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On March 11 2012 20:00 paralleluniverse wrote:The game looks good. But having seen only a bit of it, I have 2 major complaints. The game has literally the ugliest UI and UI art I've ever seen. And this talent tree is so convoluted, it's worse than the TBC attunement flow chart that Blizzard put out as a joke. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/
You say convoluted, I say intricate. It doesn't really overlap, and making choice/planning things out the next couple of levels is actually like super entertaining. The thing that makes it awesome is that it basically means everything and anything can work if you really want it to.
... like literally anything.
EDIT: Also, anyone want to play a bit on the US server? I have lots of fun with this game, but I am a) a total noob and b) have no friends remotely interested except for the one I gave my friend invite to whose toaster can't actually run the game.
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On March 11 2012 20:23 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2012 20:00 paralleluniverse wrote:The game looks good. But having seen only a bit of it, I have 2 major complaints. The game has literally the ugliest UI and UI art I've ever seen. And this talent tree is so convoluted, it's worse than the TBC attunement flow chart that Blizzard put out as a joke. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/ You say convoluted, I say intricate. It doesn't really overlap, and making choice/planning things out the next couple of levels is actually like super entertaining. The thing that makes it awesome is that it basically means everything and anything can work if you really want it to. ... like literally anything. EDIT: Also, anyone want to play a bit on the US server? I have lots of fun with this game, but I am a) a total noob and b) have no friends remotely interested except for the one I gave my friend invite to whose toaster can't actually run the game.
Somehow I doubt it. It's just a more convoluted version of the WoW talent trees, i.e. there will likely be only 1 or 2 viable ways to spec optimally, then everyone will copy these cookie-cutter builds.
The WotLK talent tree has proven the case that more talents/skills/options doesn't equate to more real choices.
I also don't like the thousands of branches making you have to scroll left and right to see the tree. I wonder how they display that in game.
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I was able to play both PoE and D3 lately. In my opinion, D3 will roflstomp PoE after release. PoE have nice concepts, like mentioned earlier, FF7 materia system, and FF10 sphere grid. But compared to D3 beta, everything in this game looks chaotic and UI is only making it worst. Graphic is also one big flaw. It kinda fits in the whiners concept, that D3 have too many colors. So we have PoE with black, black and black color palette with litte grey and brown added sometimes. Skills, compared to D3 are boring, first 10 levels in D3 introduces soo much variety in the ways you can destroy stuff. I also noticed, that PoE community is mostly made of "HC" D2 gamers, that would like to play D2 port, rather then D3 - new game. And so PoE is that kind of port - you even land in the jungle in act 2.
While materia system looks cool, with leveling skills ect, I fear it actually brings nothing special, exept the need to "farm" XP for new skills.
As for skill tree, it will be extremely hard for them to avoid situation, when it will be 3-4 cookie cutter builds, or nothing.
Unless they plan to revamp UI and graphic, I am almost 100% sure, this game will perish soon after release (or open beta).
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Really, now. I didn't realize people dislike the graphics and ui so much. Personally I prefer both over d3 where everything is just pale shades of blue/greens and a random rainbow thrown in for trolling, I disagree that D3 has too many colors if anything they use too few everything looks the same, would say there is a lot more color usage in poe, at least in what has been shown of both games yet. Also I would compare POE a lot closer to Titan's Quest that a D2 port, it takes a few good ideas from it as well and many other ARPGs over the last 15years.
Also if you can get 3-4 cookie cutter builds for each class out of a single talent tree I would say you're doing an amazing job already, take wow/d2/gw for example there was 1 maybe, maybe 2 cookie cutter specs, 3-4 would have been a fucking blessing. So far in D3 sure you have a few flashy abilities but they all feel so generic and overlapping and from what's seen in the beta you could not even use a single one and still easily walk through the game and so few options to truly customize your champion.
While I do agree that xp on gems isn't my favorite idea, the gems and socket linking them self leading to a truly complex system allowing you to balance and customize your character and gear, plus it's still kind of nice to have something more engaging then right-clicking on a class trainer or just having them magically appear in your skill book.
Aside from all that, I'll obviously be playing both games at release and many others when they come out because they are each a new gaming experience to entertain me and I'm sure I prefer different things in each game over certain things in other games because if I didn't that would mean the games are all the same and who really wants that?
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Just got my key today, feels like I signed up for the beta years ago.. oh well 
Really excited, this will dial down the D3-cravings perfectly.
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On March 11 2012 20:00 paralleluniverse wrote:The game looks good. But having seen only a bit of it, I have 2 major complaints. The game has literally the ugliest UI and UI art I've ever seen. And this talent tree is so convoluted, it's worse than the TBC attunement flow chart that Blizzard put out as a joke. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/
Thankfully the interface is probably the easiest thing to alter and "fix" in a game, so I wouldn't worry. But yeah.. that talent tree is a mess.
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I keep trying to play with friends but they always end up dying ~40ish...
WTB friends that don't die pre-60 at least
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On March 11 2012 21:44 DnameIN wrote:
And so PoE is that kind of port - you even land in the jungle in act 2.
Unless they plan to revamp UI and graphic, I am almost 100% sure, this game will perish soon after release (or open beta).
What do you mean by you even land in the jungle in act 2. I'm sure the UI will be revamped and I really don't care if it is personally. It doesn't bother me when I'm playing and I've never heard anyone in game complain about it. I doubt the game will die IF the PvP is balanced and there are many many class options in PvP as clans can do say 3v3 wars, and so on. PvP is what a lot of people stay for and from what I've heard so far in Diablo3 they've fucked us on that one. At least PoE will be doing more than just the standard side-show PvP arena.
The skill-tree mat be redone to be less confusing and intimidating for the noobies as they complain about it often. I personally had no problem with it and I LOVE it. So many options and once you make a few characters you pretty much know where everything is. I'm not exactly sure on how they could fix it maybe adding something like search for X ability in Y area ie: X Life Y Red tree or Y currently available.
But I don't seem them supporting the game on micro-transactions anyways, I'm sure something will be done.
On a PvP note I would like them to add something like sieges... like a group of players invades while another group defends like 15v15 if possible. Or maybe even just some side games such as defending a castle from swarms of monsters that get stronger as time passes. Have boss waves and everything it'd be really fucking cool defending a place with all your friends.
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I don't understand the complaints about the passives either. For my first character I (inevitably) fucked it up and ended up not wanting to play that character any more. Then I found a build on their forum so I just followed that. It helped me understand some of the logic that players use when selecting things. For my third character I actually had a plan in mind before I started leveling, which I just followed, and it turned out to be kickass.
People scream and beg for customization options and criticize Diablo 3 for having too few. Then when a brave developer tries to deliver depth and complexity, people shy away and complain it's "convulted."
God damn it gaming public, you're ruining it for yourselves.
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On March 16 2012 04:38 beef42 wrote:
I don't understand the complaints about the passives either. For my first character I (inevitably) fucked it up and ended up not wanting to play that character any more. Then I found a build on their forum so I just followed that. It helped me understand some of the logic that players use when selecting things. For my third character I actually had a plan in mind before I started leveling, which I just followed, and it turned out to be kickass.
People scream and beg for customization options and criticize Diablo 3 for having too few. Then when a brave developer tries to deliver depth and complexity, people shy away and complain it's "convulted."
God damn it gaming public, you're ruining it for yourselves.
Yeah I don't get it either. My first character blew it died on Merviel but I tried again and actually had a plan on how to build my character and ever since I began planning them out I haven't lost one.(Except my joke Bow-Rauder that died to 2 unique bears +move speed +damage got nuked)
People just need to put a little thought into their character. I think most people are used to Diablo2 just google the best build for x class to do y action and your done! But in this game (so far) you have to put thought into it. Sure when the game ages like Diablo2 it will be fleshed out with the best builds being google-able but still just be creative. Not every class you make will get to chaos and survive but its damn fun trying. Heres a link to a guy thats made some really cool builds!
http://www.youtube.com/user/UristMcDwarfy
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D3 will be for casuals, morons, and people who like shiny things. Also people who have no other choice but to buy d3 if they want to play an ARPG with their friends.
PoE will be for the hardcore who enjoy the challenge of how d2 could have played out if not for all the duping and botting. Also people who cannot afford d3.
Advantages and disadvantages to both. D3 will be more well received, more popular, and overshadow PoE simply because it's blizzard. If GGG was making d3 and Blizzard PoE, I think you'd see the exact same arguments from people.
From what I've seen of d3 and what I've played of PoE, PoE seems to be a much more in depth game with a more classic diablo feel. If you want pretty colors an lights, tell blizzard to make a hello kitty or my little pony ARPG.
Either way, we're going to see a released d3 well before PoE, so I'd say to all the skeptics to hold off until at least we see PoE in open beta, they still have a lot of things they plan on changing
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On March 16 2012 08:34 Battleaxe wrote:
Either way, we're going to see a released d3 well before PoE, so I'd say to all the skeptics to hold off until at least we see PoE in open beta, they still have a lot of things they plan on changing
Well back closer to when I first heard of PoE I thought that PoE wouldn't gt to open beta, or at least wouldn't get released than when Diabo 3 does, but now I'm kinda unsure.
PoE will be pseudo-released in open beta (says the developers) considering that it's a free game, and the open beta planned isn't too far away.
The game has literally the ugliest UI and UI art I've ever seen. I find it strange that you would say that. You're talking about the new UI and not the placeholder one, right? SC2 has by far a much worse UI (outside of the game) to me. What's so bad about it?
Also if you can get 3-4 cookie cutter builds for each class out of a single talent tree I would say you're doing an amazing job already, take wow/d2/gw for example there was 1 maybe, maybe 2 cookie cutter specs I'd hugely disagree for GW. Even other games had more than1-2 common builds per class.
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On March 11 2012 21:44 DnameIN wrote:
I was able to play both PoE and D3 lately. In my opinion, D3 will roflstomp PoE after release.
Unless they plan to revamp UI and graphic, I am almost 100% sure, this game will perish soon after release (or open beta).
You're basing the success of a game based off graphics and UI? you don't think that's a bit ridiculous? Look at Planescape: Torment or Starcraft 2 or a whole bunch of games that have poor UIs and/or bad graphics. Starcraft 1 has crap graphics by today's standards but still it's hugely played.
The biggest draw PoE has over Diablo 3 is PvP. Diablo3 PvP is just arena, and it's quite limited. The developers even talk about how PvP is a very insignificant aspect of Diablo 3. PoE plans for open PvP, including FULL looting on death, and being able to join ANYONE's instance (no private instances).
Aside from that, PoE is FREE to play, which is a HUGE draw to so many people. Games don't need to be top-notch to get huge numbers of players when the game is free — take a look at Runescape, Entropia Universe (sorta like Second life, maybe not the best example), or a bunch of others. Even browser games like flash games get revenue from players paying for premium content.
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I agree that Diablo3 will be for casuals which isn't bad if they would've added stuff for the hardcore players. I'm looking at PvP. I love PvP I love everything about PvP which is why I played Runescape for years and private servers after they destroyed the game. Its pretty much un-playable for skilled PvPing now. Which lost Runescape a large amount of hardcore PvPers which were the ones giving them game the A TON of free advertising with PK videos. It basically had no limits. You want to PK from the start? Go for it. You beat all the quests and have all skills 99? Go PK. It was fun and you could make a fortune off of it.
What I'm getting at is that PvP is FUN. Grinding monsters for hours and hours is fun at first but it loses steam after awhile. The end game content for me and a lot of other players is PvP and the way that Diablo3 is handling it just ruins it for the hardcore players. It gives us nothing to look for, nothing to do when we end the game. Its worthless to have a character with max levels and max gear because of the reason: What next? What to do with this character? There has to be end game content, something for the hardcore players to do. Thats PvP for some. Personally I PvP from the start I don't wait till end game. Thats what I'm excited for in PoE.
I will PvP in Diablo3 but I feel its going to be lack-luster and I would rather play Bloodline Champions.
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PvP does not make the game hardcore. It only makes it more competitive. Many people don't like that. That does not make them a casual gamer.
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I never said PvP made it hardcore. I said it gives the hardcore players something to do when they've already maxed levels and beat the game many times. Competition is a good thing, games are to casual now-a-days due to players having to have their hands held through everything. I like a challenge, I feel accomplished when I beat a hard game. When I beat a easy game I'm just like well okay? I think the game I felt the best after beating it was Contra. That game took hard work to beat you just don't get that satisfaction anymore.
But isn't that kinda the defintion of 'casual gamer'? Just playing casualy they don't want a challenge or competition. So just not doing PvP makes you pretty casual. As for the most part its not a challenge. But OFCOURSE there are hardcore PvM players, Some handicap theirselves (No equipment runs) others just play the game over, and over, and over.
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There was too much trolling in my last post. I apologize for that.
I guess, this is just a difference in taste. Propably, it's because i'm not a PvP type guy.
I will check PoE on open beta, but since then, all my hopes rests in D3.
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I understand where you are coming from with not wanting PvP, but what most people seem to take out of it is that you MUST PvP in PoE which isn't even close to true. You hear tons of talk about PvP because thats what we PvPers care about the most. We don't want Diablo3 to be a PvP everywhere all the time kinda game, we just want it to not be "well you can go to this arena and PvP" we want to be able to PvP anywhere, with anyone and how we want to.
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I do not necessary see very much common ground between D3 and PoE. I see a lot of one vs the other threads and I really cannot see much point in it:
Diablo 3
- The monetizing models in Diablo 3 are heavier than standard, but designed around normal store-sale.
- The game is using full 3D engine graphically.
- The declared goal of the game is to focus on PvE.
Path of Exile
- The monetizing models in PoE are based on Free To Play. Very close to League of Legends ideas.
- The game is using semi 3D engine graphics.
- The declared goals of the game is to make customization of gameplay easy and make competitions easy and happening often.
As a Diablo-game Diablo 3 will be a very good Hack'n'Slash PvE-game. It is catering to the standard Hack'n'Slash community.
Path of Exile has some very ambitious goals about using a Hack'n'Slash as a competition-platform, It is catering to competitive players from a lot of different games, while at the same time picking up some of the Hack'n'Slash-community.
There is no doubt that D3 will vastly outnumber PoE at release. The difference is that through time D3 will loose a lot of players to new games coming out and people getting bored.
PoE is running a longer plan where they hope to increase number of players over time and to create a competitive platform for playing hack'n'slash multiplayer.
Edit: Please be awere that competitive I= PvP.
Ladder-races are based on getting through PvE content the fastest. PvP is only a subset of competition.
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A big draw of Diablo for me was always the story. How is the story in PoE? Also if anyone has an extra beta key I would kill for one. I think PoE and D3 will do well, but with the direction D3 has taken it probably won't stick around as long as PoE will. I love games that have a lot of options, whether or not they are optimal.
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