EPTNBA Playoffs (2010-2011) - Page 109
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:45 Miles_Edgeworth wrote: I'm curious. Who are your top 10 NBA players? Dwyane Wade Lebron James Dwight Howard Chris Paul Kobe Bryant Kevin Garnett Dirk Nowitzki Deron Williams Pau Gasol I think before I had Tim Duncan as #10 but that was like in January | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
Zach Randolph, could make a case for him against most of the bottom 5. Other people would put Amare and Melo there. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Zach Randolph isn't top 10 and neither is Carmelo or Amare. They are great scorers but none of them can change the game without scoring. Everyone on that list can with the arguable exception of Dirk - and he's a better scorer than the other 3. Only Carmelo could score better than Dirk but he isn't consistent enough. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:53 Ace wrote: It's in order but the only one I'd move is Garnett with Kobe and maybe Dirk. I'd go a differnt direction with this one. It is, of course an interesting and subjective subject but here it is: Tier 1: 1. Lebron 2. Howard Tier 2: 3. Nowitzki 4. Wade 5. Paul 6. Durant Tier 3: 7. Bryant 8. Gasol (Pau) 9. Rose 10. DWill | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
@clutz: Only reason I won't do Tiers is because it's really hard to argue whether guys like Wade or Kobe belong in Tier 1 or Tier 2. Are we looking at THIS year for Tiers or say, past 3-4 years? If thats the case Kobe could go both ways, same with Wade depending on how much stock we put in 08-09 vs this year. Durant is definitely not a top tier superstar the likes of any of those guys and neither is Rose. If Kobe and D-Will are in Tier 3 then they are below them. Good scorers (great at times for Durant) but not enough impact anywhere else in the game to be counted among those guys. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14912 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
I agree with you about Dirk, Deron, Garnett, and Kobe. Most are past their prime, yes, but the threat they still pose on a nightly basis is insane, its matchup hell for any coaching squad. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
EDIT: Ah yea Holcan, thats who it was. I think I had Bosh as top 10 or right outside of it. I had Pau over Amar'e and this is before the playoffs. Pau's bad performance not withstanding he was better than Amar'e this year and the past 2 years. Blake Griffin is not in the conversation at all. Wait a year or two for him. Neither is Z-Bo. Aldridge...not sure yet. Maybe. Monta Ellis - not going to go there. That would start a flame war :D Pau is consistently good. Don't know how you can say you can't see him doing it on a consistent basis when he's more consistent than any of the guys you listed with the exception of maybe Zach Randolph, Bosh and Aldridge. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:45 Ace wrote: @jmbthirteen: He's still one of, if not the best post and high post defender in the NBA and can still score at will. He can still defend PFs and Center and even cover wing players on the PnR. How is he not top 10? His last 4 years in Boston have resulted in one of the best regular season stretches in NBA history when healthy and they almost made the Finals 3 years straight until his injury showed just how valuable he was. No one except Tim Duncan was as valuable on BOTH sides of the ball for the past decade. @clutz: Only reason I won't do Tiers is because it's really hard to argue whether guys like Wade or Kobe belong in Tier 1 or Tier 2. Are we looking at THIS year for Tiers or say, past 3-4 years? If thats the case Kobe could go both ways, same with Wade depending on how much stock we put in 08-09 vs this year. Durant is definitely not a top tier superstar the likes of any of those guys and neither is Rose. If Kobe and D-Will are in Tier 3 then they are below them. Good scorers (great at times for Durant) but not enough impact anywhere else in the game to be counted among those guys. I'm talking about right now, if I was building a team for these playoffs (a hypothetical playoffs that doesn't include Gasol's weird funk). If you are talking about anything else (as in including history) it is hard to determine the cutoff. If we are talking recent history its Bryant/Duncan easily as 1 and 1a, but everyone else depends on when you set the cutoff. Garnetts been great recently, but Shaq was much better before, and people like Wade/Lebron only started being super impactful 5-6 years ago and Durant/Rose even less... Its a mess unless you are talking about right now. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Chris Paul Dwyane Wade Lebron James Kevin Garnett Dwight Howard Lebron and Wade have only been in the league 8 years. For Wade his impact started his second year, for Lebron I'd say 05. If I could base it on the past 2-3 seasons the only change I'd PROBABLY make is Gasol in for Dwight. Better offense, still a solid post defense with him and Garnett and I'd have even more floor spacing for Wade and Lebron. My team would also have 5 excellent passers and highly efficient scorers. | ||
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
On May 24 2011 13:47 slyboogie wrote: Basketball is a much better and much more watchable product since the rule changes. This concept of "soft" is so couched in nostalgia, revisionist history and vague xenophobia. Nobody should enjoy 1990's basketball (except Jordan and Olajuwan) more than they enjoy basketball now. The game is more fluid and easier to watch. I agree that a lot of basketball in the 90's (especially the latter half) was pretty unwatchable, but how can you say that basketball now is better than basketball in the Bird/Magic and early Jordan years? Between Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, Jordan, Barkley, and all of the other great players in that era it was certainly a much better league than in the early 2000's. Only recently has the talent in the league been anywhere close, with the influx of talented young players in the past few years. I hate the rules changes because 1) it ruins the pace and flow of the game when you have players going to the line so much (and this is exacerbated by the amount of flopping etc. that goes on) and 2) it messes things up historically because free throw shooting is such an 'efficient' scoring method that it makes players like Wade, LeBron, etc. seem much closer to Jordan than they really are. Ace rocking the anti-Rose bias, as usual. Also it seems like your top10 is based as much if not more on the players' historical performance than on just the current season, which is what the all-NBA teams are (supposed to be) based on. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:57 Ace wrote: Durant, Melo, Rose (dear god), even Wade, Lebron, Kobe - all of them have had some bad shooting nights. Who this playoffs besides Dwight Howard and Dirk has had a string of monstrous shooting nights? EDIT: Ah yea Holcan, thats who it was. I think I had Bosh as top 10 or right outside of it. I had Pau over Amar'e and this is before the playoffs. Pau's bad performance not withstanding he was better than Amar'e this year and the past 2 years. Blake Griffin is not in the conversation at all. Wait a year or two for him. Neither is Z-Bo. Aldridge...not sure yet. Maybe. Monta Ellis - not going to go there. That would start a flame war :D Pau is consistently good. Don't know how you can say you can't see him doing it on a consistent basis when he's more consistent than any of the guys you listed with the exception of maybe Zach Randolph, Bosh and Aldridge. I sincerely agree that Blake isnt in this conversation of top 10 (yet) but I would consider his year this year, as good, or better than Paus. Pau was great for the first three months, and then the Lakers hit their "slump" and he was a majour reason why. Aldridge was just consistent as hell, he put in work in the offseason, and even after being labelled the teams bona-fide #1 threat still continued to dominate his match-up. Even Portland faired better against Dallas than LA, or even OKC up till now, and Aldridge working Dirk was a main reason why. 40 guards and wing players helped too, dont think im over hyping Aldridge, I understand they only won a game when Roy stepped up. Monta, he is just baller. Just Baller as fuck. Does his play risky D by jumping passing lanes inflating his stats? Yes. Is that because thats GS style and with proper coaching he would be able to adopt a new style? Yes. Imagine Monte if he has Thibs as a coach, he wouldnt see playtime without at least playing the defense Rose does, and he definitely has the athleticism to do so. I consider him and Rose to be the two most similar guards in terms of finishing ability, and over all basketball IQ. Paus a great player, and hell of a threat, but its mostly the Lakers powerful lineup to place him at PF which gives him such a gifted advantage. He is like the most skilled player on a good team who is a looter in a riot because of how much opportunity he is gifted with (thanks triangle !) | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
On May 25 2011 05:31 Ace wrote: I think Monta Ellis has to play risky defense though because it's Golden State. But that's another discussion for another time. Thats what I was saying, give him a good coach and system to buy into, and he has enough physical gifts, and natural talent to become a great two way player. | ||
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Stoids
United States636 Posts
On May 25 2011 05:31 Ace wrote: I think Monta Ellis has to play risky defense though because it's Golden State. But that's another discussion for another time. I don't want to get into Monta Ellis discussions either  .On the topic of the Warriors though <3 <3 Stephen Curry <3 <3 | ||
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