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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba |
[+ Show Spoiler +QUOTE] On July 27 2011 09:03 Golgotha wrote:On July 27 2011 01:26 Mordiford wrote:
It blows my mind that the game could become this successful based on what it is. It was a fun game, but I always felt it really lacked the depth of some of it's competitors. At the end of the day, much like with Zynga and the like, I guess accessibility is what matters in terms of mass market success.
Good for them, it's a great casual games to kick back with some friends. exactly. back when hon and lol were new, we would always make fun of lol and how it was childish compared to hon...but now i eat my words. amazing success...gratz to them! but to be honest, i do not like mass market games, cuz most of them are catered to casual players.
Casuals are where the money is at, same with micro transactions, why make a unique and satisfying experiance when you can make sooooo much money instead?
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On July 27 2011 09:01 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 09:00 UndercoverNerd wrote:On July 27 2011 08:39 SKC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On July 27 2011 08:30 Alaron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:25 GogoKodo wrote:On July 27 2011 08:07 UndercoverNerd wrote:It's quite fun but there one thing that annoys me. Why does everyone compare it so much with DotA? Yes, Riot Games says it's DotA based...but imo the only thing they have similar is the river and the three lines. Don't get me wrong, but im playing DotA since pre-icefrog times(and very succesfull in tournaments  ) and I simply don't get it...For me it has more in common with WoW than with DotA. Riot Games did a nice job there, tho...let's hope they don't screw it up. I think it's pretty obvious that there are many more similarities than just the map layout. Like the entirety of the gameplay. Hate to burst your bubble. But it is so different it's crazy. Play some normal mode hon go buy wc3 for $10 and see what he means. It is much more like a WoW MOBA. The Items / rune / leveling system made it that way. Let's compare the similarities: Dota: - 5 heroes per team - 3 normal skills and an ultimate, you are able to get every single one of them. -Leveling system, that resets each game. - map - Creeps - Jungle - Gold system is similar, make gold by killing creeps or heroes to buy items. - Towers - Objective, kill the opposing team main building. - Items, not only many are similar, the whole build up and recipes system - A lot of skills are similar - Stronger than normal creep on the river, even if Dota only has one of them. - Probally other things that I am missing WoW: - Both have skills and levels, even if they work in a completelly diferent way? I guess what you mean is the talents in wow vs the runes and leveling system that LoL has outside the actual games, but that has almost nothing to do with game mechanics. I really have no idea how you can say LoL is closer to WoW than it is to Dota . Srry but the all-around system is even older then DotA - there were so many MOBA-"trailblazers" with similar stuff. Ur point that DotA heroes have an ultimate and WoW not is wrong. WoW heroes have a kind of ultimate. LoL "jungle" is a tenth of the DotA "forrest" - the traditional role of the forrest was completetly deleted in LoL. Magic Penetration, Armor Penetration, Ability Power thats WoW and NOT, I repeat, NOT DotA. A lot of skills are also similar to WoW, whats ur point? Imo LoL does not belong into the MOBA genre. There are a lot of factors outside the game which have influence in the game. Glyphs, Summoner-skills, hell even Heroes... Gaaaaaaaaaah! I hate the term MobA, it applies to a royal fuck-ton of games. Riot just pushed for it's use so that they wouldn't be associated with DotA. Can we just call it an AoS, based on the originator of the genre?
I'm fine with it, what I don't get is how someone can say it's closer to an MMORPG like WoW than it is to a MOBA/AoS/Dota clone/Whatever you want to call it. Games of the same genre are not carbon copies of each other, both Starcraft and Warcraft 3 are RTSs having very diferent mechanics, just as Counter Strike or Halo, what counts are the basic mechanics. And I'm really surprised people can say LoL is more similar to World of Warcraft than it is to Dota/HoN/AoS/Demigod/Sotis/etc., but I guess there isn't much else I can say.
I guess Age of Empires is closer to The Witcher than to Starcraft as well, since both have swords and stuff.
On July 27 2011 09:05 Alaron wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:39 SKC wrote:On July 27 2011 08:30 Alaron wrote:On July 27 2011 08:25 GogoKodo wrote:On July 27 2011 08:07 UndercoverNerd wrote:It's quite fun but there one thing that annoys me. Why does everyone compare it so much with DotA? Yes, Riot Games says it's DotA based...but imo the only thing they have similar is the river and the three lines. Don't get me wrong, but im playing DotA since pre-icefrog times(and very succesfull in tournaments ) and I simply don't get it...For me it has more in common with WoW than with DotA. Riot Games did a nice job there, tho...let's hope they don't screw it up. I think it's pretty obvious that there are many more similarities than just the map layout. Like the entirety of the gameplay. Hate to burst your bubble. But it is so different it's crazy. Play some normal mode hon go buy wc3 for $10 and see what he means. It is much more like a WoW MOBA. The Items / rune / leveling system made it that way. Let's compare the similarities: Dota: - 5 heroes per team - 3 normal skills and an ultimate, you are able to get every single one of them. -Leveling system, that resets each game. - map - Creeps - Jungle - Gold system is similar, make gold by killing creeps or heroes to buy items. - Towers - Objective, kill the opposing team main building. - Items, not only many are similar, the whole build up and recipes system - A lot of skills are similar - Stronger than normal creep on the river, even if Dota only has one of them. - Probally other things that I am missing WoW: - Both have skills and levels, even if they work in a completelly diferent way? I guess what you mean is the talents in wow vs the runes and leveling system that LoL has outside the actual games, but that has almost nothing to do with game mechanics. I really have no idea how you can say LoL is closer to WoW than it is to Dota. I was thinking more along the lines of. WoW: Grind to be better. LoL: Grind or pay money to be better than your opponent. Items are very very different. AP made it that way sorry. Gold system is very different too. No gold loss on death, more base gpm. Items that increase base gold gain. Jungle is riddled with stupid strong buffs. You can buy an infinite amount of wards. Invis reveal wards also have the same sight range as normal wards. No denies. Summoner abilities. Show me one game with someone that doesn't have ghost or flash please. Entire rune system is built on the basis of more time played = bigger edge. Or give me money to increase your edge without having to play as much. Barracks respawn. No Glyph. No Blink. No Runes. Bushes. One mode, easy mode. Want some more?
The point wasn't how close or not it is to Dota, I know it is not a carbon copy, but how close is it to it compared to WoW. Yes those things are diferent from Dota, while similar in broad terms, but are they really closer in WoW?
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Yes the entire metagame is completely different and all the out of game things RIOT put in make it much more like WoW than a general MOBA. The big kicker is the item stats in game.
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Canada11439 Posts
Wow those numbers are staggering.
But it's actually a really good game for something that's free. What else can you get for that quality? Flash games? Really grindy MMO's? But if you're looking for team-based competition, it's very good.
Why do I play it? It's free and decently competitive. I find it's a nice relaxing game when I don't feel like playing on iCCup.
What I also liked is that I could comp stomp with other noobs until I felt comfortable enough to play pvp with other noobs. It's a team game and I'm very cautious about joining when I know I'm going to be the weak link. This allows me to grind out a bunch of games with noob randoms or my friends until I feel like I'm at least somewhat competent. Also, I've yet to run into BM'ers, but then I don't play ranked.
I also liked the rotating champion system as it really does limit how many sorts of opponents I end up facing. 70 champions is rather overwhelming for a game I'm not interested in perfecting all aspects. But I can unlock my preferred champions and perfect my builds and attacks.
I dunno, for a casual of MOBA games that stumbled upon it from a recommendation one LAN night, it seems ideally designed.
No replays is pretty dumb however. Don't think I'd watch them anyways. Can't imagine watching a tournament of it.
edit:
And to the one that says there is no mana management- maybe it's not as significant as other MOBA's, but there certainly is mana management. At least for Ashe, until late game.
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On July 27 2011 09:11 SKC wrote:
I guess Age of Empires is closer to The Witcher than to Starcraft as well, since both have swords and stuff.
wow...really...this is just plain stupid...those game dont even have a relation to each other - other than LoL and WoW. You cant deny that!
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500000 players online at the same time, but only 1.4 mio in 24 hours, this are very courios numbers. I have seen player numbers of other games, where the total number of daily players was at least 10 times higher, then the peak number of players online at once.
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On July 27 2011 09:36 Desti wrote:
500000 players online at the same time, but only 1.4 mio in 24 hours, this are very courios numbers. I have seen player numbers of other games, where the total number of daily players was at least 10 times higher, then the peak number of players online at once.
500000 ingame. not online.
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Don't hate me, but I love playing LoL because I can actually play and not just get wtfowned by people who are 1000x better than me like in Dota or HoN.
Because of this though, I'd rather see Dota or HoN as a prominent e-sport.
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This game is very fun. I even got some buddies who dont play SC anymore because of it. Personally, the game is a very casual game that I sit down with a glass of wine after the wife falls asleep. But I didnt realize it had such a base.
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On July 27 2011 09:36 Desti wrote:
500000 players online at the same time, but only 1.4 mio in 24 hours, this are very courios numbers. I have seen player numbers of other games, where the total number of daily players was at least 10 times higher, then the peak number of players online at once.
I don't actually play the game but my friend does and he has been saying that it has like 30 minute queues so he usually queues as he gets home and leaves the game running and possibly plays later on.
This could be the case for many others as well, and like someone said online not in matches.
I'm not fan of DotA type games personally but this can only be good for the growth of e-sports, e-sports will never become big with just hardcore gamers. Potentially some of these LoL players will transition to games like SC2.
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I'm glad LoL's doing so well, but honestly I cannot see anyone who isn't a player have any interest in watching it whatsoever. So while it may bring in some nice numbers due to sheer volume of numbers, I don't necessarily want LoL to be the premier E-Sport.
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On July 27 2011 08:32 antelope591 wrote:
Near unlimited mana
that's just not true. without mana management you'll go oom just like in any other game.
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Great, now make a real observer mode/replays.
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On July 27 2011 01:26 howerpower wrote:
DOTA players are still gonna deny that LoL is legit and that it has more players than DOTA.
Hater's gonna hate I suppose.
What's incredible is how much it has grown lately, it didn't seem this big just like 4 months ago.
I don't know why that argument would be important at all anyways. Farmville beats them both combined but that doesn't make it a better game.
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On July 27 2011 09:53 Vaelone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 09:36 Desti wrote:
500000 players online at the same time, but only 1.4 mio in 24 hours, this are very courios numbers. I have seen player numbers of other games, where the total number of daily players was at least 10 times higher, then the peak number of players online at once. I don't actually play the game but my friend does and he has been saying that it has like 30 minute queues so he usually queues as he gets home and leaves the game running and possibly plays later on. This could be the case for many others as well, and like someone said online not in matches. I'm not fan of DotA type games personally but this can only be good for the growth of e-sports, e-sports will never become big with just hardcore gamers. Potentially some of these LoL players will transition to games like SC2.
If you have a really high ELO, the game makes sure to pit you with and against people of your level. around 1000, it was like 20 secs for a rank game. I'm at about 1500, and my queue now takes about 1 and a 1/2 minutes. This makes perfect sense, the only problem is that someone will always be at the tippy-top, and riot can't compensate people for playing against better or weaker opponents, since the role you play has a drastically different effect on the game.
Standard set-up nowadays I think is strong AP carry mid, strong sustainable main carry top, AD dps bottom laning with a support to keep them alive, and a jungler whose role is dependent on the champion, but I think jungler is more of a pseudo-roamer, since by the mere fact that you don't know where 1 player is, you cannot over-extend, hence why warding and map control are so important. I think its a bit of a blessing/curse, since there is no doubt in my mind that LoL fully utilizes teamwork, but it also makes the use of extreme passivity a must have weapon in your arsenal for any good player, something I and a lot of people (including spectators I'm sure) have a lot of trouble accepting, since being aggressive, pushing your limits and rewarding your aggression is my main source of fun in LoL.
I think that is owed mostly to skill differentials, and something that shouldn't be avoided. A fancy way of me saying "I like to pwn noobs, but if people are as good as me, how can i handily pwn them  "
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On July 27 2011 01:26 howerpower wrote:
DOTA players are still gonna deny that LoL is legit and that it has more players than DOTA.
Hater's gonna hate I suppose.
What's incredible is how much it has grown lately, it didn't seem this big just like 4 months ago.
Good DOTA players will always deny anything!
+ Show Spoiler +
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Rofl, each LoL thread eventually goes down this road.
LoL is more casual, more friendly, alot of people play it, alot of people watch it
Dota is to LoL what BW is to SC2, it doesn't mean its not entertaining to watch for alot of people.
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is awesome32277 Posts
On July 27 2011 08:46 Mordiford wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 08:40 Yoshinaka wrote:On July 27 2011 02:25 K_Dilkington wrote:
Just because a game is popular doesn't mean it's a good esport game. World of warcraft is the best example of this; it's hugely popular but it was never a good esport game. It was too random and simplistic in it's nature. The same is true for LoL; it's a fun casual game but it lacks depth, is to simplistic and is therefore not suited to be played as a sport.
But esport is ruled by sponsors so you will always have games like this unfortunately, it's too tempting for the tournament organizers to resist. do you even know how simplistic sc2 is compared to broodwar? yet sc2 is doing ok at a esports, a esports game shouldnt be measured by its level of depth but how much it can show to the spectators To draw another analogy, hopefully this works... Let's say BroodWar is like a version of basketball where you had to tap yourself on the head every first time you bounced the ball and on the ass every second time, it would be ridiculously difficult and have a higher skill cap and all that jazz and once people get used to it you'd say buttheadsketball is the more difficult game than basketball with it's standard simplification of removing the head and ass tapping.
This is a terrible terrible analogy and shows it's a horrible to portrait the differences betwee SC2 and BW on a competitive level..
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All I'm going to say is good for Riot man. They clearly see their game popularity shooting up, they're not going valve on that and doing some money-grabbing, instead they are fully supporting their own game. A game like this is always going to be more popular, because it's fun, very accessible and it's free . Plus the existence of any skill ceiling at all, which isn't too high allowing for casual people to get good, makes for an immensely popular game.
All it can do in the end is help e-sports, and I assume nobody in this thread wants to hurt e-sports right?
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On July 27 2011 09:05 Alaron wrote: No Glyph. No Blink. No Runes. Bushes. One mode, easy mode. Want some more?
>Glyph
Summoner Skill: Fortify
>Blink
Summoner Skill: Flash
>Runes
Jungle Camp Buffs
>Lack Of jungle Jukes
Bushes.
No gold loss on deaths imply timing attacks, similar to how Starcraft 2 you can expect strengths in your opponent over time and their income. This brings timing attacks/Defends.
Runes/Masterys micro transitions do not effect the game, as much as you might think.
The level 30 (where most people play the game) is like getting out of beginners league, able to play free matches where masteries are all on the same level (30 points) and Runes hardly effect anything when skills and gamesense win you the game.
Wholehardedly untill you are above the 1500/1600+ elo range.
Stop basing this game off of 50 or less matches played.
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