On August 10 2012 04:07 Pwere wrote: Life and energy shield are the only two defensive stats that have no diminishing return. Evasion has ridiculous double-dip diminishing return, and armor has standard diminishing return
What do you mean by "double-dip diminishing return"? Neither evasion or armor gives any sort of real diminishing return — increasing armor or evasion gives linear returns in protection — not exponential and not inverse.
I was under the impression this was the case, based on the following formulas, which are apparently correct, from what I read/heard: Armor mitigation % = Armor / (Armor + 12 * damage received) % to Hit = Accuracy / ( Accuracy + (Evasion / 4)^0.8 )
Let's try it: Going from 1000 to 2000 armor vs a 100 damage hit means you receive 37 damage instead of 55. So, it seems like each 1k armor gives you about +80%EHP vs a 100 damage hit. (0 armor =100% EHP, 1k = 180%, 2k = 260%) I guess it is pretty linear.
For Evasion: An attacker with 100 accuracy vs x Evasion: 400 Evasion : 71% to hit, or 41% more EHP 800: 59%, or 69% more EHP 1600: 45%, or 122% more EHP In this case, there is diminishing return, and if you multiply all values by 10, it gets worse for evasion, because of the nasty ^0.8. I was, however, counting one too many layer of diminishing return.
If you consider that Evasion now offers additional protection vs Critical Strike, it might even out. So, I guess I was wrong technically. Elemental Resist and Block, however, offer increasing return, so relative to them, it changes very little.
As for Life % Regen, I guess only str builds should have it, but there's also a limit of 20% max life leeched per second, which might very well apply to claw builds and other crazy leech builds (there's that unique amulet with 8% life leech...). That's not relevant to this argument however, so let's ignore it.
TLDR: Armor is linear, Evasion has diminishing return, might be balanced by resistance to critical strikes. Resist/Block have increased return. Life % has increased return if you also have % regen.
cleared the first difficulty last night. It surprised me how the last dungeon is actually fun instead of frustrating like D3. I wish if there were a quest there though... kinda awkward just have to go there by myself. I guess those gona come when act3 got implemented.
Just found out about the tip to get the +20 all stat amulet -_-... also there are a lot of advance tip on what to keep, hwat to buy in shop that would give you the most profit. This makes me miss a basic crafting system of most RPG but PoE. They should implement one :-/
Aura is freaking imbalance @_@.... but my problem right now is my aura reserve half of my mana pool which make the combination of flickerstrike + frenzy drain out my mana pool really fast. I dont wana put points in int either bc i will be removing all the energy shield+armor later on for the Acrobatic shit. This mana problem is killing me right now since most of my mana pot is increase recovery amount but reduce charge return rate which make it terrible combining with my aura.
Question: the bandit quest in last act2, is it better to get flat HP or get resist? I choose HP simply bc i dont know how EHP is calculated in this game. Also what would happen if you kill all 3 bandits? do you get anything?
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Not disagreeing as such, but it is not impossible that the extra hp is actually worth it. Have taken it myself, I know a lot of tanky marauders take it and several of the best players in ladder races take it to stay alive after having spend all their skillpoints on damage-increase.
I have heard of a few players liking the resistance gain, but they are few and far between.
I do not think anyone is having a use for the mana-bonus. It has been speculated that certain builds with eldritch battery can gain an advantage from it, but I haven't seen the proof.
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
i think you are exaggerating. from my experience so far, you don't need to be maximizing hp to "withstand merciless difficulty" and neither are specific builds required to measure up to survivability without getting the permanent hp boosts. i have died around 40+ times up to level 72 so far and most of the time its because i was hesitant of pushing the potion button or just accidentally pressed F1, my build is also all over the place and my gear is mediocre. (i play a lightning strike duelist with tempest shield + hatred + anger + clarity, it makes absolutely no sense but its fun like hell)
so guys, just play the game and have fun experimenting.
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
i think you are exaggerating. from my experience so far, you don't need to be maximizing hp to "withstand merciless difficulty" and neither are specific builds required to measure up to survivability without getting the permanent hp boosts. i have died around 40+ times up to level 72 so far and most of the time its because i was hesitant of pushing the potion button or just accidentally pressed F1, my build is also all over the place and my gear is mediocre. (i play a lightning strike duelist with tempest shield + hatred + anger + clarity, it makes absolutely no sense but its fun like hell)
so guys, just play the game and have fun experimenting.
So you died 40+ times going up to 72. I've gone up all the way to 80ish without dying once in HC. Having those HP rewards is necessary, especially in HC. Default is abit different and gives you more leeway, but even bare minimal survivability is going to hurt you badly late game.
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
i think you are exaggerating. from my experience so far, you don't need to be maximizing hp to "withstand merciless difficulty" and neither are specific builds required to measure up to survivability without getting the permanent hp boosts. i have died around 40+ times up to level 72 so far and most of the time its because i was hesitant of pushing the potion button or just accidentally pressed F1, my build is also all over the place and my gear is mediocre. (i play a lightning strike duelist with tempest shield + hatred + anger + clarity, it makes absolutely no sense but its fun like hell)
so guys, just play the game and have fun experimenting.
So you died 40+ times going up to 72. I've gone up all the way to 80ish without dying once in HC. Having those HP rewards is necessary, especially in HC. Default is abit different and gives you more leeway, but even bare minimal survivability is going to hurt you badly late game.
That's funny because the highest level in HC right now is level 80....http://www.pathofexile.com/ladder/index/league/Hardcore
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
i think you are exaggerating. from my experience so far, you don't need to be maximizing hp to "withstand merciless difficulty" and neither are specific builds required to measure up to survivability without getting the permanent hp boosts. i have died around 40+ times up to level 72 so far and most of the time its because i was hesitant of pushing the potion button or just accidentally pressed F1, my build is also all over the place and my gear is mediocre. (i play a lightning strike duelist with tempest shield + hatred + anger + clarity, it makes absolutely no sense but its fun like hell)
so guys, just play the game and have fun experimenting.
So you died 40+ times going up to 72. I've gone up all the way to 80ish without dying once in HC. Having those HP rewards is necessary, especially in HC. Default is abit different and gives you more leeway, but even bare minimal survivability is going to hurt you badly late game.
That's funny because the highest level in HC right now is level 80....http://www.pathofexile.com/ladder/index/league/Hardcore
Wipes bro, wipes. Look at HC legacy. Even then, that's not even the oldest ladder; that's just the ladder before this previous season as far as I know. They routinely did tons of .8x wipes (which is well before many people played) and many people would just delete the character since no one plays HC legacy anyways (many of us who play Path of Exile regularly have many characters, easily hitting the max slots). I know this because I know of many people who've hit 75+ and just simply deleted due to lack of space (before it was unlimited at a certain point; it is set at 24 now as far as I know). When you take part in multiple leagues, tournaments, etc. it builds up, espec when you are running multiple silly builds in both default/hc/2 week race/weekend race/etc.
Just off of the Witch tree you can play like 6-8 different ways that are viable end game, and many of them play dramatically different from one another. When you start looking at other class trees, you find out that you can hit the character cap real fast, especially if you're using some to mule some currency/items since you only have 4 stash tabs.
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
i think you are exaggerating. from my experience so far, you don't need to be maximizing hp to "withstand merciless difficulty" and neither are specific builds required to measure up to survivability without getting the permanent hp boosts. i have died around 40+ times up to level 72 so far and most of the time its because i was hesitant of pushing the potion button or just accidentally pressed F1, my build is also all over the place and my gear is mediocre. (i play a lightning strike duelist with tempest shield + hatred + anger + clarity, it makes absolutely no sense but its fun like hell)
so guys, just play the game and have fun experimenting.
So you died 40+ times going up to 72. I've gone up all the way to 80ish without dying once in HC. Having those HP rewards is necessary, especially in HC. Default is abit different and gives you more leeway, but even bare minimal survivability is going to hurt you badly late game.
That's funny because the highest level in HC right now is level 80....http://www.pathofexile.com/ladder/index/league/Hardcore
Wipes bro, wipes. Look at HC legacy. Even then, that's not even the oldest ladder; that's just the ladder before this previous season as far as I know. They routinely did tons of .8x wipes (which is well before many people played) and many people would just delete the character since no one plays HC legacy anyways (many of us who play Path of Exile regularly have many characters, easily hitting the max slots). I know this because I know of many people who've hit 75+ and just simply deleted due to lack of space (before it was unlimited at a certain point; it is set at 24 now as far as I know). When you take part in multiple leagues, tournaments, etc. it builds up, espec when you are running multiple silly builds in both default/hc/2 week race/weekend race/etc.
Just off of the Witch tree you can play like 6-8 different ways that are viable end game, and many of them play dramatically different from one another. When you start looking at other class trees, you find out that you can hit the character cap real fast, especially if you're using some to mule some currency/items since you only have 4 stash tabs.
I got in to beta over a year ago, and was a Templar with the Ice Nova build. I don't think that there has even been a wipe since then, or just only 1. Did you have an OP build like Ice Nova?
On August 12 2012 04:47 Judicator wrote: Free skill point >>> anything they offer you.
Wrong. HP is better than the free skill point unless you're running CI or you're running a specific build that will actually have enough HP to withstand Merciless difficulty.
This is especially true in hardcore, where survivability is everything. In normal, even the HP is attractive because you lose a huge chunk of exp if you die. People don't realize that the HP quest reward is also improved by any HP passives you may have. So an 8% life node will increase it big time, and it stacks over how many life nodes you may have.
i think you are exaggerating. from my experience so far, you don't need to be maximizing hp to "withstand merciless difficulty" and neither are specific builds required to measure up to survivability without getting the permanent hp boosts. i have died around 40+ times up to level 72 so far and most of the time its because i was hesitant of pushing the potion button or just accidentally pressed F1, my build is also all over the place and my gear is mediocre. (i play a lightning strike duelist with tempest shield + hatred + anger + clarity, it makes absolutely no sense but its fun like hell)
so guys, just play the game and have fun experimenting.
So you died 40+ times going up to 72. I've gone up all the way to 80ish without dying once in HC. Having those HP rewards is necessary, especially in HC. Default is abit different and gives you more leeway, but even bare minimal survivability is going to hurt you badly late game.
That's funny because the highest level in HC right now is level 80....http://www.pathofexile.com/ladder/index/league/Hardcore
Wipes bro, wipes. Look at HC legacy. Even then, that's not even the oldest ladder; that's just the ladder before this previous season as far as I know. They routinely did tons of .8x wipes (which is well before many people played) and many people would just delete the character since no one plays HC legacy anyways (many of us who play Path of Exile regularly have many characters, easily hitting the max slots). I know this because I know of many people who've hit 75+ and just simply deleted due to lack of space (before it was unlimited at a certain point; it is set at 24 now as far as I know). When you take part in multiple leagues, tournaments, etc. it builds up, espec when you are running multiple silly builds in both default/hc/2 week race/weekend race/etc.
Just off of the Witch tree you can play like 6-8 different ways that are viable end game, and many of them play dramatically different from one another. When you start looking at other class trees, you find out that you can hit the character cap real fast, especially if you're using some to mule some currency/items since you only have 4 stash tabs.
I got in to beta over a year ago, and was a Templar with the Ice Nova build. I don't think that there has even been a wipe since then, or just only 1. Did you have an OP build like Ice Nova?
Oh, the old fight between overpowered ice nova and overpowered lightning nova. Good times, sir! After that, we had the knockback rangers, templars had their time with avatar of fire and marauders with life leech/regen. Then it was the elemental damage on litterally every build. Oh the history of strong builds goes on even today, though it is less settled at the moment. There has always been strong builds and while ice witches of olden times were dealing very nasty damage and slowing/freezing at the same time, they were rather easy to kill and monster sync issues were worse than what we see at the moment.
There is no need to discuss ability to survive in hardcore and default since they have different requirements all together. Dying in default is an experience in the game, while dying in hardcore is another restart of a character. It is different builds and strategies permeating the worlds. In default some suicides has been a popular way of playing in some situations to avoid using town portal or in a scheme to level up gems. In hardcore that is not possible. The economies are different though hardercore is somewhat catching up.
Apparently torchlight 2's multiplayer isnt secure (like d2 open b.net), is it the same for this game? Blizzard completely failed at stopping cheating/hacking in all 3 diablo games so I can't be optimistic about this being different. I don't mind bots but duped items are bullshit
On August 13 2012 02:49 Assault_1 wrote: Apparently torchlight 2's multiplayer isnt secure (like d2 open b.net), is it the same for this game? Blizzard completely failed at stopping cheating/hacking in all 3 diablo games so I can't be optimistic about this being different. I don't mind bots but duped items are bullshit
I have seen duping happening once and they rolled back all characters caught cheating to before the exploit was made official, while hotfixing it within days. "secure" is impossible to reach, but I do not think that there is any significant third party modding or client modding going around.
On August 13 2012 02:49 Assault_1 wrote: Apparently torchlight 2's multiplayer isnt secure (like d2 open b.net), is it the same for this game? Blizzard completely failed at stopping cheating/hacking in all 3 diablo games so I can't be optimistic about this being different. I don't mind bots but duped items are bullshit
I have seen duping happening once and they rolled back all characters caught cheating to before the exploit was made official, while hotfixing it within days. "secure" is impossible to reach, but I do not think that there is any significant third party modding or client modding going around.
I think he more means that in Torchlight you can edit local files and edit anything you want (at least that is d2open). This isn't possible in Path of Exile.
Chris worked in computer security before GGG so he knows what he's doing with regards to security. Which is a pity in some ways, because no game mods will be simple to do because of the security system. Ah well
Okay guys i was considering buying one of those closed beta keys for PoE but not sure if its worth it for me. How does this game compare to D2 and D3 for reference? I enjoyed D2 more then D3, and apart from that I have very little experience in the rpg genre. Any advice? thx in advance.
EPT
