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On July 12 2011 22:22 Zax19 wrote:I have no problem with the game mechanics aside from "A goes to kill the dragon, gets ganked and B kills the dragon". Look at any MMORPG, the first thing a hardcore player does is getting the best UI mod possible. I don't see that in LoL, at least not in LoL broadcasts and it tells me that the people involved don't think about it "the right way", they're missing this crucial aspect. Once I can watch/play LoL without the effects overload, UI and overlapping problems we can start talking about which game has better gameplay. If this is about viewers then make it “watchable”.
I find this very questionable.
1. You rarely get ganked in competitive play while doing drake because of CV / Wards if 1 player dies it is worth it as drake give more gold.
2. The most hardcore player in WoW play without PvP addons at all. Because that is not allowed at live tournaments.
3. I find it really questionable that you think blocking and overlapping is wrong as blocking skillshots is something you learn to do really early.
If you don't like the game that is fine, its not supposed to be DotA. It is less mechanics based than DotA but it slightly more teambased. Calling something flawed design because you do not like it is like complain about 2 rax because you don't like getting bunker rushed as Zerg.
LoL is competitive and balanced, its kinda iffy as an Esport but if it gets a huge fan base it will carry it through it.
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I feel like this dilutes the gaming community and will cause outsiders to associate a skill-less game like LoL with SC2. Fact of the matter is HoN to LoL and BW to SC2 are not valid comparisons because sc2 was not simplified as much as LoL in the conversion process. Not to mention past BW pros like Idra and Ret can hardly compete against newer players in macro games, supporting the fact that the apm requirements to play this game at a top level are comparable to BW (to some extent).
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On July 13 2011 06:42 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 22:22 Zax19 wrote:I have no problem with the game mechanics aside from "A goes to kill the dragon, gets ganked and B kills the dragon". Look at any MMORPG, the first thing a hardcore player does is getting the best UI mod possible. I don't see that in LoL, at least not in LoL broadcasts and it tells me that the people involved don't think about it "the right way", they're missing this crucial aspect. Once I can watch/play LoL without the effects overload, UI and overlapping problems we can start talking about which game has better gameplay. If this is about viewers then make it “watchable”. I find this very questionable. 1. You rarely get ganked in competitive play while doing drake because of CV / Wards if 1 player dies it is worth it as drake give more gold. 2. The most hardcore player in WoW play without PvP addons at all. Because that is not allowed at live tournaments. 3. I find it really questionable that you think blocking and overlapping is wrong as blocking skillshots is something you learn to do really early. If you don't like the game that is fine, its not supposed to be DotA. It is less mechanics based than DotA but it slightly more teambased. Calling something flawed design because you do not like it is like complain about 2 rax because you don't like getting bunker rushed as Zerg. LoL is competitive and balanced, its kinda iffy as an Esport but if it gets a huge fan base it will carry it through it.
He made a funny  Balanced hihi
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On July 13 2011 07:08 sennen wrote:
I feel like this dilutes the gaming community and will cause outsiders to associate a skill-less game like LoL with SC2. Fact of the matter is HoN to LoL and BW to SC2 are not valid comparisons because sc2 was not simplified as much as LoL in the conversion process. Not to mention past BW pros like Idra and Ret can hardly compete against newer players in macro games, supporting the fact that the apm requirements to play this game at a top level are comparable to BW (to some extent).
Comparing LoL to DotA is incredibly similiar to BW to SC2. In BW you micro was worse, it was harder to control units and macro. This means that you put more into micro in SC2. LoL is exactly the same you put more into decision making and less into mechanics. SEA has former DotA teams that did not make it through the first round of dreamhack in LoL.
Hating a game for it being mechanically easy is crazy as CS 1.6 is easier mechanically than Quake live does not mean that CS is any less of a competitive game. Chess has 0 mechanics yet is very very competitive.
On July 13 2011 07:31 Shadowcloak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 06:42 Eppa! wrote:On July 12 2011 22:22 Zax19 wrote:I have no problem with the game mechanics aside from "A goes to kill the dragon, gets ganked and B kills the dragon". Look at any MMORPG, the first thing a hardcore player does is getting the best UI mod possible. I don't see that in LoL, at least not in LoL broadcasts and it tells me that the people involved don't think about it "the right way", they're missing this crucial aspect. Once I can watch/play LoL without the effects overload, UI and overlapping problems we can start talking about which game has better gameplay. If this is about viewers then make it “watchable”. I find this very questionable. 1. You rarely get ganked in competitive play while doing drake because of CV / Wards if 1 player dies it is worth it as drake give more gold. 2. The most hardcore player in WoW play without PvP addons at all. Because that is not allowed at live tournaments. 3. I find it really questionable that you think blocking and overlapping is wrong as blocking skillshots is something you learn to do really early. If you don't like the game that is fine, its not supposed to be DotA. It is less mechanics based than DotA but it slightly more teambased. Calling something flawed design because you do not like it is like complain about 2 rax because you don't like getting bunker rushed as Zerg. LoL is competitive and balanced, its kinda iffy as an Esport but if it gets a huge fan base it will carry it through it. He made a funny Balanced hihi
Oh please CS has like 6 viable weapons and maps that going 4-12 as terrorists is a good score (looking at Train) . Balance does not mean that every champions is viable in competitive play. Sure Ashe and Rumble dominated dreamhack but every side could pick/ban them and they are not outrageously imba anyway. Unlike Starcraft every thing is for every team. Draft isn't something you have in the game for lulz.
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pretty funny this thread is still open
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On July 13 2011 07:36 Eppa! wrote:
Comparing LoL to DotA is incredibly similiar to BW to SC2. In BW you micro was worse, it was harder to control units and macro. This means that you put more into micro in SC2. LoL is exactly the same you put more into decision making and less into mechanics. SEA has former DotA teams that did not make it through the first round of dreamhack in LoL.
Hating a game for it being mechanically easy is crazy as CS 1.6 is easier mechanically than Quake live does not mean that CS is any less of a competitive game. Chess has 0 mechanics yet is very very competitive.
I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. SC2 late game is actually harder on some levels because of how units bunch together, meaning you can't put everything on 1 hotkey - just like BW except you also have creep/injects/etc. depending on race in addition to what was required from BW. Funny that you mentioned chess because it's very similar to starcraft in regards to decision making...but LoL? Not so much. The ONLY thing LoL has going for it in terms of skill is teamwork, which is pretty pathetic for an e-sport imo.
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Good for LoL, I was very impressed by its numbers at dreamhack.
Personally i hate these dota games, you can't tell what the hell is going on most of the time. can't tell who's on which team, what spells belong to who. you can't even tell which team is winning until the end. unless you play these games, it's not worth watching.
Starcraft 2 is different, even Lindsey Sporr (who hadn't even heard of SC2 until NASL) said she was hella excited about the matches at NASL even though she knew nothing about the game.
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On July 13 2011 08:12 sennen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 07:36 Eppa! wrote:
Comparing LoL to DotA is incredibly similiar to BW to SC2. In BW you micro was worse, it was harder to control units and macro. This means that you put more into micro in SC2. LoL is exactly the same you put more into decision making and less into mechanics. SEA has former DotA teams that did not make it through the first round of dreamhack in LoL.
Hating a game for it being mechanically easy is crazy as CS 1.6 is easier mechanically than Quake live does not mean that CS is any less of a competitive game. Chess has 0 mechanics yet is very very competitive.
I don't think you have any idea what you're talking about. SC2 late game is actually harder on some levels because of how units bunch together, meaning you can't put everything on 1 hotkey - just like BW except you also have creep/injects/etc. depending on race in addition to what was required from BW. Funny that you mentioned chess because it's very similar to starcraft in regards to decision making...but LoL? Not so much. The ONLY thing LoL has going for it in terms of skill is teamwork, which is pretty pathetic for an e-sport imo.
Compared to DotA LoL actually has very tight timing windows for pushing bot lane when Baron is up which DotA does not. Nobody professionally playing either BW or SC2 would say BW is easier lategame than SC2, splitting marauders vs storms is by no means as hard as microing hydras vs storms what makes BW truly more mechanically different is that you can not hotkey production or move rally points as easy.
I put up chess as an example because you are complaining that LoL is to mechanically easy. Yet you draw something completely different from it.
Decision making is different in LoL but it a lot harder mechanically than Chess and your first post is complaining that "lol is to easy compared to SC2".
Even if it is different does it matter in the slightest? LoL has exactly the same kind of decision making as DotA with a few elements removed and some added. This kind of argument is very similar as saying Esports isn't competitive because its not as physically limited as normal sports.
People need to really care less, if you don't like it don't watch. If people want to watch competitive LoL and its profitable for the people that are doing it then let it be. I don't find LoL as fun to watch as SC2 which I do not like watching as much as CS1.6 which I do not like watching as much as BW which I do not like watching as much as Quake Live (which IMO goes from easiest to hardest games), doesn't mean the other games are less competitive.
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I read the first paragraph because I could care less but fyi. You have the option to split the marauders against psi storm or could have predicted they would make high templar and make ghosts to EMP the templar or you could send two dropships to their base hoping to stall their push long enough to make said ghosts. Albeit the terran could be going mech so it may not apply. This is called strategy my friend
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u mad bro?
User was warned for this post
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This seems like a good idea.
At first i thought that LoL was way too casual to be entertaining enough to watch, but with all the spectator GUI updates it's pretty awesome. Especially if you are a player yourself.
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United States23455 Posts
Eh, I tried giving LoL a try at Dreamhack when there was downtime with the SC2 tournament, but I just wasn't that enthralled. I thought the commentating was pretty good and made a casual person like me feel like the game being played was important, but it just wasn't very exciting. Even when I had no clue what was going on, and it was in Korean, I thought Brood War was super fun to watch I also tried to give the community a try, but the LoL forums are literally 95% threads that are:
What if the Champions switched sexes
What kind of car would the Champions be?
What Champion couple is the best?
The last Champion you played with is now your girlfriend. What do you do?
What color would your favorite Champion be?
If there was porn of your Champion, what would the porn be and what would it be like?
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Tattled on in a LoL thread....lol
User was temp banned for this post.
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On July 13 2011 09:33 Fionn wrote:
Eh, I tried giving LoL a try at Dreamhack when there was downtime with the SC2 tournament, but I just wasn't that enthralled. I thought the commentating was pretty good and made a casual person like me feel like the game being played was important, but it just wasn't very exciting. Even when I had no clue what was going on, and it was in Korean, I thought Brood War was super fun to watch I also tried to give the community a try, but the LoL forums are literally 95% threads that are:
What if the Champions switched sexes
What kind of car would the Champions be?
What Champion couple is the best?
The last Champion you played with is now your girlfriend. What do you do?
What color would your favorite Champion be?
If there was porn of your Champion, what would the porn be and what would it be like?
I guess that you haven't seen this:
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=16
or this
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2
or maybe you have only seen this:
http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=19
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On July 13 2011 09:33 Fionn wrote:
Eh, I tried giving LoL a try at Dreamhack when there was downtime with the SC2 tournament, but I just wasn't that enthralled. I thought the commentating was pretty good and made a casual person like me feel like the game being played was important, but it just wasn't very exciting. Even when I had no clue what was going on, and it was in Korean, I thought Brood War was super fun to watch I also tried to give the community a try, but the LoL forums are literally 95% threads that are:
What if the Champions switched sexes
What kind of car would the Champions be?
What Champion couple is the best?
The last Champion you played with is now your girlfriend. What do you do?
What color would your favorite Champion be?
If there was porn of your Champion, what would the porn be and what would it be like?
And if you want to sample the SC2 community, go to the battle.net forums if that's your barometer.
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On July 13 2011 08:13 LastDance wrote:
Good for LoL, I was very impressed by its numbers at dreamhack.
Personally i hate these dota games, you can't tell what the hell is going on most of the time. can't tell who's on which team, what spells belong to who. you can't even tell which team is winning until the end. unless you play these games, it's not worth watching.
Starcraft 2 is different, even Lindsey Sporr (who hadn't even heard of SC2 until NASL) said she was hella excited about the matches at NASL even though she knew nothing about the game.
1. colors can be changed to something like a red/blue setup
2. whoever controls the map more and has more kills, towers, etc. this is very simple to understand
what is not so simple is the nuances of the games, because there are tons of different characters and abilities and interactions isnt known to most players so even first time watchers wont understand, and this really takes a skilled commentator to make this exciting, i know of no equivalent commentator in HoN or DotA, the games i know, like day[9].
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United States23455 Posts
On July 13 2011 09:40 Ettick wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2011 09:33 Fionn wrote:
Eh, I tried giving LoL a try at Dreamhack when there was downtime with the SC2 tournament, but I just wasn't that enthralled. I thought the commentating was pretty good and made a casual person like me feel like the game being played was important, but it just wasn't very exciting. Even when I had no clue what was going on, and it was in Korean, I thought Brood War was super fun to watch I also tried to give the community a try, but the LoL forums are literally 95% threads that are:
What if the Champions switched sexes
What kind of car would the Champions be?
What Champion couple is the best?
The last Champion you played with is now your girlfriend. What do you do?
What color would your favorite Champion be?
If there was porn of your Champion, what would the porn be and what would it be like?
I guess that you haven't seen this: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=16or this http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=2or maybe you have only seen this: http://www.leagueoflegends.com/board/forumdisplay.php?f=19
Uhm...the second link you showed me. The first thread I see:
You're now roomates with the last champ you played. How bad a roomie are they?
Not saying it's a bad community. I'm sure there are good sections, but from what I've been exposed to, it's not really my scene. I'll give LoL a chance again at MLG. I don't hate it or anything.
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I started LoL a while ago, great fun, I love playing both Sc2 and LoL, good to see this game will be at mlg aswell as sc2!
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On July 13 2011 06:42 Eppa! wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2011 22:22 Zax19 wrote:I have no problem with the game mechanics aside from "A goes to kill the dragon, gets ganked and B kills the dragon". Look at any MMORPG, the first thing a hardcore player does is getting the best UI mod possible. I don't see that in LoL, at least not in LoL broadcasts and it tells me that the people involved don't think about it "the right way", they're missing this crucial aspect. Once I can watch/play LoL without the effects overload, UI and overlapping problems we can start talking about which game has better gameplay. If this is about viewers then make it “watchable”. I find this very questionable. 1. You rarely get ganked in competitive play while doing drake because of CV / Wards if 1 player dies it is worth it as drake give more gold. 2. The most hardcore player in WoW play without PvP addons at all. Because that is not allowed at live tournaments. 3. I find it really questionable that you think blocking and overlapping is wrong as blocking skillshots is something you learn to do really early. If you don't like the game that is fine, its not supposed to be DotA. It is less mechanics based than DotA but it slightly more teambased. Calling something flawed design because you do not like it is like complain about 2 rax because you don't like getting bunker rushed as Zerg. LoL is competitive and balanced, its kinda iffy as an Esport but if it gets a huge fan base it will carry it through it.
I said UI addons, you're not going to use the default unit frames, health bars and such, it's inefficient.
And see http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=242134¤tpage=19#376
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EPT
