of money on pre order while in alpha, because it's a highly anticipated RTS game. Whether you want to say it's because of the KS $90 tier or putting it on Steam at $90, this whole concept of $90 for alpha was poor judgement.
If I were them, or anyone who made this mistake, I would simply tell it to the KS backers like it is: selling it as an alpha at reduced price will be much better for the company's financial situation, and that they are sorry they ever made this price point and that it was the wrong decision. Afterall, theirs was supposedly a donation, they are fervent supporters, and they are fewer than steam customers.
Instead they decided to compound wrong decisions and now have everyone on the internet mad at them, except for the sycophantic bunch that threw money at them in the first place.
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If they would have done this, this thread would be full of people saying how evil and money hungry they are because they made the backers pay $90 when the actual alpha only costs $25. And of course then there would be complaints that people would have to pay an additional $40 to get the actual game eventually.. Just let it go.
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On June 15 2013 01:50 floor exercise wrote:
So is it donations/funding or are you just buying product at exorbitant prices on KS? The whole concept is getting muddled now.
Selling your alpha for $90 is just stupid and bad business. Just because it's KS where it's actively encouraged that you make dumb tiers full of stuff doesn't make it any less so.
The thing is, if this was $30, or $25, they would have made tons of money on pre order while in alpha, because it's a highly anticipated RTS game. Whether you want to say it's because of the KS $90 tier or putting it on Steam at $90, this whole concept of $90 for alpha was poor judgement.
If I were them, or anyone who made this mistake, I would simply tell it to the KS backers like it is: selling it as an alpha at reduced price will be much better for the company's financial situation, and that they are sorry they ever made this price point and that it was the wrong decision. Afterall, theirs was supposedly a donation, they are fervent supporters, and they are fewer than steam customers.
Instead they decided to compound wrong decisions and now have everyone on the internet mad at them, except for the sycophantic bunch that threw money at them in the first place.
They cant just totally piss off their most dedicated supporters like that, it would be a terrible decision imo. I agree that in hindsight the price is absolutely terrible for a wider market but it probably looked a lot more attractive when they were writing the pricing tiers while glancing at their current budget forever ago.
They have to sleep in the bed they made.
If you think people are mad now you have no idea how pissed people would be when they realized they were essentially scammed out of 50 bucks.
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On June 15 2013 02:05 PassiveAce wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 01:50 floor exercise wrote:
So is it donations/funding or are you just buying product at exorbitant prices on KS? The whole concept is getting muddled now.
Selling your alpha for $90 is just stupid and bad business. Just because it's KS where it's actively encouraged that you make dumb tiers full of stuff doesn't make it any less so.
The thing is, if this was $30, or $25, they would have made tons of money on pre order while in alpha, because it's a highly anticipated RTS game. Whether you want to say it's because of the KS $90 tier or putting it on Steam at $90, this whole concept of $90 for alpha was poor judgement.
If I were them, or anyone who made this mistake, I would simply tell it to the KS backers like it is: selling it as an alpha at reduced price will be much better for the company's financial situation, and that they are sorry they ever made this price point and that it was the wrong decision. Afterall, theirs was supposedly a donation, they are fervent supporters, and they are fewer than steam customers.
Instead they decided to compound wrong decisions and now have everyone on the internet mad at them, except for the sycophantic bunch that threw money at them in the first place. They cant just totally piss off their most dedicated supporters like that, it would be a terrible decision imo. I agree that in hindsight the price is absolutely terrible for a wider market but it probably looked a lot more attractive when they were writing the pricing tiers while glancing at their current budget forever ago. They have to sleep in the bed they made. If you think people are mad now you have no idea how pissed people would be when they realized they were essentially scammed out of 50 bucks.
But they weren't scammed, kickstarter is donations to support a project you believe in. You are funding, not buying. Ultimately it's their stupid decision to put alpha as a perk in kickstarter at $90, not anyone elses.
Do you not see the fundamental difference between selling on steam and donations on kickstarter? I realize Kickstarter is completely retarded but we must be able to establish a difference between crowdfunding, the promised rewards, and actually selling an item at an online store like Steam.
Not to mention there's a variety of ways they can create exclusive content to reward backers at that tier. They just lack originality, good judgement, and are probably more than a little bit greedy.
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Dude.
If they bought in for the promise of alpha testing at $90 and then the devs turn around and sell it at $30 when alpha is released, its a scam.
It would be supremely stupid of them to sell the alpha for less then $90 now because every other supporter had to pay $90.
Il agree its a bad decision in hindsight, but I hardly think its a greedy one lol.
What would be greedy is for them to sell it for $30 and tell the people who payed $90 that they are shit out of luck.
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I'm afraid Kickstarter backers allowing themselves to be scammed isn't much of a revelation
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I dread to think what release day is going to bring if the company's planning is this terrible.
I mean, surely they just had to take a 10 minute mind trip into what the future may hold for their product to realize that this was a stupid thing to do from the start.
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I don't necessarily agree that selling it for $30 now would be greed. That would be far more in line with standard business practices with regard to selling early/unfinished versions of software.
When we really examine the present situation, I think we can all agree that there is one central problem: Alpha for $90. Whether you sold it there from Steam or Kickstarter or from the trunk of your car, it's just a bad idea. It's not necessarily one I think Kickstarter users would initially realize, but I don't personally think they are very smart consumers to begin with. Devoted maybe, but not smart.
I hope we can establish "Alpha for $90" as universally stupid. If so, it becomes no more or less stupid to sell it on Steam for $90 as well. So in essence, their answer to making a stupid decision, is to make the same stupid decision again, potentially on an even bigger scale.
What we can get out of all this is that maybe, just maybe, people should think before they fire off 97 different tiers of coffee mugs and bumper stickers and pre alpha beta gamma access to their games on Kickstarter. Because the result is actually just bad business under the guise of donations/funding.
I believe whatever they do, they've fucked up. And I believe now they've fucked up consecutively rather than do the best they can in this scenario, whether it to be a decision that will maximize sales and help fund the project (which is ultimately the goal of KS anyway, right?) and sell your alpha at a realistic price, or simply stop selling your alpha. They chose to do probably the worst thing instead, in my opinion.
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I just dont see how this is a serious problem. There are plenty of people like me who want to buy into alpha but cant because of the price, but as long as the project remains on schedule towards release then I dont think this is really a big deal. The project has been fully funded for a while now, so I dont think this is going to create financial issues for them. And obviously that means that enough people have bought into it that the pricing model works for them.
Like iv said before, I agree with you that in hindsight its probably a pretty bad call, but they are locked into the decision because if the early backers had known that they were gonna lower the price of the alpha after release then they would never have spent the money when they did.
I wouldnt read too much into this if I were you man, the game is coming along nicely from what I can see from streams and it will be priced reasonably at release.
edit- I think part of the problem is that its on steams front page, instead of behind the curtain like its been for so long. People dont expect to see a $90 ALPHA on the front page of steam, so I can understand why there would be some outrage.
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its a big deal because they are basically selling their kickstarter funding on the steam main page, im just as annoyed by valve as i am by the game publisher.
And rightfully, a lot of people got annoyed as well.
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The game is fully funded, now they are selling access to the game.
They cant sell it for a lower price for reasons that I have said like 3 times in two pages :p
Personally I like that steam is selling early access to games that are nearing completion, I was really happy when xenonauts came to steam because before that I had to use Desura.
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On June 15 2013 03:45 LaNague wrote:
its a big deal because they are basically selling their kickstarter funding on the steam main page, im just as annoyed by valve as i am by the game publisher.
And rightfully, a lot of people got annoyed as well.
Aaand why is that bad, exactly? Is that supposed to be unfair for the kickstarter backers or something?
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Sorry to digress from the debate, but I was wondering if there is multiplayer, or at least some kind of single player for the game available right now. I'm asking those of you who have paid; is it easy to find a game and make the commitment money worth it so that one can actually test the game?
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On June 15 2013 05:40 Mistapibb wrote:
Sorry to digress from the debate, but I was wondering if there is multiplayer, or at least some kind of single player for the game available right now. I'm asking those of you who have paid; is it easy to find a game and make the commitment money worth it so that one can actually test the game?
I was kind of wondering the same thing, but I'm such a big fan of TA that when I see this, I feel tempted to deal out 90 dollars that I DON'T EVEN HAVE.
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EPT
