On July 20 2017 09:50 incinerate_ wrote: In other news the trailer is out: www.youtube.com
Release Date is August 4th.
Ufffff..... that makes me super skeptical. Not the trailer, but the release date. Personally in Beta to me A8 felt rushed compared to A5-7, I'm really hoping that's not how it's going to continue.
Regarding Unique Flasks, I'm a bit afraid they'll hit them too hard as is tradition but on the other hand it's about time.
As for Occultist, Wicked Ward is OPOP. CA/ED CI Occultist is definitely in my personal top #5 3.0 starters still. Simply because it can do so much content safely and at a reasonable pace - from shitty map mods to Uber Lab farming whereas other builds are sometimes much more limited in scope.
Balance is already way off. There are a handful of tier 1 builds versus before there were a ton of tier 1 builds. Of the next beta patch doesn't fix/buff/changes alot of things we're gonna have an awful patch on our hands.
Eh, in that regard we had awful patches since years. I'm more worried about boss balance, zones not being 100% reused (warehouse *cough*) and things like that. It's not like GGG has a great balance record but this one *seems* better than most imo.
I dunno if you've been playing the beta, but because of the boss hp some builds are basically non-viable.
Do you define viable as killing t16 bosses or something?
On July 20 2017 09:50 incinerate_ wrote: In other news the trailer is out: www.youtube.com
Release Date is August 4th.
Ufffff..... that makes me super skeptical. Not the trailer, but the release date. Personally in Beta to me A8 felt rushed compared to A5-7, I'm really hoping that's not how it's going to continue.
Regarding Unique Flasks, I'm a bit afraid they'll hit them too hard as is tradition but on the other hand it's about time.
As for Occultist, Wicked Ward is OPOP. CA/ED CI Occultist is definitely in my personal top #5 3.0 starters still. Simply because it can do so much content safely and at a reasonable pace - from shitty map mods to Uber Lab farming whereas other builds are sometimes much more limited in scope.
Balance is already way off. There are a handful of tier 1 builds versus before there were a ton of tier 1 builds. Of the next beta patch doesn't fix/buff/changes alot of things we're gonna have an awful patch on our hands.
Eh, in that regard we had awful patches since years. I'm more worried about boss balance, zones not being 100% reused (warehouse *cough*) and things like that. It's not like GGG has a great balance record but this one *seems* better than most imo.
I dunno if you've been playing the beta, but because of the boss hp some builds are basically non-viable.
Do you define viable as killing t16 bosses or something?
No I'm talking about being able to unlock atlas progression without needing crazy amounts of gear to kill the bosses and dying a truckload of times as viable. Sometimes I wonder if you guys actually are playing the same game I am, because last time I checked my cycloner took fucking a marathon to kill Temple boss with life mod on it with a god damn Disfavour.
What exactly do you define as a crazy amount of gear? I really don't understand how you define viable, because if atlas progression is it then blade vortex is the strongest skill in the game.
On the other hand, I've killed shaped with a 4ex budget comfortably on spectral throw inquisitor, I've killed shaper on what was probably around about 60ex of gear at the time on my howa raider, and both were pretty similar in kill speed.
Explosive arrow can be a pain in the ass to kill bosses, especially ignite immune ones, but it can be done for the cheap (not in beta I guess).
I just don't understand how you've come to the conclusions you've come to, they run counter intuitive to the game that I understand, and I'm 99% sure I understand it better then a huge amount of people.
And really, atlas progression currently is easy as hell up to about t15 or so. Unless the build you've chosen to play is dumpster tier.
I actually don't believe you that killing a t9 with a disfavour was that hard. If you're seriously struggling to kill yellow bosses with 30 ex of gear then you have some serious flaws in understanding.
On July 20 2017 23:03 bo1b wrote: What exactly do you define as a crazy amount of gear? I really don't understand how you define viable, because if atlas progression is it then blade vortex is the strongest skill in the game.
On the other hand, I've killed shaped with a 4ex budget comfortably on spectral throw inquisitor, I've killed shaper on what was probably around about 60ex of gear at the time on my howa raider, and both were pretty similar in kill speed.
Explosive arrow can be a pain in the ass to kill bosses, especially ignite immune ones, but it can be done for the cheap (not in beta I guess).
I just don't understand how you've come to the conclusions you've come to, they run counter intuitive to the game that I understand, and I'm 99% sure I understand it better then a huge amount of people.
And really, atlas progression currently is easy as hell up to about t15 or so. Unless the build you've chosen to play is dumpster tier.
I actually don't believe you that killing a t9 with a disfavour was that hard. If you're seriously struggling to kill yellow bosses with 30 ex of gear then you have some serious flaws in understanding.
I'm talking about in beta.
Where the boss values are DOUBLED in most cases. That makes it significantly more dangerous for a ton of builds, and the chances of dying are astronomically higher because you have more opportunities to screw up or get clipped by some random nonsense.
When you account for the fact that you can also get monster life mods on your map too now, yes, it takes ages compared to what it once took to kill bosses.
Yeh, I'm playing on beta. A boss taking 5 seconds instead of 2 is seriously not that big of a deal. That's why I asked if it was t16s, because they have a large enough health pool to actually notice it, a t9 boss though? Were you above level 70? I just don't understand how you had issues with it. Temple boss is a pain in the ass for sure, but with a disfavour?
Yeah cause Hoose in our TL beta guild is level 81-83, and he's doing up to t9-10 very comfortably with just a 5L Marohi doing a Slayer cyclone last time I check. So I'm kinda sceptical if the issue lies in your build if you have trouble with temple boss (t9?) with a Disfavor.
On July 19 2017 13:53 bo1b wrote: I think you're underestimating the strength of mom and trickster, and how many builds that opens up. Ele buzz saw is stupid strong as well on beta, and scion is finally viable again. It wouldn't take too much to bring other skills into contention and have a huge amount of options available
MoM is really strong, the real problem is what spell are you going to use, because there's not a whole lot left. You've got RF/SRS/Firestorm and uh, a handful of other spells.
Ele Buzz saw is ok. It's not that good. It's about as good as it was in 2.6
What viable options as Scion? Every other class still does what the Scion does but better.
One example I keep running into is for Crit builds. Scion Assassin is good enough to remove the gem in most scenarios and you can get great goodies on top. Scion Pathfinder (combined with nodes) allows for 100% immunity to status ailments. Scion Raider gets you free Frenzy/Onslaught.
In quite a few cases I'd argue it's definitely a better option than Assassin, Pathfinder/Raider is a bit of a different beast. As for what bo1b said though, my bet is on MoM Trickster being a big deal. Kinda curious what Ele buzzsaw builds he referred to though. :3
On top of what you mentioned is EK nova untouched? That'd be another bullshit OP thing you can roll with. RF/ED for bossing can also likely be a thing again, just better. And don't forget the changes to affixes that should allow e.g. bow chars to push higher life pools again.
Berserker VP anything is also pretty dumb to be honest, it was just overshadowed by CI builds.
To add to this I just PoB a 3.0 Scion ED (Occultist/Trickster) and CI with ZO. In endgame I will have 2500+ ES/s regeneration with 10k ES if I killed recently with DoT which is only way the build does kill. Yea you can do pure Occultist but you lose the massive Scion Trickster buff to ES regeneration you can get now. Edit: and that is without adding in the life/energy regen ED gives. and without life regen lab mods on boots.
Except Occultist still comes out on top in the end. On kill effects are not reliable versus bosses, and the Occultist ends up clearing faster and doing more damage, while ending up tankier.
I don't think he does. He will have a bit more max ES and Wicked Ward is not as reliable in some fights where you get hit all the time. Vile Bastion has same problem Scion Trickster does with Vile Bastion being a weaker version while Scion Occultist gets a flat 1% ES regen that is always active. Pure Occultist reduces enemy chaos res by 5% more but Scion Trickster gets 30% damage increase when not on max ES which will be the case in vs boss battles. Scion also gets more stat boosts (+60 Int turns into a lot of ES as well) and more passive points which kind of make them equal in max ES if Scion wants to put those extra points into more ES.
No. Do the PoB. Occultist is tanker and does more damage. Profane Bloom also means way faster clear speed. It's not even a contest.
With the way resist works 5% more chaos res is flat out way better than 30% damage.
The resist calculation is
dmg = (1-Resistance)*dmg
Every single pt of resistance that gets dropped means a MASSIVE increase. That's why something like even a +1 max res makes a MASSIVE difference in the amount of damage you take. Dropping 5 resist is WAY better than 30% damage increased.
Ok, I ran the same gear and skill tree Scion I made but as a Occultist. Yea I got more max ES (400 more) and a bit more damage (2000 more dot). Scion version still has some advantages. You just need to curse enemies to have them receive more damage, they don't need to be nearby (how much is radius of this nearby? ) Wicked Ward still needs you to not take damage for a while, while you are avoiding damage you are not doing damage. Scion gets a flat 1% regen buff. With Scion you can always have something like Writhing Jar to kickstart your Trickster buffs while Occultist will only give you 1% ES regen when you kill those two worms. Profane Bloom is useful but not really needed in 3.0 where Contagion now will get a AoE buff and be useful again. And with trickster you will never have mana problems.
Only real advantage I can see in 3.0 is that Occultist can go CI earlier with Wicked Ward while with Scion I might need to wait for my Beast Fur Shawl first.
On July 20 2017 21:33 Velr wrote: The lab was and ever will be a failure. Basically everything about it stinks to high heavens.
The Trials are annoying as hell. The Traps are a mechanic many people hate, especially if "trapmazes" span multiple screens. I have a friend that i actually have to push thru it every time, he won't do it alone. All else he is pretty much fearless, but for some reason Traps are diffrent for him. Izaro is badly tuned compared to everything else on his Level and his mechanics are strange and whiteout "investigating" online you don't have a snowballs chance in hell to figure them out... Let alone doing it in HC. +It is pretty much mandatory.
It would probably be ok whiteout the ascendancy behind it.
Yo, some people really, really love Lab. Me for example. :3
You just gotta embrace it. It's super chill in Beta though so you might actually like it now, or at least hate it less.
On July 20 2017 23:03 bo1b wrote: What exactly do you define as a crazy amount of gear? I really don't understand how you define viable, because if atlas progression is it then blade vortex is the strongest skill in the game.
On the other hand, I've killed shaped with a 4ex budget comfortably on spectral throw inquisitor, I've killed shaper on what was probably around about 60ex of gear at the time on my howa raider, and both were pretty similar in kill speed.
Explosive arrow can be a pain in the ass to kill bosses, especially ignite immune ones, but it can be done for the cheap (not in beta I guess).
I just don't understand how you've come to the conclusions you've come to, they run counter intuitive to the game that I understand, and I'm 99% sure I understand it better then a huge amount of people.
And really, atlas progression currently is easy as hell up to about t15 or so. Unless the build you've chosen to play is dumpster tier.
I actually don't believe you that killing a t9 with a disfavour was that hard. If you're seriously struggling to kill yellow bosses with 30 ex of gear then you have some serious flaws in understanding.
I'm talking about in beta.
Where the boss values are DOUBLED in most cases. That makes it significantly more dangerous for a ton of builds, and the chances of dying are astronomically higher because you have more opportunities to screw up or get clipped by some random nonsense.
When you account for the fact that you can also get monster life mods on your map too now, yes, it takes ages compared to what it once took to kill bosses.
I didn't push maps in beta *but* 100% increased life on bosses doesn't seem that terrible compared to how quickly most of them die right now. If fights take 10s instead of 5s we maybe have to engage with content a little bit again.
On July 19 2017 13:53 bo1b wrote: I think you're underestimating the strength of mom and trickster, and how many builds that opens up. Ele buzz saw is stupid strong as well on beta, and scion is finally viable again. It wouldn't take too much to bring other skills into contention and have a huge amount of options available
MoM is really strong, the real problem is what spell are you going to use, because there's not a whole lot left. You've got RF/SRS/Firestorm and uh, a handful of other spells.
Ele Buzz saw is ok. It's not that good. It's about as good as it was in 2.6
What viable options as Scion? Every other class still does what the Scion does but better.
One example I keep running into is for Crit builds. Scion Assassin is good enough to remove the gem in most scenarios and you can get great goodies on top. Scion Pathfinder (combined with nodes) allows for 100% immunity to status ailments. Scion Raider gets you free Frenzy/Onslaught.
In quite a few cases I'd argue it's definitely a better option than Assassin, Pathfinder/Raider is a bit of a different beast. As for what bo1b said though, my bet is on MoM Trickster being a big deal. Kinda curious what Ele buzzsaw builds he referred to though. :3
On top of what you mentioned is EK nova untouched? That'd be another bullshit OP thing you can roll with. RF/ED for bossing can also likely be a thing again, just better. And don't forget the changes to affixes that should allow e.g. bow chars to push higher life pools again.
Berserker VP anything is also pretty dumb to be honest, it was just overshadowed by CI builds.
To add to this I just PoB a 3.0 Scion ED (Occultist/Trickster) and CI with ZO. In endgame I will have 2500+ ES/s regeneration with 10k ES if I killed recently with DoT which is only way the build does kill. Yea you can do pure Occultist but you lose the massive Scion Trickster buff to ES regeneration you can get now. Edit: and that is without adding in the life/energy regen ED gives. and without life regen lab mods on boots.
Except Occultist still comes out on top in the end. On kill effects are not reliable versus bosses, and the Occultist ends up clearing faster and doing more damage, while ending up tankier.
I don't think he does. He will have a bit more max ES and Wicked Ward is not as reliable in some fights where you get hit all the time. Vile Bastion has same problem Scion Trickster does with Vile Bastion being a weaker version while Scion Occultist gets a flat 1% ES regen that is always active. Pure Occultist reduces enemy chaos res by 5% more but Scion Trickster gets 30% damage increase when not on max ES which will be the case in vs boss battles. Scion also gets more stat boosts (+60 Int turns into a lot of ES as well) and more passive points which kind of make them equal in max ES if Scion wants to put those extra points into more ES.
No. Do the PoB. Occultist is tanker and does more damage. Profane Bloom also means way faster clear speed. It's not even a contest.
With the way resist works 5% more chaos res is flat out way better than 30% damage.
The resist calculation is
dmg = (1-Resistance)*dmg
Every single pt of resistance that gets dropped means a MASSIVE increase. That's why something like even a +1 max res makes a MASSIVE difference in the amount of damage you take. Dropping 5 resist is WAY better than 30% damage increased.
Ok, I ran the same gear and skill tree Scion I made but as a Occultist. Yea I got more max ES (400 more) and a bit more damage (2000 more dot). Scion version still has some advantages. You just need to curse enemies to have them receive more damage, they don't need to be nearby (how much is radius of this nearby? ) Wicked Ward still needs you to not take damage for a while, while you are avoiding damage you are not doing damage. Scion gets a flat 1% regen buff. With Scion you can always have something like Writhing Jar to kickstart your Trickster buffs while Occultist will only give you 1% ES regen when you kill those two worms. Profane Bloom is useful but not really needed in 3.0 where Contagion now will get a AoE buff and be useful again. And with trickster you will never have mana problems.
Only real advantage I can see in 3.0 is that Occultist can go CI earlier with Wicked Ward while with Scion I might need to wait for my Beast Fur Shawl first.
You're vastly underestimating how insane Wicked Ward and Vile Bastion are defensively. Notably Wicked Ward doesn't stop your regen at full ES (basically creating 2-3s of invulnerability) and can be buffed with e.g. Soul Strike while Vile Bastion effectively makes you immune to damage while speeding from pack to pack.
Sure that's the HC perspective speaking but with VP gone, Occultist is pretty much the Queen of CI just because of these things. Also not to mention Labfarming is extremely smooth, safe and fast on Occultists, just as a cherry on top. CA/ED specifically is going to do great in 3.0.
On July 21 2017 00:52 r.Evo wrote: I didn't push maps in beta *but* 100% increased life on bosses doesn't seem that terrible compared to how quickly most of them die right now. If fights take 10s instead of 5s we maybe have to engage with content a little bit again.
From what I've seen (playing up to red maps in beta, and watching streams), it's a huge deal if you're playing a build where flasks (e.g., Vinktar leech) make the difference between being able to sustain through the boss' damage and not being able to do so. This is because unless you're insanely overgeared, the boss life changes can easily make the difference between "can kill this boss during my flask uptime" and "boss has too much health, I run out of flasks and die once my leech is gone".
If you're not playing such a build, it's like you say, a noticeable slowdown in kill times but not really a qualitatively different experience.
On July 19 2017 13:53 bo1b wrote: I think you're underestimating the strength of mom and trickster, and how many builds that opens up. Ele buzz saw is stupid strong as well on beta, and scion is finally viable again. It wouldn't take too much to bring other skills into contention and have a huge amount of options available
MoM is really strong, the real problem is what spell are you going to use, because there's not a whole lot left. You've got RF/SRS/Firestorm and uh, a handful of other spells.
Ele Buzz saw is ok. It's not that good. It's about as good as it was in 2.6
What viable options as Scion? Every other class still does what the Scion does but better.
One example I keep running into is for Crit builds. Scion Assassin is good enough to remove the gem in most scenarios and you can get great goodies on top. Scion Pathfinder (combined with nodes) allows for 100% immunity to status ailments. Scion Raider gets you free Frenzy/Onslaught.
In quite a few cases I'd argue it's definitely a better option than Assassin, Pathfinder/Raider is a bit of a different beast. As for what bo1b said though, my bet is on MoM Trickster being a big deal. Kinda curious what Ele buzzsaw builds he referred to though. :3
On top of what you mentioned is EK nova untouched? That'd be another bullshit OP thing you can roll with. RF/ED for bossing can also likely be a thing again, just better. And don't forget the changes to affixes that should allow e.g. bow chars to push higher life pools again.
Berserker VP anything is also pretty dumb to be honest, it was just overshadowed by CI builds.
To add to this I just PoB a 3.0 Scion ED (Occultist/Trickster) and CI with ZO. In endgame I will have 2500+ ES/s regeneration with 10k ES if I killed recently with DoT which is only way the build does kill. Yea you can do pure Occultist but you lose the massive Scion Trickster buff to ES regeneration you can get now. Edit: and that is without adding in the life/energy regen ED gives. and without life regen lab mods on boots.
Except Occultist still comes out on top in the end. On kill effects are not reliable versus bosses, and the Occultist ends up clearing faster and doing more damage, while ending up tankier.
I don't think he does. He will have a bit more max ES and Wicked Ward is not as reliable in some fights where you get hit all the time. Vile Bastion has same problem Scion Trickster does with Vile Bastion being a weaker version while Scion Occultist gets a flat 1% ES regen that is always active. Pure Occultist reduces enemy chaos res by 5% more but Scion Trickster gets 30% damage increase when not on max ES which will be the case in vs boss battles. Scion also gets more stat boosts (+60 Int turns into a lot of ES as well) and more passive points which kind of make them equal in max ES if Scion wants to put those extra points into more ES.
No. Do the PoB. Occultist is tanker and does more damage. Profane Bloom also means way faster clear speed. It's not even a contest.
With the way resist works 5% more chaos res is flat out way better than 30% damage.
The resist calculation is
dmg = (1-Resistance)*dmg
Every single pt of resistance that gets dropped means a MASSIVE increase. That's why something like even a +1 max res makes a MASSIVE difference in the amount of damage you take. Dropping 5 resist is WAY better than 30% damage increased.
Ok, I ran the same gear and skill tree Scion I made but as a Occultist. Yea I got more max ES (400 more) and a bit more damage (2000 more dot). Scion version still has some advantages. You just need to curse enemies to have them receive more damage, they don't need to be nearby (how much is radius of this nearby? ) Wicked Ward still needs you to not take damage for a while, while you are avoiding damage you are not doing damage. Scion gets a flat 1% regen buff. With Scion you can always have something like Writhing Jar to kickstart your Trickster buffs while Occultist will only give you 1% ES regen when you kill those two worms. Profane Bloom is useful but not really needed in 3.0 where Contagion now will get a AoE buff and be useful again. And with trickster you will never have mana problems.
Only real advantage I can see in 3.0 is that Occultist can go CI earlier with Wicked Ward while with Scion I might need to wait for my Beast Fur Shawl first.
You're vastly underestimating how insane Wicked Ward and Vile Bastion are defensively. Notably Wicked Ward doesn't stop your regen at full ES (basically creating 2-3s of invulnerability) and can be buffed with e.g. Soul Strike while Vile Bastion effectively makes you immune to damage while speeding from pack to pack.
Sure that's the HC perspective speaking but with VP gone, Occultist is pretty much the Queen of CI just because of these things. Also not to mention Labfarming is extremely smooth, safe and fast on Occultists, just as a cherry on top. CA/ED specifically is going to do great in 3.0.
Both builds are good vs packs. Scion Trickster has 50% ES regen while speeding from pack to pack which ends up as more. What matters is how this plays vs bosses. Those that can damage you will not let your wicked ward activate. Yes you can use a bow and Soul Strike but why when a +3 staff gives you a massive damage boost and 20% block which ends as even more leech. Scion does not need Soul Strike and can use that staff or that chaos unique scepter and a high ES shield.
On July 19 2017 13:53 bo1b wrote: I think you're underestimating the strength of mom and trickster, and how many builds that opens up. Ele buzz saw is stupid strong as well on beta, and scion is finally viable again. It wouldn't take too much to bring other skills into contention and have a huge amount of options available
MoM is really strong, the real problem is what spell are you going to use, because there's not a whole lot left. You've got RF/SRS/Firestorm and uh, a handful of other spells.
Ele Buzz saw is ok. It's not that good. It's about as good as it was in 2.6
What viable options as Scion? Every other class still does what the Scion does but better.
One example I keep running into is for Crit builds. Scion Assassin is good enough to remove the gem in most scenarios and you can get great goodies on top. Scion Pathfinder (combined with nodes) allows for 100% immunity to status ailments. Scion Raider gets you free Frenzy/Onslaught.
In quite a few cases I'd argue it's definitely a better option than Assassin, Pathfinder/Raider is a bit of a different beast. As for what bo1b said though, my bet is on MoM Trickster being a big deal. Kinda curious what Ele buzzsaw builds he referred to though. :3
On top of what you mentioned is EK nova untouched? That'd be another bullshit OP thing you can roll with. RF/ED for bossing can also likely be a thing again, just better. And don't forget the changes to affixes that should allow e.g. bow chars to push higher life pools again.
Berserker VP anything is also pretty dumb to be honest, it was just overshadowed by CI builds.
To add to this I just PoB a 3.0 Scion ED (Occultist/Trickster) and CI with ZO. In endgame I will have 2500+ ES/s regeneration with 10k ES if I killed recently with DoT which is only way the build does kill. Yea you can do pure Occultist but you lose the massive Scion Trickster buff to ES regeneration you can get now. Edit: and that is without adding in the life/energy regen ED gives. and without life regen lab mods on boots.
Except Occultist still comes out on top in the end. On kill effects are not reliable versus bosses, and the Occultist ends up clearing faster and doing more damage, while ending up tankier.
I don't think he does. He will have a bit more max ES and Wicked Ward is not as reliable in some fights where you get hit all the time. Vile Bastion has same problem Scion Trickster does with Vile Bastion being a weaker version while Scion Occultist gets a flat 1% ES regen that is always active. Pure Occultist reduces enemy chaos res by 5% more but Scion Trickster gets 30% damage increase when not on max ES which will be the case in vs boss battles. Scion also gets more stat boosts (+60 Int turns into a lot of ES as well) and more passive points which kind of make them equal in max ES if Scion wants to put those extra points into more ES.
No. Do the PoB. Occultist is tanker and does more damage. Profane Bloom also means way faster clear speed. It's not even a contest.
With the way resist works 5% more chaos res is flat out way better than 30% damage.
The resist calculation is
dmg = (1-Resistance)*dmg
Every single pt of resistance that gets dropped means a MASSIVE increase. That's why something like even a +1 max res makes a MASSIVE difference in the amount of damage you take. Dropping 5 resist is WAY better than 30% damage increased.
Ok, I ran the same gear and skill tree Scion I made but as a Occultist. Yea I got more max ES (400 more) and a bit more damage (2000 more dot). Scion version still has some advantages. You just need to curse enemies to have them receive more damage, they don't need to be nearby (how much is radius of this nearby? ) Wicked Ward still needs you to not take damage for a while, while you are avoiding damage you are not doing damage. Scion gets a flat 1% regen buff. With Scion you can always have something like Writhing Jar to kickstart your Trickster buffs while Occultist will only give you 1% ES regen when you kill those two worms. Profane Bloom is useful but not really needed in 3.0 where Contagion now will get a AoE buff and be useful again. And with trickster you will never have mana problems.
Only real advantage I can see in 3.0 is that Occultist can go CI earlier with Wicked Ward while with Scion I might need to wait for my Beast Fur Shawl first.
You're vastly underestimating how insane Wicked Ward and Vile Bastion are defensively. Notably Wicked Ward doesn't stop your regen at full ES (basically creating 2-3s of invulnerability) and can be buffed with e.g. Soul Strike while Vile Bastion effectively makes you immune to damage while speeding from pack to pack.
Sure that's the HC perspective speaking but with VP gone, Occultist is pretty much the Queen of CI just because of these things. Also not to mention Labfarming is extremely smooth, safe and fast on Occultists, just as a cherry on top. CA/ED specifically is going to do great in 3.0.
Both builds are good vs packs. Scion Trickster has 50% ES regen while speeding from pack to pack which ends up as more. What matters is how this plays vs bosses. Those that can damage you will not let your wicked ward activate. Yes you can use a bow and Soul Strike but why when a +3 staff gives you a massive damage boost and 20% block which ends as even more leech. Scion does not need Soul Strike and can use that staff or that chaos unique scepter and a high ES shield.
Scion Trickster has 50% increased recovery rate, which means it boosts your ES regen by half. Let's say you have 5% life regen converted via Zealot's Oath that means this is now 7.5% ES regen/s.
Occultist has to kill 15 mobs in a pack to achieve the same regen with zero investment in regen nodes or Zealot's Oath. Again, I said you can boost this with Soul Strike if you wish (e.g. for Lab farming) but overall staff is by far the worst option. Your best bet will always be weapon+shield for shieldcharging in terms of clearspeed. Bow becomes a distant second with staff being the worst of them all since you're sacrificing both a movement ability and a shield.
Also I'm not sure what you mean by this:
Those that can damage you will not let your wicked ward activate.
Wicked Ward is amazing from Izaro to Shaper, your defense becomes 2 seconds of dodging after which you gain 4 seconds of effective immunity to most damage. Soul Strike brings this period to 1.2s, combined with Essence Surge to ~1s (legacy Soul Strike ~.5s which is why it was/is so bullshit), that's what makes it such a great swap for e.g. Labfarming.
All in all the Scion version of Occultist sacrifices everything that makes Occultist great (all of the notables except for Profane Bloom can be strong but Wicked Ward especially in this context) and gains 1% regen (wow) and... nothing else out of it.
The idea for Ascendant in general should be to pick one of them that is build defining and strong (e.g. Assassin comes to mind since it allows lots of builds to save one gem slot) and to then supplement that with e.g. Occultist because you choose to play it as CI. All in all that's just a case where it becomes extremely hard to justify any Scion version over Occultist simply because it's #1 for CI and also #1 choice for CI ED specifically. Trickster shines with life based ED more than anything else, RF/ED comes to mind for example.
ED is a bosskiller first and foremost and Occultist simply does that job the best as of now and will continue to do so in 3.0.
Now that I think about it like that for Scion it's pretty much Assassin (saves crit gem), Pathfinder (can become immune to elemental ailments with nodes), Raider (frenzy/onslaught), Guardian (curse 'immune' builds) are the build defining ones. I really can't think of another Ascendancy that I'd pick Scion for unless you can massively save points for pathing.
OK, I can understand people going Occultist if they don't plan to put any points into Zealot's Oath and life regen nodes.
But with Scion you can just tank shit with constant 2500 es regen per second. You stand there, activate your consecrated ground potion and kill shit. No need to dodge anything, no 2s need to avoid all attacks and all that shit. You got a safe dependable ES regen. And if you are fighting bosses without helpers to kill you use a Writhing potion to activate 50% regen boost.
As for staff my PoB for 3.0 told me I get 210 000 dps with ED Dot. Maybe worth sacrificing shield charge and use a quicksilver instead. Scepter + shield gives much less, bow gives even less. (this is dps without using poison, that one is not worth it anymore with poison gem only having 65% chance to poison on hit and with double dipping nerfs)
EDIT: In 3.0 Scion Pathfinder loses 50% immunity to ailments when using a flask.
something to keep in mind is that getting a +3 is moderately expensive (6 ex total cost I think?), and you have to wait until people have multiple master lvl 8s. how long does it usually take? at least a week?
scion and occultist ED not too far in power imo. the 15 mana regen from trickster!scion is pretty nice. Ultimately depends on how much you value wicked ward + 100 flat ES. for me the 100 flat ES is enough to tip it over.
relying on worm flask vs high hp bosses seems like a bad idea to me.
On July 21 2017 07:40 EchelonTee wrote: something to keep in mind is that getting a +3 is moderately expensive (6 ex total cost I think?), and you have to wait until people have multiple master lvl 8s. how long does it usually take? at least a week?
scion and occultist ED not too far in power imo. the 15 mana regen from trickster!scion is pretty nice. Ultimately depends on how much you value wicked ward + 100 flat ES. for me the 100 flat ES is enough to tip it over.
relying on worm flask vs high hp bosses seems like a bad idea to me.
Well this is the character I will play in 3.0 so we will find out. First Scepter + shield and later maybe a +2 or +3 staff with good Spell damage roll.
Iirc ZO in 2.6 was a bit of a mix, some took it, some didn't. It's nothing really build defining since you can't scale it up that easily without pretty big sacrifices compared to just relying on recharge rate. Embbu (day 5 Shaper in LHC) played with this tree in beta and simply used The Scourge, that also looked like a really strong option. Here the video for that.
As for staves, while they will get the most damage they also lack mobility and fortify which usually ends up being more important. Sure, QS of Adrenaline is an option but it's usually one that should be avoided unless you're playing a Necro or something similar. There's a reason you don't see staves among top players at all, goes for pretty much any build since a while now.
Shieldcharge means mobility, mobility means safety and clearspeed, something ED very badly needs. It's kind of funny that among all the things getting whacked in beta movement skills aren't one of them.
Poison wasn't ever worth it for ED builds fyi (except initially when it was bugged with decay iirc), decay alone was too strong to even need that, even for shaper.
theres no reason to choose sceptre over dagger, unless the new mods introduce relevant changes. Sai dagger has relevant implicit, sceptre doesnt. I'm also not sure how good Breath unique is over a dagger with high spell damage, attack speed, and cast speed. Losing the attack speed mod is a huge deal for mobility. The chaos skill duration on breath isnt very relevant (not poisoning)
Just kidding, it's crashing so far. I really wonder if I'll get all my pets that were lost in hideouts back eventually. :3
Chris:
Update 5: While the microtransaction migrations are running correctly and people who get in are able to use the new system, there are some significant realm stability issues that are disconnecting everyone else. We are shutting the realm down in order to redeploy 2.6.2 until this problem is solved. We are very sorry about the inconvenience. This is as frustrating for us as it is for you guys
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