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Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba |
Australia18228 Posts
On July 27 2011 16:18 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +in DotA/HoN you only have enough mana to cast a couple spells normally early on and they can mean death for somebody. In League you can cast that spell a bunch more times but if it hits you once you lose a proportional amount of hitpoints so you don't get blown up in two seconds. It's a lot more interesting having to dodge skill shots the entire time you're in lane instead of waiting for that perfect moment to faceroll your keyboard to 100->0 somebody. You're welcome to disagree, but that's my opinion.
The only thing I agree with is that Flash should be removed. At the very least they made it stop dodging projectiles awhile back ^_^ Knowing if people have summoners up or not is part of the game though that adds to the "depth" or "skill ceiling" of the game. Come on man, at least speak some truth if you are exaggerating. If you are out of position in hon/dota during laning you can get heavily punished (creeps denied, harassed, nuked, etc), and sometimes dying is a part of that. I know it might sound outlandish to you because in LoL there's like 1 death in the first 10 minutes. Calling hon/dota "facerolling" is dumb as hell, and equally ironic since LoL is widely considered the easier game to play. Also, flash is retarded. It's a get out of jail free card on a cooldown that rewards people for fucking up, or gives them free initiation. Imagine if port key or dagger came standard on every hero in hon/dota. It breaks the game. I can't believe flash has survived since closed beta, when I actually played and thought LoL was pretty fun.
(Repeating point from post before)
Flash is still in the game because it's one of the only thing that allows the player's individual skills to have an impact on the result of the game. There's so many things that you can do with Flash and so many opportunities or moments that you have to use your understanding of the game to make the most of out your flashes.
It's a get out of jail card... only if your reaction is good enough that you flash before that champion stuns/suppresses you (they can flash to close the distance as well) and you get burst down instantly. Most of the time, it also forces team coordination as when you are truly being ganked, they have to take their ability to blink into consideration and time their 'crowd controls' for a certain kill or block all your escape routes. The idea of protection in the early game is also vital as it allows players to choose ranged carries without simply dying to every champion with 'crowd control' and high burst (while allowing enemy bursters who are more skilled than you to completely zone and kill you with a surprise flash), and the more skilled players can bypass the early stages of the game. Not to mention, if you watch/player in higher levels, you can .see that the players who simply use flash to go in a straight line are often still killed/ganked
Free initiation is good, because it adds some action into the game and allows easier ganking as well as juking (takes advantage of your ability to flash over walls instead of an enemy who doesn't understand how trees and fog of war works) and forces the enemy to constantly be in the right position and requires excellent team co-ordination to take advantage of the surprise initiation (a lot of the time, Amumu's ult goes to waste as everyone's too far behind).
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On July 27 2011 16:18 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +in DotA/HoN you only have enough mana to cast a couple spells normally early on and they can mean death for somebody. In League you can cast that spell a bunch more times but if it hits you once you lose a proportional amount of hitpoints so you don't get blown up in two seconds. It's a lot more interesting having to dodge skill shots the entire time you're in lane instead of waiting for that perfect moment to faceroll your keyboard to 100->0 somebody. You're welcome to disagree, but that's my opinion.
The only thing I agree with is that Flash should be removed. At the very least they made it stop dodging projectiles awhile back ^_^ Knowing if people have summoners up or not is part of the game though that adds to the "depth" or "skill ceiling" of the game. Come on man, at least speak some truth if you are exaggerating. If you are out of position in hon/dota during laning you can get heavily punished (creeps denied, harassed, nuked, etc), and sometimes dying is a part of that. I know it might sound outlandish to you because in LoL there's like 1 death in the first 10 minutes. Calling hon/dota "facerolling" is dumb as hell, and equally ironic since LoL is widely considered the easier game to play. Also, flash is retarded. It's a get out of jail free card on a cooldown that rewards people for fucking up, or gives them free initiation. Imagine if port key or dagger came standard on every hero in hon/dota. It breaks the game. I can't believe flash has survived since closed beta, when I actually played and thought LoL was pretty fun.
i like the game as a whole, sometimes primarily because of the people i play with
at the same time, i don't find it surprising in the slightest anymore that i know female players who play the game quite often, and quite well
there are some problems with knowing how the play the game well, and some champion matchups in lane are frankly just much harder/easier given that in pub games (not ranked games)
everyone just plays what they want in blind-pick
it's the same for dota and HoN considering hero matchups but from experience in LoL, it seems to reward passive and defensive play a lot more when towers are extremely hard to push/dive early early on
if i had a port-key in LoL i'd be so damn happy, it's 1/6th the cooldown that flash has
and being such a team-based game (where your team tends to roll around together the later the game gets) it's very easy to blow it on the smallest of things
i'd be happy because of how much abuse i'd be able to do
eg. with nida's max range spear throw, and amumu able to get to wherever he wants to
don't forget the range on the port-key, flash barely allows a wall-jump
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The thing with Lol is:
I played TONS of Dota (not really competetively, just pick up league) and tryed HON (after a Dota break) after 2 games i uninstalled it and never ever looked back. There is just no point playing HON when you also could play DOTA.
LoL is a little diffrent, at least when you play solo. Feeding is not as bad as in Dota, so even if your team has one total idiot you can still win... No denying (and other stuff) "hurts" a little but u get used to it.
LoL is just fun, i don't take it too serious andhave a blast. Way more "pick up" games become "good/ok" compared to Dota where the ~2 "best" players per team way to often kinda decide the whole outcome of the game because they feed on the scrubs  . This is good for HIGH level/team based competetive play, it's terrible for people that just want to play a "quick" Dota and don't have several buddies at hand at all times.
LoL is way more casual, but still deep enough to be interesting.
The LP come fast... Only the "leveling up" to 30i takes ages...
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Free to play and a casual learning curve.
Thats they key to success these days.
I don't like lol at all after trying it out and much prefer HoN but I can certainly understand why people like it. Easier game to play while relaxing honestly with enough depth to keep people playing.
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LoL is still a horrible, horrible game. :/
User was temp banned for this post.
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The reason I prefer LoL over HoN is that while playing HoN at a high level was so serious and you couldn't make a single mistake. Playing LoL is so casual and easy. Especially if you play with friends.
On July 27 2011 17:28 ain wrote:
LoL is still a horrible, horrible game. :/
Come on, why would this many people play a game if it was that bad. Try playing it for a while it actually becomes quite addicting.
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On July 27 2011 17:29 Johnny Business wrote:
The reason I prefer LoL over HoN is that while playing HoN at a high level was so serious and you couldn't make a single mistake. Playing LoL is so casual and easy. Especially if you play with friends.
It's also the exact reason why I prefer HoN over LoL and why LoL has little potential as a spectator eSport
On July 27 2011 17:29 Johnny Business wrote:Come on, why would this many people play a game if it was that bad. Try playing it for a while it actually becomes quite addicting.
Farmtown
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On July 27 2011 13:23 Alaron wrote:
Im 2 levels short of 30 in LoL and ive played over 250 games. No one uses fortify due to the ridic cooldown and everyone using nothing but flash. Runes are nowhere near as powerful as neutral buffs simply because there is only one every 2 minutes. Bushes are nowhere near the level of juking you see in DotA/HoN with tangos. I can guarantee you if I spent the time to play LoL, I could easily get top tier and I'm nowhere near skilled enough to be a top DotA/HoN player. (1700-1800 MMR). And I love how you think runes do not matter. AN entire crit rune page gives around 20% passive crit. FROM RUNES, on any hero. Flat dodge seals give .75% dodge PER SEAL. It really does matter, sorry to say. No TP's at all its a very clunky unaction oriented version of DotA.
PS: If you can tell me how to check my solo ELO i'm sure its decent. I play lvl 30's with full rune pages when I do play.
I hit 30 in about 150 wins, 65 losses, i guess by your standards i am the league of legends guru.
ELO unranked is irrelevent, since the inflation of premades to solo'ers
I would really wish, to challange you to start ranked games, Where your map awareness, champion controll, split second decisionmaking, and most importantly Leadership will win you games.
Any 1600+ elo ranked player can tell you that you know when you belong in the 1600 elo range, you will simply be there. Things such as leavers/disconnecters shouldnt stop you from winning, people at the lower leveled range wont even know how to secure victories properly (think of lower leveled starcraft)
You simply think because its a easier game, it should have a lower skill ceiling. Its not, Enjoy playing the many Meta's once you get higher ranked (meta's double solo 1 Jungler, Meet either double jungle, level 4 jungler into triple solo lanes, Double jungle early baron)
Yes, i understand a full crit page gives 20% crit, but thats not to say it requires time invested to be fully better than the other guy, T1 Runes gets you close enough and your skill > theirs will win the game.
Im sorry bro, just because you are head of your practice league does not mean you can validate the game yet.
On July 27 2011 17:32 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 17:29 Johnny Business wrote:
The reason I prefer LoL over HoN is that while playing HoN at a high level was so serious and you couldn't make a single mistake. Playing LoL is so casual and easy. Especially if you play with friends. It's also the exact reason why I prefer HoN over LoL and why LoL has little potential as a spectator eSport
Riding a unicycle is alot harder than a bike, Doesn't mean that bike races will replaced with the more hardcore, unforgiving unicycle.
Bike riding is so casual, even 7 year olds ride bikes AND they play games like farmville
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from some1 that played lol(tsm AD carry) and dota(played dota in sg against teams such like zenith and sk) in competitive settings
lol has the depth and mechanical skills and flair to become a very BIG esport
maybe even bigger than sc2
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On July 27 2011 17:37 locodoco wrote:
from some1 that played lol(tsm AD carry) and dota(played dota in sg against teams such like zenith and sk) in competitive settings
lol has the depth and mechanical skills and flair to become a very BIG esport
maybe even bigger than sc2
Oh get out Are you really locodoco?
Your soo good bro.
You should arrange a game with some TSM members vs some of the level 15-30's who keep bashing this game calling it easy.
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On July 27 2011 17:37 locodoco wrote:
from some1 that played lol(tsm AD carry) and dota(played dota in sg against teams such like zenith and sk) in competitive settings
lol has the depth and mechanical skills and flair to become a very BIG esport
maybe even bigger than sc2
so agree. people really underestimate LoL in just about everything.
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On July 27 2011 17:44 Snackysnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 17:37 locodoco wrote:
from some1 that played lol(tsm AD carry) and dota(played dota in sg against teams such like zenith and sk) in competitive settings
lol has the depth and mechanical skills and flair to become a very BIG esport
maybe even bigger than sc2 Oh get out Are you really locodoco? Your soo good bro. You should arrange a game with some TSM members vs some of the level 15-30's who keep bashing this game calling it easy.
LoL is an easier game to play when compared to other games in its genre.
This point is entirely irrefutable. That aside the high level play in LoL is still going to be leagues above some guys just starting out. There is depth to the game after all...this is also irrefutable.
Not sure what your point is. Nobody really calls LoL easy until you talk about it in relation to other games in its genre. Yes LoL has a lot of depth and a fairly high skill ceiling. People so defensive these days.
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Most people who play LoL have never tired HoN, just saying.
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What is so great about it?
I downloaded it and played a bit, it just feels very repetitive and easy overall. I`m not trolling, just want to know if there is more to it than it seems.
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On July 27 2011 17:51 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 17:44 Snackysnacks wrote:On July 27 2011 17:37 locodoco wrote:
from some1 that played lol(tsm AD carry) and dota(played dota in sg against teams such like zenith and sk) in competitive settings
lol has the depth and mechanical skills and flair to become a very BIG esport
maybe even bigger than sc2 Oh get out Are you really locodoco? Your soo good bro. You should arrange a game with some TSM members vs some of the level 15-30's who keep bashing this game calling it easy. LoL is an easier game to play when compared to other games in its genre. This point is entirely irrefutable. That aside the high level play in LoL is still going to be leagues above some guys just starting out. There is depth to the game after all...this is also irrefutable. Not sure what your point is. Nobody really calls LoL easy until you talk about it in relation to other games in its genre. Yes LoL has a lot of depth and a fairly high skill ceiling. People so defensive these days.
Its game design compensated for game design.
The thing is, you cant compare skill caps for Any MOBA games to League of legends, You gain a different mindset of things.
Im a tad be defensive (and kinda posting alot in this thread) because this should be an appreciation of a upcoming gaming company's growth, and you can never avoid the hon/dota players that come in and pick fights over these stupid issues.
On July 27 2011 17:57 TerdToss wrote:
Most people who play LoL have never tired HoN, just saying.
Unless you are talking to someone specifically, this is exactly the posts that starts the flamewars in these threads. Hell even the notice for the thread states:
Do not turn this into a (insert game here) vs. LoL argument. It's about LoL and Riot's success, which is great for ESPORTS. - Jibba
On July 27 2011 17:57 Elementsu wrote:
What is so great about it?
I downloaded it and played a bit, it just feels very repetitive and easy overall. I`m not trolling, just want to know if there is more to it than it seems.
Everyone has different tastes, cant force you to play it. If its not your tea then just leave it at that.
I think of my friends on this issue, I know my friend who plays fighting games/Xbox shooters (no offense) would never play a game like this, i actually never urged them to try LoL.
Your motivation should be to find something in the game you like, and play to enjoy it for that reason, Some people love straight competitive games, and may like shooting/fighting/ and RTS.
Alot of people enjoy (i didnt say play) league of legends for the lore around it, You can try getting into that if it sounds appealing to you.
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On July 27 2011 17:34 Snackysnacks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 13:23 Alaron wrote:
Im 2 levels short of 30 in LoL and ive played over 250 games. No one uses fortify due to the ridic cooldown and everyone using nothing but flash. Runes are nowhere near as powerful as neutral buffs simply because there is only one every 2 minutes. Bushes are nowhere near the level of juking you see in DotA/HoN with tangos. I can guarantee you if I spent the time to play LoL, I could easily get top tier and I'm nowhere near skilled enough to be a top DotA/HoN player. (1700-1800 MMR). And I love how you think runes do not matter. AN entire crit rune page gives around 20% passive crit. FROM RUNES, on any hero. Flat dodge seals give .75% dodge PER SEAL. It really does matter, sorry to say. No TP's at all its a very clunky unaction oriented version of DotA.
PS: If you can tell me how to check my solo ELO i'm sure its decent. I play lvl 30's with full rune pages when I do play.
I hit 30 in about 150 wins, 65 losses, i guess by your standards i am the league of legends guru. ELO unranked is irrelevent, since the inflation of premades to solo'ers I would really wish, to challange you to start ranked games, Where your map awareness, champion controll, split second decisionmaking, and most importantly Leadership will win you games. Any 1600+ elo ranked player can tell you that you know when you belong in the 1600 elo range, you will simply be there. Things such as leavers/disconnecters shouldnt stop you from winning, people at the lower leveled range wont even know how to secure victories properly (think of lower leveled starcraft) You simply think because its a easier game, it should have a lower skill ceiling. Its not, Enjoy playing the many Meta's once you get higher ranked (meta's double solo 1 Jungler, Meet either double jungle, level 4 jungler into triple solo lanes, Double jungle early baron) Yes, i understand a full crit page gives 20% crit, but thats not to say it requires time invested to be fully better than the other guy, T1 Runes gets you close enough and your skill > theirs will win the game. Im sorry bro, just because you are head of your practice league does not mean you can validate the game yet. Show nested quote +On July 27 2011 17:32 Scarecrow wrote:On July 27 2011 17:29 Johnny Business wrote:
The reason I prefer LoL over HoN is that while playing HoN at a high level was so serious and you couldn't make a single mistake. Playing LoL is so casual and easy. Especially if you play with friends. It's also the exact reason why I prefer HoN over LoL and why LoL has little potential as a spectator eSport Riding a unicycle is alot harder than a bike, Doesn't mean that bike races will replaced with the more hardcore, unforgiving unicycle. Bike riding is so casual, even 7 year olds ride bikes AND they play games like farmville
Are you kidding me? Your still riding it being a harder game. With a higher skill ceiling. If you are serious god help you or you haven't touched DotA/HoN. Easy mode DotA was never considered difficult because it removes all the skillful parts of DotA. Carries ran rampant and any int hero was a waste of a pick. Im really not interested in grinding 30 more games to hit 30 in LoL just so I can have to grind a ton more to buy runes to be competitive. HoN has it all right there and ready to go. That is why it is and always will be a much better eSport.
EDIT: Also to the post above me its a double edged sword, LoL players do the exact same thing. LoL will never be as competitive as a real DotA clone. Simply because of fundamentals. I never said it wasn't a great game to play casually. I play it as i've said. But I will never care about rating or anything of the sort in that game unless I don't have to grind/pay money for it.
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It's a fun game, a nice game to play every once in a while. I just want to know what's going to happen to those numbers when DOTA2 comes out. Up or down, we shall see.
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lol will never be competitive?
10~15 offline events coming up next year
all just "casual" lan meets ups right?
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On July 27 2011 18:09 locodoco wrote:
lol will never be competitive?
10~15 offline events coming up next year
all just "casual" lan meets ups right?
Not even going to continue bothering myself with explaining this. Every game is competitive. LoL should not lead the genre, it is bad for the genre because it is the easiest and lowest skill ceiling among the others. It is nowhere near as entertaining to a spectator.
Congrats to RIOT. You made a successful free micro transaction game.
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On July 27 2011 18:00 Alaron wrote:\
Are you kidding me? Your still riding it being a harder game. With a higher skill ceiling.
I never said harder, You claim dota is a harder game, Mechanically yes, Fundamentally, You cant respond to that. Nonstop this thread bashes this game, calling it a game with little or no skill ceiling with little or no support for your arguments. I play dota yes, before you make judgements, mechanically it is harder. Broodwar is harder for me too, but im tired of arguing a two game comparisons that are in the same genre where people who play league of legends consider it to be outside the standard MOBA genre/mechanics.
Im not gonna get into this, or respond to anything after these last comment since its futile for both our points.
Just if you have any hate, concerns of league of legends being so inferior, You should try keeping it in your Dota/Hon thread so We can have a League of legends appreciation thread in peace. This is like a fanclub post and your belittling riots achievement.
Stop saying "league of legends is a great piece of casual shit oh and by the way its still shit for these reasons i dare anybody to argue these reasons why its not shit"
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EPT
