EPTRTS: BW
Arena: Bloodline Champions
Highest skillcap - Page 7
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Traveler
United States451 Posts
RTS: BW Arena: Bloodline Champions | ||
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RaLakedaimon
United States1564 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:46 Manit0u wrote: You're wrong... Explanation: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iECXl.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/8/11/b98a628e-ceb0-4eab-ae32-6f928736b112.png) ![[image loading]](http://df.magmawiki.com/images/4/40/FunComic.png) If you never tried it, you should. Just to see what "hardcore" really means. I went and download the two diff versions that were on the download page of Dwarf Fortress, I loaded it up, went into adventure mode...and had no clue wtf I was supposed to do and everything looked similar to the matrix screen, just from reading your post and trying out DF for the first time tonight I'd already say DF>BW, atleast the first time I turned on BW I knew to click on stuff to build and make an army of tanks, marines etc but with this I feel like I should go to some college courses first lol. Thanks for this I'm looking forward to learning about it more! | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
The skill curve however, is horrendous from day 1, in PVP. RNG factors prevents it from being a good PVP game.I The same can be said for PVE imo.Only the very best PVE players can complete the heroic high level content easily.At least for WOW vanilla/BC. at least this is wat i feel | ||
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Sneakyz
Sweden2361 Posts
On May 12 2011 20:22 thoradycus wrote: The skill cap in WOW is no different from Brood War, no one can really dodge CC perfectly yet,perfect positioning etc. The skill curve however, is horrendous from day 1, in PVP. The same can be said for PVE imo.Only the very best PVE players can complete the heroic high level content easily.At least for WOW vanilla/BC. The problem in most cases is that unless you're an old-school well known guild, you won't have enough actual "good" players to fill your raid. Atleast this was my case, and one of the reasons i quit since i wanted to play with my 5 friends and none of the better guilds would accept 6 people  .Unless you're like, the top guild bashing your head against encounters never tested before (which is not the case anymore hello PTR) you don't really have to be very good, you just have to not be bad. | ||
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dunc
Netherlands1105 Posts
On May 12 2011 20:22 thoradycus wrote: The skill cap in WOW is no different from any hard game,no one can really dodge CC perfectly yet,perfect positioning etc. The skill curve however, is horrendous from day 1, in PVP. RNG factors prevents it from being a good PVP game.I The same can be said for PVE imo.Only the very best PVE players can complete the heroic high level content easily.At least for WOW vanilla/BC. at least this is wat i feel ? I've been in the top10 every single season and I can browse TL while playing, WoW is not hard Honestly people shouldn't compare WoW to SC2 and DEFINITELY not to BW. | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
On May 12 2011 20:44 dunc wrote: ? I've been in the top10 every single season and I can browse TL while playing, WoW is not hard Honestly people shouldn't compare WoW to SC2 and DEFINITELY not to BW. which is y i said the skill curve is bad? Im just saying noone can yet play perfectly at WoW,lol. Also, there is a big difference from those top100 ladder guys and those who performs consistently at LAN.Alot of times, those top ranked ladder arena teams get wrecked really badly by those LAN performers during competitions. Different BGs have different skill levels as well. | ||
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Dattish
Sweden6297 Posts
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ridonkulous
159 Posts
go>chess by far strategy wise | ||
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shinarit
Hungary900 Posts
But BW's hardness is mostly about the "metagame" and the mechanics. The units are pretty simple designed, the maps dont have too much terrain mechanics, the supply cap is 200, which is 400 max unit, but thats really a theoretical 400. If we stick to the RTS scene (which is a good idea, because different genres are hardly comparable) I think the most complex (in game mechanics) game i ever played was SupCom. People think theres no micro in the game, which is quite false... you just dont have the apm to micro everything and direct your X (X can be 1 to many) engineers at the same time. But i see the discussion is mostly around WoW, which sounds quite funny, and the other stuff is 'BW ofc'... which is just simply boring. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
Not only is the aiming part quite difficult, but there are also the strategy and teamwork aspects which require years to begin to really grasp. Then comes the difficulty of making sure your team can stick together, continue to build chemistry, etc. Doing that within a community as bad as 1.6's is nearly impossible. If it's only individual skill cap I'd go with BW most likely, although there are probably some other games out there that are harder. | ||
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Avi-Love
Denmark423 Posts
Bw on the other hand requires lot of hard work and dedication in order to consistently improve and progress as an individual player; you don't get A on iccup after playing the game for a month, no matter how good or talented you are. For reference sake I'm a 4 time gladiator(with 3 different classes) and I've been in 3 different top 100 world pve guilds in WoW. | ||
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Hunterai
Thailand842 Posts
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
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dangots0ul
United States919 Posts
SC = Computers cant beat me What does this say about possible moves? And what it means for skill cap? HMMMMMM | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Singleplayer tho Fuck this shit. Multiplayer, i'd say Starcraft BW for RTS obviously, Quake, counterstrike for FPS. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28591 Posts
"how many layers of dominance are there?" like for example bw. prior to the release of sc2, I was very good at bw. yet there were hundreds of koreans who could beat me 10-0. (dominating me) I'm not sure you had any players that could beat me 10-0 that would be beaten 10-0 by anyone else, but I think flash or jd mightve made it fairly close. so you can probably argue that I had two layers of dominance over me, at the very least one and a half layer. below me however, there were a lot more layers. I could beat someone 10-0, he could beat someone 10-0, that one could beat someone 10-0, that one could beat someone 10-0, that one could beat someone 10-0.. and now we're at something like D+ iccup. there are at least 5-6 more layers before you get to "has played a grand total of 50 sc games in his life". WoW doesn't come close here - there aren't 12+ giant steps of skill to overcome separating the best players and a newbie. but some shooters like quake do come close. I was pretty good at quakeworld back in like 97 or whatever. but there you also had like, multiple layers of dominance. I can buy that a game like ssmb is also really high up - the one time I tried to play it I was wayyy out of my element, and street fighter is also pretty high. I can't see any game where there are as many layers of complete dominance as in bw though. | ||
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trainRiderJ
United States615 Posts
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vasculaR
Malaysia791 Posts
On May 12 2011 07:44 jtype wrote: I think it's all quite subjective. I mean, you might look at very top level Quake (3/Live) and be completely blown away by the speed, accuracy and spacial awareness of the players. You could watch Starcraft players and get hypnotised by the speed of their hands and their sheer mechanical skill, in combination with their strategic planning and tactical awareness. You could also look at team-based games like DotA/HoN/LoL/CSS/CS1.6 and observe the skill of the players when it comes to skilfully operating as a team; perhaps skilfully communicating information from the game to each other. You can't really overlook any aspect of what it takes to play a particular game, when it comes to discussing this. It's hard enough to decide exactly what 'skill' actually is, in gaming terms, let alone try to find out which game is the hardest or has the highest skill ceiling. Pretty much what I feel as well. EDIT :- I would like to add Moon's amazing control in War3 since I notice no one/not many people mentioned War3. But I was totally jizzing in my pants when watching clutch micros in War3 as a spectator. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4329 Posts
in brood war there isn't really any handicap like having better gear or a superior tech tree , the maps are pretty advanced and balanced now so it's just one v one pure skill no BS | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
few days ago started playing some quake live again. and while i quickly got back into it now that i get "placed" vs the highest tier of player i see HUGE differences within that tier. i stomped the lower tier FFAs/CAs/duels. now i meet evrything from easy players to equal to "WTF BBQ that dude owns me so hard" all just in that top tier. On May 12 2011 22:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: impossible to judge skill cap in WoW because gear and tech tree plays such a big role in brood war there isn't really any handicap like having better gear or a superior tech tree , the maps are pretty advanced and balanced now so it's just one v one pure skill no BS i playd arena at around glad cutoff level for a year. and even in mirrors with same spec and equal gear there never was a situation where i thought "uh that guy is damn good! we can never win!". and those matches were usually decided by RNG things like resists,misses,dodges or procs. the hardest part about wow arena is finding decent partners and getting a UI setup that truly works for you. evrything else is very simple. and raiding is pretty much "dont stand in fire" outside of time and endurance. and i raided T6 content in BC. i did yogg and have my black dragon form sartharon(?)+3 10man pre uldaman patch. and the "skill" required for the single person to raid is laughable. playing devilmaycry 3 on hard (not insane) is already way harder then raiding is at anypoint. its just way more frustrating when you do the same shit for hours cause one guy dies from fall dmg and then archimonde blows up the whole raid. | ||
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