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EVO 2012 - Page 99

Forum Index > General Games
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Prev 1 97 98 99 100 101 273 Next
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
July 08 2012 03:54 GMT
#1961
On July 08 2012 12:53 publicenemies wrote:
Anyone know where the bracket is?


http://challonge.com/evo_umvctop32
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
July 08 2012 03:56 GMT
#1962
On July 08 2012 12:51 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 12:50 On_Slaught wrote:
The Risk/Reward on Ryu isn't in the same galaxy as DP.


That's exactly why DP (and Zero) are not bad game design. :/


But when you're really really good, like FChamp is, then the risk drops considrably and the Reward rises. That is fine until you consider what was supposed to balance DP in the first place was the risk.

Going in circles at this point.

Esports yo.
VManOfMana
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States764 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 03:58:26
July 08 2012 03:57 GMT
#1963
On July 08 2012 11:42 semantics wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 11:26 Shiragaku wrote:
Holy shit flocker.

I just feel dirty watching flocker play, but in the same instance it's against viscant... soo =p

Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 11:11 Warpticon wrote:
On July 08 2012 11:09 semantics wrote:
On July 08 2012 10:45 Warpticon wrote:
On July 08 2012 10:26 TieN.nS) wrote:
On July 08 2012 10:22 VManOfMana wrote:
On July 08 2012 10:03 semantics wrote:
does it matter at the end of the day it's about raw numbers and evo can't compete in that regaurd in terms of unique users and hours watched of content per user. Ie ad rev potential.


At the end of the day Evo and FGC are not about ad revenue potential.


It's interesting how people coming from exclusively "eSports" perspective look at FGC events. For example, MLG's Dmaq compared Evo to slavery because of the small prize pools. This is not a league, it can barely be considered a business. All of these events happen because people in the community love the games.


This is one of the main disconnects that some people at the top of pro gaming leagues and such have with the fighting game community: not realizing that it is primarily a player based scene and that offering bigger payouts for 0.01% of the player base is a poor selling point to the other 99.99%. Bigger prizes is fine, fancy production value is fine, but that can't be your all you're selling.

Without large pay outs for 1st there is little reason to send a team to a tourny because then the prize wont even cover the cost of travel, in large part that's why you don't see Japanese players outside of evo just because it's not worth the cost of travel. So in the end like all pro things it's about money the more money going into these things the more the pay outs can be for like 1-5, which can be split between the teams if they have good enough people to take those spots.


You do realize this has nothing to do with what I was talking about, right?

You do realize that if i quote you it doesn't mean i have to make a direct response to what you posted, anyways your remark is silly if you don't understand how competitive pro games work. All you have to do is look at traditional games, like basketball or football and then ask yourself why or how bigger prizes help grow a scene. If you don't understand admiration and emulation then you'll never understand how ads work on people nor will you understand how more money in a prize pool attracts more players to compete and thus more people to shine and attract others. Pro games is about money that's what makes it pro, money to players money to companies sponsoring events and players coming from envious/amazed viewers.


By quoting someone, your actions *do* imply that you are responding to the quoted post. That is why you also have the option of making an unrelated post at the bottom of the page, or delete the quoted text.

Your remark is also the perfect example of "ESPORTS" people not understanding how the FGC has grown.

Payouts do help to allow increasing the infrastructure of events and sustain increasing player training regimes via sponsorships. But at the end, FGC has grown at a grassroots level, and money is not why players get involved. MLGs thousands in prize money did not help it outperform a major in player attendance. Japan has the most competitive scene in the world despite pots not being common in tournaments, if any (SBO is extraordinary in this regard). Evo developed in an era where sponsorship and corporate support was basically nil. Players play games that have zero chances to be taken seriously, even less to have a pot that pays off travel expenses for the winner.

Le's put it this way. Starcraft 2's competitive scene will die the day that Blizzard thinks it no longer sells enough copies, or decides its better to milk a new game. Evo is running a special Super Street Fighter II Turbo tournament, a game released in 1994. If somehow all sponsorship is pulled off, there will still be an Evo in some way or form, just like 10 years ago.

And this is why the FGC doesn't quite wants to be ESPORTS. Under the current business model, the extra money comes at the expense of autonomy. It becomes indentured service.
Woo Jung Ho, FIGHTING! | "With the death of BW comes the death of an idea. And that idea, held by many BW fans, was that a computer game could actually outlive the Next New Game cycle. And to some extent it did." -Falling
Quenchiest
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada286 Posts
July 08 2012 03:58 GMT
#1964
It's not particularly the characters that are the problem, it's the characters + xfactor. Level 3 xfactor just make certain characters ridiculously strong. Dark Phoenix being one of them.
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
July 08 2012 03:58 GMT
#1965
On July 08 2012 12:56 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 12:51 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On July 08 2012 12:50 On_Slaught wrote:
The Risk/Reward on Ryu isn't in the same galaxy as DP.


That's exactly why DP (and Zero) are not bad game design. :/


But when you're really really good, like FChamp is, then the risk drops considrably and the Reward rises. That is fine until you consider what was supposed to balance DP in the first place was the risk.

Going in circles at this point.

Esports yo.


So FChamp is really really good but the only way that Phoenix isn't the reason he's winning is if he doesn't win?
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 04:02:38
July 08 2012 03:58 GMT
#1966
On July 08 2012 12:56 On_Slaught wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 12:51 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On July 08 2012 12:50 On_Slaught wrote:
The Risk/Reward on Ryu isn't in the same galaxy as DP.


That's exactly why DP (and Zero) are not bad game design. :/


But when you're really really good, like FChamp is, then the risk drops considrably and the Reward rises. That is fine until you consider what was supposed to balance DP in the first place was the risk.

Going in circles at this point.

Esports yo.


...that arguments applies to players like Fanatiq, Noel Brown, etc. too. Please remember that everyone he has played against today is not close to his level. He can afford to use the Phoenix teams because of that, as well as the fact that they don't have the tools to negate DP play.

Just because Flocker dominates with Zero doesn't mean the Zero hype will always be around. C. Viper was considered to be trash at one point. Then people figured out the proper tech and she became a one-touch killer character with high execution. Wesker was godly at one point, today he is not. DP was arguably OP at one point, now she was nerfed and players actually have plans to beat her.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Looms
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4624 Posts
July 08 2012 04:00 GMT
#1967
oh lets hear that salt about phoenix lolol
publicenemies
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
458 Posts
July 08 2012 04:01 GMT
#1968
I want to see Justin!!!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
July 08 2012 04:02 GMT
#1969
I'll just say

"If Phoenix is that OP why doesn't everyone abuse her?"

For example that one dude earlier on got demolished when he tried that.

Also I think that his strategy is awesome, totally my favorite player in this tournament (Though I've never played the game and don't know much)
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
MethodSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States928 Posts
July 08 2012 04:02 GMT
#1970
On July 08 2012 12:58 TieN.nS) wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 12:56 On_Slaught wrote:
On July 08 2012 12:51 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On July 08 2012 12:50 On_Slaught wrote:
The Risk/Reward on Ryu isn't in the same galaxy as DP.


That's exactly why DP (and Zero) are not bad game design. :/


But when you're really really good, like FChamp is, then the risk drops considrably and the Reward rises. That is fine until you consider what was supposed to balance DP in the first place was the risk.

Going in circles at this point.

Esports yo.


So FChamp is really really good but the only way that Phoenix isn't the reason he's winning is if he doesn't win?


This guy is just salty... FChamp has said over and over his phoenix team is much weaker than with dorm, and every other pro agrees.
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
July 08 2012 04:02 GMT
#1971
What the fuck, apparently Yipes and Chris G are in danger of being DQ'd for not being at the station.
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
July 08 2012 04:03 GMT
#1972
Dude...I actually see Philipino champ do better with his Doom than his Phoenix. The only thing that his Phoenix does better than his Doom is the psychological damage.
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
July 08 2012 04:03 GMT
#1973
On July 08 2012 13:02 Redmark wrote:
What the fuck, apparently Yipes and Chris G are in danger of being DQ'd for not being at the station.


This after ShadyK got DQed earlier, lol. This is understandable early mornings but during top 32 you have to know you gotta be there. x_x
ShoKakuUtena
Profile Joined May 2011
United States304 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 04:06:35
July 08 2012 04:04 GMT
#1974
On July 08 2012 12:58 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 12:56 On_Slaught wrote:
On July 08 2012 12:51 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On July 08 2012 12:50 On_Slaught wrote:
The Risk/Reward on Ryu isn't in the same galaxy as DP.


That's exactly why DP (and Zero) are not bad game design. :/


But when you're really really good, like FChamp is, then the risk drops considrably and the Reward rises. That is fine until you consider what was supposed to balance DP in the first place was the risk.

Going in circles at this point.

Esports yo.


...that arguments applies to players like Fanatiq, Noel Brown, etc. too. Please remember that everyone he has played against today is not close to his level. He can afford to use the Phoenix teams because of that, as well as the fact that they don't have the tools to negate DP play.

Just because Flocker dominates with Zero doesn't mean the Zero hype will always be around. C. Viper was considered to be trash at one point. Then people figured out the proper tech and she became a one-touch killer character with high execution.


Add Knives to that list. XD Had nothing to deal with Phoenix as his team is Spencer-oriented.

And if anything, X-Factor is the REAL reason why Dark Phoenix is dangerous at all. X-Factor nullifies the fact that DP will lose health over time and has to spend meter (which isn't there initially when she transforms) to gain healing field. X-Factor's boosts to her move speed and damage just add to her already boosted mechanics. Without X-Factor, DP is much less threatening.
世界を革命する力を。
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
July 08 2012 04:04 GMT
#1975
On July 08 2012 13:03 TieN.nS) wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 13:02 Redmark wrote:
What the fuck, apparently Yipes and Chris G are in danger of being DQ'd for not being at the station.


This after ShadyK got DQed earlier, lol. This is understandable early mornings but during top 32 you have to know you gotta be there. x_x

If they get DQ'd it is actually going to be free for champ. Like, I won't even bother to watch free.
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 04:07:22
July 08 2012 04:06 GMT
#1976
On July 08 2012 13:04 Redmark wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2012 13:03 TieN.nS) wrote:
On July 08 2012 13:02 Redmark wrote:
What the fuck, apparently Yipes and Chris G are in danger of being DQ'd for not being at the station.


This after ShadyK got DQed earlier, lol. This is understandable early mornings but during top 32 you have to know you gotta be there. x_x

If they get DQ'd it is actually going to be free for champ. Like, I won't even bother to watch free.


Eh, he faces Chou next and then winner between Justin/Combofiend/Yipes probably. So it'll be ok! Chris G wound up losing to Flocker after showing up and he's on the other side of the bracket anyway.
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
July 08 2012 04:07 GMT
#1977
Yeah, but he beat Chou and Yipes pretty hard at FGTV house and Justin's not been that impressive.
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 04:10:01
July 08 2012 04:09 GMT
#1978
Wasn't Yipes drunk and sandbagging? Yipes' Dante is goddamn ferocious, it's like Zero with longer hitboxes.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 04:10:25
July 08 2012 04:10 GMT
#1979
On July 08 2012 13:07 Redmark wrote:
Yeah, but he beat Chou and Yipes pretty hard at FGTV house and Justin's not been that impressive.


It's still Justin and if there was ever a time to finally break out that Wolverine tech he's been hiding, it'll be against FlipChamp. Chou's still got an ace up his sleeve too.
publicenemies
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
458 Posts
July 08 2012 04:11 GMT
#1980
let's go JUSTIN!!!!
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