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On September 21 2012 11:00 Belisarius wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:48 Duka08 wrote:On September 21 2012 10:33 adwodon wrote:On September 21 2012 07:29 Durak wrote:On September 21 2012 05:33 masterbreti wrote:
Can I just say that Borderlands 2 is the best fps game of all time, bar none. I really can't think of a game that has more polish in a fps game. I still think there could be significant improvement for the PC version. I feel as if a lot of the menus (skill trees and inventory specifically) and UI in general could be improved. It's still as challenging as BL1 to compare items and navigate/view your entire inventory easily. As for the skill tree, you can't view the entire skill tree as well as mouse over to view the skill description, which is kind of key. Personally dislike the way the game handles with a mouse + keyboard so I stick with a controller and it feels perfect, which is no surprise considering its a console game. As a PC gamer if you want to get the best experience you should invest in a controller for these types of releases.While its nice if a game can be ported properly, often times its just not really practical or possible. When a game is built from the ground up for a console release you can't expect any different. It's like expecting a muscle car to take corners well. Wait what. Everything about this is fine. It doesn't feel like a port nearly as badly as some other recent games (shooters too even).... Ignoring the fact that the guy you quoted just tried to tell everyone that FPS games are best played with a controller.... The issue is the menu system. It's quite clunky and cluttered with a mouse. The skill tree is the worst one, for me, because the side menu obscures the left-hand tree. That makes it a (minor, but notable) chore to upskill anything on that tree, because you have to click twice instead of once and wait for it to recenter. It also continues to default to the middle tree even if I've so far put every single point into the hidden one. It's just little things like that. That kind of thing is less of an issue on a console, because the console doesn't actually need to see the tree it's navigating to; you just tap the stick left and it goes. In addition, you need multiple actions to get anywhere anyway (stick left, down, down, down, accept), and so you're used to minor delays.
At what point did I say all fps?
This game is clearly designed for controllers, the slow movement + sprinting mechanic, the large iron sights sights, I'd even go as far as saying iron sights in general are best used in console games, but they do have their place in PC fps if used properly.
Its an FPS designed for console.
Its entirely different mechanically than a game like UT, Quake or CS. Compare how those games work to Halo, CoD etc They are very very different, the latter playing better with a controller in my opinion.
Maybe its because I played a fair bit of CS before I moved on to SC2 but playing Borderlands 2 with a mouse and keyboard just felt wrong, it feels like it was designed for a controller, so I use a controller. Theres nothing wrong with that, its just the way the game was designed. If you don't pick up on that then don't use a controller, save yourself some money.
And I never said people should get a controller, I said that if a game is designed for a controller I advice getting one as the UI problems, control issues should be non-existent. Just some common sense advice if you ask me. As a PC Gamer you have the best of both worlds with regards to controls.
Not to mention platformers etc are infinitely better on a controller.
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Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix not being able to join friends games through steam?
Having a lot of issues.
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On September 21 2012 18:20 adwodon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 11:00 Belisarius wrote:On September 21 2012 10:48 Duka08 wrote:On September 21 2012 10:33 adwodon wrote:On September 21 2012 07:29 Durak wrote:On September 21 2012 05:33 masterbreti wrote:
Can I just say that Borderlands 2 is the best fps game of all time, bar none. I really can't think of a game that has more polish in a fps game. I still think there could be significant improvement for the PC version. I feel as if a lot of the menus (skill trees and inventory specifically) and UI in general could be improved. It's still as challenging as BL1 to compare items and navigate/view your entire inventory easily. As for the skill tree, you can't view the entire skill tree as well as mouse over to view the skill description, which is kind of key. Personally dislike the way the game handles with a mouse + keyboard so I stick with a controller and it feels perfect, which is no surprise considering its a console game. As a PC gamer if you want to get the best experience you should invest in a controller for these types of releases.While its nice if a game can be ported properly, often times its just not really practical or possible. When a game is built from the ground up for a console release you can't expect any different. It's like expecting a muscle car to take corners well. Wait what. Everything about this is fine. It doesn't feel like a port nearly as badly as some other recent games (shooters too even).... Ignoring the fact that the guy you quoted just tried to tell everyone that FPS games are best played with a controller.... The issue is the menu system. It's quite clunky and cluttered with a mouse. The skill tree is the worst one, for me, because the side menu obscures the left-hand tree. That makes it a (minor, but notable) chore to upskill anything on that tree, because you have to click twice instead of once and wait for it to recenter. It also continues to default to the middle tree even if I've so far put every single point into the hidden one. It's just little things like that. That kind of thing is less of an issue on a console, because the console doesn't actually need to see the tree it's navigating to; you just tap the stick left and it goes. In addition, you need multiple actions to get anywhere anyway (stick left, down, down, down, accept), and so you're used to minor delays. At what point did I say all fps? This game is clearly designed for controllers, the slow movement + sprinting mechanic, the large iron sights sights, I'd even go as far as saying iron sights in general are best used in console games, but they do have their place in PC fps if used properly. Its an FPS designed for console. Its entirely different mechanically than a game like UT, Quake or CS. Compare how those games work to Halo, CoD etc They are very very different, the latter playing better with a controller in my opinion. Maybe its because I played a fair bit of CS before I moved on to SC2 but playing Borderlands 2 with a mouse and keyboard just felt wrong, it feels like it was designed for a controller, so I use a controller. Theres nothing wrong with that, its just the way the game was designed. If you don't pick up on that then don't use a controller, save yourself some money. And I never said people should get a controller, I said that if a game is designed for a controller I advice getting one as the UI problems, control issues should be non-existent. Just some common sense advice if you ask me. As a PC Gamer you have the best of both worlds with regards to controls. Not to mention platformers etc are infinitely better on a controller.
I agree with you that the game was designed for a controller. The reason is that it is easier to go from controller -> mouse+keyboard rather than design for PC and try to adapt for controller. However, my point is that I would prefer the game if it was solely designed and released for the PC.
My biggest faults with the game are due to the fact that it has been designed with controller accessibility. Most of the UI, and therefore gameplay in general, would be greatly improved with a PC-designed interface. Everything related to items/inventory management is garbage compared to what it could be. If you contrast Borderlands with Diablo for example, in Diablo it is very easy to roll your mouse over a bunch of items quickly to discard the junk and compare stats. In Borderlands, it takes a whole bunch of extra clicks which isn't just wasteful but really detrimental for this sort of game. As a result, it is tedious to collect and compare items, which is a core aspect of the game.
The skill tree is another example of this though not nearly as serious. You cannot view the entire skill tree and quickly mouse over the different skills to see what they do. You can only do that one "section" at a time, which isn't helpful if you want to min+max/think about the entire picture. If you want to see the entire skill tree, you can't see what the skills do, which isn't helpful for the majority of players. The way that I do it is to load up the skill trees on the website, which is how it should be ingame.
I still think BL2 is a good game but it could be a better game if it was only released for PC. Well, that's notwithstanding the fact that it probably wouldn't have been made if they didn't get a lot of their revenue from consoles.
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Wow, Axton's Sabre Turret is so much better than the one in the first Borderlands. Can't say for high level though, but at lvl 6 it's fucking good. I remember forgetting using it in the first Borderlands, but not anymore... imba! :D
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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On September 21 2012 23:36 HolydaKing wrote:
Wow, Axton's Sabre Turret is so much better than the one in the first Borderlands. Can't say for high level though, but at lvl 6 it's fucking good. I remember forgetting using it in the first Borderlands, but not anymore... imba! :D
Yeah and the fact that you can pick it up if you want it to have a shorter cool down is boss. For Single Player having that turret is a life saver. In one tree you can make it last 10 seconds longer too.
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I dont see how Unreal or other fps games have better mouse support than Borderlands 2. Its a perfect PC game. No acceleration of the mouse and total control.
A gamepad can never ever compare to a mouse since gamepads have analogue movement, that can never be as fast as a mouse reading your every dpi movement on the pad.
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I have the game.
I dont dare play it.
I cant stay up 3 nights in a row for gaming again T_T
Somebody kill me QQ
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On September 21 2012 23:47 Avean wrote:
I dont see how Unreal or other fps games have better mouse support than Borderlands 2. Its a perfect PC game. No acceleration of the mouse and total control.
A gamepad can never ever compare to a mouse since gamepads have analogue movement, that can never be as fast as a mouse reading your every dpi movement on the pad.
It's about game design, not mouse support. There's a difference with fps that are designed with consoles first in mind than fps that are design for pc first. Borderlands works excellent with mouse and keyboard but there's definatelly a console feel to the gameplay (limitations in features because you need to be able to use a controller, how the guns work and so on) That doesn't mean it's better or worse, it's just different and not everyone are going to like it.
Often people complain about the ports being crappy but since borderlands 2 are actually a good port it naturally leads the discussion into this territory instead.
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On September 21 2012 23:34 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 18:20 adwodon wrote:On September 21 2012 11:00 Belisarius wrote:On September 21 2012 10:48 Duka08 wrote:On September 21 2012 10:33 adwodon wrote:On September 21 2012 07:29 Durak wrote:On September 21 2012 05:33 masterbreti wrote:
Can I just say that Borderlands 2 is the best fps game of all time, bar none. I really can't think of a game that has more polish in a fps game. I still think there could be significant improvement for the PC version. I feel as if a lot of the menus (skill trees and inventory specifically) and UI in general could be improved. It's still as challenging as BL1 to compare items and navigate/view your entire inventory easily. As for the skill tree, you can't view the entire skill tree as well as mouse over to view the skill description, which is kind of key. Personally dislike the way the game handles with a mouse + keyboard so I stick with a controller and it feels perfect, which is no surprise considering its a console game. As a PC gamer if you want to get the best experience you should invest in a controller for these types of releases.While its nice if a game can be ported properly, often times its just not really practical or possible. When a game is built from the ground up for a console release you can't expect any different. It's like expecting a muscle car to take corners well. Wait what. Everything about this is fine. It doesn't feel like a port nearly as badly as some other recent games (shooters too even).... Ignoring the fact that the guy you quoted just tried to tell everyone that FPS games are best played with a controller.... The issue is the menu system. It's quite clunky and cluttered with a mouse. The skill tree is the worst one, for me, because the side menu obscures the left-hand tree. That makes it a (minor, but notable) chore to upskill anything on that tree, because you have to click twice instead of once and wait for it to recenter. It also continues to default to the middle tree even if I've so far put every single point into the hidden one. It's just little things like that. That kind of thing is less of an issue on a console, because the console doesn't actually need to see the tree it's navigating to; you just tap the stick left and it goes. In addition, you need multiple actions to get anywhere anyway (stick left, down, down, down, accept), and so you're used to minor delays. At what point did I say all fps? This game is clearly designed for controllers, the slow movement + sprinting mechanic, the large iron sights sights, I'd even go as far as saying iron sights in general are best used in console games, but they do have their place in PC fps if used properly. Its an FPS designed for console. Its entirely different mechanically than a game like UT, Quake or CS. Compare how those games work to Halo, CoD etc They are very very different, the latter playing better with a controller in my opinion. Maybe its because I played a fair bit of CS before I moved on to SC2 but playing Borderlands 2 with a mouse and keyboard just felt wrong, it feels like it was designed for a controller, so I use a controller. Theres nothing wrong with that, its just the way the game was designed. If you don't pick up on that then don't use a controller, save yourself some money. And I never said people should get a controller, I said that if a game is designed for a controller I advice getting one as the UI problems, control issues should be non-existent. Just some common sense advice if you ask me. As a PC Gamer you have the best of both worlds with regards to controls. Not to mention platformers etc are infinitely better on a controller. I agree with you that the game was designed for a controller. The reason is that it is easier to go from controller -> mouse+keyboard rather than design for PC and try to adapt for controller. However, my point is that I would prefer the game if it was solely designed and released for the PC. My biggest faults with the game are due to the fact that it has been designed with controller accessibility. Most of the UI, and therefore gameplay in general, would be greatly improved with a PC-designed interface. Everything related to items/inventory management is garbage compared to what it could be. If you contrast Borderlands with Diablo for example, in Diablo it is very easy to roll your mouse over a bunch of items quickly to discard the junk and compare stats. In Borderlands, it takes a whole bunch of extra clicks which isn't just wasteful but really detrimental for this sort of game. As a result, it is tedious to collect and compare items, which is a core aspect of the game. The skill tree is another example of this though not nearly as serious. You cannot view the entire skill tree and quickly mouse over the different skills to see what they do. You can only do that one "section" at a time, which isn't helpful if you want to min+max/think about the entire picture. If you want to see the entire skill tree, you can't see what the skills do, which isn't helpful for the majority of players. The way that I do it is to load up the skill trees on the website, which is how it should be ingame. I still think BL2 is a good game but it could be a better game if it was only released for PC. Well, that's notwithstanding the fact that it probably wouldn't have been made if they didn't get a lot of their revenue from consoles.
If you actually use the keyboard and not just mouse only, most of those accessibility issues go away, except for the skill tree not being able to view everything and have descriptions open at the same time, though you can see descriptions from at least two trees at a time, not just one. But for comparing and dropping items it's really easy. While basic comparing(without using compare key) doesn't show your equipped weapon stats, it's really not a hassle to just hit e and select the equipped weapon who's stats you want it to show and then just mouse over the backpack weapons to see all the comparisons. The extra action of picking which weapon is necessary since you can equip more than one weapon at a time, as is the other extra action is hitting the (advanced) compare key. Nor is it a hassle to drop things, just mouse over the list and hit the drop button on the weapon, that's even easier than diablo. Those aren't "a whole bunch of extra clicks" or that detrimental or tedious, we should at least have enough apm to do that.
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I've noticed the buy/sell/inventory interface can be a bit buggy though. Especially when you involve the scroll wheel, which I happen to use a lot. Sometimes the selection can become decoupled from the mouse, which can lead to some weird stuff.
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I'm still not seeing this "it feels like it should be played with a controller" trash. It's an fps. Regardless of if it was made for a console or not the actual moving around and shooting part always feels smoother with a mouse. It's more accurate with a mouse. Same with Halo, quake, or any other fps that's ever been made and had a pc version.
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On September 21 2012 23:58 padfoota wrote:
I have the game.
I dont dare play it.
I cant stay up 3 nights in a row for gaming again T_T
Somebody kill me QQ
Just play the game. You'll still die but possibly with a smile.
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On September 22 2012 00:43 Infernal_dream wrote:
I'm still not seeing this "it feels like it should be played with a controller" trash. It's an fps. Regardless of if it was made for a console or not the actual moving around and shooting part always feels smoother with a mouse. It's more accurate with a mouse. Same with Halo, quake, or any other fps that's ever been made and had a pc version.
Yeah. I'm not quite understanding it. Yes, it's developed with the console in mind, but the game feels so much better on a mouse and keyboard. I might just be terrible with a controller in an FPS environment, but I couldn't see myself hitting some of the tiny crit points with any sort of accuracy on a controller.
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The game is totally fine and even preferable to me using mouse & keyboard. If anything, it's the clunky ass UI that is the problem. Scrolling through my inventory and selling shit is a complete pain in the ass for no good reason.
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Using mouse&keyboard and can't see any reason why I would want to use controller. Sniping robots in the eye for criticals is fun.
Found a Legendary Assault Rifle at lvl 4, lasted me lvls 4-14 so far.
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After using the keyboard and shortcuts for the clunky UI i finally can say: Damn worth the buy.
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Canada13389 Posts
I never played the first one, should I go and get the second game or first one first? It looks like a lot of fun.
Also, is it worth the money to get GotY on Steam or just standard borderlands? I think the price difference is 20 dollars O.O
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On September 22 2012 07:33 ZeromuS wrote:
I never played the first one, should I go and get the second game or first one first? It looks like a lot of fun.
Also, is it worth the money to get GotY on Steam or just standard borderlands? I think the price difference is 20 dollars O.O
I didn't play the first and I'm enjoying the fuck outta the second!
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On September 22 2012 07:33 ZeromuS wrote:
I never played the first one, should I go and get the second game or first one first? It looks like a lot of fun.
Also, is it worth the money to get GotY on Steam or just standard borderlands? I think the price difference is 20 dollars O.O
You don't have to play the first one, but if you are getting it definitely go GotY edition. It includes all 4 dlcs which really help round out some of the first games flaws(though it's still a ton of fun even with its flaws). I'm not even sure if the first one is worth it without those to be honest. There isn't even a bank storage in the base game, that came in a dlc, thankfully they included that in bl 2 by default now though.
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For people who are saying the game was clearly designed for consoles...can you give some examples?
Obviously the menu UI is totally console and is quite clunky on PC, but the actual gameplay feels absolutely fine.
Game is really fantastic IMO, having a lot of fun, the world is really stunning.
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EPT
