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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba | ||
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nMn
United States144 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:33 IntoTheWow wrote: This is a terrible terrible analogy and shows it's a horrible to portrait the differences betwee SC2 and BW on a competitive level.. I think a better analogy would be taking basketball, lowering the rim 4 feet so height plays no role and removing any dribbling rules in order to better integrate new players. | ||
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Pratoss
Canada201 Posts
No mana management? are you kidding me go play almost any champion (some have abilities that allow them to gain mana back) and you'll see this is hardly true. As for the other stuff people are saying the last post on page 9 covers it well. | ||
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juzlol
United States125 Posts
personal opinion kthx. User was warned for this post | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:45 nMn wrote: I think a better analogy would be taking basketball, lowering the rim 4 feet so height plays no role and removing any dribbling rules in order to better integrate new players. That's the analogy I made between DotA and League of Legends if you re-read my post, he was commenting on the specific comparison I made between BW and Starcraft 2 where I feel the changes were different from DotA to LoL. In the case of BW to SC2, I feel most of the changes were mechanical simplification while the game largely maintains the same depth with more of emphasis on scouting. The changes from DotA to LoL are somewhat fundamental, everything is substantially easier with some gameplay elements removed entirely such as denying. On July 27 2011 11:46 Pratoss wrote: Loving all the LoL hate coming from people who have at most probably played 10-15 games and think their the shit at it or something... No mana management? are you kidding me go play almost any champion (some have abilities that allow them to gain mana back) and you'll see this is hardly true. As for the other stuff people are saying the last post on page 9 covers it well. Generalizing is fun, I specifically mentioned I've played over 1000 games including games at a fairly high level. Some of the stuff people are saying is fairly accurate, some of it is hyperbolical, but making a general statement addressing nothing doesn't really add anything. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:46 Pratoss wrote: Loving all the LoL hate coming from people who have at most probably played 10-15 games and think their the shit at it or something... No mana management? are you kidding me go play almost any champion (some have abilities that allow them to gain mana back) and you'll see this is hardly true. As for the other stuff people are saying the last post on page 9 covers it well. now you're coming from a lol fanboy pov instead of a neutral one, kinda hurts your credibility. play dota and talk about mana efficiency, no blue buff no mp5 blues/yellows and skills cost way more. you have to consciously think about it, bottles rune fights. regen rune is retarded though, they seriously need to fix rune randomness. hate the comparisons to wow, runes and heroes are not comparable to gear in wow. i've played wow and let me tell you you can have blues and still get 2200+ if you're a really good player. gear isn't a limiting factor, it's a bonus. if you had r1 glads pvping in like blue pvp gear they can get gladiator. some people need heroes to play well. that's just up to the player runes are kinda comparable to gear, but gear has actually more of an effect. t1 runes are so good i disagree with the comparisons of bw to sc2, dota doesn't require top shape mechanics. it's not like in lol you can just win by outcsing or outlaning people, whereas in bw macro is such an important factor and sc2 it's easier but hard to get perfect. and i'm not criticizing the game, i really like it. just being perfectly honest. can't really argue that i find it more fun then dota, even though i do since that's opinion though | ||
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ThaddeusK
United States233 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:39 Snackysnacks wrote: >Glyph Summoner Skill: Fortify >Blink Summoner Skill: Flash >Runes Jungle Camp Buffs >Lack Of jungle Jukes Bushes. No gold loss on deaths imply timing attacks, similar to how Starcraft 2 you can expect strengths in your opponent over time and their income. This brings timing attacks/Defends. Runes/Masterys micro transitions do not effect the game, as much as you might think. The level 30 (where most people play the game) is like getting out of beginners league, able to play free matches where masteries are all on the same level (30 points) and Runes hardly effect anything when skills and gamesense win you the game. Wholehardedly untill you are above the 1500/1600+ elo range. Stop basing this game off of 50 or less matches played. having blink on every character is so much worse than having it be an item. Bushes are the most uninteresting form of juking in existence. Having champions does relate to power in draft mode, at least having the 20-30 characters that are worth playing is important. Having a 300 game tutorial to get to lvl 30 is honestly the worst part of the IP/RP/XP system. Bashing the game with 800 games played. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:55 shawster wrote: now you're coming from a lol fanboy pov instead of a neutral one, kinda hurts your credibility. play dota and talk about mana efficiency, no blue buff no mp5 blues/yellows and skills cost way more. you have to consciously think about it, bottles rune fights. regen rune is retarded though, they seriously need to fix rune randomness. hate the comparisons to wow, runes and heroes are not comparable to gear in wow. i've played wow and let me tell you you can have blues and still get 2200+ if you're a really good player. gear isn't a limiting factor, it's a bonus. if you had r1 glads pvping in like blue pvp gear they can get gladiator. some people need heroes to play well. that's just up to the player i disagree with the comparisons of bw to sc2, dota doesn't require top shape mechanics. it's not like in lol you can just win by outcsing or outlaning people, whereas in bw macro is such an important factor and sc2 it's easier but hard to get perfect. actually you can win in dota just by outcsing. of course it depends on the heroes, but to lose a lane that bad early on usually that means the person you're laning against outskills you by a lot anyway (or you really fucked up) and imo theres nothing wrong with runes. the "randomness" really just ends up emphasizing how important map control with wards, smokes, and ganks. | ||
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Snackysnacks
United States411 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:55 ThaddeusK wrote: having blink on every character is so much worse than having it be an item. Bushes are the most uninteresting form of juking in existence. Having champions does relate to power in draft mode, at least having the 20-30 characters that are worth playing is important. Having a 300 game tutorial to get to lvl 30 is honestly the worst part of the IP/RP/XP system. Bashing the game with 800 games played. Its available to every character, such as its available for purchase in dota (except pudge/VS) Opinion. You should have at least 20 champions by level 30, you should also have experenced play with them at least. The Level 1-30 thing as i mentioned as a tutorial should be your playtime to get used to the mechanics/champions, it is irrelevant to say its imbalanced due to everyone being in a practice league of skill (minus the perfect world of smurfing) Most mechanic complaining in league of legends, even from experienced players like you, is mostly unwarranted. Its all in game design and how the developers want the flow to go. Then again, matchmaking would be hell at this popular of a stage, trying to bring in a market of people who never even played a top-down RTS. Is it really bad for the game to have a "long" tutorial untill people hit a balanced level? Especially when they want to "grow" the game and its E-Sports community? Riot games does everything in its power to cater to the fanbase and customers, AMAZING customer support. Active and talking developers. Amazing people on the staff from all talents (including Blizzard employee's) Then again, this will recieve opinionated bash, and the second i mention the employee's are from World of warcraft design and War3 Balancing people will mock how they do not know how to design fun/popular games that bring in a competitive crowd. Threads of success should be met with praise, not all this random game bashing. Is this even a League of legends Lets discuss balance or why this game sucks thread? Or a League of legends hits major growth for a "well Designed game" As you will now bash me for this last line of comment. | ||
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Thadorus
Canada136 Posts
reasons i don't like LoL: -map is tiny (can see both outer towers on 1 screen...) -summoner spells ( why give everyone blink!?!?! this is terrible) - everything can be bought in 1 place (a little to easy) -many characters seem to have unlimited mana -heros are overpriced -no denying -messy graphics (cant tell wtfs going on big battle) -free teleports home probably more things i can't think of right now but my main point is its a really easy dota. | ||
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Microchaton
France342 Posts
People saying graphics are messy are just beginners or trolling, I have played hundreds of games of DotA, same for HoN, and LoL is by far the easiest to follow especially in teamfight, HoN being the worst of the three because of their graphic choices. Even experienced HoN players admit teamfights look like complete clusterfucks quite often. Free teleports home except it's interruptable on hit and takes 8 seconds (I think) of standing still. Is it really worse than having to walk back and spend 2 minutes not playing the game ? No, not really, it's not fun at all. "Everything can be bought in one place" : What the fuck kind of complain is that ? Is that just for the sake of trying to find reasons not to like the game ? The only reason secret shops exist in the first place is to gank people on them. And surprise, at similar positions (except on both sides of the mid lane) you find Golem/Lizard which fulfill the same purpose with much more efficiency. And lane shops ? They don't exist in LoL precisely because you can "tp back", having both would not make any sense. | ||
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FoeHamr
United States489 Posts
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On July 27 2011 12:49 Microchaton wrote: Saying flash is a free blink dagger is just plain wrong, it's like 1/3 of the range with and has like a 6 minutes cooldown...AND you give up another useful spell. I'm not saying I'm fine with everybody having a free blink, but fact is, the state of the game with flash is fine, and being aware of everybody's summoners and their cooldowns add even more depth to the game (some ganks don't even try to kill the person, just to make them blow their summoners). People saying graphics are messy are just beginners or trolling, I have played hundreds of games of DotA, same for HoN, and LoL is by far the easiest to follow especially in teamfight, HoN being the worst of the three because of their graphic choices. Even experienced HoN players admit teamfights look like complete clusterfucks quite often. Free teleports home except it's interruptable on hit and takes 8 seconds (I think) of standing still. Is it really worse than having to walk back and spend 2 minutes not playing the game ? No, not really, it's not fun at all. "Everything can be bought in one place" : What the fuck kind of complain is that ? Is that just for the sake of trying to find reasons not to like the game ? The only reason secret shops exist in the first place is to gank people on them. And surprise, at similar positions (except on both sides of the mid lane) you find Golem/Lizard which fulfill the same purpose with much more efficiency. And lane shops ? They don't exist in LoL precisely because you can "tp back", having both would not make any sense. I really don't think Flash is okay, Riot said they were going to remove it like 8 months ago but just left it in because it was a necessary crutch for a lot of heroes, it isn't balanced as a summoner spell, just about every single person runs Flash in competitive games, at Dreamhack you could see every player on both teams with Flash. It's just a bogus escape that makes early game agression painfully wasteful unless one side massively overextends, doubling back to get one kill is generally only worth it if the opposing player continues to play aggressively despite Flash being down which doesn't happen at higher levels of play. The graphics complaint comes down to personal preference, it's not really bad on a technical level as far as graphics go, you like that's fine, you don't like it, that's your personal preference. I'm personally fine with the graphics. Recall isn't really a huge issue, I think the bigger issue is the lack of a real team map presence element like the scroll of town portal or the homecoming stone from DotA and HoN respectively, I think that's part of what makes those games more exciting and intense because players can force themselves to get close to one another with enough effort and it also creates excitement for those last minute juke-escapes. It's not really possible to juke escape with an 8 second recall unless you could have pretty much made it out anyways and your opponents royally screw up in the chase, also Teleport's cooldown is too long for it to really be worth it to most players as a way of being there for your team. I don't really have any problem with everything being available in one place, I like the dynamic of the different shops in DotA/HoN, it's not really a positive or a negative, it can go either way depending on the situation, juking to the goblin shop, grabbing an item and piecing out with things like the the scroll of tp or buying that blink dagger at just the right time before a gank, the former occurs more often but basically it just allows teams to get together more with an easily accessible teleport. | ||
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carltron
24 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:46 Pratoss wrote: Loving all the LoL hate coming from people who have at most probably played 10-15 games and think their the shit at it or something... No mana management? are you kidding me go play almost any champion (some have abilities that allow them to gain mana back) and you'll see this is hardly true. As for the other stuff people are saying the last post on page 9 covers it well. lol... I play tanks exclusively on LoL and with a bunch of measely lvl1 mana/regen runes I can own early game so hard without ever worrying about mana. It's laughable if you compare it to Dota/HoN where you actually have to manage your spell usage very very carefully while maintaing a safe distance from the enemy. | ||
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locodoco
Korea (South)1615 Posts
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
On July 27 2011 11:39 Snackysnacks wrote: >Glyph Summoner Skill: Fortify >Blink Summoner Skill: Flash >Runes Jungle Camp Buffs >Lack Of jungle Jukes Bushes. No gold loss on deaths imply timing attacks, similar to how Starcraft 2 you can expect strengths in your opponent over time and their income. This brings timing attacks/Defends. Runes/Masterys micro transitions do not effect the game, as much as you might think. The level 30 (where most people play the game) is like getting out of beginners league, able to play free matches where masteries are all on the same level (30 points) and Runes hardly effect anything when skills and gamesense win you the game. Wholehardedly untill you are above the 1500/1600+ elo range. Stop basing this game off of 50 or less matches played. Im 2 levels short of 30 in LoL and ive played over 250 games. No one uses fortify due to the ridic cooldown and everyone using nothing but flash. Runes are nowhere near as powerful as neutral buffs simply because there is only one every 2 minutes. Bushes are nowhere near the level of juking you see in DotA/HoN with tangos. I can guarantee you if I spent the time to play LoL, I could easily get top tier and I'm nowhere near skilled enough to be a top DotA/HoN player. (1700-1800 MMR). And I love how you think runes do not matter. AN entire crit rune page gives around 20% passive crit. FROM RUNES, on any hero. Flat dodge seals give .75% dodge PER SEAL. It really does matter, sorry to say. No TP's at all its a very clunky unaction oriented version of DotA. PS: If you can tell me how to check my solo ELO i'm sure its decent. I play lvl 30's with full rune pages when I do play. | ||
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olmnator
Panama30 Posts
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Xaerkar
United States230 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6260 Posts
- They get matched with equal skilled opponents straight away (unlike BW/dota). - Linear learning curve (unlike the steep one of some other games). - Depth (where a skilled player will almost always win). I've heard some arguments that LoL doesn't fare too well in depth, but is this really the case? I don't play it and don't follow the scene so I'm not sure. The demand for these types of games will continue to increase. | ||
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Alaron
United States225 Posts
On July 27 2011 13:32 Xaerkar wrote: I hope Riot keeps making new heroes for this game, it would suck if they decided to stop developing this game once Dota 2 comes out. I don't understand why people hate on this game so much just because it's casual. I played Dota and HoN and each game brings me different kinds of joy. I do not hate this game. It should not be the premier competitive game for the genre and most people disagree with that. | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
Haha, I read this entire thread, this was the only thing that made me smile  Anyway, as much as I dislike the game, it's great that LoL is attracting so many players. Not only is it good for e-sports, but also when DotA 2 comes out, a lot more people will be familiar with the moba (ugh) genre and take notice of the game. | ||
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