On December 09 2011 17:29 Mitsuwa wrote: Oh man that trolling by Ultra [9]/Ultratosis was hilarious.
Where can I find these Vods?
It happens throughout the whole night at various parts at this past WNF. You can find the vods over at http://www.twitch.tv/leveluplive/b/302007214 There are 3 parts to it and I believe it was a team tourney wnf for ae and umvc3 going on. I think there was some skull girls tourney going on too. On another note, it was cool to see mike ross playing marvel better since he's been actually practicing and getting ready for his match against jago this weekend for their barfights event. That event should be pretty hype too.
Definitely excited to read Ultradavid's opinion piece on esports.
Really great article. (belongs more in the generic FG thread but that one has been dead since SF4's release T_T) Should help a lot of the sc players on here understand why this community is the way it is.
I just read that article too. Unfortunately it won't be seen by the majority of TL. It was well written and had quite a bit of Starcraft talk in it. I think this article might resurface again when StreetFighter is at MLG 2012 and there will be the inevitable clash of cultures.
The problem with the article, in my opinion, is that he is almost advocating throwing out the baby with the bath water.
He makes a very long and informed post (somethings are simplified or slightly incorrect, but they are irrelevant to the points he wishes to make) comparing the 2 major communities in their differences. He wants to see the FGC succeed on its own terms... Isn't that what the SC2 community did? Seriously, that's where this hole thing kinda' loses me. The SC/2 community didn't change itself to be accepted, but rather this is who we are. We seem to fit into these tournaments because we, as a community, own our space. We didn't spring up at MLG and suddenly conform to acting like their Halo crowd or having our players emulate theirs in order to be accepted.
Their fundamental fear is being forced to change. I think this fear is largely unfounded in the sense that, let's say MLG (extremely unlikely at this point because of Capcom) picks up SF or MvC and doesn't deliver as much hype as they want. It doesn't mean the rest of the Majors suddenly don't exist. If MLG screwed the pooch, then all of the events they already had still existed (sans maybe 1 or 2 from conflicting dates or something). If it succeeded, hey, good then all is well. UldraDavid was at the NASL, which is in no way associated with the MLG, yet they still coexist. Shit, just this last summer there were 2 major tournaments conflicting with one another in their own community between ReveLAations and the one in Florida (name escapes me at the moment).
That said, I wont be as delusional to suggest that there wouldn't be some changes to make it more mainstream. But that doesn't mean it would be completely sanitized to the point of boring or lacking hype. Yes, some choice things would probably have to be toned down a little bit, but not all of it.... and what is especially important is at their normal tournaments they can still run them exactly as they please.
I would also state, that from a personal standpoint, I do think the Esports bubble is going to pop (not omg collapse we're all fucked... but there will be a scaling back). It would be better to be in the bubble when it pops and take a hit, but assuming the FGC has proven successful, then it will survive. However, after the eventual burst I find it unlikely that any tournaments would be seeking to add new games to their roster and it would leave the FGC on the outside looking in once again.
every tournament FGC runs is open. to them there is no such thing as invited players. Not only that but they have no cap on said open tournaments. Evo took on 3000+ entrees this pass year. They believe in this model wholeheartedly but I see it hard to convince MLG to adopt it.
our culture was predisposed to this biggness. Korea being the standard we expected nothing less. All those years of professional korean starcraft. So when MLG came in during beta we expected there shit to be like broodwar and the new quick to start up (thanks to blizzard) GSL.
He makes a mention of how Japan has never had a big tournament scene. SBO and that's about it. So there was never any higher tier to reach with american FGC tournaments. they are the biggest within their realm of games. Unlike us where we came out of the gates itching to show that we can be as cool as koreans and throw even bigger tournaments. Only similarity is that asians in both are ungodly good.
He's not saying we changed. he mentions how well we fit with pro leagues BECAUSE of our culture.
Also doesn't look good when there was an MLG the same weekend as EVO this year.
Just finished reading the article. In my opinion, great write up and very interesting. Especially the part's of the background's of the communities in terms of the players. FGC being less educated, less income and large racial diversity was a very interesting point that I hadn't considered up until now.
On December 13 2011 11:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Their fundamental fear is being forced to change. I think this fear is largely unfounded in the sense that, let's say MLG (extremely unlikely at this point because of Capcom) picks up SF or MvC and doesn't deliver as much hype as they want. It doesn't mean the rest of the Majors suddenly don't exist. If MLG screwed the pooch, then all of the events they already had still existed (sans maybe 1 or 2 from conflicting dates or something)
Ultra David wasn't saying that he was afraid that the FGC majors would disappear. In fact he says "But if we work together in the right way, I don’t think that MLG having Street Fighter will mean that Evo will go away or even that time-honored majors like Final Round and Seasons Beatings will go away. MLG will have to consider who we are and what we want, and if they don’t, then I can see us suffering. I don’t want MLG to schedule an event for the same weekend as Evo or any other major. I don’t want them to act like they can control our scene, because that’ll just be destructive to both sides. Work with us and understand our terms, and I think we can make this work."
Unfortunately, there WAS a mlg scheduled this year during evo. I actually attended MLG that weekend but left before the final's because i wanted to watch top 8 of marvel and sf4. I remember DjWheat saying he was sad that he was missing evo this year. You have to think of it like this. When MLG adopted SC2, mlg was at a downfall. When SC2 was taken into MLG they had a lot more leverage on MLG than fighting games would now; mainly because mlg's success was dependent on SC2. Maybe not so clear as that, but you can't argue that MLG doesn't have more influence on new games it takes in now than it did with starcraft then. So now, when you think of MLG adopting SF4 or UMVC3, it is a much more seemingly imposing force to those who are not apart of it already. They have corporations and sponsorships they need to appeal to. You can't have people screaming obscenities constantly in the backgrounds at tournaments like you would at a WNF or any FGC Major. That just isn't a good look.
One of my favorite parts (Not talking about tasteless) "I told Nick about one of my side bets, which was that Sen (a Taiwanese player) would scratch his face before Thorzain (a Swedish player). I lost. I said, “What the hell was I thinking, betting against the white man in an itchy face contest? That pasty ass dude gets three times the grease and ten times the follicles.” My casual racism made Nick, a white guy, visibly uncomfortable. Later on in the night I told some of the people I’d met how I hadn’t seen a black dude all day. Guess who was standing like four feet behind me? Yep, a black guy. Everyone else I was with kinda cringed. Me? What, I can’t say “black guy” in front of a black guy? Get outta here."
I think everyone on tl should read this, but I agree with you Quadratic. It will probably go overlooked by most of TL.
On December 13 2011 14:11 Mitsuwa wrote: Just finished reading the article. In my opinion, great write up and very interesting. Especially the part's of the background's of the communities in terms of the players. FGC being less educated, less income and large racial diversity was a very interesting point that I hadn't considered up until now.
On December 13 2011 11:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Their fundamental fear is being forced to change. I think this fear is largely unfounded in the sense that, let's say MLG (extremely unlikely at this point because of Capcom) picks up SF or MvC and doesn't deliver as much hype as they want. It doesn't mean the rest of the Majors suddenly don't exist. If MLG screwed the pooch, then all of the events they already had still existed (sans maybe 1 or 2 from conflicting dates or something)
Ultra David wasn't saying that he was afraid that the FGC majors would disappear. In fact he says "But if we work together in the right way, I don’t think that MLG having Street Fighter will mean that Evo will go away or even that time-honored majors like Final Round and Seasons Beatings will go away. MLG will have to consider who we are and what we want, and if they don’t, then I can see us suffering. I don’t want MLG to schedule an event for the same weekend as Evo or any other major. I don’t want them to act like they can control our scene, because that’ll just be destructive to both sides. Work with us and understand our terms, and I think we can make this work."
That's kinda' my point. He acknowledge what a problem is, but offers no real solution. His solution seems to be, "well let's wait and see or try to do it on our own." Isn't that naive? Isn't that more of a risk than its worth? His article is long and detailed, but it really doesn't provide a real solution, other than to stay the course.
Unfortunately, there WAS a mlg scheduled this year during evo. I actually attended MLG that weekend but left before the final's because i wanted to watch top 8 of marvel and sf4. I remember DjWheat saying he was sad that he was missing evo this year. You have to think of it like this. When MLG adopted SC2, mlg was at a downfall. When SC2 was taken into MLG they had a lot more leverage on MLG than fighting games would now; mainly because mlg's success was dependent on SC2. Maybe not so clear as that, but you can't argue that MLG doesn't have more influence on new games it takes in now than it did with starcraft then. So now, when you think of MLG adopting SF4 or UMVC3, it is a much more seemingly imposing force to those who are not apart of it already. They have corporations and sponsorships they need to appeal to. You can't have people screaming obscenities constantly in the backgrounds at tournaments like you would at a WNF or any FGC Major. That just isn't a good look.
You can't blame MLG for scheduling an event during EVO when there are no conflicts or vice versa. Both tournaments are scheduled well, well in advance and had no overlapping games. Why would MLG actively seek out and attempt to avoid a clash? However, should the games be included, then it becomes mutually beneficial to avoid overlap of tournaments. It would kinda' become a dick swinging contest as to what date might change, but if neither are able to compromise a date then both groups are idiots to let that stop them.
The argument about obscenities is honestly the only thing that is a "legitimate" fear. Yes, MLG wouldn't allow some of the language or yelling that goes on. They allow hype, but if the FGC can't not say ridiculous things, that isn't a really good sign. Some of the most common commentators don't have to be ridiculous on the mic, so that might just mean those are the ones who would have to talk if others can't refrain from going overboard.
Also, as just a random thought, I also think the FGC has experienced an influx of viewers in large part of SC2. Better broadcasting sites had made viewership #'s higher and higher since SC2, and the FGC siphoned off many of the viewers as well for their major tournaments. The increased popularity of SC2 has directly benefited them in that way and I think more chances for cross over viewership can only help the FGC. The arguments of those at the NASL on the matter align with what we all know. Fighting games are easy to watch and understand, and the hype surrounding some of their moments readily engage an audience more easily than SC2 or virtually any other game.
I think the main factor by a large margin is fighting games not being playable online. The vast majority of possible gamers couldnt even compete in a fighting game if they wanted to. Its impossible for a global, significant esport scene to develop for that reason alone. All the other factors he mentions certainly play some role, but are negligible compared to this underlying problem imo.
I actually wonder whether this guy is allowed to play at Evo since he's mapping macros. For those of you who don't know, he only uses 4 button on his pad, all the normals you see are actually option selects from within those 4 buttons.
Explanation on his button mapping and option selecting starts at 1:35. It's so fucking godlike.
he plays chung btw. uses ex roundhouse wakeup a little bit too often i think, and his offensive actions are the same 2 or 3 combos over and over and a lot of sweeps. not hating, just trying to figure out how he manages to be so good. i guess his spacing is very good and he punishes people really hard after good blocks.
he just left, undefeated, like a boss 60+ winstreak
EPT
