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On September 03 2011 05:29 Horst wrote:There should actually be a squad of 6 marines, not 3, if your working off fluff  A captain wouldn't be a member of a tactical marine combat unit, and would have a command squad consisting of 5 members. Maybe we get a sweet cinematic intro showing half the squad being cut down in an epic battle like DOW 1?
6? Standard tactical squad is made up of 4 Space Marines and 1 Space Marine Sergeant. Up to 5 additional Space Marines may be added. Tactical Squad isn't 6 as standard.
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On September 03 2011 05:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 05:29 Horst wrote:There should actually be a squad of 6 marines, not 3, if your working off fluff A captain wouldn't be a member of a tactical marine combat unit, and would have a command squad consisting of 5 members. Maybe we get a sweet cinematic intro showing half the squad being cut down in an epic battle like DOW 1? 6? Standard tactical squad is made up of 4 Space Marines and 1 Space Marine Sergeant. Up to 5 additional Space Marines may be added. Tactical Squad isn't 6 as standard.
Thank you for being english.
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On September 03 2011 05:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 05:29 Horst wrote:There should actually be a squad of 6 marines, not 3, if your working off fluff A captain wouldn't be a member of a tactical marine combat unit, and would have a command squad consisting of 5 members. Maybe we get a sweet cinematic intro showing half the squad being cut down in an epic battle like DOW 1? 6? Standard tactical squad is made up of 4 Space Marines and 1 Space Marine Sergeant. Up to 5 additional Space Marines may be added. Tactical Squad isn't 6 as standard.
Right, a standard tactical squad breakup is 10 space marines. A combat squad is a sergeant or second in command, + 4 troopers.
The character in THIS story, however, is a captain, not a sergeant. He would be accompanied by a command squad of 5 veteran members, instead of leading his own squad like a sergeant would.
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On September 03 2011 11:48 Horst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 05:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:On September 03 2011 05:29 Horst wrote:There should actually be a squad of 6 marines, not 3, if your working off fluff A captain wouldn't be a member of a tactical marine combat unit, and would have a command squad consisting of 5 members. Maybe we get a sweet cinematic intro showing half the squad being cut down in an epic battle like DOW 1? 6? Standard tactical squad is made up of 4 Space Marines and 1 Space Marine Sergeant. Up to 5 additional Space Marines may be added. Tactical Squad isn't 6 as standard. Right, a standard tactical squad breakup is 10 space marines. A combat squad is a sergeant or second in command, + 4 troopers. The character in THIS story, however, is a captain, not a sergeant. He would be accompanied by a command squad of 5 veteran members, instead of leading his own squad like a sergeant would.
Captain leads a company. That's more or less 100 marines, varying in some chapters who don't follow the Codex Astartes.
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Relic's 40k series are fun but I think it would be more awesome to have a total war style game with balance close to the fluff.
Plus building armies and commanding them would be amazing. However it would be really intensive to run armies that would be of appropriate scale without giving power races like Space Marines and Chaos Space marines unreasonably small armies. I mean imagine having like 1 mad expensive Tactical squad vs 1000s of guardsmen, wouldn't be fun even if it was balanced.
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On September 03 2011 12:24 Percutio wrote:Relic's 40k series are fun but I think it would be more awesome to have a total war style game with balance close to the fluff. Plus building armies and commanding them would be amazing. However it would be really intensive to run armies that would be of appropriate scale without giving power races like Space Marines and Chaos Space marines unreasonably small armies. I mean imagine having like 1 mad expensive Tactical squad vs 1000s of guardsmen, wouldn't be fun even if it was balanced.
There is a real-time strategy game for Warhammer 40K. It's called Dawn of War and I really enjoyed their games. I haven't gotten my hands on the sequels (Dawn of War 2 & Expansions), but the originals were great! Especially when you add population mods like increasing supply to 100 from the stock 20, but only if your computer can handle it.
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I mentioned that in the first line of the post
And still the army ratio is still toned down in that game.
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On September 03 2011 12:08 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 11:48 Horst wrote:On September 03 2011 05:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:On September 03 2011 05:29 Horst wrote:There should actually be a squad of 6 marines, not 3, if your working off fluff A captain wouldn't be a member of a tactical marine combat unit, and would have a command squad consisting of 5 members. Maybe we get a sweet cinematic intro showing half the squad being cut down in an epic battle like DOW 1? 6? Standard tactical squad is made up of 4 Space Marines and 1 Space Marine Sergeant. Up to 5 additional Space Marines may be added. Tactical Squad isn't 6 as standard. Right, a standard tactical squad breakup is 10 space marines. A combat squad is a sergeant or second in command, + 4 troopers. The character in THIS story, however, is a captain, not a sergeant. He would be accompanied by a command squad of 5 veteran members, instead of leading his own squad like a sergeant would. Captain leads a company. That's more or less 100 marines, varying in some chapters who don't follow the Codex Astartes.
Right, a captain leads a company. However, he also has a dedicated command squad he is attached to, of 5 veteran marines. He's not just hanging out by himself doing his own thing -___-
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I just played the Demo and dammmmmnnnnn that was awesome, awesome gameplay and smooth FPS. I can't buy it right away though cause I just bought Deus Ex >_< gotta wait another month or so.
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On September 03 2011 13:14 Horst wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 12:08 Manit0u wrote:On September 03 2011 11:48 Horst wrote:On September 03 2011 05:52 TotalBiscuit wrote:On September 03 2011 05:29 Horst wrote:There should actually be a squad of 6 marines, not 3, if your working off fluff A captain wouldn't be a member of a tactical marine combat unit, and would have a command squad consisting of 5 members. Maybe we get a sweet cinematic intro showing half the squad being cut down in an epic battle like DOW 1? 6? Standard tactical squad is made up of 4 Space Marines and 1 Space Marine Sergeant. Up to 5 additional Space Marines may be added. Tactical Squad isn't 6 as standard. Right, a standard tactical squad breakup is 10 space marines. A combat squad is a sergeant or second in command, + 4 troopers. The character in THIS story, however, is a captain, not a sergeant. He would be accompanied by a command squad of 5 veteran members, instead of leading his own squad like a sergeant would. Captain leads a company. That's more or less 100 marines, varying in some chapters who don't follow the Codex Astartes. Right, a captain leads a company. However, he also has a dedicated command squad he is attached to, of 5 veteran marines. He's not just hanging out by himself doing his own thing -___-
He could be though. Realistically speaking its not all that unpossible~CSquad could've been killed in battle prior to the story, or perhaps the insertion went awry and csquad+commander seperated.
Or maybe he just doesn't have one. Newly promoted captain that hasn't picked his not-so-secret-service agents yet? ^_^
Besides, you could always just enjoy the game T___T
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To be fair, a lot of the 40k "fluff" is actually pretty terrible. Not because there's a bunch of "handwavium" physics used, but because there are contradictions, or even outright impossibilities caused by said physics. Arguing about 40k canon is pretty dumb.
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edit: damnit sorry wrong thread
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To end all chapter organization disputes:
![[image loading]](http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/ce/CodexOrganisation.jpg)
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hmm..marine micro at its finest - someone tell MKP this
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2011 01:42 [Agony]x90 wrote:
If you're ever interested in a more "correct" portrayal of the 40k world, check out DoW 2. That game itself is modeled off of the "Dawn of War" deployment type (which is one of three). On the TT, you start with 1 HQ (your leader) and two troops (basic units). After that, everything else comes on at the start of the next term. The idea is that the battle is just starting, meaning that your troops slowly but slowly pour on.
Even still, the TT is by no means close to the actual fluff. One Space Marine is worth tens of thousands of lives of basic imperial guard. In the actual fiction, one chapter of space marines contains 1000 space marines, along with an array of supporting servitors, pilots, technician etc. who are all human or human equivalent. Of these 1000 troops, it is very rare for the chapter to lose a single space marine in an operation (apart from the epic mega battles that they always portray in all the artwork) and when they do fall, they must always be harvested for their gene seed, which is a foreign object placed into their bodies that reconfigure their genetic code to match that of their primarchs, who in turn were basically clones of the Emperor.
That is a Space Marine. An imperial guardsmen is one in a billion in his army alone. The imperial guard has thousands of these armies stationed all over the known galaxy. Imagine these men as fanatical, religious, blind following soldiers trained to kill and fight. They are constantly reminded of their religious duty to their emperor and if they fail always face the possibility of execution. This means that they are human, just like us, but that they will almost always fight tooth and nail, train to be in tip top shape and basically are, by our standards, super troops. However, these guys die by the tens of thousands in battles where the space marines would close to none. This is because no matter how well they are trained, they are leagues below any other race out there in terms of equipment and natural physical ability. For this reason, while the space marines are very tactical and smart about their approaches to battle, the Imperial Guard have no choice but to attack in massive droves on men (think Enemy at the Gates style).
This is basically saying, you may think this game shows the Space Marine as too strong, but as far as I could tell with the demo, this is how it should be. Regular Orkz are idiots with only half a brain enough to charge into battle. You occasionally meet Nobz, and these guys are basically on par with Space marines. This is perfect, because you only see a couple from time to time. Otherwise, it's natural to run into a dozen basic orkz and kill them with a team of 3 (should be 5 really) without too much trouble. The Orkz are, afterall, a horde army like the imperial guard. Now, i don't know about the chaos though. I hope that the majority of what you fight are cultists of sorts, because Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines with 10,000 years experience of fighting, just lacking the technology that the current Marines have. Ideally, one Space Marine will not be able to kill droves of CSM, but I won't be able to see that til the game comes out :-p.
/FICTION RANT
wow you got me very interested in 40k lore. can you suggest some books or places where i can read about it?
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This game looks so amazing.
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On September 03 2011 18:52 Golgotha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2011 01:42 [Agony]x90 wrote:
If you're ever interested in a more "correct" portrayal of the 40k world, check out DoW 2. That game itself is modeled off of the "Dawn of War" deployment type (which is one of three). On the TT, you start with 1 HQ (your leader) and two troops (basic units). After that, everything else comes on at the start of the next term. The idea is that the battle is just starting, meaning that your troops slowly but slowly pour on.
Even still, the TT is by no means close to the actual fluff. One Space Marine is worth tens of thousands of lives of basic imperial guard. In the actual fiction, one chapter of space marines contains 1000 space marines, along with an array of supporting servitors, pilots, technician etc. who are all human or human equivalent. Of these 1000 troops, it is very rare for the chapter to lose a single space marine in an operation (apart from the epic mega battles that they always portray in all the artwork) and when they do fall, they must always be harvested for their gene seed, which is a foreign object placed into their bodies that reconfigure their genetic code to match that of their primarchs, who in turn were basically clones of the Emperor.
That is a Space Marine. An imperial guardsmen is one in a billion in his army alone. The imperial guard has thousands of these armies stationed all over the known galaxy. Imagine these men as fanatical, religious, blind following soldiers trained to kill and fight. They are constantly reminded of their religious duty to their emperor and if they fail always face the possibility of execution. This means that they are human, just like us, but that they will almost always fight tooth and nail, train to be in tip top shape and basically are, by our standards, super troops. However, these guys die by the tens of thousands in battles where the space marines would close to none. This is because no matter how well they are trained, they are leagues below any other race out there in terms of equipment and natural physical ability. For this reason, while the space marines are very tactical and smart about their approaches to battle, the Imperial Guard have no choice but to attack in massive droves on men (think Enemy at the Gates style).
This is basically saying, you may think this game shows the Space Marine as too strong, but as far as I could tell with the demo, this is how it should be. Regular Orkz are idiots with only half a brain enough to charge into battle. You occasionally meet Nobz, and these guys are basically on par with Space marines. This is perfect, because you only see a couple from time to time. Otherwise, it's natural to run into a dozen basic orkz and kill them with a team of 3 (should be 5 really) without too much trouble. The Orkz are, afterall, a horde army like the imperial guard. Now, i don't know about the chaos though. I hope that the majority of what you fight are cultists of sorts, because Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines with 10,000 years experience of fighting, just lacking the technology that the current Marines have. Ideally, one Space Marine will not be able to kill droves of CSM, but I won't be able to see that til the game comes out :-p.
/FICTION RANT wow you got me very interested in 40k lore. can you suggest some books or places where i can read about it?
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page Everything you need to know is here. All the books are available on filetube but they only have more fluff.
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On September 03 2011 19:23 r33k wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2011 18:52 Golgotha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2011 01:42 [Agony]x90 wrote:
If you're ever interested in a more "correct" portrayal of the 40k world, check out DoW 2. That game itself is modeled off of the "Dawn of War" deployment type (which is one of three). On the TT, you start with 1 HQ (your leader) and two troops (basic units). After that, everything else comes on at the start of the next term. The idea is that the battle is just starting, meaning that your troops slowly but slowly pour on.
Even still, the TT is by no means close to the actual fluff. One Space Marine is worth tens of thousands of lives of basic imperial guard. In the actual fiction, one chapter of space marines contains 1000 space marines, along with an array of supporting servitors, pilots, technician etc. who are all human or human equivalent. Of these 1000 troops, it is very rare for the chapter to lose a single space marine in an operation (apart from the epic mega battles that they always portray in all the artwork) and when they do fall, they must always be harvested for their gene seed, which is a foreign object placed into their bodies that reconfigure their genetic code to match that of their primarchs, who in turn were basically clones of the Emperor.
That is a Space Marine. An imperial guardsmen is one in a billion in his army alone. The imperial guard has thousands of these armies stationed all over the known galaxy. Imagine these men as fanatical, religious, blind following soldiers trained to kill and fight. They are constantly reminded of their religious duty to their emperor and if they fail always face the possibility of execution. This means that they are human, just like us, but that they will almost always fight tooth and nail, train to be in tip top shape and basically are, by our standards, super troops. However, these guys die by the tens of thousands in battles where the space marines would close to none. This is because no matter how well they are trained, they are leagues below any other race out there in terms of equipment and natural physical ability. For this reason, while the space marines are very tactical and smart about their approaches to battle, the Imperial Guard have no choice but to attack in massive droves on men (think Enemy at the Gates style).
This is basically saying, you may think this game shows the Space Marine as too strong, but as far as I could tell with the demo, this is how it should be. Regular Orkz are idiots with only half a brain enough to charge into battle. You occasionally meet Nobz, and these guys are basically on par with Space marines. This is perfect, because you only see a couple from time to time. Otherwise, it's natural to run into a dozen basic orkz and kill them with a team of 3 (should be 5 really) without too much trouble. The Orkz are, afterall, a horde army like the imperial guard. Now, i don't know about the chaos though. I hope that the majority of what you fight are cultists of sorts, because Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines with 10,000 years experience of fighting, just lacking the technology that the current Marines have. Ideally, one Space Marine will not be able to kill droves of CSM, but I won't be able to see that til the game comes out :-p.
/FICTION RANT wow you got me very interested in 40k lore. can you suggest some books or places where i can read about it? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page Everything you need to know is here. All the books are available on filetube but they only have more fluff.
The only books really worth reading are Horus Heresy series, for Space Marines, Chaos and general history. Gaunt's Ghosts for Imperial Guard (although the first book can be a bit hard to read). The Word Bearer's trilogy is also nice but right now it's nigh impossible to get it (out of print and out of stock everywhere).
Horus Heresy series contain so much epic that you may have trouble breathing when reading them.
I've lent my books to a friend, but if someone would be so kind as to quote the bombing of Istvaan III passage from Galaxy in Flames it could give people a glimpse of what kind of things are going on in this books.
Edit: Oh, the Eisenhorn trilogy was awesome too! Great insight on Inquisition.
VVV
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On September 03 2011 18:52 Golgotha wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2011 01:42 [Agony]x90 wrote:
If you're ever interested in a more "correct" portrayal of the 40k world, check out DoW 2. That game itself is modeled off of the "Dawn of War" deployment type (which is one of three). On the TT, you start with 1 HQ (your leader) and two troops (basic units). After that, everything else comes on at the start of the next term. The idea is that the battle is just starting, meaning that your troops slowly but slowly pour on.
Even still, the TT is by no means close to the actual fluff. One Space Marine is worth tens of thousands of lives of basic imperial guard. In the actual fiction, one chapter of space marines contains 1000 space marines, along with an array of supporting servitors, pilots, technician etc. who are all human or human equivalent. Of these 1000 troops, it is very rare for the chapter to lose a single space marine in an operation (apart from the epic mega battles that they always portray in all the artwork) and when they do fall, they must always be harvested for their gene seed, which is a foreign object placed into their bodies that reconfigure their genetic code to match that of their primarchs, who in turn were basically clones of the Emperor.
That is a Space Marine. An imperial guardsmen is one in a billion in his army alone. The imperial guard has thousands of these armies stationed all over the known galaxy. Imagine these men as fanatical, religious, blind following soldiers trained to kill and fight. They are constantly reminded of their religious duty to their emperor and if they fail always face the possibility of execution. This means that they are human, just like us, but that they will almost always fight tooth and nail, train to be in tip top shape and basically are, by our standards, super troops. However, these guys die by the tens of thousands in battles where the space marines would close to none. This is because no matter how well they are trained, they are leagues below any other race out there in terms of equipment and natural physical ability. For this reason, while the space marines are very tactical and smart about their approaches to battle, the Imperial Guard have no choice but to attack in massive droves on men (think Enemy at the Gates style).
This is basically saying, you may think this game shows the Space Marine as too strong, but as far as I could tell with the demo, this is how it should be. Regular Orkz are idiots with only half a brain enough to charge into battle. You occasionally meet Nobz, and these guys are basically on par with Space marines. This is perfect, because you only see a couple from time to time. Otherwise, it's natural to run into a dozen basic orkz and kill them with a team of 3 (should be 5 really) without too much trouble. The Orkz are, afterall, a horde army like the imperial guard. Now, i don't know about the chaos though. I hope that the majority of what you fight are cultists of sorts, because Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines with 10,000 years experience of fighting, just lacking the technology that the current Marines have. Ideally, one Space Marine will not be able to kill droves of CSM, but I won't be able to see that til the game comes out :-p.
/FICTION RANT wow you got me very interested in 40k lore. can you suggest some books or places where i can read about it?
If you like space marines, I'd suggest :
Brothers of the Snake
http://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Snake-Warhammer-40-000/dp/1844165477/ref=tmm_mmp_title_0
Grey Knights (A chapter of space marines dedicated ONLY to fighting and killing daemons)
http://www.amazon.com/Grey-Knights-Omnibus-Warhammer-000/dp/1844166961
There are others, but these are the best examples IMO.
Other recommended 40k books:
Eisenhorn (Story of the career of an Inquisitor, as he hunts down aliens and heretics)
http://www.amazon.com/Eisenhorn-Warhammer-40-000-Omnibus/dp/1844161560/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315045826&sr=1-1
Ravenor (One of Eisenhorn's apprentices, who becomes an Inquisitor in his own right)
http://www.amazon.com/Ravenor-Omnibus-Dan-Abnett/dp/1844167372/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315045884&sr=1-1
Titanicus (A story about a large-scale battle between Imperial titans and Chaos titans over the fate of a forgeworld)
http://www.amazon.com/Titanicus-Warhammer-000-Dan-Abnett/dp/1844167852/ref=sr_1_1_title_0_main?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1315045963&sr=1-1
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The only books really worth reading are Horus Heresy series, for Space Marines, Chaos and general history. Gaunt's Ghosts for Imperial Guard (although the first book can be a bit hard to read). The Word Bearer's trilogy is also nice but right now it's nigh impossible to get it (out of print and out of stock everywhere).
I disagree. If you really want a fluff bible, find a second hand or ebay copy of the codex imperialis (edit: given the book has been out of print for over a decade and a half,I think it's ok to link you to this download copy )
I cannot emphasise enough just how incredible that book is. It has listings on all the original 40k factions and troops, written in their original form by priestly, chambers and johnson, the men who came up with 40k to begin with. None of the modern stuff really comes close. I still have my doggeared copy which I read like fifty times and memorised most of. I can still cite you the list of space marine implants that comes from this book ^^
The artwork is perhaps not as amazing as modern GW art (one aspect in which they have improved somewhat over time) but the writing is topnotch compared to the modern silliness.
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EPT
