• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:57
CET 13:57
KST 21:57
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge1[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation13Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread About SC2SEA.COM Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2279 users

TL Chess Match 4 - Page 55

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 53 54 55 56 57 140 Next
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25555 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 22:43:47
September 08 2011 22:43 GMT
#1081
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-08 23:18:39
September 08 2011 23:14 GMT
#1082
On September 09 2011 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?

+ Show Spoiler +

There is a tendency these days to favor bishops more than knights. Virtually all of the arguments given for Nbd2 tend toward some argument about not wanting to give up a bishop for a knight. When I play blitz, the weaker opponents I play will take literally every opportunity to trade their knight for a bishop, even if there's no real thought or reasoning behind it. They think it wins material.

I think it's really a prejudice, because the strength of bishop vs. knight depends entirely on the position, ie. whether it is open or closed, the colors the central pieces occupy, etc. This game still has the potential for either.

Examples:

On September 08 2011 11:40 hype[NZ] wrote:
I agree

8.Nbd2

edit: to elaborate why 8.Nbd2 is superior to 8.Bd2:

Basically what we should aim to do is maintain the pair of bishops, which can be beneficial to us in the endgame. Hence we shouldn't allow black to trade his knight on e4 for our bishop.



On September 08 2011 11:52 Picklesicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:36 qrs wrote:
OK, pretty much what we expected. I vote 8. Nbd2 for the reasons given in this post.


For all the same reasons as qrs (and hypeNZ), I also vote

8. Nbd2

To restate:
Primarily because I support trying to hold on to our bishop pair unless there's a definite advantage to trading one away.



On September 09 2011 01:26 mastergriggy wrote:
8.Nbd2

I mean it's either that or Bd2, but I'd prefer to keep my Bishop on the board as the position is open.

Edit: Qrs, you're analysis is perfect. I just got to throw that out there haha




"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
Ikari
Profile Joined April 2007
United States176 Posts
September 08 2011 23:23 GMT
#1083
8.Nbd2
God Mode: Alt+F4
MrProphylactic
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
296 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 00:07:04
September 08 2011 23:30 GMT
#1084
+ Show Spoiler +
Some interesting lines in the unconventional bb4 kf1, which now that I look at the complexities would have been another really cool novelty to spring on NG5. IT can be playable in structures like these when the a6 f1 diagonal is controlled as we do now . But I would probably turn blue in the face explaining why this is playable, based solely on aesthetic impression the move makes ( splitting the rooks , losing the castle etc . However it would combine with h4 ng5 ideas, and pushing the h pawn to h5 if possible , and lifting the rook to say rh4 or rh3 to rg3. Some really interesting positions arise from this, some of this I will provide below.
I never would have talked anybody into this though, no matter how much analysis I provided. Here are some interesting ideas to me at least . bb4 kf1? d5 qa4 winning . bb4 kf1 0-0 d5 winning. taking that into account bb4 kf1? qe7(probably best or ba5) qc2 f5 h4 0-0 qc4+ kh8 bg5 nxb hxg5 opening the h file with a nice attack .
Due to the semi-closed nature of the board The lines appear to keep the initiative for white, while avoiding any exchanges . For instance some other examples . Bb4 Kf1?! qe7 qc2 f5 (hard to find a better move than this for black here , if d5 bxc6 wins) h4 ba5 nc3 nb4 qe2 c6 bc4 d5 exd e.p. nxd qxq kxq bb3 and from here if black tries nd3 white ends up better after bg5 which is a long line in itself .
Big breath ... here we go .... nd3 bg5+ ke8 (kd7 leads to another strong position for white ) rd1 nxb2 re1+ ne4 nxn bxr nd6+ kd7 nf7 re8 nxbe1 b6 ne5 +kc7 and we lift our rook to h3 with a winning game.
"The Beauty of a move is not in its appearance, but the thought behind it" Nimzovitch
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25555 Posts
September 08 2011 23:39 GMT
#1085
On September 09 2011 08:14 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?

+ Show Spoiler +

There is a tendency these days to favor bishops more than knights. Virtually all of the arguments given for Nbd2 tend toward some argument about not wanting to give up a bishop for a knight. When I play blitz, the weaker opponents I play will take literally every opportunity to trade their knight for a bishop, even if there's no real thought or reasoning behind it. They think it wins material.

I think it's really a prejudice, because the strength of bishop vs. knight depends entirely on the position, ie. whether it is open or closed, the colors the central pieces occupy, etc. This game still has the potential for either.

Examples:

On September 08 2011 11:40 hype[NZ] wrote:
I agree

8.Nbd2

edit: to elaborate why 8.Nbd2 is superior to 8.Bd2:

Basically what we should aim to do is maintain the pair of bishops, which can be beneficial to us in the endgame. Hence we shouldn't allow black to trade his knight on e4 for our bishop.



On September 08 2011 11:52 Picklesicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:36 qrs wrote:
OK, pretty much what we expected. I vote 8. Nbd2 for the reasons given in this post.


For all the same reasons as qrs (and hypeNZ), I also vote

8. Nbd2

To restate:
Primarily because I support trying to hold on to our bishop pair unless there's a definite advantage to trading one away.



On September 09 2011 01:26 mastergriggy wrote:
8.Nbd2

I mean it's either that or Bd2, but I'd prefer to keep my Bishop on the board as the position is open.

Edit: Qrs, you're analysis is perfect. I just got to throw that out there haha






+ Show Spoiler +

I see. I thought as a general rule it was nice to preserve a bishop rather than a knight because you can mate with 2 bishops, or 1 bishop 1 knight, but you can't mate with 2 knights. On the other hand, it's relatively rare to enter the end-game with 2 minors and nothing else I guess.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
MrProphylactic
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
296 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 00:46:03
September 09 2011 00:17 GMT
#1086
On September 09 2011 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 08:14 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On September 09 2011 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?

+ Show Spoiler +

There is a tendency these days to favor bishops more than knights. Virtually all of the arguments given for Nbd2 tend toward some argument about not wanting to give up a bishop for a knight. When I play blitz, the weaker opponents I play will take literally every opportunity to trade their knight for a bishop, even if there's no real thought or reasoning behind it. They think it wins material.

I think it's really a prejudice, because the strength of bishop vs. knight depends entirely on the position, ie. whether it is open or closed, the colors the central pieces occupy, etc. This game still has the potential for either.

Examples:

On September 08 2011 11:40 hype[NZ] wrote:
I agree

8.Nbd2

edit: to elaborate why 8.Nbd2 is superior to 8.Bd2:

Basically what we should aim to do is maintain the pair of bishops, which can be beneficial to us in the endgame. Hence we shouldn't allow black to trade his knight on e4 for our bishop.



On September 08 2011 11:52 Picklesicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:36 qrs wrote:
OK, pretty much what we expected. I vote 8. Nbd2 for the reasons given in this post.


For all the same reasons as qrs (and hypeNZ), I also vote

8. Nbd2

To restate:
Primarily because I support trying to hold on to our bishop pair unless there's a definite advantage to trading one away.



On September 09 2011 01:26 mastergriggy wrote:
8.Nbd2

I mean it's either that or Bd2, but I'd prefer to keep my Bishop on the board as the position is open.

Edit: Qrs, you're analysis is perfect. I just got to throw that out there haha






+ Show Spoiler +

I see. I thought as a general rule it was nice to preserve a bishop rather than a knight because you can mate with 2 bishops, or 1 bishop 1 knight, but you can't mate with 2 knights. On the other hand, it's relatively rare to enter the end-game with 2 minors and nothing else I guess.


You can mate with two knights, it just cannot be FORCED in under 50 moves with only
kings .( They used to believe it was possible and some competitive sites as a result have two knights as being mating material in king and two knights versus king ending ).
The reason bishops are favored is because if you put a bishop on its optimal square in the center it controls more space than a knight on its optimal square.
A knight controls 8 squares maximum a bishop can control up to 13 squares , it has what is called unrestricted 4-point geometry . The value of pieces is based on how many squares they can potentially attack more or less. However the knight has an added bonus of being able to switch color complexes and jump over things, which makes its value a little eccentric . It is generally more valued in closed positions, or endings with pawns on one side of the board only.
"The Beauty of a move is not in its appearance, but the thought behind it" Nimzovitch
Picklesicle
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States64 Posts
September 09 2011 00:53 GMT
#1087
On September 09 2011 08:14 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?

+ Show Spoiler +

There is a tendency these days to favor bishops more than knights. Virtually all of the arguments given for Nbd2 tend toward some argument about not wanting to give up a bishop for a knight. When I play blitz, the weaker opponents I play will take literally every opportunity to trade their knight for a bishop, even if there's no real thought or reasoning behind it. They think it wins material.

I think it's really a prejudice, because the strength of bishop vs. knight depends entirely on the position, ie. whether it is open or closed, the colors the central pieces occupy, etc. This game still has the potential for either.

Examples:

On September 08 2011 11:40 hype[NZ] wrote:
I agree

8.Nbd2

edit: to elaborate why 8.Nbd2 is superior to 8.Bd2:

Basically what we should aim to do is maintain the pair of bishops, which can be beneficial to us in the endgame. Hence we shouldn't allow black to trade his knight on e4 for our bishop.



On September 08 2011 11:52 Picklesicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:36 qrs wrote:
OK, pretty much what we expected. I vote 8. Nbd2 for the reasons given in this post.


For all the same reasons as qrs (and hypeNZ), I also vote

8. Nbd2

To restate:
Primarily because I support trying to hold on to our bishop pair unless there's a definite advantage to trading one away.



On September 09 2011 01:26 mastergriggy wrote:
8.Nbd2

I mean it's either that or Bd2, but I'd prefer to keep my Bishop on the board as the position is open.

Edit: Qrs, you're analysis is perfect. I just got to throw that out there haha






I agree with you. The worth of a bishop vs a knight is entirely situational and can and often does even change within a given game. I don't think that I have ever argued otherwise (correct me if I'm wrong). + Show Spoiler +
While I admittedly did not explicitly state that for my reasoning this turn, I have said, repeatedly, on previous turns that I think that the position is conducive to our bishops. I have also talked about eying a knight outpost based off the advanced pawn which was your excellent brainchild.
Still, I continue to believe that in this positionI would like to hold on to our bishop pair and give up a (singular) knight. I could be quite quite wrong, and that's fine. I think I've adequately shown that I've got no issue with being corrected.
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
September 09 2011 01:12 GMT
#1088
--- Nuked ---
Boozerr
Profile Joined October 2010
United States28 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 01:27:51
September 09 2011 01:14 GMT
#1089
8. Kf1
On September 09 2011 08:30 MrProphylactic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Some interesting lines in the unconventional bb4 kf1, which now that I look at the complexities would have been another really cool novelty to spring on NG5. IT can be playable in structures like these when the a6 f1 diagonal is controlled as we do now . But I would probably turn blue in the face explaining why this is playable, based solely on aesthetic impression the move makes ( splitting the rooks , losing the castle etc . However it would combine with h4 ng5 ideas, and pushing the h pawn to h5 if possible , and lifting the rook to say rh4 or rh3 to rg3. Some really interesting positions arise from this, some of this I will provide below.
I never would have talked anybody into this though, no matter how much analysis I provided. Here are some interesting ideas to me at least . bb4 kf1? d5 qa4 winning . bb4 kf1 0-0 d5 winning. taking that into account bb4 kf1? qe7(probably best or ba5) qc2 f5 h4 0-0 qc4+ kh8 bg5 nxb hxg5 opening the h file with a nice attack .
Due to the semi-closed nature of the board The lines appear to keep the initiative for white, while avoiding any exchanges . For instance some other examples . Bb4 Kf1?! qe7 qc2 f5 (hard to find a better move than this for black here , if d5 bxc6 wins) h4 ba5 nc3 nb4 qe2 c6 bc4 d5 exd e.p. nxd qxq kxq bb3 and from here if black tries nd3 white ends up better after bg5 which is a long line in itself .
Big breath ... here we go .... nd3 bg5+ ke8 (kd7 leads to another strong position for white ) rd1 nxb2 re1+ ne4 nxn bxr nd6+ kd7 nf7 re8 nxbe1 b6 ne5 +kc7 and we lift our rook to h3 with a winning game.


+ Show Spoiler +
With this line, Black has absolutely no initiative and all of his pieces are god awful. White also has a massive space advantage over black.
Apart from the line listed above, I found 8... f6 Qd3 Ng5 Nxg5 Nxg5 fxg5 a3 Ba5 b4 Bb6 Bxc6 and the black bishop is trapped and a4/5 will soon follow.
hype[NZ]
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Japan412 Posts
September 09 2011 01:19 GMT
#1090
On September 09 2011 08:14 jdseemoreglass wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?

+ Show Spoiler +

There is a tendency these days to favor bishops more than knights. Virtually all of the arguments given for Nbd2 tend toward some argument about not wanting to give up a bishop for a knight. When I play blitz, the weaker opponents I play will take literally every opportunity to trade their knight for a bishop, even if there's no real thought or reasoning behind it. They think it wins material.

I think it's really a prejudice, because the strength of bishop vs. knight depends entirely on the position, ie. whether it is open or closed, the colors the central pieces occupy, etc. This game still has the potential for either.

Examples:

On September 08 2011 11:40 hype[NZ] wrote:
I agree

8.Nbd2

edit: to elaborate why 8.Nbd2 is superior to 8.Bd2:

Basically what we should aim to do is maintain the pair of bishops, which can be beneficial to us in the endgame. Hence we shouldn't allow black to trade his knight on e4 for our bishop.



On September 08 2011 11:52 Picklesicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:36 qrs wrote:
OK, pretty much what we expected. I vote 8. Nbd2 for the reasons given in this post.


For all the same reasons as qrs (and hypeNZ), I also vote

8. Nbd2

To restate:
Primarily because I support trying to hold on to our bishop pair unless there's a definite advantage to trading one away.



On September 09 2011 01:26 mastergriggy wrote:
8.Nbd2

I mean it's either that or Bd2, but I'd prefer to keep my Bishop on the board as the position is open.

Edit: Qrs, you're analysis is perfect. I just got to throw that out there haha






I don't appreciate you implying that I'm a weak player because I prefer to maintain the bishop pair in this position.

With the current pawn structure (black has an e-pawn missing) it seems unlikely that we'll be heading to a game with a closed centre, so it seems logical that it would be beneficial for us to keep both bishops on the board.

Am I wrong?
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
September 09 2011 01:24 GMT
#1091
On September 09 2011 10:14 Boozerr wrote:
8. Kh1
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 08:30 MrProphylactic wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Some interesting lines in the unconventional bb4 kf1, which now that I look at the complexities would have been another really cool novelty to spring on NG5. IT can be playable in structures like these when the a6 f1 diagonal is controlled as we do now . But I would probably turn blue in the face explaining why this is playable, based solely on aesthetic impression the move makes ( splitting the rooks , losing the castle etc . However it would combine with h4 ng5 ideas, and pushing the h pawn to h5 if possible , and lifting the rook to say rh4 or rh3 to rg3. Some really interesting positions arise from this, some of this I will provide below.
I never would have talked anybody into this though, no matter how much analysis I provided. Here are some interesting ideas to me at least . bb4 kf1? d5 qa4 winning . bb4 kf1 0-0 d5 winning. taking that into account bb4 kf1? qe7(probably best or ba5) qc2 f5 h4 0-0 qc4+ kh8 bg5 nxb hxg5 opening the h file with a nice attack .
Due to the semi-closed nature of the board The lines appear to keep the initiative for white, while avoiding any exchanges . For instance some other examples . Bb4 Kf1?! qe7 qc2 f5 (hard to find a better move than this for black here , if d5 bxc6 wins) h4 ba5 nc3 nb4 qe2 c6 bc4 d5 exd e.p. nxd qxq kxq bb3 and from here if black tries nd3 white ends up better after bg5 which is a long line in itself .
Big breath ... here we go .... nd3 bg5+ ke8 (kd7 leads to another strong position for white ) rd1 nxb2 re1+ ne4 nxn bxr nd6+ kd7 nf7 re8 nxbe1 b6 ne5 +kc7 and we lift our rook to h3 with a winning game.


+ Show Spoiler +
With this line, Black has absolutely no initiative and all of his pieces are god awful. White also has a massive space advantage over black.
Apart from the line listed above, I found 8... f6 Qd3 Ng5 Nxg5 Nxg5 fxg5 a3 Ba5 b4 Bb6 Bxc6 and the black bishop is trapped and a4/5 will soon follow.


You meant Kf1 right?

+ Show Spoiler +
Yea I looked into this move, I felt it has potenital. But at the end, I decided to go with Nbd2, because Nbd2 seems safe, but Kf1 could work also. But I don't think most people will switch to this move though...
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
hype[NZ]
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Japan412 Posts
September 09 2011 01:41 GMT
#1092
Howell actually tried the Kf1 idea against Wesley So, but it didn't really work out for him.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1587234

http://www.chess.com/article/view/howells-new-idea-by-gm-magesh-and-gm-arun
jdseemoreglass
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States3773 Posts
September 09 2011 02:09 GMT
#1093
On September 09 2011 10:19 hype[NZ] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 08:14 jdseemoreglass wrote:
On September 09 2011 07:43 Blazinghand wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Just out of curiosity (I voted for Nbd2) is there any reason Bd2 is bad?

+ Show Spoiler +

There is a tendency these days to favor bishops more than knights. Virtually all of the arguments given for Nbd2 tend toward some argument about not wanting to give up a bishop for a knight. When I play blitz, the weaker opponents I play will take literally every opportunity to trade their knight for a bishop, even if there's no real thought or reasoning behind it. They think it wins material.

I think it's really a prejudice, because the strength of bishop vs. knight depends entirely on the position, ie. whether it is open or closed, the colors the central pieces occupy, etc. This game still has the potential for either.

Examples:

On September 08 2011 11:40 hype[NZ] wrote:
I agree

8.Nbd2

edit: to elaborate why 8.Nbd2 is superior to 8.Bd2:

Basically what we should aim to do is maintain the pair of bishops, which can be beneficial to us in the endgame. Hence we shouldn't allow black to trade his knight on e4 for our bishop.



On September 08 2011 11:52 Picklesicle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2011 11:36 qrs wrote:
OK, pretty much what we expected. I vote 8. Nbd2 for the reasons given in this post.


For all the same reasons as qrs (and hypeNZ), I also vote

8. Nbd2

To restate:
Primarily because I support trying to hold on to our bishop pair unless there's a definite advantage to trading one away.



On September 09 2011 01:26 mastergriggy wrote:
8.Nbd2

I mean it's either that or Bd2, but I'd prefer to keep my Bishop on the board as the position is open.

Edit: Qrs, you're analysis is perfect. I just got to throw that out there haha






I don't appreciate you implying that I'm a weak player because I prefer to maintain the bishop pair in this position.

With the current pawn structure (black has an e-pawn missing) it seems unlikely that we'll be heading to a game with a closed centre, so it seems logical that it would be beneficial for us to keep both bishops on the board.

Am I wrong?

I never implied you are a weak player, I was simply explaining how weak players will probably be reluctant to trade a bishop for knight no matter what the position is or how it might favor us. It's kind of ingrained in people's heads now, unfortunately.
"If you want this forum to be full of half-baked philosophy discussions between pompous faggots like yourself forever, stay the course captain vanilla" - FakeSteve[TPR], 2006
hype[NZ]
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Japan412 Posts
September 09 2011 02:16 GMT
#1094
Ok then, I was just making sure.

+ Show Spoiler +
I am a weak player
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
September 09 2011 02:32 GMT
#1095
On September 09 2011 10:41 hype[NZ] wrote:
Howell actually tried the Kf1 idea against Wesley So, but it didn't really work out for him.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1587234

http://www.chess.com/article/view/howells-new-idea-by-gm-magesh-and-gm-arun


I think the position is very different here...

I don't think those games will do any good referencing, but they might share same ideas.
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
qrs
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3637 Posts
September 09 2011 02:56 GMT
#1096
Votes

8. Nbd2: 24 (qrs, hype[NZ], Picklesickle, itsjustatank, BaronFel, Jumbled, EvilNalu, TNT0677, Babyfactory, mcc, Malinor, Malli, chesshaha, Snarfs, mastergriggy, Sm3agol, enigmaticcam, Raysalis, MrProphylactic, Blazinghand, wuBu, imBLIND, Ikari, stormtemplar)
8. Qd2: 1 (jdseemoretroll)
8. Kf1: 1 (Boozerr)
[image loading]
'As per the American Heart Association, the beat of the Bee Gees song "Stayin' Alive" provides an ideal rhythm in terms of beats per minute to use for hands-only CPR. One can also hum Queen's "Another One Bites The Dust".' —Wikipedia
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
September 09 2011 03:12 GMT
#1097
On September 09 2011 11:32 chesshaha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2011 10:41 hype[NZ] wrote:
Howell actually tried the Kf1 idea against Wesley So, but it didn't really work out for him.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1587234

http://www.chess.com/article/view/howells-new-idea-by-gm-magesh-and-gm-arun


I think the position is very different here...

I don't think those games will do any good referencing, but they might share same ideas.


Found a game of with Kf1 with the same position so far, for anyone who's interested.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1132727
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
lixlix
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States482 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-09-09 03:18:36
September 09 2011 03:13 GMT
#1098
In the current position,

+ Show Spoiler +
Kf1doesn't seem good at all. The reference game was very much closed and white's queenside is almost completely developed.

In our current game, our queenside is completely undeveloped with black having strong knight post and bishop controlling a diagonal. Can't afford to further fall behind in tempo and allow black to strengthen his position. In addition, with the semiopen center, we want our H rook to develop on the F or E file and Kf1 makes it extremely difficult to do that
MrProphylactic
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
296 Posts
September 09 2011 03:22 GMT
#1099
Switching my vote to Kf`1

+ Show Spoiler +
Along with the lines I posted in my last post I have been looking at others , and I just cannot seem to find a plan for black that is easy to play, but it should also be noted some of the plans for us can get pretty tricky if our rooks stay split, So someone was saying they found some games with this move ? . I was thinking I may have invented a new move in this position, guess not . I came up with it on my own though, trying to find moves NG5 may not be versed in . The last attempt qe2 passed us by .
"The Beauty of a move is not in its appearance, but the thought behind it" Nimzovitch
lixlix
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States482 Posts
September 09 2011 03:22 GMT
#1100
that Steinitz game baffles me.
Prev 1 53 54 55 56 57 140 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#61
WardiTV655
TKL 139
Rex98
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Reynor 323
Harstem 127
TKL 120
ProTech113
Rex 91
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 41115
Calm 9566
Horang2 1756
Jaedong 769
Soma 686
EffOrt 452
Stork 414
firebathero 335
Larva 260
Rush 190
[ Show more ]
Pusan 184
ZerO 161
Zeus 142
ToSsGirL 94
Killer 93
Mind 69
yabsab 50
Sea.KH 50
Liquid`Ret 36
scan(afreeca) 27
Icarus 22
Noble 18
Hm[arnc] 13
NaDa 9
ivOry 9
Dota 2
Dendi536
XcaliburYe184
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1984
shoxiejesuss733
x6flipin629
allub175
oskar122
Other Games
B2W.Neo734
Pyrionflax420
crisheroes338
Fuzer 299
hiko30
QueenE19
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream8234
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream4523
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 76
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1655
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
4h 3m
Replay Cast
10h 3m
ChoboTeamLeague
12h 3m
WardiTV Korean Royale
23h 3m
BSL: GosuLeague
1d 8h
The PondCast
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Reynor
Maru vs SHIN
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
IPSL
5 days
Julia vs Artosis
JDConan vs DragOn
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
IPSL
6 days
StRyKeR vs OldBoy
Sziky vs Tarson
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.