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On June 22 2013 08:24 snakeeyez wrote:
I just want to say I really street fighter 3 parry system I wish another street fighter game would bring it back. I just never really liked street fighter 3 it had weird characters and the backgrounds/music was just not that memorable. My favorite fighting game of all time will always be super turbo.
If you like super turbo it makes sense the only perceived shortfall of sf3 would be the characters. I liked the newish mechanics that the cast had. And all of the bugs which made the game endearing.
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On June 22 2013 09:51 VManOfMana wrote:
Anybody else planning to go to CEO?
I am pretty much retired but I am always up to play some Super Turbo, Third Strike, and maybe some CvS2.
Oh, and Eternal Fighter Zero =)
ahhh I wish I could take you up on that. I want to go but paying for the evo ticket has KO'd my disposable income D:
Nice post a couple pages back, FS. Really encompasses why these games are such a strong passion for so many and can feel so rewarding. Few things in gaming feel as good as eliminating someone you couldn't beat for a year.
in tournament news, apparently Yang Yao Ren, the KoF player, blew up Jwong at the singapore major going on right now with multiple perfects O.o
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Valhalla18444 Posts
On June 22 2013 08:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 08:24 snakeeyez wrote:
I just want to say I really street fighter 3 parry system I wish another street fighter game would bring it back. I just never really liked street fighter 3 it had weird characters and the backgrounds/music was just not that memorable. My favorite fighting game of all time will always be super turbo. And I just want to say that if this is the real Snake Eyez that Fakesteve is no longer the best player on TL.
what a twist this might be
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On June 24 2013 06:00 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 08:27 Excalibur_Z wrote:On June 22 2013 08:24 snakeeyez wrote:
I just want to say I really street fighter 3 parry system I wish another street fighter game would bring it back. I just never really liked street fighter 3 it had weird characters and the backgrounds/music was just not that memorable. My favorite fighting game of all time will always be super turbo. And I just want to say that if this is the real Snake Eyez that Fakesteve is no longer the best player on TL. what a twist this might be
MONEY MATCH INCOMING
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After watching Kazunoko's Yun in the South East Asia Major tournament this weekend, I realized I enjoyed this game a lot more during the Yun/Yang domination era than I do now. At least it was "legit" top tier domination, not based on abusing broken game mechanics. I really hope the upcoming mystery update corrects things again, as AE2012 is by far my least favorite iteration of this game.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
No way man. I was at Canada Cup 2011 when Kazunoko won. after Wolfkrone's ridiculous gauntlet of japanese pros on his way to loser's finals, and the awesome set he played vs Leslie, the grand final was the dumbest set ive ever seen.
Kaz's Yun is awesome to watch now, but if you think AE was better than what we're playing now, you got some serious rose-colored glasses on. Yun was fucking BROKEN. Kazunoko just went through the motions and collected his win. He was the only Yun main there. He said in an interview that he played Yun because he had no confidence in his footsies and he dug the free wins.
You dont know how many people I saw just donate money to Kazunoko in money matches and come away learning absolutely nothing. Yun made pretty much the entire cast helpless, except for fucking Yang.
2012 is miles better than AE.
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As someone who didn't watch during the "normal" AE-area, what was the biggest issues that was present at that time?
I haven't watched much, but overall I think that AE 2012 is pretty good
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On June 24 2013 21:48 WindWolf wrote:
As someone who didn't watch during the "normal" AE-area, what was the biggest issues that was present at that time?
I haven't watched much, but overall I think that AE 2012 is pretty good
Well, Yun was broken.
Look how much was he nerfed. And he's still a very top tiers character after that.
+ Show Spoiler +
Target Combo 2
Changed damage from 60 + 40 + 50 (150 total) to 50 + 30 + 40 (120 total).
Target Combo 3
Changed damage from 80 + 70 (150 total) to 65 + 55 (120 total). Made super-cancelable off second hit.
Target Combo 4
Changed damage from 50 + 50 + 60 (160 total) to 50 + 35 + 48 (133 total) when executed from a far standing medium punch. Increased 2nd hit recovery by 2F, leaving attacker with a -6F (dis)advantage on a block.
Target Combo 5
Changed damage from 20 + 30 + 40 (90 total) to 20 + 20 + 32 (72 total).
Crouching Light Kick
Expanded hurtbox upward after hitbox becomes active.
Crouching Medium Punch
Changed damage from 60 to 50.
Zenpou Tenshin
Changed EX version’s startup from 5F to 8F, and removed throw-invincibility. Increased startup from 7F to 10F for light, medium, and heavy versions.
EX Zesshou Hohou
Changed division of hit detection period from 7F + 2F to 3F + 6F. Shortened block stun by 2F. This leaves the attacker with a -1F (dis)advantage when blocked at close range.
Raigeki Shu
Increased command input height restriction. Changed landing stun from 4F to 6F. Lengthened hit stun and block stun by 2F.
Kobokushi
Changed Super Meter build-up from 30 to 20 when medium or heavy version is executed. No change to Super Meter build-up when attack connects. Extended total frame count for light, medium, and heavy versions by 2F, taking the light version to 25F, and the medium and heavy versions to 45F. Changed damage from 160 to 140, and stun from 250 to 200 for medium and heavy versions. Changed chip damage from 40 to 30 for medium and heavy versions. Changed hitbox active period from 15F to 10F for medium and heavy versions.
Nishokyaku
Eliminated invincibility from light version at 6th frame after start. Shortened distance medium, heavy, and EX versions jump forward. Lengthened landing stun by 3F only for light and EX versions when attack whiffs. Changed medium version’s damage from 70 + 60 (130 total) to 70 + 40 (110 total).
Tetsuzanko
Changed heavy version’s damage from 140 to 100. Added mid-move strike hurtbox on all versions. Changed timing of projectile invincibility for the heavy version from 6th to 18th frame after the start of the move. Changed EX version’s damage from 80 + 70 (150 total) to 90 + 40 (130 total).
Genei Jin
Shortened length of effect by 1 second. Changed damage during Senpukyaku from 85 to 80.
Stun
Changed from 1000 to 950.
Near Standing Light Kick / Far Standing Light Kick
Lengthened block stun by 1F, giving the attacker a possible +2F advantage when blocked.
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On June 24 2013 21:42 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
No way man. I was at Canada Cup 2011 when Kazunoko won. after Wolfkrone's ridiculous gauntlet of japanese pros on his way to loser's finals, and the awesome set he played vs Leslie, the grand final was the dumbest set ive ever seen.
Kaz's Yun is awesome to watch now, but if you think AE was better than what we're playing now, you got some serious rose-colored glasses on. Yun was fucking BROKEN. Kazunoko just went through the motions and collected his win. He was the only Yun main there. He said in an interview that he played Yun because he had no confidence in his footsies and he dug the free wins.
You dont know how many people I saw just donate money to Kazunoko in money matches and come away learning absolutely nothing. Yun made pretty much the entire cast helpless, except for fucking Yang.
2012 is miles better than AE.
I was commenting more my own enjoyment playing the game, which Kazunoko raping faces with Yun had little effect on. For the record, SSF4 is still my favorite version. AE2012 is objectively a better game now, but the metagame has evolved into something I just don't enjoy as much (yes, I remember Sagat vs Sagat etc., but even factoring that).
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Valhalla18444 Posts
I get what you're saying. Unblockables are kinda stupid, but the blow is softened by the fact that almost every character has them, and a lot of them can be escaped rather than blocked. For example, the Cammy unblockable on Rufus (backthrow, 1f walk forward, s.mk -> j.fp) can be crouched under and full punished on Cammy's landing frames. The rabbit hole is still pretty deep.
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It's not only unblockables, but also how people play the game. Nowadays you can't really ever be sure if something was a good read or an option select (a mechanic that I've never liked, thankfully this game doesn't really have anything as stupid as O.Hawk's OS grab in ST).
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Vanilla SF4 console edition is still my favourite. The number of characters was perfect, offered lots of variety and most characters were playable. Super added too many new characters. Half of them are redundant, because someone else outdoes them at whatever they do. Note how the only non-vanilla high tier character are Adon and arguably Ibuki (I'm not counting Yun because they explicitly said they designed him to be incredibly strong...). Most of them clearly are rush jobs and display severe gaps in their gameplan.
I'd rather have a well designed, but smaller cast.
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Out of the 10 they added in Super, only 2 (Adon/Ibuki?) are viable, or 20%. And how many of the original 25 are viable? Ryu, Akuma, Cammy, Rufus, Viper, maybe Seth, Sakura and a touch of Chun-Li, but then you could argue for Makoto, maybe Guy.
Seems like that viability is pretty evenly distributed.
That said, I've always thought that (most) option selects and unblockables were stupid mechanics, and starting to master them was the quitting point for me.
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On June 24 2013 23:51 ain wrote:
Vanilla SF4 console edition is still my favourite. The number of characters was perfect, offered lots of variety and most characters were playable. Super added too many new characters. Half of them are redundant, because someone else outdoes them at whatever they do. Note how the only non-vanilla high tier character are Adon and arguably Ibuki (I'm not counting Yun because they explicitly said they designed him to be incredibly strong...). Most of them clearly are rush jobs and display severe gaps in their gameplan.
I'd rather have a well designed, but smaller cast.
I don't think it's that bad. In Evo 2012, in the top32, 24 different characters were used, with super characters: Ibuki, Makoto, Juri, Adon, Cody. As well as Yun and Oni from AE and Hakan making a cameo appearance. CEO2012 also had Dudley, THawk, Cody and Guy finishing top32.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Just to be clear, unblockables and option selects are not intended features, they are unintended mechanics, or in the case of unblockables, a nearly unfixable bug. And you can always tell whether something is an OS or not, they look different
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On June 25 2013 01:03 Pwere wrote:
Out of the 10 they added in Super, only 2 (Adon/Ibuki?) are viable, or 20%. And how many of the original 25 are viable? Ryu, Akuma, Cammy, Rufus, Viper, maybe Seth, Sakura and a touch of Chun-Li, but then you could argue for Makoto, maybe Guy.
Seems like that viability is pretty evenly distributed.
That said, I've always thought that (most) option selects and unblockables were stupid mechanics, and starting to master them was the quitting point for me.
Chun Li, Makoto, Guy? Really?
You also forgot about Fei Long, Sagat, Gen, Guile, Ken, all of which have had good results in tournaments.
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On June 25 2013 01:03 Pwere wrote:
Out of the 10 they added in Super, only 2 (Adon/Ibuki?) are viable, or 20%. And how many of the original 25 are viable? Ryu, Akuma, Cammy, Rufus, Viper, maybe Seth, Sakura and a touch of Chun-Li, but then you could argue for Makoto, maybe Guy.
Seems like that viability is pretty evenly distributed.
That said, I've always thought that (most) option selects and unblockables were stupid mechanics, and starting to master them was the quitting point for me.
You put Seth and Sakura together with Chun-Li in your tier assessment. I don't think this post can be taken seriously.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Most of the characters on the roster in 2012 are tournament viable. Put any character in the hands of a dunce and it will seem flawed, put any character in the hands of a master and it will seem powerful. I'd say the only characters that have too many problems to be a serious tournament player's main are Dee Jay, Hakan, T.Hawk, and Dan, and even then there are character specialists (for example, Kurokiba, Infiltration, MMS Native, Ixion for those characters respectively)
But as far as what you said, also no mention of Bison, Balrog, Honda, Abel, or Gief, all of whom were (and still are) very much tournament viable in vanilla/super, if that's all we're talking about.
"Viable" and "Top tier" are not the same thing 
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Honestly, as much as it hate to say it, of all the characters you mentioned, Chun is by far the worst lol. I love her but she doesn't belong in the same sentence as Sakura and Seth.
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Haha, I was gonna play this game in between starcraft 2 games to calm myself down but holy shit do this game drive me crazy, losing to gimmicks and shit I don't understand...
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EPT
