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On January 30 2013 05:56 Obsidian wrote:
Honestly, many of the design choices for PoE are rather pointless. Gems leveling up is completely arbitrary. There's little to no point in having gems level up independent of characters other than as a mechanism for removing them from access. They could just as easily been slaved to the character's stats and scaled appropriately, which would allow you to put that lvl 1 gem in and use it at full effectiveness on a lvl 90 character.
It has to do with balancing mana costs and str/dex/int requirements. It's an extra level of depth that's actually very welcome, imo.
Their barter system is interesting, don't get me wrong... but I can't begin to describe how many ways this will go wrong.
The best part is that people seem to be self-reliant on getting gear. I bet most of the population won't even be interested in trading with people they don't know.
Classes are completely arbitrary other than as starting points for passives. Passives and the trees are likewise all over the place balance wise. Some are good, some are crap, some are downright required. It's good that the passive tree helps reduce gear requirements, but it also causes it's own problems, not to mention that once again... there are 'builds'.
Check out the build of the week videos on grinding gears games youtube channels. You're not giving classes and the tree enough credit.
Honestly, that's one of the things I loved best about D3. The lack of need to conform to 'builds'. Granted, Inferno and various difficulties will make some abilities more desireable than others, and there is still some balance to be done, but by and large... people can play what they want, and change it accordingly. I don't have to 're-grind' a Sorcererss just to try a different build where in traditional D2 and PoE I'd basically have to start all over again to try something new.
That's the trade off. This is a game made for hardcore players, the lead dev has said it a million times. This way there's a lot more replayability .
My problem is that customization at least early-mid game is non-existant for the most part. You will play with what you get because you don't get much. You can't really start making good use of the support gems for quite awhile. I dislike having vital skills or combinations being a product of chance via drops or trade. If there was a vendor in which I may be able to pick up good skills once and a while, it would go a long way to improving my disposition regarding them.
As I said, it's a game designed for hardcore players. This is a problem that exists mainly for your first character. Later on with more currencies and gear in your stash, this problem lessens. But I agree, first time around you work with what you got.
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Hey, I was hoping you guyd could help me a bit with My Build. I've kinda been grapping the nodes that felt good and were near, but I'm not sure where I wanna go from here. I've mostly been preferring lightning arrow over split for AoE and want to build around that.
Now, should I go towards the Duelist skills picking up the bow and survival skills there while working towards Blood Magic(which most people seem to get), or am I better off going up toward Shadow for more elemental damage and sustain?
Also, how should I balance damage skills with survival skills? I don't really die now but I'm worried that might change drastically later one. Is my current build fine or should I go more one way over the other?
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oh man.. i didnt know playing a es build was so scary..
I'm actually interesting in hear how " the economy system can go wrong in so many ways"
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I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends.
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On January 30 2013 06:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends.
QFT. This ain't D3, you don't just stack crit/crit d on every char
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So I'm trying to tweak this double arc totem + double curse build... and the base nodes look like this:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgMAAuMHpRSwGjgabB8CKU8snCynLR82xTlSOjBEq0myTm1VrlgHWfNaK2vbbRl2EX6vghCPRo-mkFWboZ2uo_KnCKeErJi8N8AawbTB89DQ2CTfsOQi5OzsOPF299c=
the guy who made this build plays in SC though, and he's mentioned dying due to "carelessness" a bit - we run double arc totem + a crapton of minions to try to peel off yourself. The rest of his passive points tend to go into lightning damage and faster cast speed, with a huge amount of his points being invested into the Templar starting area of Elementalist -> Prestidigitation -> Celestial Walker. I'm trying to figure out if its' worth trying to boost survival on this char by instead diverting points into other nodes, like Divine Toughness (2 point investment + 1 for another 8%HP if I want up near the curse nodes), the 8% chaos resist point across, Body and Soul (3 point investment off the path toward double totem), possibly even sliding down from Deep Wisdom to grab the life/shield nodes around Arcane Focus. I'm just not sure if it's "worth it" though from a "it'll make a difference" point of view. Obviously I'll probably need some level of faster cast speed to offset the totem cast speed nerfs, but yeah...
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On January 30 2013 06:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends.
one tip to other rangers out there, don't get vaal pact on your way to blood magic, and don't even get blood magic until you're gear ready.
so many people rush to nodes without thinking.. do I really have the HP/LifeonHit/Leech to sustain this? And they end up being completely shitty or just dying. Specifically with Vaal Pact. I've seen so many just casually get vaal pact on their way to blood magic or just immediately after and without enough dps(leech/LoH) to sustain themselves their character is completely fucked and you have to waste respecs.
I'm not saying you did that Blitzkrieg0 just a general PSA.
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3rd DC while fighting Vaal.... give me a break.
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On January 30 2013 07:07 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends. one tip to other rangers out there, don't get vaal pact on your way to blood magic, and don't even get blood magic until you're gear ready. so many people rush to nodes without thinking.. do I really have the HP/LifeonHit/Leech to sustain this? And they end up being completely shitty or just dying. Specifically with Vaal Pact. I've seen so many just casually get vaal pact on their way to blood magic or just immediately after and without enough dps(leech/LoH) to sustain themselves their character is completely fucked and you have to waste respecs. I'm not saying you did that Blitzkrieg0 just a general PSA.
I'm debating if I'm strong enough to respec my mana points into blood magic/vaal pact right now :p Probably gonna wait until I find a thorn bow.
On January 30 2013 07:10 RuskiPanda wrote:
3rd DC while fighting Vaal.... give me a break.
I like to avoid playing around this hour for that very reason.
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sick game. loving it so far : )
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On January 30 2013 06:30 Vorenius wrote:Hey, I was hoping you guyd could help me a bit with My Build. I've kinda been grapping the nodes that felt good and were near, but I'm not sure where I wanna go from here. I've mostly been preferring lightning arrow over split for AoE and want to build around that. Now, should I go towards the Duelist skills picking up the bow and survival skills there while working towards Blood Magic(which most people seem to get), or am I better off going up toward Shadow for more elemental damage and sustain? Also, how should I balance damage skills with survival skills? I don't really die now but I'm worried that might change drastically later one. Is my current build fine or should I go more one way over the other?
45 points is a pretty good way into the game.
You need to look at your resistances at this point. -20 % resistance in cruel is ok to use gear for, while -60% resistance in merciless is, very rough. I am a bit surprised at you choosing both elemental damage and bow damage. That seems inconsistent which is never something you want in a build. That is 3 or 4 points you probably should consider reallocating. "Point Blank" and "Fury Bolt" seems like good offenses and "Alchemist" to really make the flasks good. Depending on how you want to play, "Acrobatics", "Mental Acuity", "Fitness" and others in the shadow part of the tree (life and resistance are conveniently on the way).
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Ahh, I'll just throw it out in the open.
Think we should organise a build contest. Winners get effects, skins or even ingame items( I'm willing to donate, perhaps other people too?)
Dunno, what do you guys think?
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On January 30 2013 07:15 Steveling wrote:
Ahh, I'll just throw it out in the open.
Think we should organise a build contest. Winners get effects, skins or even ingame items( I'm willing to donate, perhaps other people too?)
Dunno, what do you guys think?
Oh, wait for the stability under high load to set in and I am pretty sure GGG will run the events for us. This year, before open beta they had 9 separate events in total of which one was a 1 week race!
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On January 30 2013 06:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends. I don't really see the point of Vaal Pact on a bow ranger, tbh. Instant Flasks are really useful, and life on hit on your LA is already a huge amount of instant regen. If mobs are dangerous, you simply dance around more. You can even throw in chain for a 3x LoHit multiplier (which I find pretty broken). I might consider it when Diamond Flasks are back, or if they buff Amethyst Flasks.
Btw, evasion passives are terrible without Iron Reflexes. You'll go from about 50 to 52% with that +50%. It's pretty bad. I guess it's fine if you do a build that goes in the strength area and has very little Dex, or if you somehow skip the initial +48%, but diminishing return kicks in pretty hard at merciless.
But I agree on bow crits. There might be some crit build tailored specifically for the Lionheart's Glare unique auto-hit bow, but it's generally bad, and there's very little life in that area.
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On January 30 2013 05:56 Obsidian wrote:
Honestly, many of the design choices for PoE are rather pointless. Gems leveling up is completely arbitrary. There's little to no point in having gems level up independent of characters other than as a mechanism for removing them from access. They could just as easily been slaved to the character's stats and scaled appropriately, which would allow you to put that lvl 1 gem in and use it at full effectiveness on a lvl 90 character.
Their barter system is interesting, don't get me wrong... but I can't begin to describe how many ways this will go wrong.
Classes are completely arbitrary other than as starting points for passives. Passives and the trees are likewise all over the place balance wise. Some are good, some are crap, some are downright required. It's good that the passive tree helps reduce gear requirements, but it also causes it's own problems, not to mention that once again... there are 'builds'.
Honestly, that's one of the things I loved best about D3. The lack of need to conform to 'builds'. Granted, Inferno and various difficulties will make some abilities more desireable than others, and there is still some balance to be done, but by and large... people can play what they want, and change it accordingly. I don't have to 're-grind' a Sorcererss just to try a different build where in traditional D2 and PoE I'd basically have to start all over again to try something new.
Secondary to that is skill gems at all. I love the FF7 Materia-esq combination system with Support Gems. Likewise I can see the skills being required if only as a way to make it work, though the whole system throws gear choices around like a lucha libre wrestler...
My problem is that customization at least early-mid game is non-existant for the most part. You will play with what you get because you don't get much. You can't really start making good use of the support gems for quite awhile. I dislike having vital skills or combinations being a product of chance via drops or trade. If there was a vendor in which I may be able to pick up good skills once and a while, it would go a long way to improving my disposition regarding them.
I don't think leveling gems is arbitrary at all. There are a multitude of reasons why you wouldn't want to level a gem up when it is available to do so, the most popular being that you do not want the increased mana cost. In addition, it is a way of ensuring that a player is on top of their str/dex/int gain, if they want to use skills tied to that attribute.
Please do describe how you think the barter system will go wrong. I think it's a stroke of genius and eliminates a lot of the problems inherent to D3, such as reduced focus on finding or making good items yourself while providing a more interesting economy than "get gold, spend gold, get items."
The skill tree is so large that where you start on it is relatively important, so classes aren't arbitrary either. Because of where you start on the tree, a Templar Summoner is built very different than a Witch Summoner. And the last time I played D3, there most definitely were defined builds that were ideal for each class, and if you hoped to progress through Inferno without a massive gear advantage, you were relatively restricted to which abilities you could use. In addition, some runes were flat out useless or so situational that they would only be useful for one fight, which wasn't tough enough to warrant switching your build.
You don't have a WW Barb in D3, you have a Barb. There is no identity to that character, and there is little to no sense of progression and improvement, aside from the gear you purchase from the Auction House. That's fine if you enjoy this type of gameplay, but understand that many people enjoyed the original D2, where you could plan out a character, know what ideal items you would want, and end up with a masterpiece that could clear the content with ease, helping you plan new characters and pvp. The modern ARPG, including TL2 and D3, is very much a casual genre. It works for some and doesn't work for others.
If leveling a character in a game is "grinding," the gameplay is designed poorly. You shouldn't have to force yourself through early levels because the gameplay is so much more rewarding at higher levels. PoE is slow in early levels, to establish the fact that you are a weak exile, but quickly ramps up and by the end of the first difficulty you should be able to use your ideal playstyle while filling in passives, gear upgrades, and specialized skill/support gems as you come across them. If you have a Fire/Lightning Witch and want to play a Summoner Witch, why would you consider leveling the second Witch a "grind?" You either enjoy playing that character or not. If leveling is a grind, PvP and end-game maps will likely not be enjoyable either, and you are probably playing the wrong game.
I enjoy the "use whatever you can get" nature of the early game in PoE...taking down Hillock on your Witch in full plate armor, etc. Through drops and trading you can progress through the game to your ideal playstyle just fine.
I don't know, it sounds like the genre is just not for you. Don't get me wrong, there are many things that could be improved in PoE, most notably the mechanics (desynching, server stability, etc.) but in my opinion it is already easily better than TL2 and D3, and it is a free to play game that is still very much in a beta phase. The future is bright.
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On January 30 2013 07:23 Pwere wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends. I don't really see the point of Vaal Pact on a bow ranger, tbh. Instant Flasks are really useful, and life on hit on your LA is already a huge amount of instant regen. If mobs are dangerous, you simply dance around more. You can even throw in chain for a 3x LoHit multiplier (which I find pretty broken). I might consider it when Diamond Flasks are back, or if they buff Amethyst Flasks.
Does life on hit actually scale well enough now that they buffed it? I was using it for awhile, but it wasn't keeping me alive anymore. I'm still using fork though so it might just be that.
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On January 30 2013 06:30 Vorenius wrote:Hey, I was hoping you guyd could help me a bit with My Build. I've kinda been grapping the nodes that felt good and were near, but I'm not sure where I wanna go from here. I've mostly been preferring lightning arrow over split for AoE and want to build around that. Now, should I go towards the Duelist skills picking up the bow and survival skills there while working towards Blood Magic(which most people seem to get), or am I better off going up toward Shadow for more elemental damage and sustain? Also, how should I balance damage skills with survival skills? I don't really die now but I'm worried that might change drastically later one. Is my current build fine or should I go more one way over the other? Here's how I'd do it..
Crits are bad with a 5% base. You want more life, and the life flask nodes are great when leveling. I think it's fine to get both physical and elemental for a bow if you use LA. You always end up with a decent amount of base elemental damage, and you might pick up a bow with decent physical damage. You can't really specialize under level 60, unless you craft/have a lot of gear. But crafting midgame is generally bad.
The duelist area is pretty bad for bows. The best areas are Templar/Marauder, but you get there pretty late. If you check my old posts, I posted a build I use that's pretty versatile. The Shadow area is interesting too, but without diamond flasks, crit bow builds are underwhelming. As blitzkrieg said, heading for the middle is a good idea. You get Iron Grip and then Blood Magic right when you need it. It's kinda sad that all the life nodes in the ranger area are boring +8%, but you need to get about a lot of life for an evasion build, and you have to get it somewhere.On January 30 2013 07:28 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 07:23 Pwere wrote:On January 30 2013 06:59 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I like to head towards the middle of the tree personally. There's a ton of good nodes along the way for a Ranger (life, resists, you'll want vaal pact if you're going blood magic, reflexes since you're going evasion, etc etc).
You seem to have picked up quite a few crit nodes though. Bows have horrible base crit chance so I'd hesitate on committing there. A 60% increased chance to crit when you only have 5% crit chance (base on bows) brings you up to 8% chance to crit. Crit and bows aren't really friends. I don't really see the point of Vaal Pact on a bow ranger, tbh. Instant Flasks are really useful, and life on hit on your LA is already a huge amount of instant regen. If mobs are dangerous, you simply dance around more. You can even throw in chain for a 3x LoHit multiplier (which I find pretty broken). I might consider it when Diamond Flasks are back, or if they buff Amethyst Flasks. Does life on hit actually scale well enough now that they buffed it? I was using it for awhile, but it wasn't keeping me alive anymore. I'm still using fork though so it might just be that. I'm not sure how far it scales. But you need LMP + LA + Chain if you want to use it in smallish packs. Fork is amazing vs monkey packs and other craziness, but it just doesn't work in A3 it seems. But if you have blood magic, might as well make use of it. It will cost ~100 per cast, but then you get 36 times your LoHit...
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36 hits is definitely enough. I'll try to find another cheap one and try it out again.
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Are there any items that give you life leech for spells? I've only seen physical life leech so far
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EPT
