On April 29 2011 23:30 Megatronn wrote: This Australian guy sucking Barca's dick is pathetic. Football is a contact sport, except for when Barca play apparently. This is why I respect the EPL so much more then other leagues, whatever, i'll get behind Man U for the final again. The ref can't fuck up the final, Barca might actually have to not ask the ref for free cards, should be a good game ;D.
@tyCe: Stop writing walls of text, I pretty much stopped reading after you said Chelsea bullied Barca in the semis, obviously they didn't deserve those 3-4 penalties since they were bullying poor Barca right? Aww
TL;DR Get off Barcas dick.
There was only 1 penalty lol. A couple fouls outside the box and a ball-to-hand. Also, I'll write what I want because quite frankly, I don't give a shit what you do or think.
Came across a video of Messi's play in the last clasico when browing zonalmarking. It even shows a lot of fouls (just look at every shove, grab, pull, push, kick) that weren't called but w/e, c'est la vie.
It's a shame that these players who so many look up to are doing this stuff. This is not fair play from any of the teams, this is sad and it's hurting football(soccer).
On April 29 2011 23:30 Megatronn wrote: This Australian guy sucking Barca's dick is pathetic. Football is a contact sport, except for when Barca play apparently. This is why I respect the EPL so much more then other leagues, whatever, i'll get behind Man U for the final again. The ref can't fuck up the final, Barca might actually have to not ask the ref for free cards, should be a good game ;D.
@tyCe: Stop writing walls of text, I pretty much stopped reading after you said Chelsea bullied Barca in the semis, obviously they didn't deserve those 3-4 penalties since they were bullying poor Barca right? Aww
TL;DR Get off Barcas dick.
There was only 1 penalty lol. A couple fouls outside the box and a ball-to-hand. Also, I'll write what I want because quite frankly, I don't give a shit what you do or think.
1 of those isn't a penalty but that still leaves 3 - 4 crystal clear penalties all of which the ref saw.
So they fouled Messi? At least they blew the whistle even when he dove, Ronaldo got fouled just as much and most of the time they didn't even call a foul. I'm done posting though, told myself I wasn't gonna get involved because I wouldn't be able to change anyones mind. Manchester's just gonna have to teach them a lesson about "real" football, not this diving screaming in the refs face shit.
They're just reacting to brutal, bone-breaking challenges and needed to get the referee's attention in order to save their lives! Think about what would happen to their families if Marcelo chopped Busquet's head off with his pinky finger!!! - Tyce
On April 29 2011 23:21 Stimp wrote: o please, calling it intentional violence is such an overreaction. Barcelona can give it (see that gif someone posted earlier) but can't take it.
lol, of course it's intentional violence. Did you not watch the last game? RM played with "strategic thugness." and are you going to seriously try to say that Barcelona can dish out (as many) fouls as RM and similar teams?? You get shown a couple youtube vids of barca players fouling (obv in football there will be mistimed fouls) and you jump up and down for joy thinking you've got the proof. What's sad is if properly searched you can probably make a 10 minute compilation of RM fouls, while i'm 100% positive you can't with Barca. That's simply not what they're about. That's not their style. Why would a team as good as barca need to foul? The reason why they play act alot (too much sometimes imo) is because teams like RM are out to hurt them and "slow down their momentum." What exactly are you trying to say? Also, you have to be crazy to think that what Pepe did was not a red card, or if ANYTHING a very very lenient yellow... but 90% of the time that is a straight red, no doubt.
On April 29 2011 23:30 Megatronn wrote: This Australian guy sucking Barca's dick is pathetic. Football is a contact sport, except for when Barca play apparently. This is why I respect the EPL so much more then other leagues, whatever, i'll get behind Man U for the final again. The ref can't fuck up the final, Barca might actually have to not ask the ref for free cards, should be a good game ;D.
@tyCe: Stop writing walls of text, I pretty much stopped reading after you said Chelsea bullied Barca in the semis, obviously they didn't deserve those 3-4 penalties since they were bullying poor Barca right? Aww
TL;DR Get off Barcas dick.
Another great example of someone telling someone they're Barca dick suckers because they don't believe their Anti-Barca view... See what i mean, honestly, tyCe is making a perfectly legit point about barca's play acting. It's about continually getting the fouls called. The ref is not awarding more or extra because they play-act. It seems to me like barca want to counteract RM's thug like demeanor by making sure that every single time they get fouled they get the call. You see it time and time again, if a player doesn't go down easy, sometimes they WILL NOT get the call. And in a game as important as this, you cannot take those chances because an illegitimate counter attack by RM could be deadly as we all know how potent counter attackers CR7 and Dmaria are. And frankly especially against RM where it's obvious their tactic, which is play 10-man defense and rough up barca i think some of you are taking it waaaaay too far by calling Barca a disgrace and other shit. It seems like you guys are clouded by bias and not actually valuing beautiful football.
We will see against Man U how much barca play acts. Im willing to bet money that it wont even be to a 1/6 of the degree because ManU are not run by a dirty tactician like mourihno who sends out his band of thugs to do harm. Man U will try to play their game and fouls will be to a minimal and barca will have absolutely zero reason to play act mainly because they don't need to to win. If the other team wants to play football, then barca will play football. If the other teams wants to play anti football (rm and mourihno) then barca may as well adjust to that crap by over exaggerating fouls so that they make sure they are called every time.
I don't want to say that i think this is how football should be, fouls and play acting, because i hate that shit, but i'm just saying where i believe barca to be coming from.
On April 29 2011 23:30 Megatronn wrote: This Australian guy sucking Barca's dick is pathetic. Football is a contact sport, except for when Barca play apparently. This is why I respect the EPL so much more then other leagues, whatever, i'll get behind Man U for the final again. The ref can't fuck up the final, Barca might actually have to not ask the ref for free cards, should be a good game ;D.
@tyCe: Stop writing walls of text, I pretty much stopped reading after you said Chelsea bullied Barca in the semis, obviously they didn't deserve those 3-4 penalties since they were bullying poor Barca right? Aww
TL;DR Get off Barcas dick.
There was only 1 penalty lol. A couple fouls outside the box and a ball-to-hand. Also, I'll write what I want because quite frankly, I don't give a shit what you do or think.
1 of those isn't a penalty but that still leaves 3 - 4 crystal clear penalties all of which the ref saw.
So they fouled Messi? At least they blew the whistle even when he dove, Ronaldo got fouled just as much and most of the time they didn't even call a foul. I'm done posting though, told myself I wasn't gonna get involved because I wouldn't be able to change anyones mind. Manchester's just gonna have to teach them a lesson about "real" football, not this diving screaming in the refs face shit.
Wow. I remember that game. Fuck man 2 clear hand balls in the box. :/ As for the fouls, i definitely think all 3 are questionable, but not for sure. If anything the first one by Dani, followed by the first drogba one look to be the closest to a penalty, but honestly those kinds of plays can go either way. The second drogba run abidal clearly gets ball, amirite? Anyway though, brings back bad memories that game ;(
On April 29 2011 23:21 Stimp wrote: o please, calling it intentional violence is such an overreaction. Barcelona can give it (see that gif someone posted earlier) but can't take it.
lol, of course it's intentional violence. Did you not watch the last game? RM played with "strategic thugness." and are you going to seriously try to say that Barcelona can dish out (as many) fouls as RM and similar teams?? You get shown a couple youtube vids of barca players fouling (obv in football there will be mistimed fouls) and you jump up and down for joy thinking you've got the proof. What's sad is if properly searched you can probably make a 10 minute compilation of RM fouls, while i'm 100% positive you can't with Barca. That's simply not what they're about. That's not their style. Why would a team as good as barca need to foul? The reason why they play act alot (too much sometimes imo) is because teams like RM are out to hurt them and "slow down their momentum." What exactly are you trying to say? Also, you have to be crazy to think that what Pepe did was not a red card, or if ANYTHING a very very lenient yellow... but 90% of the time that is a straight red, no doubt.
On April 29 2011 23:30 Megatronn wrote: This Australian guy sucking Barca's dick is pathetic. Football is a contact sport, except for when Barca play apparently. This is why I respect the EPL so much more then other leagues, whatever, i'll get behind Man U for the final again. The ref can't fuck up the final, Barca might actually have to not ask the ref for free cards, should be a good game ;D.
@tyCe: Stop writing walls of text, I pretty much stopped reading after you said Chelsea bullied Barca in the semis, obviously they didn't deserve those 3-4 penalties since they were bullying poor Barca right? Aww
TL;DR Get off Barcas dick.
Another great example of someone telling someone they're Barca dick suckers because they don't believe their Anti-Barca view... See what i mean, honestly, tyCe is making a perfectly legit point about barca's play acting. It's about continually getting the fouls called. The ref is not awarding more or extra because they play-act. It seems to me like barca want to counteract RM's thug like demeanor by making sure that every single time they get fouled they get the call. You see it time and time again, if a player doesn't go down easy, sometimes they WILL NOT get the call. And in a game as important as this, you cannot take those chances because an illegitimate counter attack by RM could be deadly as we all know how potent counter attackers CR7 and Dmaria are. And frankly especially against RM where it's obvious their tactic, which is play 10-man defense and rough up barca i think some of you are taking it waaaaay too far by calling Barca a disgrace and other shit. It seems like you guys are clouded by bias and not actually valuing beautiful football.
We will see against Man U how much barca play acts. Im willing to bet money that it wont even be to a 1/6 of the degree because ManU are not run by a dirty tactician like mourihno who sends out his band of thugs to do harm. Man U will try to play their game and fouls will be to a minimal and barca will have absolutely zero reason to play act mainly because they don't need to to win. If the other team wants to play football, then barca will play football. If the other teams wants to play anti football (rm and mourihno) then barca may as well adjust to that crap by over exaggerating fouls so that they make sure they are called every time.
I don't want to say that i think this is how football should be, fouls and play acting, because i hate that shit, but i'm just saying where i believe barca to be coming from.
I do indeed support and value beautiful football. My team won 5 - 1 against Villareal yesterday in the uefa cup, there was some beautiful football, with 1 dive that got the player a yellow for doing it, but it was deserved.
Man U is a tough physical team as well, so we'll see. Not commenting on most of your post because I realized long ago arguing on the internet gets you no where xD. Sometimes I can't not post but I try.
You keep saying the same things...You think we're the ones clouded by bias? If we are biased, then you must admit that you are just as, if not more biased. We'll see how much Barca play acts against Man U? They won't, unless they are struggling in the match and need help. You've still ignored the fact that they play acted against Wenger, Hiddink, and Copenhagen who didn't play dirty at all against them. We ALL KNOW that Mourinho plays physically. Physical contact is part of the game, and players will get yellows and reds for it. However when it happens every. single. game. that Barca have a chance of losing it becomes more than just refereeing mistakes. You say it's that Mourinho's physical style that gets the red cards and poor ref decisions but it's not - it's any game that Barca struggles the ref bails them out, you aren't looking broadly enough.
On April 30 2011 01:37 Runnin wrote:You say it's that Mourinho's physical style that gets the red cards and poor ref decisions but it's not - it's any game that Barca struggles the ref bails them out, you aren't looking broadly enough.
...really... So the yellows/red card worthy fouls committed on Barca were because the ref was bailing them out? I guess if you were ref, you wouldn't have dished out any cards and allow RM to play the way they were. You gotta be joking me. Fouls are fouls, refs will give cards for thug demeanor just like Pepe's sorry to say. I understand that in the past Barca seem to get the benefit with refs to a degree (very obvious in the Chelsea game and also RVP retarded red imo) but it's not like there's some conspiracy for barca to always win. It just so happens they play and they win alot because they're usually the better team. Are you really trying to say that the ref helped RM lose by giving Pepe a red? Common.... give me a break. Barca play act like babies to RM's dirty play all the while they continually wipe the floor with RM the entire game, and finally the ref issues an absolutely standard as hell Red to pepe and people jump off the wall calling CHEATS CHEATS CHEATS....really?
edit: Also i think ive watched most of barca recent games and i dont remember them play acting against arsenal, copenhagen, etc as much as you're trying to make it seem. I rarely notice the amount of play acting during those games, but against RM i do. So stop trying to make it seem like they do it every game, which is far from the truth.
On April 30 2011 01:37 Runnin wrote:You say it's that Mourinho's physical style that gets the red cards and poor ref decisions but it's not - it's any game that Barca struggles the ref bails them out, you aren't looking broadly enough.
...really... So the yellows/red card worthy fouls committed on Barca were because the ref was bailing them out. I guess if you were ref, you wouldn't have dished out any cards and allow RM to play the way they were. You gotta be joking me. Fouls are fouls, refs will give cards for thug demeanor just like Pepe's sorry to say. I understand that in the past Barca seem to get the benefit with refs to a degree (very obvious in the Chelsea game) but it's not like there's some conspiracy for barca to always win. It just so happens they play and they win alot because they're usually the better team. Are you really trying to say that the ref helped RM lose by giving Pepe a red? Common.... give me a break. Barca play act like babies to RM's dirty play, then Barca continually wipe the floor with RM the entire game, and finally the ref issues a absolutely standard as hell Red to pepe and people jump off the wall calling CHEATS CHEATS CHEATS....really?
edit: Also i think ive watched most of barca recent games and i dont remember them play acting against arsenal, copenhagen, etc as much as you're trying to make it seem. I rarely notice the amount of play acting during those games, but against RM i do. So stop trying to make it seem like they do it every game, which is far from the truth.
You are delusional if you think Pepe is an obvious red. Someone earlier posted the exact same challenge on Xabi Alonso in the Copa game that was not given a red. If it was so clear-cut the Barca players would be sent off for the tackle as well - not likely though. Anything in the gray area goes Barca's way, the rules simply aren't applied the same way. Dani Alves and Busquets both kicked balls away after committing fouls this game, but were they carded like Van Persie was? No, and they were way, way more obvious with their intent of slowing the break opportunity. That's just one other example of inconsistent application of rules in Barca's favor.
On April 29 2011 23:21 Stimp wrote: o please, calling it intentional violence is such an overreaction. Barcelona can give it (see that gif someone posted earlier) but can't take it.
lol, of course it's intentional violence. Did you not watch the last game? RM played with "strategic thugness." and are you going to seriously try to say that Barcelona can dish out (as many) fouls as RM and similar teams?? You get shown a couple youtube vids of barca players fouling (obv in football there will be mistimed fouls) and you jump up and down for joy thinking you've got the proof. What's sad is if properly searched you can probably make a 10 minute compilation of RM fouls, while i'm 100% positive you can't with Barca. That's simply not what they're about. That's not their style. Why would a team as good as barca need to foul? The reason why they play act alot (too much sometimes imo) is because teams like RM are out to hurt them and "slow down their momentum." What exactly are you trying to say? Also, you have to be crazy to think that what Pepe did was not a red card, or if ANYTHING a very very lenient yellow... but 90% of the time that is a straight red, no doubt.
Don't put words in my mouth.
Its not intentional violence. At the top level a difference between getting the ball and a foul are slim. With the high defensive pressing style, ofc they are going to foul more because they cant make the perfect tackle 100% of the time. But barcelona make the smallest foul look a lot worse.
Edit: As soon as it starts to look like they might lose or something they start bringing out the play acting
On April 29 2011 23:30 Megatronn wrote: This Australian guy sucking Barca's dick is pathetic. Football is a contact sport, except for when Barca play apparently. This is why I respect the EPL so much more then other leagues, whatever, i'll get behind Man U for the final again. The ref can't fuck up the final, Barca might actually have to not ask the ref for free cards, should be a good game ;D.
@tyCe: Stop writing walls of text, I pretty much stopped reading after you said Chelsea bullied Barca in the semis, obviously they didn't deserve those 3-4 penalties since they were bullying poor Barca right? Aww
TL;DR Get off Barcas dick.
How old is this guy? Football is a contact sport yes, not a leg breaking sport. Some of the fouls madrid did were criminal they were not even debatable, they were blatant the intentional stepping was just the "cherry" on top of the pie., Madrid supporters choose conveniently to cover all this criminal fouls up by criticizing Barcelona's acting. Why don't you talk about that? rofl are you blind or something? You're like Mourinho complain all the time about others, not even looking at what you did.
This is beyond incredible, these people are blind.
They are debatable, if they were criminal then footballs governing bodies would be doing something about these criminal acts. You are over reacting so badly its just getting sad to respond to such stupid allegations. There was only one red card to a madrid player this game and that was the only debatable decision, and was far from a 'leg breaking challenge'.
I just found a post that i think reflects what does really happened, i really like the way Johaldo8 from forum.football.co.uk put his thoughts :
"These El Clasicos are demonstrating the forces of Yin and Yang. Opposite forces colliding. Beauty against the Beast. And thanks to God (dare I say Messi), Beauty won.
Jose Mourinho is an intelligent man. He knows and accepts that Barcelona are superior. So he sets his teams up to destroy Barcelona’s creative play by employing three defensive midfielders, with Ozil and Di Maria also dropping back. So in effect, the Blaugranas have to penetrate a 10 man defensive shield, full of players who are keen to break up the play with niggly and sometimes overly aggressive fouls. And in the two recent meetings, it’s clear that these tactics have worked, as Messi and co have struggled to create many goalscoring chances.
Barcelona are clearly aware of this tactic, so they realise the importance of the referee’s tolerance towards persistent fouling. If the referee allows this to happen, like in the Copa Del Rey final, then Barcelona can’t get their passing game together and their heads will drop in frustration. If the referee is strong and stamps this behaviour out, then it puts Real under pressure knowing that they risk yellow and red cards and Barca can get their tiki-taka passing game going.
This is why Barcelona kept running towards the referee time and again after Real kept ruining the game by breaking up the play. As if to say to Madrid: “If your intention is to foul us, then we’ll overreact so the referee punishes you”. Yes, no one wants to see it, but look at the reason why they did it. And let’s be consistent here: Real were also guilty of diving and surrounding the referee. Talk about Pedro, Alves and Busquets theatrics all you want, but Di Maria is the biggest diver of all - look at how many penalties he’s won for Real Madrid this season. Ronaldo? Say no more. Carvalho, Ramos and Marcelo also go to ground very easily. Remember Crouch’s red card in the quarter final? Marcelo rolled about until he saw the red card come out, then he celebrated and got back up! But Pepe is the biggest scumbag of all of them. He loves to dish out the punishment but dives when he gets caught himself. When Mascherano caught him, he rolled over so many times, he nearly left the stadium.
Mourinho sent his team out super charged, with the clear instruction to destroy Barcelona and not to concede. When the players are pumped up like this, it’s no wonder that yellow and red cards will follow. Was Pepe’s challenge a red card? For me, it was an “orange” card, a borderline case. But what is not in question is that when you go into the tackle like that, studs up over the ball, you’re at the referee’s mercy. Same with Adebayor when he came on, charged up like a bull seeing a red rag. His arms and elbows are flying all over the place…again, you’re running the risk of a red card. Marcelo’s deliberate stamp on Pedro was undeniably a red card, there’s no question about that.
Mourinho asks why his players keep getting sent off against Barcelona. Maybe it’s a by-product of his instruction to his players. How come none of Barcelona’s players get caught up in red card controversies against Real Madrid? Maybe, just maybe, it’s because they actually want to play football, whereas Mourinho, in his own words, said this game “was destined to finish 0-0”, which was his intention all night long.
And that’s my biggest problem with him employing these tactics at Real Madrid. Yes, he’s the best manager in the world, and yes, I’m a massive fan of him. But when you’re at Real Madrid - an institution of football – and you’re going into battle against the ultimate enemy in the grandest match in the world El Clasico, armed with world class players of your own, you have a duty to entertain. Instead, Mourinho serves up this “sh*t on a stick” style of football – a phrase current Real Madrid General Manager Jorge Valdano once used about a Mourinho-Benitez match a few years ago.
No doubt the red card opened up the game, but it still needed two sublime goals to unlock a resolute 10 man defence. Brilliant play by Afellay, and Messi’s lightning quick movement behind Alonso won him the space he needed to prod the ball home through Casillas’s legs. As for the second goal…GENIUS. Pure genius.
Messi was largely kept quiet prior to that, as expected, although he did find Xavi with a brilliant throughball in the first half, but that was it. Ronaldo? I actually felt sorry for him, as Mourinho’s tactics rendered him usesless, unless set pieces came into the equation. I think secretly he’s growing frustrated with these negative tactics. When you win, it’s all good because you have a trophy to show for all your hard work, blood, sweat and tears. But when you lose, what do you have? Nothing. No style and no result – the ultimate embarrassment. Real Madrid’s hopes have virtually died, without them never knowing what could have happened if they showed more ambition.
Whatever your thoughts about this match are, lets agree that for the sake of positive football, the best team won and should progress to Wembley. Barcelona versus Manchester United should make for a far more entertaining spectacle – a spectacle fit for a Champions League final. "
On April 30 2011 03:34 Greem wrote: I just found a post that i think reflects what does really happened, i really like the way Johaldo8 from forum.football.co.uk put his thoughts :
"These El Clasicos are demonstrating the forces of Yin and Yang. Opposite forces colliding. Beauty against the Beast. And thanks to God (dare I say Messi), Beauty won."
As soon as you start your analysis with that it loses all credibility. Both sides have played some beautiful football this season but also some non-beautiful football. Let's look at Pepe; staying on a player all game and keeping a high tempo in pressing is not something everyone can do. It requires a phenomenal amount of concentration and intelligence. Pepe has a lot of talent in that area of his game. Now watch Puyol play the game, again a tremendously talented player. He harrases and niggles at players to put them off and always thinks of the opponents next move.
Now is it beautiful to watch these players play? That is debatable. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no-one can say 100% that good defensive players ruin games. But I expect the majority would say free-flowing games are more exciting.
Crying about defensive play is like crying about 6pool. It's within the rules of the game so it's acceptable. The real problem lies with the rules and the refereeing of the game. Defensive football is sometimes the best way to win a game. This is sometimes the case in a league (if you are the worse team or if it is two top teams playing each other) but nearly always the case in knockout competitions. Unless you are much much better than your opponent it is a good strategy to defend well with lots of pressure. We've seen this in the champions league for many years and also in world cups too.
So what do you expect a manager to do? Not use a strategy that works? In this respect neither of the teams really did anything wrong. Mourinho was not wrong to play defensively in the game, it was the best strategy. But then Barcelona was clever to counter the defensive play with play-acting.
I've been saying this for many years now and in these threads many times. The champions league doesn't work. Football doesn't work in this format and with these rules. The football I watch every week, watching my local team is more exciting than champions league football. The only reason we watch the games is if we get sucked into the drama. But as a spectacle, football is not where it should be. The football associations of the world need to come together and find a ruleset to change football. Take the great aspects of the game; that it's so fun to play in small number, it's a fantastic street game and for kids. Anyone can play football, all you need is a ball and some jumpers for goalposts. And it has such a high skillcap as Messi beautifully shows. How could we have such a fantastic starting point and end up with 90 minutes of frustration at the highest level? It's nonsense.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game" words applicable to so much in life.
EPT
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