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Noocta
France12578 Posts
It went okay, I took 2 of them, he took 2. We're kind of equal. Beforehand, I'm gonna say that it's one of the most frustrating match up to play EVER, but I'm gonna try to get the most meaningful of the 4 and upload it somewhere. I'm actually curious of what the people here can say to help me improve since most of you are definitely at a higher level. | ||
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Ophe
Sweden388 Posts
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On July 06 2013 22:15 WindWolf wrote: In other news, the Swedish Viper-player Chewiie is also coming over to EVO. Make me really happy as a Swede http://evo2013.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/ssf4_c16.html Here's his pool. Tougher or easier route than Popi? | ||
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Mannerheim
766 Posts
On July 07 2013 14:26 WindWolf wrote: http://evo2013.s3.amazonaws.com/brackets/ssf4_c16.html Here's his pool. Tougher or easier route than Popi? I'd say he has a chance to qualify from losers, as Hsien will most likely win the pool (probably the best Yun in US). | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
I've got Latif in round 1 of SF4, Dogura in round 2 of P4A, and my Injustice pool is at 8am. gg. | ||
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YulyaVolkova
United Kingdom95 Posts
I seem to have an uber mental roadblock. Can't beat Bison (Dictator). Played the game for about 2 years now, feel like im alright, can beat some pretty reasonable players and hold my own/go even in long sets vs 5k+pp guys that quite clearly know what they're doing. All this goes to shit once I play against a few characters, but none more so than Bison. My winrates vs Bisons compared to their skill level are a weird sin graph where I beat really really scrubby Bisons, lose horribly vs Bisons that know a bit more, are still fairly shite, but just kinda do shit, then actually do okay (even maybe) vs fairly highly ranked Bisons (15kbp+) that play patiently/carefully, but lose horribly to some too, depending on the Bison. So my main problem is this weird kinda middle ground where im playing a Bison that knows what buttons to press, knows not to do one thing too much and generally just wants to DO STUFF, but theyre quite clearly nowhere near as technical/smart as an actually good Bison. I just don't really get the matchup at all, and by matchup I mean almost anyone vs Bison. Ive played Viper, ERyu, Ryu, Balrog, Akuma, Sakura, Seth, Cammy and Gouken to an okay level and I feel uncomfortable vs Bison with everyone but Cammy, who I feel fairly indifferent against him with. Im by no means an expert with any of these characters so if one of these matchups is decently favourable for the character I play because of some specific mechanic I may not using correctly, fair enough, im more looking for general stuff that I can apply to almost any char vs Bison. Without hopefully sounding too emo, it basically just feels like Bison can press whatever the fuck he wants and the only time I get to press anything is if I read correctly the specific option hes going to choose to do. To give an example - headstomp. This is really, really fucking good. BUT I can punish it reasonably heavily with forward dash on reaction to make it whiff->punish. I cannot do this however unless im literally sitting there (or wobbling about) specifically watching for headstomp. If im concentrating on any other aspect of the game at all, and he headstomps - boom, free (significant) chip and if I threw a fireball or something, decent damage. Another example, say he is somehow close to me, made me block a few shorts, stopped, and now we're kinda in a nobody has frame advantage type situation. As far as I can tell, him light scissoring there beats absolutely fucking everything I can do other than block or 1)neutral/back jump depending on distance where I land on his head, or 2)random mashed uppercut which obviously isnt viable. If I block, its unpunishable, and we continue to be in a situation where hes the same distance away from me and can just scissor again, or not, or do things that punish neutral jumps etc. However, if I do say 'hes going to headstomp, I can feel it', and watch for it, do nothing, then react do my punish, I get really good damage. If he scissors, I take chip, im in the same situation again, NOW is he gonna headstomp? Another random scissors that I can't do anything about because I didn't specifically pre-emptive neutral jump, which would have lost to headstomp which is what I was reading. He dash attempts a throw, but I tech. The attempt was free though, because me attempting to press random normals to interrupt this kinda dash throw attempt is insane considering he can just scissors again and beat all of them with very little risk. I manage to find a spot to backdash away, woo! He follows me and starts to spam stand roundhouse slightly outside of regular footsie range. This beats like everything ive ever pressed and seems fast enough to be almost impossible to focus crumple, sick. Better back the fuck away. Whoa wait shit I landed a sweep. Omfg, pressure. Do setup, guess wrong OS, take damage and hes out. Alternatively, he doesn't wake up with anything (what random midlevel Bison does this), I do some random blockstring. Can't throw him, because mashed Bison jab+shorts are ludicrously good at stopping throws. Can't really frametrap either unless youre uber precise with your frametraps and he happens to press a short in the frame you want instead of a couple of frames later. But, you go for a frametrap anyway, because how the fuck else are you gonna get damage. He EX Psychos, which the vast majority of chars can't punish in any meaningful way when its done point blank. Hes out again. Sadface. Turned into a bit of a story! Hopefully entertaining. I know theres lots of things I do badly, like for example one thing ive picked up on and tried to improve over the last 6 months or so is my recognising the exact moments he does and does not have charge. Eg. before I wouldn't even consider the fact that he can't do his specials if hes wobbling about a bit outside footsie range looking for stand roundhouses - now I do and it helps, but doesn't stop the fact that stand roundhouse beats everything I try anyway :o(. Anyway gone on too long, hopefully someone can give me some advice that hasn't already been said in matchup threads for X vs Bison because ive read them for most characters and nothing has really made this twig for me. <3 | ||
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rapidash88
United States194 Posts
On July 07 2013 21:44 YulyaVolkova wrote: Anyway gone on too long, hopefully someone can give me some advice that hasn't already been said in matchup threads for X vs Bison because ive read them for most characters and nothing has really made this twig for me. I'd be interested to see what gets said, I've been using Bison since I had SF4 on Xbox, and the past month have been playing more competitively on PC on SSF4:AE. I will say Cammy is one of my most annoying matches. However, I'm really only still climbing up from the depths of D ratings right now, so I won't try to give much advice. I think Bison is very easily punished when he whiffs almost all his moves, moreso than other charecters, and his EX Physco Driver is his one get out of jail free card that is almost necessary for Bison and how he is played. | ||
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rapidash88
United States194 Posts
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On July 08 2013 12:55 rapidash88 wrote: To echo someone else on the thread, its too bad I will probably quit SF4 soon thanks to the awful match making system. Couldn't agree more on this. The matchmaking in this game isn't very good at times, and I lose more than I win online (according to the game I have a 23.49% GFWL win-rate), but most important of all, I'm still having fun while I play the game. So try to have fun while you play. I'm maining Juri, and the MU against Ken isn't my best, but Juri - Ken is probably one of the most fun things I can play | ||
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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
On July 07 2013 21:44 YulyaVolkova wrote: I need halp :o(. Hopefully someone like Fakesteve can offer some words of wisdom, but to be honest almost anyone remotely competent can probably help me in this matter with their own experience. I seem to have an uber mental roadblock. Can't beat Bison (Dictator). Played the game for about 2 years now, feel like im alright, can beat some pretty reasonable players and hold my own/go even in long sets vs 5k+pp guys that quite clearly know what they're doing. All this goes to shit once I play against a few characters, but none more so than Bison. My winrates vs Bisons compared to their skill level are a weird sin graph where I beat really really scrubby Bisons, lose horribly vs Bisons that know a bit more, are still fairly shite, but just kinda do shit, then actually do okay (even maybe) vs fairly highly ranked Bisons (15kbp+) that play patiently/carefully, but lose horribly to some too, depending on the Bison. So my main problem is this weird kinda middle ground where im playing a Bison that knows what buttons to press, knows not to do one thing too much and generally just wants to DO STUFF, but theyre quite clearly nowhere near as technical/smart as an actually good Bison. I just don't really get the matchup at all, and by matchup I mean almost anyone vs Bison. Ive played Viper, ERyu, Ryu, Balrog, Akuma, Sakura, Seth, Cammy and Gouken to an okay level and I feel uncomfortable vs Bison with everyone but Cammy, who I feel fairly indifferent against him with. Im by no means an expert with any of these characters so if one of these matchups is decently favourable for the character I play because of some specific mechanic I may not using correctly, fair enough, im more looking for general stuff that I can apply to almost any char vs Bison. Without hopefully sounding too emo, it basically just feels like Bison can press whatever the fuck he wants and the only time I get to press anything is if I read correctly the specific option hes going to choose to do. To give an example - headstomp. This is really, really fucking good. BUT I can punish it reasonably heavily with forward dash on reaction to make it whiff->punish. I cannot do this however unless im literally sitting there (or wobbling about) specifically watching for headstomp. If im concentrating on any other aspect of the game at all, and he headstomps - boom, free (significant) chip and if I threw a fireball or something, decent damage. Another example, say he is somehow close to me, made me block a few shorts, stopped, and now we're kinda in a nobody has frame advantage type situation. As far as I can tell, him light scissoring there beats absolutely fucking everything I can do other than block or 1)neutral/back jump depending on distance where I land on his head, or 2)random mashed uppercut which obviously isnt viable. If I block, its unpunishable, and we continue to be in a situation where hes the same distance away from me and can just scissor again, or not, or do things that punish neutral jumps etc. However, if I do say 'hes going to headstomp, I can feel it', and watch for it, do nothing, then react do my punish, I get really good damage. If he scissors, I take chip, im in the same situation again, NOW is he gonna headstomp? Another random scissors that I can't do anything about because I didn't specifically pre-emptive neutral jump, which would have lost to headstomp which is what I was reading. He dash attempts a throw, but I tech. The attempt was free though, because me attempting to press random normals to interrupt this kinda dash throw attempt is insane considering he can just scissors again and beat all of them with very little risk. I manage to find a spot to backdash away, woo! He follows me and starts to spam stand roundhouse slightly outside of regular footsie range. This beats like everything ive ever pressed and seems fast enough to be almost impossible to focus crumple, sick. Better back the fuck away. Whoa wait shit I landed a sweep. Omfg, pressure. Do setup, guess wrong OS, take damage and hes out. Alternatively, he doesn't wake up with anything (what random midlevel Bison does this), I do some random blockstring. Can't throw him, because mashed Bison jab+shorts are ludicrously good at stopping throws. Can't really frametrap either unless youre uber precise with your frametraps and he happens to press a short in the frame you want instead of a couple of frames later. But, you go for a frametrap anyway, because how the fuck else are you gonna get damage. He EX Psychos, which the vast majority of chars can't punish in any meaningful way when its done point blank. Hes out again. Sadface. Turned into a bit of a story! Hopefully entertaining. I know theres lots of things I do badly, like for example one thing ive picked up on and tried to improve over the last 6 months or so is my recognising the exact moments he does and does not have charge. Eg. before I wouldn't even consider the fact that he can't do his specials if hes wobbling about a bit outside footsie range looking for stand roundhouses - now I do and it helps, but doesn't stop the fact that stand roundhouse beats everything I try anyway :o(. Anyway gone on too long, hopefully someone can give me some advice that hasn't already been said in matchup threads for X vs Bison because ive read them for most characters and nothing has really made this twig for me. <3 I gave it a brief read over. I believe the problem you have is you give bison players too much respect. Try picking up bison for a week and do some googling, sit in the lab, and go online see how it feels to be on the other side. Play bison and just show some disrespect against people and see how they react. Also in your games after you do some research just disrespect m.bison. P.S. Add some bisons on friends list and just see if they will run endless with you. ALSO STEVE WHERE ARE YOU??! | ||
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AnomalySC2
United States2073 Posts
On July 08 2013 13:08 WindWolf wrote: Couldn't agree more on this. The matchmaking in this game isn't very good at times, and I lose more than I win online (according to the game I have a 23.49% GFWL win-rate), but most important of all, I'm still having fun while I play the game. So try to have fun while you play. I'm maining Juri, and the MU against Ken isn't my best, but Juri - Ken is probably one of the most fun things I can play About that....whats stopping someone from cheating like crazy on the pc versions of fighting games. I imagine its not all that hard to macro lengthy combos or some of the trickier fadc moves. | ||
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YulyaVolkova
United Kingdom95 Posts
On July 08 2013 13:58 rwrzr wrote: I gave it a brief read over. I believe the problem you have is you give bison players too much respect. Try picking up bison for a week and do some googling, sit in the lab, and go online see how it feels to be on the other side. Play bison and just show some disrespect against people and see how they react. Also in your games after you do some research just disrespect m.bison. P.S. Add some bisons on friends list and just see if they will run endless with you. ALSO STEVE WHERE ARE YOU??! Yeah I actually thought about doing what you suggest, play Bison for a little bit to get a feel for situations Bison feels weak in. Will give it a try :o). And about the post above ^ discussing the possibility of cheating. In my opinion it doesn't even matter. Anyone thats put time into the game doesn't really mess up their combos too often. What makes you win is what you choose to do, not whether you can execute it, because you just can. If you can't, go training mode more. This is also ignoring all the random other problems there would be with attempting to cheat like hitconfirming later parts of combos where your macro just lol's through the whole combo and you end up killing yourself on block. Or combos that require non-specific timing based on stuff like spacing or juggle fall speeds or whatever else. Not really an issue. | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
@ The matchmaking sucking, this is a pretty serious issue on the PC version. However, even though it takes more work, I highly encourage anyone to find someone(s) to run endless sets with. Especially 1v1 where you can just keep playing. It's infinitely more fun than ranked play, and one of the main things that keeps me playing. | ||
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ain
Germany786 Posts
On July 08 2013 14:19 AnomalySC2 wrote: About that....whats stopping someone from cheating like crazy on the pc versions of fighting games. I imagine its not all that hard to macro lengthy combos or some of the trickier fadc moves. I assume it's possible, but it's not going to get you anywhere since you don't win this game through combos, but through controlling your opponent. | ||
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
On July 08 2013 14:19 AnomalySC2 wrote: About that....whats stopping someone from cheating like crazy on the pc versions of fighting games. I imagine its not all that hard to macro lengthy combos or some of the trickier fadc moves. Can you be a bit more precise with what you mean? The game is providing you an option to bind certain keys for grab and focus (and taunt), so that wouldn't count as cheating IMO. Do you mean stuff like "shortcuts" for chargers? Raging Demon shortcuts should also be doable with a stick or pad ___________ Dreamhack is not only sending Popi to Evo, they are giving him a whole site as well http://gopopi.dreamhack.se/ | ||
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
On July 08 2013 20:34 WindWolf wrote: Can you be a bit more precise with what you mean? The game is providing you an option to bind certain keys for grab and focus (and taunt), so that wouldn't count as cheating IMO. Do you mean stuff like "shortcuts" for chargers? Raging Demon shortcuts should also be doable with a stick or pad ___________ Dreamhack is not only sending Popi to Evo, they are giving him a whole site as well http://gopopi.dreamhack.se/ He's talking about using a script like AutoHotkey to perform an entire combo by pressing a single key. Well, people do it, but considering the fact that PC online warriors represent less than 0.1% of the SF community, I think you'd just be handicapping yourself for when you decide to play on console or go to tournaments. Actually, it wouldn't bother me if my opponent decided to "cheat" that way. It would basically be the same as fighting someone with perfect execution, which is what I expect from my opponents anyway. And scripting combos will make them more sensitive to lag, so they're more likely to drop online than if they're doing them manually. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
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WindWolf
Sweden11767 Posts
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 09 2013 00:36 WindWolf wrote: Yeah, and using Stick doesn't necessarily mean you are a better play than others. For example, I know that the Swedish players Ixion and Freenoob (which DH of some reason called Freedom during DH:Summer) uses hand controllers and are still among the top in Sweden (plus, Ixion uses Dan). I don't think many people would imply that during "this day and age". There aren't many of them, but the pad players at the top can definitely compete. I don't think it's as large of a difference really. | ||
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Excalibur_Z
United States12248 Posts
On July 09 2013 01:05 Duka08 wrote: I don't think many people would imply that during "this day and age". There aren't many of them, but the pad players at the top can definitely compete. I don't think it's as large of a difference really. It's a rare condition, "this day and age", to read any good news on the newspaper page. Pad players say they have it harder in general I think, but for every crying pad player there's a pad superstar. Well then there must be some magic clue inside these tearful walls, 'cause all I see is a tower of dreams, real love burstin out of every seam. + Show Spoiler + Too many Urkels on your team, that's why your wins low | ||
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