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EVO 2011 Tournament Season - Page 110

Forum Index > General Games
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Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
July 31 2011 07:27 GMT
#2181
Floe is ass lol...
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
acker
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-31 07:34:45
July 31 2011 07:27 GMT
#2182
On July 31 2011 16:22 Scribble wrote:

My whole point is that the UMVC3 changes are knee jerk reactions and that there isn't enough data to conclude that she is definitely broken.

I would, AS A ZERG, argue that the 5-rax reaper nerf was probably too hasty. If the strategy had prevailed until say, 1-2 months ago with nobody managing to even put a dent in it, then yes, maybe a tweak is in order. Phoenix on the other hand, is already looking considerably less dominant than she did a few months ago.

Also, here's a question: Should have Blizzard have nerfed Protoss into the ground in BW in 2007 after Bisu turned everything upside down? By your own logic, they totally should have because there was no evidence that people were going to figure out how to combat Protoss at that point.

I know it sucks to lose to something and feel helpless, and I know it isn't fun to lose to a strat or character that doesn't *feel* balanced, but you can't just scream for nerfs immediately.


See post above for response to first sentence, it's better than anything I could have written.

Individual players were dominant in races in Starcraft. Racial balance among top players was fairly constant (and almost always below 65%), even during the Flash dominance. The same cannot be said about Phoenix. Dark Pheonix is 8-2 in her worst matchup among top players, god knows what she is for her best matchups. it's completely out of line with the rest of the cast.

...well, technically her worst matchup is against another Dark Phoenix, which is 5-5. I'm obviously excluding that.

If you feel like this even for the Reaper stuff, I don't think we're ever going to agree.
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
July 31 2011 07:28 GMT
#2183
UMVC3 just needs to not have teleports, dorma, logan, jean, wesker etc the teleports create a bit of randomness which is why people get shit ass salty gets hard to block when you really can only guess where they are going to be.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
July 31 2011 07:29 GMT
#2184
WOOOW JUSTIN IS SANDBAGGING WTF
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
July 31 2011 07:30 GMT
#2185
and he still won....EC is free sorry, you guys had Marvel 2, WC has Marvel 3 easy
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
polgas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1791 Posts
July 31 2011 07:30 GMT
#2186
Rematch combofiend and pr rog
Leee Jaee Doong
vertical101
Profile Joined April 2011
Hong Kong311 Posts
July 31 2011 07:30 GMT
#2187
On July 31 2011 16:09 vertical101 wrote:
what is the prize pool for SSF4 and MVC3?

anyone know?
bajabaja
Profile Joined September 2010
245 Posts
July 31 2011 07:33 GMT
#2188
I hope top 8 Marvel is 3/5. Creates more hype matches just like Final Round.
2/3 seems like a quick set.
hi.
broz0rs
Profile Joined July 2008
United States2294 Posts
July 31 2011 07:38 GMT
#2189
East coast team without black ppl? /smh

shawster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada2485 Posts
July 31 2011 07:39 GMT
#2190
i'm always amazing at how good viscant is. he's so consistent it's mind boggling.

and pr rog is a beast with dante
DarkOptik
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
452 Posts
July 31 2011 07:41 GMT
#2191
East Coast is so damn FREE at MvC.
O-ops
Profile Joined February 2009
United States4236 Posts
July 31 2011 07:43 GMT
#2192
Daigo's all smiley and shit and I'm uncomfortable
Fan of the Jangbanger
Trumpet
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1936 Posts
July 31 2011 07:44 GMT
#2193
Justin was playing sanford's team in the ec wc thing.... trollolololol
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-31 07:49:05
July 31 2011 07:46 GMT
#2194
On July 31 2011 16:27 acker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 16:22 Scribble wrote:

My whole point is that the UMVC3 changes are knee jerk reactions and that there isn't enough data to conclude that she is definitely broken.

I would, AS A ZERG, argue that the 5-rax reaper nerf was probably too hasty. If the strategy had prevailed until say, 1-2 months ago with nobody managing to even put a dent in it, then yes, maybe a tweak is in order. Phoenix on the other hand, is already looking considerably less dominant than she did a few months ago.

Also, here's a question: Should have Blizzard have nerfed Protoss into the ground in BW in 2007 after Bisu turned everything upside down? By your own logic, they totally should have because there was no evidence that people were going to figure out how to combat Protoss at that point.

I know it sucks to lose to something and feel helpless, and I know it isn't fun to lose to a strat or character that doesn't *feel* balanced, but you can't just scream for nerfs immediately.


See post above for response to first sentence, it's better than anything I could have wrote.

Individual players were dominant in races in Starcraft. Racial balance among top players was fairly constant (and almost always below 65%), even during the Flash dominance. The same cannot be said about Phoenix. Dark Pheonix is 8-2 in her worst matchup among top players, god knows what she is for her best matchups. it's completely out of line with the rest of the cast.


"Floe is ass." =P

Individual players are dominant in Marvel. What is your point here? Also, I would argue that racial balance was fairly constant because Blizzard didn't knee-jerk nerf everything just because something felt broken for a short while.

I'd also like to point out that there are as many she-hulks and magnetos as phoenixes in top 8.

Oh yeah, here's another hypothetical: many pro Zergs agree that Zerg needs to be buffed/T and P need to be nerfed. The response I hear all the time is, "give it time and just work to figure out how to solve ZvX."

And you know what? They're right. For every time I lose and feel helpless and vent that Zerg is shit and T/P is imba, that's all it is and all it should be: venting. If Blizzard made drastic balance changes based on the whims of the community to what feels imbalanced *right now* there would be a patch a day...

...and a weekly hotfix to the bunker's build time.

Edit: I just think folks need to chill with the "I don't know what to do and other people better than me agree, so NERF THIS!" attitude. BW and MvC2 have both proven that a game doesn't necessarily need knee-jerk balance changes. They obviously aren't proof that patches aren't EVER necessary, but patience is a virtue, one which today's generation of gamers need to learn to appreciate. If half the effort expended in whining went into solving match-ups we wouldn't need to argue in the first place.
MiyaviTeddy
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada697 Posts
July 31 2011 07:48 GMT
#2195
On July 31 2011 16:27 acker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 16:22 Scribble wrote:

My whole point is that the UMVC3 changes are knee jerk reactions and that there isn't enough data to conclude that she is definitely broken.

I would, AS A ZERG, argue that the 5-rax reaper nerf was probably too hasty. If the strategy had prevailed until say, 1-2 months ago with nobody managing to even put a dent in it, then yes, maybe a tweak is in order. Phoenix on the other hand, is already looking considerably less dominant than she did a few months ago.

Also, here's a question: Should have Blizzard have nerfed Protoss into the ground in BW in 2007 after Bisu turned everything upside down? By your own logic, they totally should have because there was no evidence that people were going to figure out how to combat Protoss at that point.

I know it sucks to lose to something and feel helpless, and I know it isn't fun to lose to a strat or character that doesn't *feel* balanced, but you can't just scream for nerfs immediately.


See post above for response to first sentence, it's better than anything I could have written.

Individual players were dominant in races in Starcraft. Racial balance among top players was fairly constant (and almost always below 65%), even during the Flash dominance. The same cannot be said about Phoenix. Dark Pheonix is 8-2 in her worst matchup among top players, god knows what she is for her best matchups. it's completely out of line with the rest of the cast.

...well, technically her worst matchup is against another Dark Phoenix, which is 5-5. I'm obviously excluding that.

If you feel like this even for the Reaper stuff, I don't think we're ever going to agree.


I have to agree. The amount of shit dark phoenix can do (especially so in lv3 x-factor) is absurd.
Aiyeeeee
shawster
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada2485 Posts
July 31 2011 07:50 GMT
#2196
On July 31 2011 16:46 Scribble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2011 16:27 acker wrote:
On July 31 2011 16:22 Scribble wrote:

My whole point is that the UMVC3 changes are knee jerk reactions and that there isn't enough data to conclude that she is definitely broken.

I would, AS A ZERG, argue that the 5-rax reaper nerf was probably too hasty. If the strategy had prevailed until say, 1-2 months ago with nobody managing to even put a dent in it, then yes, maybe a tweak is in order. Phoenix on the other hand, is already looking considerably less dominant than she did a few months ago.

Also, here's a question: Should have Blizzard have nerfed Protoss into the ground in BW in 2007 after Bisu turned everything upside down? By your own logic, they totally should have because there was no evidence that people were going to figure out how to combat Protoss at that point.

I know it sucks to lose to something and feel helpless, and I know it isn't fun to lose to a strat or character that doesn't *feel* balanced, but you can't just scream for nerfs immediately.


See post above for response to first sentence, it's better than anything I could have wrote.

Individual players were dominant in races in Starcraft. Racial balance among top players was fairly constant (and almost always below 65%), even during the Flash dominance. The same cannot be said about Phoenix. Dark Pheonix is 8-2 in her worst matchup among top players, god knows what she is for her best matchups. it's completely out of line with the rest of the cast.


"Floe is ass." =P

Individual players are dominant in Marvel. What is your point here? Also, I would argue that racial balance was fairly constant because Blizzard didn't knee-jerk nerf everything just because something felt broken for a short while.

I'd also like to point out that there are as many she-hulks and magnetos as phoenixes in top 8.

Oh yeah, here's another hypothetical: many pro Zergs agree that Zerg needs to be buffed/T and P need to be nerfed. The response I hear all the time is, "give it time and just work to figure out how to solve ZvX."

And you know what? They're right. For every time I lose and feel helpless and vent that Zerg is shit and T/P is imba, that's all it is and all it should be: venting. If Blizzard made drastic balance changes based on the whims of the community to what feels imbalanced *right now* there would be a patch a day...

...and a weekly hotfix to the bunker's build time.


i think you need to emphasize how phoenix changes games, and it can feel unfun for people. by choosing phoenix you're limiting the phoenix player to not using supers, you're making the other person snapback and give up damage etc. magneto is just a really great character, hell even if magneto was miles better than phoenix i think there would still be some qq.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
July 31 2011 07:56 GMT
#2197
Meh, phoenix didn't play the role in Viscant and Fchamp winning there, they're genuinely better players, because even using pheonix doesn't guarantee you wins, you still have to put in a lot of time into the game executing the mixups and keeping all the anti pheonix strats at bay. Yeah Phoenix is retardedly strong, too strong. But you can pretty clearly see that those guys didn't execute anti phoenix strats as well as people like Justin do.

Plus, Viscant won both of his matches without dark phoenix, in fact the first time he used phoenix a total of twice for the assist, which can be done with any halfway decent assist, and means viscant can't use up his meter.

Second time, once again, dark p hoenix didn't play the role, and any character in phoenix position can pull off the 30% damage combo that he had his phoenix use.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-31 08:02:36
July 31 2011 07:59 GMT
#2198
On July 31 2011 16:56 Zlasher wrote:
Meh, phoenix didn't play the role in Viscant and Fchamp winning there, they're genuinely better players, because even using pheonix doesn't guarantee you wins, you still have to put in a lot of time into the game executing the mixups and keeping all the anti pheonix strats at bay. Yeah Phoenix is retardedly strong, too strong. But you can pretty clearly see that those guys didn't execute anti phoenix strats as well as people like Justin do.

Plus, Viscant won both of his matches without dark phoenix, in fact the first time he used phoenix a total of twice for the assist, which can be done with any halfway decent assist, and means viscant can't use up his meter.

Second time, once again, dark p hoenix didn't play the role, and any character in phoenix position can pull off the 30% damage combo that he had his phoenix use.


This is true. It's what I mean when I say "we've already seen her become less of a threat now than she was a few months ago."

A few months ago Phoenix pretty much meant "put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye."

Now she's just kind of really powerful, but often manageable.

And this happened without a balance tweak.

It just bums me out that because now that everyone has an avenue to broadcast their complaints on a wide level they would rather scream for nerfs instead of giving it time and solving their problems.
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
July 31 2011 08:03 GMT
#2199
In the end its just like this...the amount of time those two guys put into their teams, you replace Phoenix with a wolverine, or a taskmaster, or a wesker, or a magneto, whatever it is, and they'd still be kicking ass.

Yes Phoenix is bullshit but that doesn't take away from the fact that Champ and Viscant are top tier players.
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Scribble
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
2077 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-31 08:07:43
July 31 2011 08:06 GMT
#2200
I agree that a lot of things feel like bullshit. Blue flame hellions feel like bullshit. My friend's X23/Spiderman team feels like bullshit. Yun, Yang, and Zangief feel like bullshit.

Just gotta vent and work through problems instead of spending all that time hoping for nerfs.

Edit: Also...people with Rocket Launchers in Slayer DMRs in Halo. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
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