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On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3  but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do !
Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it.
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On March 11 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3 but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do ! Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it.
If you're in trade league you can also buy white sockets, but just the forced R to B or whatever harvests that were adds makes getting 6 off color pretty easy.
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On March 11 2021 02:37 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote:On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3 but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do ! Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it. If you're in trade league you can also buy white sockets, but just the forced R to B or whatever harvests that were adds makes getting 6 off color pretty easy.
You mean white sockets via harvest? Or another method? But yeah, I figured the easiest strat in my cast would be to force 3 sockets with the bench and do the other 3 via harvest. Not sure how common they are because I never payed attention to them before but I guess I will find out soon.
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On March 11 2021 04:30 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 02:37 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 11 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote:On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3 but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do ! Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it. If you're in trade league you can also buy white sockets, but just the forced R to B or whatever harvests that were adds makes getting 6 off color pretty easy. You mean white sockets via harvest? Or another method? But yeah, I figured the easiest strat in my cast would be to force 3 sockets with the bench and do the other 3 via harvest. Not sure how common they are because I never payed attention to them before but I guess I will find out soon.
You can also get white sockets from Research Vorici as a betrayal reward. Honestly no idea if that or harvest is faster/cheaper.
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On March 11 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 04:30 Miragee wrote:On March 11 2021 02:37 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 11 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote:On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3 but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do ! Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it. If you're in trade league you can also buy white sockets, but just the forced R to B or whatever harvests that were adds makes getting 6 off color pretty easy. You mean white sockets via harvest? Or another method? But yeah, I figured the easiest strat in my cast would be to force 3 sockets with the bench and do the other 3 via harvest. Not sure how common they are because I never payed attention to them before but I guess I will find out soon. You can also get white sockets from Research Vorici as a betrayal reward. Honestly no idea if that or harvest is faster/cheaper.
Vorici only gives up to 3 though and doesn't work beyond that because it only works on pieces with no white sockets? Or can you force 3 sockets via bench and turn the rest white?
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On March 11 2021 06:12 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 11 2021 04:30 Miragee wrote:On March 11 2021 02:37 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 11 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote:On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3 but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do ! Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it. If you're in trade league you can also buy white sockets, but just the forced R to B or whatever harvests that were adds makes getting 6 off color pretty easy. You mean white sockets via harvest? Or another method? But yeah, I figured the easiest strat in my cast would be to force 3 sockets with the bench and do the other 3 via harvest. Not sure how common they are because I never payed attention to them before but I guess I will find out soon. You can also get white sockets from Research Vorici as a betrayal reward. Honestly no idea if that or harvest is faster/cheaper. Vorici only gives up to 3 though and doesn't work beyond that because it only works on pieces with no white sockets? Or can you force 3 sockets via bench and turn the rest white?
I think your first major decision point is do I want white sockets?
If you roll say 3 off color and 3 on color that you don't want you would be absurdly lucky to hit the 3 on colors you want to get rid of with the white sockets. You would still need to harvest to finish it after the Vorici with jeweler bench crafting, but it should be trivial to setup Vorici to get the 3 whites at least compared to farming harvest for sockets.
If you don't want white sockets harvest the whole way with the basic Reforge the colour of a non-red socket on an item, turning it Red (or whatever color). Playing SSF so haven't dealt with TFT Discord, but I suspect you could have your item fully colored how you want in an hour easily.
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On March 11 2021 06:29 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2021 06:12 Miragee wrote:On March 11 2021 04:57 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 11 2021 04:30 Miragee wrote:On March 11 2021 02:37 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On March 11 2021 01:19 Miragee wrote:On March 10 2021 23:28 FaCE_1 wrote:Anyone trying for the gauntlet this week-end ? I'll play in it just for fun. Last time I wasn't able to finish act3 but hope to be better this time. I know a bit more what to do ! Maybe? I'm not sure. I'm not much of a fan of HC atm. but for these small events it's still great. However, I'm also still going strong in Ritual. I burdened myself with some more Harvest farming because I'm an idiot. Crafted a pretty cool chest piece (for my standards), 6-linked it and then realised I crafted on the wrong base for the sockets I need because I was too fixated to do all the other steps correctly... Now I have fix six sockets via bench + harvest to get 6 off-colours. Brilliant. Well, on the bright side there is a way to fix the item. Good for dunces like myself. Years ago there would only be one option: sell it. If you're in trade league you can also buy white sockets, but just the forced R to B or whatever harvests that were adds makes getting 6 off color pretty easy. You mean white sockets via harvest? Or another method? But yeah, I figured the easiest strat in my cast would be to force 3 sockets with the bench and do the other 3 via harvest. Not sure how common they are because I never payed attention to them before but I guess I will find out soon. You can also get white sockets from Research Vorici as a betrayal reward. Honestly no idea if that or harvest is faster/cheaper. Vorici only gives up to 3 though and doesn't work beyond that because it only works on pieces with no white sockets? Or can you force 3 sockets via bench and turn the rest white? I think your first major decision point is do I want white sockets? If you roll say 3 off color and 3 on color that you don't want you would be absurdly lucky to hit the 3 on colors you want to get rid of with the white sockets. You would still need to harvest to finish it after the Vorici, but it should be trivial to setup Vorici to get the 3 whites at least compared to farming harvest for white sockets. If you don't want white sockets harvest the whole way with the basic Reforge the colour of a non-red socket on an item, turning it Red (or whatever color). Playing SSF so haven't dealt with TFT Discord, but I suspect you could have your item fully colored how you want in an hour easily.
Hmyeah, as I said, I need 6 off-colours, which would mean 6 whites so I'm not aiming for whites but the specific colours in harvest. I still haven't bothered with TFT yet but maybe I should. I ran Haewark Hamlet with Zanas when I got them (with the hidden Atlas passives) for 2 hours now and saw a grand total of zero harvests. -.-' Sometimes you just get unlucky.
Not sure I like that. The specific add was pretty cool imho but problematic for perfect item crafting. The idea I heard on multiple podcasts and liked best was to add a maximum of harvest crafts to an item - just like with the crafting bench. With that, casuals are still able to target 1-2 cool modifiers onto an item but perfect items wouldn't be possible or need a 4 perfect modifier base to start with. I mean, what they are aiming at is pretty good but still, if I want to add chaos res for example and hit a low tier I will be stuck with it.
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You definitely don't want 6 white sockets on a non-perfect item. The Vorici Betrayal farm is deterministic to setup and gives you flexibility on your later harvest crafting. If you're going to self farm it I think that has to be optimal personally, but you're on trade league so just buy your harvests from TFT discord if you want truly optimal.
Realized my brain short circuited on harvest this whole conversation. With Vorici you want to get 3 whites and then do jeweler bench crafting to finish it. Not harvest.
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On March 11 2021 07:53 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
You definitely don't want 6 white sockets on a non-perfect item. The Vorici Betrayal farm is deterministic to setup and gives you flexibility on your later harvest crafting. If you're going to self farm it I think that has to be optimal personally, but you're on trade league so just buy your harvests from TFT discord if you want truly optimal.
Realized my brain short circuited on harvest this whole conversation. With Vorici you want to get 3 whites and then do jeweler bench crafting to finish it. Not harvest.
I mean, I don't optimise, I don't min-max time investment, profit or anything. That's not why I play trade. I play trade because I like to experiment with builds and buy build enablers etc. SSF would straight up deny me a lot of what I want to do. In trade I can still play almost like in SSF but trade away some stuff I don't need and get some stuff I need but can't drop. The whole "it's not worth it to run this and that because you can make much more profit by doing it a certain different way" doesn't bother me at all. So yeah, I generally don't mind farming Harvest a bit, especially when I have multiple projects atm. It just gets annoying if you don't get any spawns. When I'm starting to get annoyed it's a clear sign I should probably start trading, lol.
Btw. I know that wasn't what you were saying. Just felt like I want to put that out there. Originally I was just annoyed at myself for messing up the craft in the dumbest way possible and needed to put in some unnecessary work or currency. Probably just needed to vent my frustration...Anyways, I appreciate your tips
//And yeah, item is already six linked. Unlinking it would be silly I think. At first I thought there was no option to fix it.
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How much value does Harvest have when you can only craft on non-influenced bases? All the good mods require influence and have pathetic weighting. I don't like that their solution is to make it impossible to get good gear again for most people.
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Yeah most of the appeal of harvest and the deterministic crafting for me was being able to get specific mods PERIOD, even if the item they were on ended up being lackluster as far as life/es/resists. Explosion chest, regen on block, gem levels, etc. I get why crafting perfect items and doing really complicated chains of targeted slams/annuls to have an ideal mod in every slot is really strong in the scope of PoE. But on the flip side, basically accepting I won't be able to get a phys explosion chest next league on SSF does actually affect my build decisions and stuff. Just exceedingly rare even if you dump a majority of your self-gathered currency into a single slot or even a single affix. Hard to balance though, I get it.
I like the idea of only one harvest slam per mod. Make it look blue or something, like how fractured mods stand out
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For me the changes don't sound too terrible, will still be able to target add mods on non influnced gear. And with more harvest more often as well. Less quantity of terrible crafts is welcome as well.
It sucks for people that were crafting a lot with influenced gear, but for me I only did that on an explosiion chest and on shaper shieds for selling them. So I'm not really affected by that too much. Non influenced gear is plenty good for everything in the game imo.
What I will miss though is the annulment crafts and slightly less so the divine orb crafts, did use those quite a few times.
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I am a bit sad that they will be heavily reducing the number of total crafts period. yes, it could be annoying and time consuming to stall your progression when you get a big harvest, but a lot of good items could be made by spamming low crafts, like reforge spamming cluster jewels, rings, etc. I don't like them hitting the low/mid level harvest crafting which isn't that insane
I do think obliterating annuls / add on influence is a good idea though. High end harvest was so overpowered and so overcentralizing that it needed to be cut off at the knees.
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On March 11 2021 19:35 HolydaKing wrote:
For me the changes don't sound too terrible, will still be able to target add mods on non influnced gear. And with more harvest more often as well. Less quantity of terrible crafts is welcome as well.
It sucks for people that were crafting a lot with influenced gear, but for me I only did that on an explosiion chest and on shaper shieds for selling them. So I'm not really affected by that too much. Non influenced gear is plenty good for everything in the game imo.
What I will miss though is the annulment crafts and slightly less so the divine orb crafts, did use those quite a few times.
I agree with Blitzkrieg here. I mean, what do you want to add then? Resistances are pretty much the only thing you can deterministically craft with the changes on most pieces and even then you can also hit the lowest tier and be doomed. With certain presets you can add life onto a chest for example but if you don't hit T3+, you are just better off using the crafting bench because the annul is gone. I'm sure there is more examples but in most cases it will be so expensive and with such a high risk that it is just not worth it for the average player. Honestly, the longer I think about these changes the more I come to the conclusion I will just ignore Harvest in the future (unless I mess up my sockets again, lol).
Don't get me wrong, I think they need to address harvest. But taking away all deterministic crafting basically takes away its purpose. What they need to do imho is to hit the high end, not the casual player that would be happy to add a single influence mod to an item. Having 6 influence mods on an item is just silly, especially with the elevated mods now. But there is literally no point crafting anything onto non-influence pieces if you are not guaranteed to hit T1. You are gambling with an entry fee of 1 exalt for an item which you can probably buy off of the trading post for less than 1 ex...
So yeah, there are multiple ways to address harvest, I just think they are going overboard and destroy it.
On March 11 2021 19:52 EchelonTee wrote:
I do think obliterating annuls / add on influence is a good idea though. High end harvest was so overpowered and so overcentralizing that it needed to be cut off at the knees.
The wording is a bit strange though. To me it sounds like you can't hit an influence mod with "augment cold" for example, either, unless the item dropped with the exact mod you are trying to target?
//ok forget it, I got it now. They are going to keep "augment influence mod", which will be the only way to add an influence mod onto an item. Which is just silly because now the richest players could still just buy and augment influence modifiers until they hit the perfect 6 they want (in conjunction with beast crafting and the crafting bench). It's a huge gamble and becomes way more expensive but they can still do it. I feel like they are hitting the wrong place...
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https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/m2aryf/mathil_on_harvest_changes/
I'm not as aggressive about it but I like matihl's take
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if reforge item with X mod still works on influenced items, then harvest is still really strong. I printed currency with that.
if reforge item keeping Suffixs/Prefixs still works, then harvest is still very very useful for non influenced items
there's still all the QoL stuff like Res swapping, Fragment swapping, infused zana. these are just the ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure you can still do some shenanigans with remove non add.
Harvest is simply insanely busted in its current form. I feel like it limits future design, and harms all other parts of the game. What other suggestions do people have to address it? Making the item non-tradeable = a non starter.
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I love how reddit always overreact to nerfs and manifestos as if it was the apocalypsis, and the game is dead and unplayabe.
I'm fine with the nerfs, harvest was too powerful and softcore was becoming too discord reliant.
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I'm fine with them even as an SSF player. It's a really tricky thing to fine tune right, and I'm sure they'll keep iterating. The amount of backlash this is getting is honestly pretty shocking, considering a big chunk of the same community spent a lot of time complaining about surfing discords and all that extra bullshit they had to do because of harvest now, even if it meant more OP items. Reactions like this are always kneejerk.
Does it suck that it will be harder to get something like an explody chest in SSF now? Sure, duh. But it was that hard before in leagues without harvest, and the game was still fun lol. Just tailor your builds and expectations accordingly. That's what PoE is all about anyway.
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On March 11 2021 23:04 EchelonTee wrote:https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/m2aryf/mathil_on_harvest_changes/I'm not as aggressive about it but I like matihl's take -- if reforge item with X mod still works on influenced items, then harvest is still really strong. I printed currency with that. if reforge item keeping Suffixs/Prefixs still works, then harvest is still very very useful for non influenced items there's still all the QoL stuff like Res swapping, Fragment swapping, infused zana. these are just the ideas off the top of my head. I'm sure you can still do some shenanigans with remove non add. Harvest is simply insanely busted in its current form. I feel like it limits future design, and harms all other parts of the game. What other suggestions do people have to address it? Making the item non-tradeable = a non starter.
To your reforge stuff: That's just me but that's not how I want to use Harvest or would enjoy it. I don't care if I can print currency with it. It's basically just an improved chaos spam, which I despise. You can't really use it to craft your own stuff because hitting exactly what you need is, on average, way more expensive than just buying it. So unless you get insanely lucky you just craft shit and sell it and buy what you need. So basically like everything else in the game.
But yeah, well tbh the worst thing about it is the teasing. Here is what you can have and now we take it away. It's just human to be bitchy about when stuff is taken away from you, even though we are just going back to how it was before harvest, which wasn't bad. Also, I'm not a fan of gambling. So getting some sort of deterministic crafting was nice to me once I figured out how to use it. And I thought that was the point? I don't get the point of another system that is basically essence/fossil crafting. To me that just means I go back to no crafting at all again. Yes, it was way too overpowered but there are better ways to fix that. Also, they already had the league as an experiment, so they should have known of the problems it would cause. If they implemented it the way they are going to change it to now I believe the outcry would have been much smaller.
Here's an excerpt from the manifesto: "Why would I use a regular Exalted/Divine/Annul Orb when I can get one through Harvest that has a deterministic result?" Well, I think that applies to almost everyone on trade without Harvest as well. Why would I use and Annul or Exalt on an item, ever, unless I'm super rich and can craft until I hit what I want? I certainly never considered that before Harvest... It's not an exciting thought to me. In my mind it's an 0,0001% chance to be "oh cool, it worked..." and a 99,9999% chance to feel terrible afterwards.
Generally I agree with you and Mathil though. It's definitely not the end of the world. It just feels bad right now.
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Wow some people are really mad lol. Changes seem more than reasonable.
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EPT
