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I don’t disagree with you.
But PoE was way too fast… Every Monsterpack immediatly exploding as soon as you touch one due to Herald/Explody/Whatever while you just fly around isn’t fun longterm gameplay.
I had fun with my BV-Cold-Vortex pathfinder.
It cleared all maps with 10 exalts invested whiteout ever thinking about anything. It did the same with 40 exalts while barely being faster just now Mapbosses/Sirius9 and co. also pretty much just fell. With optimal gear (1XX exalts…) the clearspeed would still be nearly the same as with 10, but I could facetank sirus beams and kill him in 10 seconds.
Note: I played the «low dmg version » of the build…
It was fun for one leage, playing like this but longterm? No way. Stuff like this is plain bad for the game.
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On July 22 2021 22:51 Velr wrote:If we ignore the monster DMG issue for a sec. No, it wasn’t just top end builds that deleted everything. EVERY somewhat competent build deleted whites, blues and «non wtfrolled/league specific» yellow mobs. «Badish » builds just ran into problems against some high tier map bosses and the endgame delirium and bosses in general. The diffrence between a 500k-1mio. DPS build and a 2-3 mio+++ build wasn’t that big while general mapping. It just shows up in high delirium maps, deep delve and against endgame bosses (but most of these are pretty fair if you know them). Clearing maps fast as fuck is entirely possible with sub 1 mio. dps, brain afk killing Sirius/Guardians/max Conquerors and so on isn’t. If i would guess how this league turns out it will be the following: Players will still speedclear everything and then hit brick walls on yellow-redmap map bosses/metamoprhs/delirium/endgame stuff (+the occasional freak rares). Kinda how playing RF feels whiteout goodlike gear feels atm  .
This is very true. In Heist I made a super bad Ice Nova/Shock Nova EE build (just alternating between the two) I wanted to play since back in the day, with trash gear and I could still clear T16 reasonably well - except for the map bosses and some wtfrares. I think my average hit damage was 100k or even less? Since then if I look at DPS numbers I only think about "will this be enough for map bosses/will this be enough for endgame bosses to not feel like a chore. DPS numbers don't seem to matter for mapping anymore and a huge part of that is because of how easy it is nowadays to get a 6L. I don't plan with anything else anymore. Back in the day I would plan for 5L max, playing 4L until mid-maps often...
Does RF feel that bad on a 6L btw.? What do you consider godlike gear? I had RF on my fire dot char in a 4L and it still deleted white mobs by running through them. Not my main clear skill though. My gear was decent and I had cluster jewels set up (expensive) but not godlike and I would assume you get more damage out of another 2 gems compared to the cluster jewels? Also other cheap gear/nodes for better aoe scaling?
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On July 23 2021 00:15 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2021 22:51 Velr wrote:If we ignore the monster DMG issue for a sec. No, it wasn’t just top end builds that deleted everything. EVERY somewhat competent build deleted whites, blues and «non wtfrolled/league specific» yellow mobs. «Badish » builds just ran into problems against some high tier map bosses and the endgame delirium and bosses in general. The diffrence between a 500k-1mio. DPS build and a 2-3 mio+++ build wasn’t that big while general mapping. It just shows up in high delirium maps, deep delve and against endgame bosses (but most of these are pretty fair if you know them). Clearing maps fast as fuck is entirely possible with sub 1 mio. dps, brain afk killing Sirius/Guardians/max Conquerors and so on isn’t. If i would guess how this league turns out it will be the following: Players will still speedclear everything and then hit brick walls on yellow-redmap map bosses/metamoprhs/delirium/endgame stuff (+the occasional freak rares). Kinda how playing RF feels whiteout goodlike gear feels atm . This is very true. In Heist I made a super bad Ice Nova/Shock Nova EE build (just alternating between the two) I wanted to play since back in the day, with trash gear and I could still clear T16 reasonably well - except for the map bosses and some wtfrares. I think my average hit damage was 100k or even less? Since then if I look at DPS numbers I only think about "will this be enough for map bosses/will this be enough for endgame bosses to not feel like a chore. DPS numbers don't seem to matter for mapping anymore and a huge part of that is because of how easy it is nowadays to get a 6L. I don't plan with anything else anymore. Back in the day I would plan for 5L max, playing 4L until mid-maps often... Does RF feel that bad on a 6L btw.? What do you consider godlike gear? I had RF on my fire dot char in a 4L and it still deleted white mobs by running through them. Not my main clear skill though. My gear was decent and I had cluster jewels set up (expensive) but not godlike and I would assume you get more damage out of another 2 gems compared to the cluster jewels? Also other cheap gear/nodes for better aoe scaling?
Damage over time should be nerfed on cluster jewels now, with damage over multipler removed in non notable.
Edit: this patch seems that weapon will be the focus on damage with higher base damage and effectiveness for many attack skills. Not sure but think they made some kind of change that made multiple over time better on weapons.
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effectiveness is better across the board, so more scaling comes from gear than from supports or gem alone.
mainly hits the traditional "starter" builds like DoT, spells, slams (seismic cry kill)
I'm pretty sure now that Forbidden Rite will work, because if it doesn't the damage will be far less than Dark Pact's. With it, it will have higher damage, but probably worse clear and higher self damage to the totems. Will test it in Standard first though
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I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh.
So I went with what could possibly become the meta, a Trap build. However.... Yeah I love to make my own builds so with the huge buff to Seismic Trap (yep I pretty much didn't realize it exists) I really want to give it a try. Numbers look alright in PoB. Due to the rather hefty cooldown I would alternate between Seismic Trap & Bladefall Trap, let's see how it works in pratice.
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On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh.
I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. 
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Is Bear trap with increased duration worth doing for bosses?
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On July 23 2021 05:28 Sapaio wrote:
Is Bear trap with increased duration worth doing for bosses?
For the extra damage? Yes.
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On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build.
Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration.
I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts.
Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well.
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On July 23 2021 05:43 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration. I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts. Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well.
I was talking about Storm Rain not Seismic Trap, sorry.
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On July 23 2021 05:48 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 05:43 HolydaKing wrote:On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration. I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts. Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well. I was talking about Storm Rain not Seismic Trap, sorry.
Storm Rain has no Duration tag though. ^^
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On July 23 2021 05:49 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 05:48 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 05:43 HolydaKing wrote:On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration. I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts. Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well. I was talking about Storm Rain not Seismic Trap, sorry. Storm Rain has no Duration tag though. ^^
booooo boring...
But you are right of course. I thought we could finally see a non-meme use of those lower duration nodes on the passive tree.
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On July 23 2021 05:52 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 05:49 HolydaKing wrote:On July 23 2021 05:48 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 05:43 HolydaKing wrote:On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration. I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts. Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well. I was talking about Storm Rain not Seismic Trap, sorry. Storm Rain has no Duration tag though. ^^ booooo boring... But you are right of course. I thought we could finally see a non-meme use of those lower duration nodes on the passive tree.
You know, they are really, really good for Storm Call. But yeah... that gem also requires a lot gear investment since it's merely decent.
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First league back after over a year break, feel like I've forgotten everything and so overwhelmed looking at builds and everything.
Lost the name of all my characters I've had since Alpha/Beta. Totally forgot that was even a thing.
See you all on HC tomorrow
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On July 23 2021 05:43 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration. I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts. Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well.
If we a going that way anomalous bear trap with enhance support, increase duration and efficacy. Would be optimal.
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On July 23 2021 06:04 NotSorry wrote:
First league back after over a year break, feel like I've forgotten everything and so overwhelmed looking at builds and everything.
Lost the name of all my characters I've had since Alpha/Beta. Totally forgot that was even a thing.
See you all on HC tomorrow
Good luck with that! Stopped HC a year ago due to random deaths and this league looks much worse for that!
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yeah, there's only a few HC holdouts like Gunde. I still play HC occasionally, but this league im pretty busy, will barely be there for the start.
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Think i might try the new slam totem support stuff as starter.
Although I feel it might very well have to default back to warchief totems considering how warchief totem builds work -
before you`d get to 3 warchief totems (that kinda buff themselves with their own MORE multi they provide), and another two protector totems for the AS buff. All these ancestral totem buffs are then scaled by chieftain ascendancy and panopticum, as you get 150% ancestral buffs with these two. So the 18% more multi from warchief becomes 45%, and the 20% more AS from protector becomes 50%.
So when you go with the new support and a slam, that one kinda has to do enough damage to compensate losing one of the buffs, right?
Or is there a (usable) setup to use 3 different types of totems?
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If you do more attack with the new support. You will make more of them. So have hard time seeing them work with other totems.
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On July 23 2021 07:30 Sapaio wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2021 05:43 HolydaKing wrote:On July 23 2021 05:23 Miragee wrote:On July 23 2021 04:11 HolydaKing wrote:
I think I got my first build for the league, I completely changed my mind since I have too much doubt that Storm Rain can work without huge investment. I mean, how could it? Attack bow skills you can scale so much with +1 proj bow/quiver, high dps bow, crit on gear etc. So while I'm sure it'll be better than Lightning Arrow for bossing, I expect it to be at most a factor of 2, which works but eh. I have looked at the skill and it looks like you can quite heavily scale it with reduced duration? Would be a first I think. And gl with your trap build. Huh? I thought increased duration is what you want. I don't understand why either, though. Since the amount of waves seems fixed on the gem. Would be really terrible if reduced duration is better, since the CD is too high and Advanced Traps, which seems like a must use gem, increases duration. I tried to find out what duration scaling actually does though, but the skill has barely ever been used so yeah I might have to try it out before the league starts. Bear Trap is good for bosses, yeah, and inc duration (+efficacy if you got the gem space) should be good here as well. If we a going that way anomalous bear trap with enhance support, increase duration and efficacy. Would be optimal.
Anomalous Bear Trap + Divergent Advanced Traps + Increased Duration + Lvl 4 Enhance would be optimal, sure, but yeah lol who would do that. I think in my build I have space for two support gems though, I'll pick Advanced Traps & Increased Duration. Enhance, like Empower and Enlighten, will be really expensive this league. A little less than these two, but still a lot surely.
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EPT
