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TL Chess Match 4 - Page 28

Forum Index > General Games
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enigmaticcam
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States280 Posts
August 16 2011 20:44 GMT
#541
On August 17 2011 04:31 Blazinghand wrote:
4. O-O


+ Show Spoiler [._.] +

So... I mean I'm pretty sure the response here is to castle to guard the pawn right?

Okay I'm not meaning to hate here, but why is there a group of people (maybe not always the SAME people) who want to play c3 on every move? SERIOUSLY. It's like Nader, always getting votes and taking away from the real election. It's an acceptable move for once, finally...

But on topic, the book response to classical defense is to castle. It guards the f pawn with something besides the King and we need to castle anyways so it's not a waste of a move.


+ Show Spoiler +
c3 is certainly a plausible move in this case. In fact, from the few games I've checked, for this position it seems that c3 is played anyways, whether it's played now or later. See: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=460727&move=4&moves=e4.e5.Nf3.Nc6.Bb5.Bc5&nodes=21720.21721.21722.21723.21724.460727
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
August 16 2011 20:47 GMT
#542
On August 17 2011 05:44 enigmaticcam wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 04:31 Blazinghand wrote:
4. O-O


+ Show Spoiler [._.] +

So... I mean I'm pretty sure the response here is to castle to guard the pawn right?

Okay I'm not meaning to hate here, but why is there a group of people (maybe not always the SAME people) who want to play c3 on every move? SERIOUSLY. It's like Nader, always getting votes and taking away from the real election. It's an acceptable move for once, finally...

But on topic, the book response to classical defense is to castle. It guards the f pawn with something besides the King and we need to castle anyways so it's not a waste of a move.


+ Show Spoiler +
c3 is certainly a plausible move in this case. In fact, from the few games I've checked, for this position it seems that c3 is played anyways, whether it's played now or later. See: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=460727&move=4&moves=e4.e5.Nf3.Nc6.Bb5.Bc5&nodes=21720.21721.21722.21723.21724.460727


+ Show Spoiler +
That's fair, but there's a big difference between playing now and playing later. O-O is more common, and I consider it to be a more solid move for defending our kingside. I'd rather shore this up now and play c3 later.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Chezus
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 21:19:09
August 16 2011 20:57 GMT
#543
4. C3
+ Show Spoiler +

As pointed out earlier, c3 is the proper response to this move. 5. D4 is really strong.


Edit: failed
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
August 16 2011 20:59 GMT
#544
On August 17 2011 05:57 Chezus wrote:
3. C3
+ Show Spoiler +

As pointed out earlier, c3 is the proper response to this move. 4. D4 is really strong.


Unfortunately 3. C3 is not a valid move as this is move 4.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
wuBu
Profile Joined February 2011
United States83 Posts
August 16 2011 21:05 GMT
#545
Ahh the Classical defence...hmm. I say 4. c3

+ Show Spoiler +
Reason: I want a more direct approach first because personally it doesn't matter all that much to me if we play 4. c3 or 4. O-O because either move is good in this position. If we play 4. O-O, our next move will probably be 5. c3 anyways. And vice-versa (4. c3 followed by 5. O-O before our eventual d4 advance).
"It's the way that I'm living that makes me who I am. It's the things I do that you wouldn't understand."
enigmaticcam
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States280 Posts
August 16 2011 21:11 GMT
#546
4. c3

+ Show Spoiler +
For now, at least. I don't play 1. e4, so this is all foreign to me, but I'm doing as much research as I can. I feel that O-O and c3 are the two only considerations in this position, and both no doubt will be played. However, I like 4. c3 as it prevents 4...Nd4 which would almost certainly lead to early simplification.
Chezus
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands427 Posts
August 16 2011 21:18 GMT
#547
On August 17 2011 05:59 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 05:57 Chezus wrote:
3. C3
+ Show Spoiler +

As pointed out earlier, c3 is the proper response to this move. 4. D4 is really strong.


Unfortunately 3. C3 is not a valid move as this is move 4.


lol, d'oh sorry. Meant 4. C3

+ Show Spoiler +
And 5. D4
Sorry about that
shackes
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany148 Posts
August 16 2011 21:19 GMT
#548
4. O-O

+ Show Spoiler +
Basically a coinflip between this and 4. c3, but this is what I'm most comfortable with.
Raysalis
Profile Joined July 2010
Malaysia1034 Posts
August 16 2011 21:23 GMT
#549
4. Nxe5

+ Show Spoiler +


The move that I normally play against the classical. Black usually play the following 2 moves.
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 Bxd4
6. Qxd4
and i like the white position

or

4. ... Bxf2
5. Kxf2 Nxe5
6. Rf1
and black can try several tactical lines but i think its mostly good for white (in my opinion :p)

I think the main move in this position is 4. O-O with the idea to play c3 then d4. 4. c3 just transpose to the 4. O-O line except if black play 4 .... Nd4 after 4.O-O, where the best move is probably 5.Nxd4 Bxd4 6. c3

After 4. O-O Nf6
5. c3 usually black will play 5. ... O-O but I cant remember what white should do if black just take the pawn with 5.... Nxe4 since white usually play Re1 in this kind of position but it doesn't work here because of Bxf2. If white plays 6. d4 exd4 7. cxd4 Bb6 8. Re1 d5 it looks like black should be okay here and i dont like white d4 pawn.

:)
indigoawareness
Profile Joined October 2010
Slovakia273 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 21:29:01
August 16 2011 21:26 GMT
#550
4. Nxe

+ Show Spoiler +
4.... Nxe 5. d4 forking the nite and bishop. Seems like a pretty simple trick. Of course he won't fall for it but seems to me like we just scooped up a free pawn. I haven't had to much time to go over counterplay so I'll update later when I have more time to think about it. Feel free to tell me why this wouldn't work.


edit: lol @ ninja above me who beat me to it
To sleep, perchance to dream.
noclaninator
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada19 Posts
August 16 2011 21:26 GMT
#551
Okay here we go. Let the campaign for a weird move begin...

+ Show Spoiler +
4. b4. This move challenges the bishop's position (think Evan's gambit). If this pawn offering is taken then we play c3 followed by d4 gaining time and challenging the center. Otherwise, we are telling that bishop to gtfo. It is an interesting move to me.


My vote: 4. b4
My country is the world and my religion is to do good.
tyr
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France1686 Posts
August 16 2011 21:28 GMT
#552
4. Bxc6

+ Show Spoiler +
Ng5's bishop doesn't cause any direct threat to our stuff. Let's keep on going with the 3.Bb5 thing many of you were excited about and take his knight. Then as he'll likely take the bishop, we take his central pawn with the knight and weaken his center. Then we deal with the bishop.
Unless that's a very bad idea for some reason that I don't see.
"I'm always reminded of how manly Jaedong is every time I see him." -Bisu
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
August 16 2011 21:34 GMT
#553
On August 17 2011 06:23 Raysalis wrote:
4. Nxe5

+ Show Spoiler +


The move that I normally play against the classical. Black usually play the following 2 moves.
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 Bxd4
6. Qxd4
and i like the white position

or

4. ... Bxf2
5. Kxf2 Nxe5
6. Rf1
and black can try several tactical lines but i think its mostly good for white (in my opinion :p)

I think the main move in this position is 4. O-O with the idea to play c3 then d4. 4. c3 just transpose to the 4. O-O line except if black play 4 .... Nd4 after 4.O-O, where the best move is probably 5.Nxd4 Bxd4 6. c3

After 4. O-O Nf6
5. c3 usually black will play 5. ... O-O but I cant remember what white should do if black just take the pawn with 5.... Nxe4 since white usually play Re1 in this kind of position but it doesn't work here because of Bxf2. If white plays 6. d4 exd4 7. cxd4 Bb6 8. Re1 d5 it looks like black should be okay here and i dont like white d4 pawn.




I don't think 4. Nxe5 is a good move...
+ Show Spoiler +

Have you considered
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 c6
6. Be2 Bd6
7. dxe5 Bxe5

Black has the upper hand here imo.
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
CountChocula
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2068 Posts
August 16 2011 21:36 GMT
#554
Out of curiosity, what was the outcome of the previous 3 chess matches here at TL?
Writer我会让他们连馒头都吃不到 Those championships owed me over the years, I will take them back one by one.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
August 16 2011 21:40 GMT
#555
On August 17 2011 06:34 chesshaha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 06:23 Raysalis wrote:
4. Nxe5

+ Show Spoiler +


The move that I normally play against the classical. Black usually play the following 2 moves.
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 Bxd4
6. Qxd4
and i like the white position

or

4. ... Bxf2
5. Kxf2 Nxe5
6. Rf1
and black can try several tactical lines but i think its mostly good for white (in my opinion :p)

I think the main move in this position is 4. O-O with the idea to play c3 then d4. 4. c3 just transpose to the 4. O-O line except if black play 4 .... Nd4 after 4.O-O, where the best move is probably 5.Nxd4 Bxd4 6. c3

After 4. O-O Nf6
5. c3 usually black will play 5. ... O-O but I cant remember what white should do if black just take the pawn with 5.... Nxe4 since white usually play Re1 in this kind of position but it doesn't work here because of Bxf2. If white plays 6. d4 exd4 7. cxd4 Bb6 8. Re1 d5 it looks like black should be okay here and i dont like white d4 pawn.




I don't think 4. Nxe5 is a good move...
+ Show Spoiler +

Have you considered
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 c6
6. Be2 Bd6
7. dxe5 Bxe5

Black has the upper hand here imo.


you guys really need to read chesshaha's spoiler and change your moves. I agree with him entirely.

+ Show Spoiler +
The fork won't work, we'll just go down a pawn and position. 5 ... c6 crushes us so lets cast votes for c3 or O-O please.

When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
chesshaha
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1117 Posts
August 16 2011 21:53 GMT
#556
On August 17 2011 06:36 CountChocula wrote:
Out of curiosity, what was the outcome of the previous 3 chess matches here at TL?


After a little research I don't think the first 3 TL chess matches was ever finished
They stopped in the end game, and was not resumed for one reason or another. But TL is stronger than ever now, we have so many more active members, so I believe we could finish this match!
Ng5 been on TL for awhile now, and did many chess streams.

Go to this link to view those threads:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=TL Chess Match
"Hopefully you're not the real TLO so it's not casted" - SpecialK
Raysalis
Profile Joined July 2010
Malaysia1034 Posts
August 16 2011 22:00 GMT
#557
On August 17 2011 06:34 chesshaha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 06:23 Raysalis wrote:
4. Nxe5

+ Show Spoiler +


The move that I normally play against the classical. Black usually play the following 2 moves.
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 Bxd4
6. Qxd4
and i like the white position

or

4. ... Bxf2
5. Kxf2 Nxe5
6. Rf1
and black can try several tactical lines but i think its mostly good for white (in my opinion :p)

I think the main move in this position is 4. O-O with the idea to play c3 then d4. 4. c3 just transpose to the 4. O-O line except if black play 4 .... Nd4 after 4.O-O, where the best move is probably 5.Nxd4 Bxd4 6. c3

After 4. O-O Nf6
5. c3 usually black will play 5. ... O-O but I cant remember what white should do if black just take the pawn with 5.... Nxe4 since white usually play Re1 in this kind of position but it doesn't work here because of Bxf2. If white plays 6. d4 exd4 7. cxd4 Bb6 8. Re1 d5 it looks like black should be okay here and i dont like white d4 pawn.




I don't think 4. Nxe5 is a good move...
+ Show Spoiler +

Have you considered
4. ... Nxe5
5. d4 c6
6. Be2 Bd6
7. dxe5 Bxe5

Black has the upper hand here imo.


Hmm, you have a point, i think i will change to 4. O-O

+ Show Spoiler +


Actually found a game i played in that line a while back which end in a draw and it does looks good for black. I think the position is level after that move order and obviously not what white wants since black easily counter break with d5 and level the position. I wonder why my past opponents didnt play this way :p.

Dont really remember any theory from the classical main line though other than white wants to go c3 and d4.

:)
CountChocula
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada2068 Posts
August 16 2011 22:02 GMT
#558
On August 17 2011 06:53 chesshaha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2011 06:36 CountChocula wrote:
Out of curiosity, what was the outcome of the previous 3 chess matches here at TL?


After a little research I don't think the first 3 TL chess matches was ever finished
They stopped in the end game, and was not resumed for one reason or another. But TL is stronger than ever now, we have so many more active members, so I believe we could finish this match!
Ng5 been on TL for awhile now, and did many chess streams.

Go to this link to view those threads:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=TL Chess Match

Thanks and good luck!
Writer我会让他们连馒头都吃不到 Those championships owed me over the years, I will take them back one by one.
Epithet
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States840 Posts
August 16 2011 22:04 GMT
#559
c3
YellOw, Reach, & Nal_Ra Hwaiting!!
ParanoiaHoT
Profile Joined August 2010
United States103 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-16 22:15:53
August 16 2011 22:15 GMT
#560
4. 0-0
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