|
Actually I think Dirk has to be 1st All-Team NBA over Durant. When I said earlier in the year Rose nor Durant are top 10 NBA players people howled.
I was talking with one of my friends who's also pretty knowledgeable about the NBA and he said this series plus Memphis exposed some major holes in Durant's game that other superstars don't have.
First question, which partly alleviates blame on Russel Westbrook:
Remember way back when I said if you want to win the championship it's almost always a rule you need 2 top tier ball handlers ?
Notice OKC very rarely lets Durant bring up the ball or initiate the offense when it's not a high screen? I think his ball handling abilities are sub par and thats why they are having trouble offensively at times. They spend a ton of clock time running him around to get him the ball instead of just letting him initiate.
|
So I'm not sure if it's a case of consensus or fake consensus (a few highly vocal people), so what do most people think about the officiating?
I tried to make it a neutral poll. There are two ways I could ask, whether the officiating is good in an absolute sense, or good relative to other years. I feel asking relative to other years would probably get more meaningful results, + Show Spoiler [fairly innocuous comment, but vote first] +as someone who just hates officiating would just rate it very bad every year.
Poll: Rate the 2011 NBA playoff officiating relative to recent yearsAverage (11) 44% Bad (below average) (6) 24% Good (above average) (5) 20% Very good (2) 8% Very bad (1) 4% 25 total votes Your vote: Rate the 2011 NBA playoff officiating relative to recent years (Vote): Very good
(Vote): Good (above average)
(Vote): Average
(Vote): Bad (below average)
(Vote): Very bad
+ Show Spoiler [more comments, vote first] +I'm not sure whether average should include Tim Donaghy allegations as standard or outliers, so hopefully people used their judgement
|
On May 24 2011 16:00 Ace wrote:
Actually I think Dirk has to be 1st All-Team NBA over Durant. When I said earlier in the year Rose nor Durant are top 10 NBA players people howled.
I was talking with one of my friends who's also pretty knowledgeable about the NBA and he said this series plus Memphis exposed some major holes in Durant's game that other superstars don't have.
First question, which partly alleviates blame on Russel Westbrook:
Remember way back when I said if you want to win the championship it's almost always a rule you need 2 top tier ball handlers ?
Notice OKC very rarely lets Durant bring up the ball or initiate the offense when it's not a high screen? I think his ball handling abilities are sub par and thats why they are having trouble offensively at times. They spend a ton of clock time running him around to get him the ball instead of just letting him initiate.
Bah more championship teams need ____ rules based on high covariance variables. Two weeks ago people were thinking the grizzlies might get a championship, and people conveniently forgot all the rules.
So how about, 2004 Pistons? Chauncey was the only top tier ball handler.
2003 Spurs, this was when Parker and Manu were pretty new.
Are we assuming any competent point guard is a top tier ball handler?
|
Like what Magic Johnson said, Dirk is THE MVP of the playoffs so far. Amazing.
|
On May 24 2011 16:16 igotmyown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 16:00 Ace wrote:
Actually I think Dirk has to be 1st All-Team NBA over Durant. When I said earlier in the year Rose nor Durant are top 10 NBA players people howled.
I was talking with one of my friends who's also pretty knowledgeable about the NBA and he said this series plus Memphis exposed some major holes in Durant's game that other superstars don't have.
First question, which partly alleviates blame on Russel Westbrook:
Remember way back when I said if you want to win the championship it's almost always a rule you need 2 top tier ball handlers ?
Notice OKC very rarely lets Durant bring up the ball or initiate the offense when it's not a high screen? I think his ball handling abilities are sub par and thats why they are having trouble offensively at times. They spend a ton of clock time running him around to get him the ball instead of just letting him initiate. Bah more championship teams need ____ rules based on high covariance variables. Two weeks ago people were thinking the grizzlies might get a championship, and people conveniently forgot all the rules. So how about, 2004 Pistons? Chauncey was the only top tier ball handler. 2003 Spurs, this was when Parker and Manu were pretty new. Are we assuming any competent point guard is a top tier ball handler?
Well pretty much most NBA PGs are top tier ball handlers and can initiate the offense. But 2004 Pistons Chauncey and Rip could bring the ball up safely. Even so that one team is the exception to a really good strategy.
|
If even the US media is admitting Dirk is playing like an MVP, you know he must be doing something special! In recent years I've been really frustrated at how underrated he was, and I'm happy to see everyone come to their senses.
The thing that's impressive about him though, is not this playoff run or his clutchness in late game situation. It's the fact that he's been so consistant all these years. It's the same for Duncan, people will always underrate how good you need to be to lead a contending team every year.
|
On May 24 2011 13:47 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 13:38 Signet wrote:On May 24 2011 13:31 bigjenk wrote:
Once again portland fan, dissapointed west fan though as dirks shooting has been the only noteworthy thing happening in this series, I would love to see dirk and kidd as well as terry win a ring but i have been dissapointed in the shit reffing the nba has had for the past 10 or so years since they gave offensive players free reign. The only thing that has promoted is successful soft players and horribly inconsistent reffing since everything is a foul now. Actually I do agree with this. Maybe it is a hazy memory, but I don't remember soft bs fouls like these during the Jordan era, especially late 80s-early 90s. Basketball is a much better and much more watchable product since the rule changes. This concept of "soft" is so couched in nostalgia, revisionist history and vague xenophobia. Nobody should enjoy 1990's basketball (except Jordan and Olajuwan) more than they enjoy basketball now. The game is more fluid and easier to watch.
I completely disagree. If anything it lead to more individuallistic play, since no one can stop any drive. It leads to ridiculous situations like in Dallas/OKC game 3 when at some point every play was just Westbrook alone, dribbling towards the basket and being bailed out by a call despite creating nothing.
I didn't particularly like Jordan's Bulls, but they had a pretty nice offense and they knew how to play collectively (as do Bryant's Lakers - sometimes). But if you look at some of today's teams, it's just plain ugly. Iso into foul call, play after play. I also dislike the way the Euroleague is called, but honestly recently I enjoy their games more, as they are more open and you get the feeling the best team won, not just the one that abused flawed rules better.
|
It's a bit funny to see people bitching at the NBA officiating and how star favored it is, or how much it favors the offense. You know going into the games that the stars will get questionable calls their way, travels and palming are very unlikely to be called, and any 50/50 call will favor the offense. These are a given anytime you turn on an NBA game and have been that way at least for the last 10-15 years.It's a shame but officiating plays a huge part in NBA games.
If you don't like it, don't watch it. Watch college basketball instead. They are much more balanced in officiating between offense and defense. It's weird to me that people put themselves into situations where they are going to get pissed off and frustrated. If you're going to watch the NBA, you need to accept the way it's played currently or you're going to be an unhappy spectator.
Also, don't kid yourself, previous styles of basketball were very dirty. The pistons in the 80's were dirty as fuck, Laimbeer was a straight up thug that enforced the bad boys to a couple of titles. Pick your poison.
|
On May 24 2011 19:39 zerglingsfolife wrote:
It's a bit funny to see people bitching at the NBA officiating and how star favored it is, or how much it favors the offense. You know going into the games that the stars will get questionable calls their way, travels and palming are very unlikely to be called, and any 50/50 call will favor the offense. These are a given anytime you turn on an NBA game and have been that way at least for the last 10-15 years.It's a shame but officiating plays a huge part in NBA games.
If you don't like it, don't watch it. Watch college basketball instead. They are much more balanced in officiating between offense and defense. It's weird to me that people put themselves into situations where they are going to get pissed off and frustrated. If you're going to watch the NBA, you need to accept the way it's played currently or you're going to be an unhappy spectator.
Also, don't kid yourself, previous styles of basketball were very dirty. The pistons in the 80's were dirty as fuck, Laimbeer was a straight up thug that enforced the bad boys to a couple of titles. Pick your poison.
We're bitching because it doesn't have to be this way. You're right, we could watch College or the Euroleague, which are better, but they're both over and the NBA is still the biggest stage. As a basketball fan I want the best, most competitive league to be fair.
|
It may not have to be that way, but it will be that way. It's good for marketing when stars perform well. It's a lot easier to build up a matchup like Kobe vs Dirk or try to get fans in the stands when Lebron is playing. It's much harder to sell jerseys, get high tv ratings, and sell tickets when the team has a bunch of good players but no exceptional ones. Star power and star favored calls won't be disappearing from the NBA anytime soon.
|
I (sadly) agree, but it's not just about star calls which you can find in any league (and I still don't want to believe it's a specific instruction from the league to protect stars; refs are just biased, as we all are). It's about balance between offense and defense.
When the games are called like this it removes the sense that the players are doing something exceptional. At some point even the casual fan will get bored watching a Lebron free throw fest. Chinese fans will stop buying jerseys when they realise there's a new wannabe Jordan emerging every 3 or 4 years.
|
On May 24 2011 13:41 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 13:32 Anda wrote:On May 24 2011 13:16 Brees wrote:
doesnt even matter who wins this series, heat/bulls are just going to shit on them. West doesnt play defense. Reg Season: Mavs 2 - 0 Heat Reg Season. how's that working out for the bulls?
Let's bring extended series into the NBA! Yeah baby, 4-2 Bulls, we're going to the NBA Finals! :D
Jokes aside, the Mavs are playing extremely well at the moment (in other words; winning games) - would be fun to see Kidd & Dirk get a ring before they retire!
|
Dallas are defending Durant really well, but I agree with Ace in that the last two series has exposed some flaws he needs to work on. His ball handling isn't very strong and it impacts on his ability to get to the rim. He's so good at coming off that high screen and hitting his shots, but if he isn't making that shot consistently like tha last two games he doesn't have a great post of penetration game to back up (at least from what I've seen).
But in saying that, OKC has a major problem with their offence since Green left. Sure they're stronger on D with Perkins, but with a sometimes brilliant but always inconsistent second option in Westbrook and a third option in... Ibaka? Dallas is shutting Durant down with some well executed doubles and leaving it up to Westbrook and co to beat them.
I still don't know why they're not trying to double Dirk more... Sure they have some pretty handy shooting options around him, but can't they at least give it a shot? Watching Dirk pound on poor old Nick Collison again and again is painful to watch.
|
On May 24 2011 21:40 RowdierBob wrote:
Dallas are defending Durant really well, but I agree with Ace in that the last two series has exposed some flaws he needs to work on. His ball handling isn't very strong and it impacts on his ability to get to the rim. He's so good at coming off that high screen and hitting his shots, but if he isn't making that shot consistently like tha last two games he doesn't have a great post of penetration game to back up (at least from what I've seen).
But in saying that, OKC has a major problem with their offence since Green left. Sure they're stronger on D with Perkins, but with a sometimes brilliant but always inconsistent second option in Westbrook and a third option in... Ibaka? Dallas is shutting Durant down with some well executed doubles and leaving it up to Westbrook and co to beat them.
I still don't know why they're not trying to double Dirk more... Sure they have some pretty handy shooting options around him, but can't they at least give it a shot? Watching Dirk pound on poor old Nick Collison again and again is painful to watch.
Dirk is a great passer, and most of Dallas' squad can make you pay for double teaming so consistently. They have Terry, Peja, Barea, and Kidd, all of which have very solid 3 pt %, and Marion and Chandler are both good passers and finishers at the basket. Not to mention Dirk is basically doing nothing but shooting heavily guarded jump shots. He is just so ridiculously on fire that you almost have to play pure ball-denial defense, which is basically impossible in the NBA. No team will let you get away with consistently double teaming a great passer 20 feet from the basket.
|
On May 24 2011 21:40 RowdierBob wrote:
But in saying that, OKC has a major problem with their offence since Green left. Sure they're stronger on D with Perkins, but with a sometimes brilliant but always inconsistent second option in Westbrook and a third option in... Ibaka?
James "BeardObili" Harden can be awesome... wish he had the ball more.
|
Harden has played a good game until he fouled out and after that Dallas started their huge come back. OKC has a hard time playing Dallas half court. They did a good job pushing the ball every possession early in the game but they adopted to the slow half court tempo of Dallas late in the game which really was the reason Dallas defense on Durant worked so well.
|
On May 24 2011 13:49 bigjenk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 13:32 Anda wrote:On May 24 2011 13:16 Brees wrote:
doesnt even matter who wins this series, heat/bulls are just going to shit on them. West doesnt play defense. Reg Season: Mavs 2 - 0 Heat reg season =/= playoffs. Bulls were a pretty easily 3-0 over heat. Sadly dallas doesn't match up there for a playoff series against the heat. Marion, dirk and peja cant match up with lebron, and kidd playing allows them to use bibby a lot more. If you have watched much mavs basketball dirk isn't nearly as good when he has to play d. Against the thunder he can sit on collison, ibaka etc and half ass it. And secondly dirk still is soft on the boards, he will get outrebounded by bosh and haslem no problem and i don't see the heat bailing them out as the thunder did consistently. But then again with dirk shooting so hot and the calls he gets he could carry hard.
I don't get it how people can be so stupid. Mavs/Bulls > Heat. 
|
On May 24 2011 16:00 Ace wrote:
Actually I think Dirk has to be 1st All-Team NBA over Durant. When I said earlier in the year Rose nor Durant are top 10 NBA players people howled.
I'm curious. Who are your top 10 NBA players?
|
On May 24 2011 20:10 MilesTeg wrote:
I (sadly) agree, but it's not just about star calls which you can find in any league (and I still don't want to believe it's a specific instruction from the league to protect stars; refs are just biased, as we all are). It's about balance between offense and defense.
When the games are called like this it removes the sense that the players are doing something exceptional. At some point even the casual fan will get bored watching a Lebron free throw fest. Chinese fans will stop buying jerseys when they realise there's a new wannabe Jordan emerging every 3 or 4 years.
WTF why does it have to be Chinese? why insult them? what did they do to you? why you assume they are stupid and can't see which player is a legit player and which is a flopper that live on the line due to favorable calls by the refs? That's fucking racist 
|
On May 24 2011 19:26 MilesTeg wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2011 13:47 slyboogie wrote:On May 24 2011 13:38 Signet wrote:On May 24 2011 13:31 bigjenk wrote:
Once again portland fan, dissapointed west fan though as dirks shooting has been the only noteworthy thing happening in this series, I would love to see dirk and kidd as well as terry win a ring but i have been dissapointed in the shit reffing the nba has had for the past 10 or so years since they gave offensive players free reign. The only thing that has promoted is successful soft players and horribly inconsistent reffing since everything is a foul now. Actually I do agree with this. Maybe it is a hazy memory, but I don't remember soft bs fouls like these during the Jordan era, especially late 80s-early 90s. Basketball is a much better and much more watchable product since the rule changes. This concept of "soft" is so couched in nostalgia, revisionist history and vague xenophobia. Nobody should enjoy 1990's basketball (except Jordan and Olajuwan) more than they enjoy basketball now. The game is more fluid and easier to watch. I completely disagree. If anything it lead to more individuallistic play, since no one can stop any drive. It leads to ridiculous situations like in Dallas/OKC game 3 when at some point every play was just Westbrook alone, dribbling towards the basket and being bailed out by a call despite creating nothing. I didn't particularly like Jordan's Bulls, but they had a pretty nice offense and they knew how to play collectively (as do Bryant's Lakers - sometimes). But if you look at some of today's teams, it's just plain ugly. Iso into foul call, play after play. I also dislike the way the Euroleague is called, but honestly recently I enjoy their games more, as they are more open and you get the feeling the best team won, not just the one that abused flawed rules better.
You have it backwards. The 90s (and the very early aughts) lived and died on isolation. The change in rules and Steven Nash+Chris Paul and even guys like Deron Williams and Lebron James have led to a much more beautiful game. I have no idea how anyone can say today's game is less ugly than the 90s, just go watch some old videos, you'll be annoyed by sub 90 possession games and really really physical play that changes the entire game.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
