On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
It may make the game slower, but you can't deny that smokes were a little too silly on certain maps. I count Inferno as a heavily CT sided map because of how strong smokes were at cutting off Banana basically the entire round. With more time, it's now more viable to bait out smokes earlier and then wait them out than it was before, leading to more dynamic T sides.
It also makes CT sides more likely to go for retakes after the plant, because they have more time to do so. Instead of waiting for people to find them or watching a guy stare at a corner for 35 seconds, you now have more opportunities to actually contest for round wins. I think it will be a positive change. I don't think retakes were particularly easy before the change and it certainly doesn't make them too easy now.
The main timer change is w/e, I don't think it will matter as much because the pros aren't JUST chain smoking banana, they will be able to accommodate that 10 second gap throughout a round which reaction flashes/mollies/space control/ etc., and that's worst case scenario.
Or they could just add a skybox so you can't smoke banana from arches and spawn. Or add a net above the banana to prevent smokes but allow flashes. This time extension isn't even close to being as effective as those changes would be.
Imagine if nuke was still in comp play during a major after the +5 second bomb timer though. No fun allowed.
On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
It may make the game slower, but you can't deny that smokes were a little too silly on certain maps. I count Inferno as a heavily CT sided map because of how strong smokes were at cutting off Banana basically the entire round. With more time, it's now more viable to bait out smokes earlier and then wait them out than it was before, leading to more dynamic T sides.
It also makes CT sides more likely to go for retakes after the plant, because they have more time to do so. Instead of waiting for people to find them or watching a guy stare at a corner for 35 seconds, you now have more opportunities to actually contest for round wins. I think it will be a positive change. I don't think retakes were particularly easy before the change and it certainly doesn't make them too easy now.
Id rather have smokes nerfed than make the game slower.
On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
It may make the game slower, but you can't deny that smokes were a little too silly on certain maps. I count Inferno as a heavily CT sided map because of how strong smokes were at cutting off Banana basically the entire round. With more time, it's now more viable to bait out smokes earlier and then wait them out than it was before, leading to more dynamic T sides.
It also makes CT sides more likely to go for retakes after the plant, because they have more time to do so. Instead of waiting for people to find them or watching a guy stare at a corner for 35 seconds, you now have more opportunities to actually contest for round wins. I think it will be a positive change. I don't think retakes were particularly easy before the change and it certainly doesn't make them too easy now.
Id rather have smokes nerfed than make the game slower.
I don't disagree, but Valve have other priorities and this change has some upsides as I've said.
As for iBP being unbanned, I favor it personally. It's been enough time that I think they've been punished sufficiently. I also think that the main perpetrators were the guys placing the bets, and they've been rooted out. I also think they were made an example of and now the entire scene knows not to be quite so stupid.
On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
It may make the game slower, but you can't deny that smokes were a little too silly on certain maps. I count Inferno as a heavily CT sided map because of how strong smokes were at cutting off Banana basically the entire round. With more time, it's now more viable to bait out smokes earlier and then wait them out than it was before, leading to more dynamic T sides.
It also makes CT sides more likely to go for retakes after the plant, because they have more time to do so. Instead of waiting for people to find them or watching a guy stare at a corner for 35 seconds, you now have more opportunities to actually contest for round wins. I think it will be a positive change. I don't think retakes were particularly easy before the change and it certainly doesn't make them too easy now.
Id rather have smokes nerfed than make the game slower.
I don't disagree, but Valve have other priorities and this change has some upsides as I've said.
Honestly it seems like Valve dont give a fuck about the competitive scene. Not very positive
On December 13 2015 07:08 Foxxan wrote: Bomb timer=5sec up. I dont see why its such a big deal. If terrorists plant the bomb and get good plant positions, will still be really hard for ct to get it. Usually ct saves. Not very fun is it?
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
It may make the game slower, but you can't deny that smokes were a little too silly on certain maps. I count Inferno as a heavily CT sided map because of how strong smokes were at cutting off Banana basically the entire round. With more time, it's now more viable to bait out smokes earlier and then wait them out than it was before, leading to more dynamic T sides.
It also makes CT sides more likely to go for retakes after the plant, because they have more time to do so. Instead of waiting for people to find them or watching a guy stare at a corner for 35 seconds, you now have more opportunities to actually contest for round wins. I think it will be a positive change. I don't think retakes were particularly easy before the change and it certainly doesn't make them too easy now.
Id rather have smokes nerfed than make the game slower.
I don't disagree, but Valve have other priorities and this change has some upsides as I've said.
Honestly it seems like Valve dont give a fuck about the competitive scene. Not very positive
What a tired argument. Compared to what? Old pre-CSGO Valve? LMAO. Compared to other companies with token "esports divisions"? Compared to a certain micro-managed moba? etc. Is the reddit mass hysteria leaking?
The majors wouldn't exist without valve so it's obvious that they care, but then you have to find a way to rectify that with the fact that they are changing a decade old timing tradition(not to mention a few years in this exact game) for no obvious or clearly stated reason. Not to mention changing inaccuracy numbers on the most important guns in competitive play.
It is very weird, and I don't know what train of thought they are following to reach the conclusions they have. There must be some way to make these facts cohere, but I guess I'm still too sad to do it.
Anecdotal evidence of course but I have watched quite a bit of CS these past few months. The only map I would consider to be CT sided is Inferno because of smoke abuse and the pit being incredibly hard to take. Even Train which was one of the most CT sided maps in the game before is now decently balanced I feel. Some teams have their strengths on either side but most maps seem to be about even. The M41s nerf really hit quite hard as well.
They might be CT/T sided on lower levels of play but within like the top 10 or so the only map that is significantly CT sided appears to be inferno to me.
Most maps are already CT-sided. Why would you buff CTs?
But they're not.
What? Inferno, Mirage, Nuke (not really played currently) and Train are heavily CT-favoured. Cache and Overpass are moderately CT-favoured. Dust 2 is moderately T-favoured and Cobble is about even and also heavily depends on the team because still not entirely figured out.
I excluded Season because it only has one matched played on in 2015 and is of no statistical significance because of that.
Inferno is the only map that I say Ts actually have a difficult time on nowadays.
Mirage has its moments but yet teams like VP and LG win their T sides quite often. Train likewise sees better teams win the T side quite often (like LG-Na'Vi and Na'Vi-Fnatic at EEPL). Cache and Overpass are almost completely even, and D2 and Cobble are certainly T sided.
Looking at the whole year is misleading as the metagame at the start of the year was actually super CT-favored. Since then, we've seen the only good CT rifle (M4A1) get nerfed into the ground, and the metagame stay force-focused meaning T sides have been getting stronger. The round and bomb time changes actually even out, because the round time is a buff to T sides, while the bomb time is a buff to CT sides. So no, there is no overwhelming CT advantage that somehow just got worse.
Of all the changes this patch, the pistol moving accuracy nerf and the timer changes are actually the best ones. I'd say both will be a net positive as time goes on. What you should be focusing on is the rifle changes, and the introduction of an incredibly poorly designed pistol into a game that already has had many issues balancing its pistols.
Pistol change i dont mind, but imho the timer change doesnt add anything positive in the game, just makes the game slower.
It may make the game slower, but you can't deny that smokes were a little too silly on certain maps. I count Inferno as a heavily CT sided map because of how strong smokes were at cutting off Banana basically the entire round. With more time, it's now more viable to bait out smokes earlier and then wait them out than it was before, leading to more dynamic T sides.
It also makes CT sides more likely to go for retakes after the plant, because they have more time to do so. Instead of waiting for people to find them or watching a guy stare at a corner for 35 seconds, you now have more opportunities to actually contest for round wins. I think it will be a positive change. I don't think retakes were particularly easy before the change and it certainly doesn't make them too easy now.
Id rather have smokes nerfed than make the game slower.
I don't disagree, but Valve have other priorities and this change has some upsides as I've said.
Honestly it seems like Valve dont give a fuck about the competitive scene. Not very positive
What a tired argument. Compared to what? Old pre-CSGO Valve? LMAO. Compared to other companies with token "esports divisions"? Compared to a certain micro-managed moba? etc. Is the reddit mass hysteria leaking?
Well, just compare it to Blizzard with SC2. They atleast communicate with the pros to try to ensure that changes that are made would be good, and it seems to work out for most bit. Then Valve does this from out of nowhere without communicating with any of the pros, making a gamechanging patch which most of the pros disagree with (hell even most of the community)
Obviously pros disagree, they want to keep their competitive advantage.. Do you think jw would agree with cz nerf, or kenny with awp nerf?
Ultimately, rifle changes are nbd and people will adapt (just as awp isn't dead after the nerf). Timer changes are so/so, could be spun either way and but certainly aren't game-breaking. (As an aside, I think devs were too lazy to rebuild every single map around new smoke timings so they just gave everyone more time instead - not necessarily wrong either).
Pistol nerf is a bit ham-fisted (glock, p2k should not have been touched imo) but also isn't the end of the world. R8 is nerfed so it's irrelevant now. (Inb4 it was op for 1 day, devs are clearly clueless)
On December 15 2015 01:00 greggy wrote: Obviously pros disagree, they want to keep their competitive advantage.. Do you think jw would agree with cz nerf, or kenny with awp nerf?
Ultimately, rifle changes are nbd and people will adapt (just as awp isn't dead after the nerf). Timer changes are so/so, could be spun either way and but certainly aren't game-breaking. (As an aside, I think devs were too lazy to rebuild every single map around new smoke timings so they just gave everyone more time instead - not necessarily wrong either).
Pistol nerf is a bit ham-fisted (glock, p2k should not have been touched imo) but also isn't the end of the world. R8 is nerfed so it's irrelevant now. (Inb4 it was op for 1 day, devs are clearly clueless)
Well not every pro disagree. But then again a lot of them really don't understand the patch that well either (Shox even thought that tapping had been buffed) and this is because the patchnotes are not clear at all and the actual effects of the changes are not exactly always intuitive.
And this is exactly where I have an issue with. I am all for promoting tapping, or maybe even nerf spraying a bit in comparison, BUT the changes made to do it by valve are not even close to being optimal to achieve that effect. These changes are lazy, detrimental to the game and poorly thought, and this is where people have problems with them. As Pimp explained on reddit (first post). Adding rng everywhere (and in the process nerfing spraying) is a terrible design choice, and people are completely justified to be pissed about it.
Overall, the "people will adapt" mentality is a terrible one. You do not build a great game by just taking it up the ass everytime the devs make a terrible design choice. And I'm not saying everything about the patch is bad. We do need more data on bomb timers so i'll wait for that one, the r8 was obviously going to be fixed quickly (even if I don't know why this gun was implemented anyway other than the dirty skin money), the pistol nerf is a bit heavy-handed on the glock but it's fundamentally not that bad of a change. The only problem I really have, and it is a big one, is the "we fix everything with rng" mentality for the rifle change. I'd rather have them buff tapping by giving 100% first-bullet accuracy to the ak and m4, get rid of that damned rng (well at least for the first bullet).
Looking at all the videos people are posting about the rifle nerfs, it doesn't seem too bad. It just won't be as tight as before. Spraying does feel off at all ranges but whatever I guess. If they just buffed first shot accuracy then there would be less incentive to spray over tapping but since they choose to nerf both, spraying is still the way to go.
The SG and AUG probably won't see any kind of play still because they cost more. Valve doesn't seem to understand the economy aspect of CS as apparent by adding a $850 awp. If they want people to use SG and AUG then they should just remove the M4s and AK. That's pretty much the only way.
On December 15 2015 04:28 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm reasonably sure that the SG is quite viable now $300 more isn't nothing but T rounds are cheap anyway and the gun has a lot of upside.
There are maybe 2 to 3 spots where long range battles can happen on any map and the rest you are moving closer to the bomb site as a T or the Ts are coming closer to you as a CT. I don't think the SG or AUG are worth it for those long range battles when you're fighting mid to close range for most of the game anyway. Most players seem to choose the AWP for those situations anyway.
Stop lumping the Aug in with the SG the Aug is just a worse M4 for more money the SG is now a superior AK (due to tighter spraying accuracy) for $300 more. Worth buying in the situation where you don't care about the $300. However, most pros probably aren't as comfortable with it for spray pattern reasons etc so you won't see it too much.
On December 15 2015 04:28 Sn0_Man wrote: I'm reasonably sure that the SG is quite viable now $300 more isn't nothing but T rounds are cheap anyway and the gun has a lot of upside.
There are maybe 2 to 3 spots where long range battles can happen on any map and the rest you are moving closer to the bomb site as a T or the Ts are coming closer to you as a CT. I don't think the SG or AUG are worth it for those long range battles when you're fighting mid to close range for most of the game anyway. Most players seem to choose the AWP for those situations anyway.
SG is pretty damn useful at mid to close range aswell, when you learn the spray controk.
EPT
