EPTEVO 2011 Tournament Season - Page 109
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drew-chan
Malaysia1517 Posts
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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vertical101
Hong Kong311 Posts
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ImHuko
United States996 Posts
On July 31 2011 16:03 On_Slaught wrote: As a casual watcher of this Phoenix is really ruining this experience for me. It's just a circle jerk until the player gets lvl 5 and if you don't kill her before then you might as well drop the controller even if you have 300% health. I don't know the nuances of the game but man is this annoying to watch. Edit: Oh woot! Somebody killed a dark phoenix!! :D Yea it is pretty lame, but it creates crazy hype for the game. People tend to hate the phoenix player, so if phoenix loses, its instant hype. If Phoenix wins, everyone's pissed lol | ||
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bajabaja
245 Posts
4/5 of WC players are in top 8, 3 of em in winners. EC has 1. Hoping it's not gonna be an anti-climatic match. | ||
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Trumpet
United States1935 Posts
On July 31 2011 16:09 O-ops wrote: I don't think anyone from the East Coast made it except Noel... Yea I was really hoping for sanford to make it through to make it really Mahvel. did anyone get the screencap of marn with the eye roll after phoenix? lololol | ||
AltaiR_
Korea (South)922 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
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acker
United States2958 Posts
On July 31 2011 16:02 Scribble wrote: Way to ignore my point entirely. UMVC3 isn't a fundamentally different game. It's some new characters and balance tweaks. My entire point is that the game needs time to evolve because the community eventually figures enough out that there are drastic shifts in what works and what doesn't over time. That was the entire reason I brought up Iceman. The community was in nearly universal agreement that Iceman was broken. He was not ever nerfed, and yet eventually that consensus changed because people had time to figure out how to deal with him until he became a non-issue. Pheonix had her in-air actions limited to one and Wolverine's dive kick got nerfed hard in UMVC3, according to the current build, along the X-factor and zoning redesigns. It's going to be very, very different, if the fan-made changelogs are accurate. Claiming that something isn't broken off of non-evidence is fundamentally a bad way to go, when evidence is overwhelming to the contrary. Since the game is being revamped in November, what matters is if she's broken now. And she most certainly is. If you're going to claim that someone might invent anti-Pheonix technology that makes her non-broken between here and November, I'd like evidence. Something tells me that you'd never use the same argument for why Reapers should have their build time reverted to twenty-five seconds and the Nitro Packs moved back to T1. Quite frankly, she's broken now and needs a revamp. If it turns out she's not broken five years later, she will need a buff then. Just like every other multiplayer game nowadays. | ||
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
was praying sanford would make it to top 8. classic mvc2 stuff | ||
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Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
On July 31 2011 16:03 On_Slaught wrote: As a casual watcher of this Phoenix is really ruining this experience for me. It's just a circle jerk until the player gets lvl 5 and if you don't kill her before then you might as well drop the controller even if you have 300% health. I don't know the nuances of the game but man is this annoying to watch. Edit: Oh woot! Somebody killed a dark phoenix!! :D At the highest level, it is still a gigantic mixup but its not as retarded as it sounds, theres a lot of mind games involved with Phoenix play. Theres a reason that Viscant Clockwork and Fchamp continually dominate all their tournaments with phoenix and not just ANYONE can do it. Fchamps teleport mixups are by far the best and it transitioned from his godlike teleport mixups on Dhalsim. Anyways WC vs EC time now Overunder on WC vs EC will be 3.5 WC Oh wait they're doing Waseda and not round robin wtffff so stupid -.- | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On July 31 2011 15:55 Scribble wrote: I really don't think she's that bad. She has a lot of drawbacks and vulnerabilities. You have to keep in mind that things get figured out over time. Just look at how the vs phoenix matchup has evolved in only 6 months time. Phoenix may not even be considered usable 4 years from now. If you're familiar with Marvel 2: early in the game's lifespan people wanted Iceman banned because he was too broken. 10 years of playing experimenting later he wasn't even considered a decent character. Yes, Iceman was eventually revealed to not be a problem. But does that mean nerfing him would have made the game worse? Until something gets figured out, you don't even know that it can be figured out. So what do you do between the time when something hasn't been figured out and the (possibly non-existent) future when it is? Suffer through boring game after boring game of people turtling up till they get 5 bars for Phoenix, then 3 seconds of action while two Phoenixes kill each other? Phoenix corrupts MvC3 play. It turns a fast-paced game into something entirely different, all because of a simple mechanic. The game should be an epic duel of small mistakes leading to big damage, powerful DHCs, combo resets, strategic X-Factor usage, and dynamic character usage and swapping. Any match involving Phoenix degenerates into the Phoenix player attacking with two characters, with little or no usage of X-Factor or HCs. The other player is desperately trying to snap in Phoenix and murder her before you get 5 meters. If a player does that, they win. If the Phoenix player survives, they win. Not always, but far, far better than 50-50, and certainly asymmetric with skill (you have to be a much better player to kill a level-3 X-Factor Dark Phoenix than the Phoenix player to win). That's not MvC3; that's some other game. I'm not interested in that other game. | ||
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O-ops
United States4236 Posts
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bajabaja
245 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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Scribble
2077 Posts
On July 31 2011 16:11 acker wrote: Pheonix had her in-air actions limited to one and Wolverine's dive kick got nerfed hard in UMVC3, according to the current build, along the X-factor and zoning redesigns. It's going to be very, very different, if the fan-made changelogs are accurate. Claiming that something isn't broken off of non-evidence is fundamentally a bad way to balance a game, when evidence is overwhelming to the contrary. Since the game is being revamped in November, what matters is if she's broken now. And she most certainly is. If you're going to claim that someone might invent anti-Pheonix technology that makes her non-broken between here and November, I'd like evidence. Something tells me that you'd never use the same argument for why Reapers should have their build time reverted to twenty-five seconds and the Nitro Packs moved back to T1. My whole point is that the UMVC3 changes are knee jerk reactions and that there isn't enough data to conclude that she is definitely broken. I would, AS A ZERG, argue that the 5-rax reaper nerf was probably too hasty. If the strategy had prevailed until say, 1-2 months ago with nobody managing to even put a dent in it, then yes, maybe a tweak is in order. Phoenix on the other hand, is already looking considerably less dominant than she did a few months ago. Also, here's a question: Should have Blizzard have nerfed Protoss into the ground in BW in 2007 after Bisu turned everything upside down? By your own logic, they totally should have because there was no evidence that people were going to figure out how to combat Protoss at that point. I know it sucks to lose to something and feel helpless, and I know it isn't fun to lose to a strat or character that doesn't *feel* balanced, but you can't just scream for nerfs immediately. | ||
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
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sung_moon
United States10110 Posts
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Islandsnake
United States679 Posts
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