On April 30 2011 03:34 Greem wrote: I just found a post that i think reflects what does really happened, i really like the way Johaldo8 from forum.football.co.uk put his thoughts :
"These El Clasicos are demonstrating the forces of Yin and Yang. Opposite forces colliding. Beauty against the Beast. And thanks to God (dare I say Messi), Beauty won.
Jose Mourinho is an intelligent man. He knows and accepts that Barcelona are superior. So he sets his teams up to destroy Barcelona’s creative play by employing three defensive midfielders, with Ozil and Di Maria also dropping back. So in effect, the Blaugranas have to penetrate a 10 man defensive shield, full of players who are keen to break up the play with niggly and sometimes overly aggressive fouls. And in the two recent meetings, it’s clear that these tactics have worked, as Messi and co have struggled to create many goalscoring chances.
Barcelona are clearly aware of this tactic, so they realise the importance of the referee’s tolerance towards persistent fouling. If the referee allows this to happen, like in the Copa Del Rey final, then Barcelona can’t get their passing game together and their heads will drop in frustration. If the referee is strong and stamps this behaviour out, then it puts Real under pressure knowing that they risk yellow and red cards and Barca can get their tiki-taka passing game going.
This is why Barcelona kept running towards the referee time and again after Real kept ruining the game by breaking up the play. As if to say to Madrid: “If your intention is to foul us, then we’ll overreact so the referee punishes you”. Yes, no one wants to see it, but look at the reason why they did it. And let’s be consistent here: Real were also guilty of diving and surrounding the referee. Talk about Pedro, Alves and Busquets theatrics all you want, but Di Maria is the biggest diver of all - look at how many penalties he’s won for Real Madrid this season. Ronaldo? Say no more. Carvalho, Ramos and Marcelo also go to ground very easily. Remember Crouch’s red card in the quarter final? Marcelo rolled about until he saw the red card come out, then he celebrated and got back up! But Pepe is the biggest scumbag of all of them. He loves to dish out the punishment but dives when he gets caught himself. When Mascherano caught him, he rolled over so many times, he nearly left the stadium.
Mourinho sent his team out super charged, with the clear instruction to destroy Barcelona and not to concede. When the players are pumped up like this, it’s no wonder that yellow and red cards will follow. Was Pepe’s challenge a red card? For me, it was an “orange” card, a borderline case. But what is not in question is that when you go into the tackle like that, studs up over the ball, you’re at the referee’s mercy. Same with Adebayor when he came on, charged up like a bull seeing a red rag. His arms and elbows are flying all over the place…again, you’re running the risk of a red card. Marcelo’s deliberate stamp on Pedro was undeniably a red card, there’s no question about that.
Mourinho asks why his players keep getting sent off against Barcelona. Maybe it’s a by-product of his instruction to his players. How come none of Barcelona’s players get caught up in red card controversies against Real Madrid? Maybe, just maybe, it’s because they actually want to play football, whereas Mourinho, in his own words, said this game “was destined to finish 0-0”, which was his intention all night long.
And that’s my biggest problem with him employing these tactics at Real Madrid. Yes, he’s the best manager in the world, and yes, I’m a massive fan of him. But when you’re at Real Madrid - an institution of football – and you’re going into battle against the ultimate enemy in the grandest match in the world El Clasico, armed with world class players of your own, you have a duty to entertain. Instead, Mourinho serves up this “sh*t on a stick” style of football – a phrase current Real Madrid General Manager Jorge Valdano once used about a Mourinho-Benitez match a few years ago.
No doubt the red card opened up the game, but it still needed two sublime goals to unlock a resolute 10 man defence. Brilliant play by Afellay, and Messi’s lightning quick movement behind Alonso won him the space he needed to prod the ball home through Casillas’s legs. As for the second goal…GENIUS. Pure genius.
Messi was largely kept quiet prior to that, as expected, although he did find Xavi with a brilliant throughball in the first half, but that was it. Ronaldo? I actually felt sorry for him, as Mourinho’s tactics rendered him usesless, unless set pieces came into the equation. I think secretly he’s growing frustrated with these negative tactics. When you win, it’s all good because you have a trophy to show for all your hard work, blood, sweat and tears. But when you lose, what do you have? Nothing. No style and no result – the ultimate embarrassment. Real Madrid’s hopes have virtually died, without them never knowing what could have happened if they showed more ambition.
Whatever your thoughts about this match are, lets agree that for the sake of positive football, the best team won and should progress to Wembley. Barcelona versus Manchester United should make for a far more entertaining spectacle – a spectacle fit for a Champions League final. "
I've been saying this for many years now and in these threads many times. The champions league doesn't work. Football doesn't work in this format and with these rules. The football I watch every week, watching my local team is more exciting than champions league football. The only reason we watch the games is if we get sucked into the drama. But as a spectacle, football is not where it should be. The football associations of the world need to come together and find a ruleset to change football. Take the great aspects of the game; that it's so fun to play in small number, it's a fantastic street game and for kids. Anyone can play football, all you need is a ball and some jumpers for goalposts. And it has such a high skillcap as Messi beautifully shows. How could we have such a fantastic starting point and end up with 90 minutes of frustration at the highest level? It's nonsense.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game" words applicable to so much in life.
Yeah, UEFA really needs to figure something about because you're right. it seems UCL brings out the worst in teams, both tactically and verbally... (fouls/diving/crying@refs)
To be honest, I think both teams have individuals that have shown quite disgraceful behaviour on the pitch, albeit in different ways. This is a rotten aspect that I feel is a part of top level football in general at the moment, unfortunately, and the finger pointing that's going on from both sides seems quite counter-productive. All teams have players performing over the top simulations etc. It's saddening.
Mourinho was not wrong to play defensively in the game, it was the best strategy.
So many people are praising this defensive play. Please explain why this is the best strategy?
Because i dont see it. First leg, homecourt advantage and an incredibly lineup of offensive players (who ended up on the bench!). Surely, the best strategy would be to get 2-3 goals, AND THEN play defensively on camp nou. Hoping to keep, or increase, a 0-0 score on camp nou, is tactical suicide.
Mourinho was not wrong to play defensively in the game, it was the best strategy.
So many people are praising this defensive play. Please explain why this is the best strategy?
Because i dont see it. First leg, homecourt advantage and an incredibly lineup of offensive players (who ended up on the bench!). Surely, the best strategy would be to get 2-3 goals, AND THEN play defensively on camp nou. Hoping to keep, or increase, a 0-0 score on camp nou, is tactical suicide.
It's the best strategy because Barca is quite simply the better teams under those conditions, with open play. If both teams have an offensive mentality Barca will win almost every game. Shutting them down and using counter-attacks is the way to go.
Mourinho was not wrong to play defensively in the game, it was the best strategy.
So many people are praising this defensive play. Please explain why this is the best strategy?
Because i dont see it. First leg, homecourt advantage and an incredibly lineup of offensive players (who ended up on the bench!). Surely, the best strategy would be to get 2-3 goals, AND THEN play defensively on camp nou. Hoping to keep, or increase, a 0-0 score on camp nou, is tactical suicide.
It's the best strategy because Barca is quite simply the better teams under those conditions, with open play. If both teams have an offensive mentality Barca will win almost every game. Shutting them down and using counter-attacks is the way to go.
Well, after the CL exit to Inter last season, the majority of opponets started to play highly defensive against Barca. And well, look at the W/L statictics. They are likely going to win the league and be in CL finale.
As i see it, if you let Barca control the game (which you do by playing so defensive), eventually they will break trough. This has happened again and again during this season. The majority of opponents in the league games did it, and lost. Arsenal did it and lost, Real did it and lost. Rarely you hold a tie, and once in a blue moon, you get a lucky chance in overtime and score (copa del rey).
If you look at some of the games against lesser teams like fck or hercules, whos just like 'oh what the hell, lets just try and play our game against them' (simplified :D), Barca actually starts being vulnerabel. In the second half, up until the card, Real started to pressure barca and play offensive. And in those few minutes Barca had more ball loss and misspassing, then the entire rest of the game. Ofcourse it can be dangerous, and if you lose focus youll get spanked 0-5 , but I am certainly not convinved that parking the bus is the best strategy.
You need the right players to do it. High defense with fast counter attacks. Mourinho knows how to train his players to do it, but some players are better than others. Marcelo and Ramos aren't the best defensively, and missing carvalho makes it a lot harder. It worked beautifully in the copa final, but the lack of men (and the sending off *cough*), caused it to fail. When it works, it works. when it doesn't work, everyone has to throw in their two cents about how its wrong.
On April 29 2011 10:10 tyCe wrote: Wtf? So many Barca anti-fans who thought that the play-acting by Barca was poor sportsmanship?
Have you seen Mourinho teams play against Barca? Every single game that a Mourinho team has played against Barca, his players commit assault and battery on the pitch. The tackles, the shoves, the flying kicks are atrocious blights on football. When you saw Madrid play Barca last year, there was none of that shit and the games never heated up this much.
Mourinho creates an "us vs all" mentality by his very personality and intentions, and he uses that to drive his players to commit ridiculously violent acts on the pitch and say stupid things in interviews. When the referee decides to show that he's still the ref and the boss of the match, Mourinho and his band of thugs will of course try to be aggrieved at "incorrect" and "biased" umpiring decisions as they can clearly not admit that Barca was better, that they played like thugs or that their strategy was to kick, hack, and chop Barca players for 65 minutes until they can send on Kaka for Khedira and decide to attack for 25 minutes at their home stadium.
What is Barca to do against that? Are they supposed to be bullied in the press conference by Mourinho's bullshit; calling out the ref, putting the spotlight on refereeing decisions and placing unnecessary pressure on the ref to favour his team? Are they supposed to accept that being assaulted on the pitch by Madrid players to the scale of criminal violence is the way things should be? Every Chelsea and Madrid fan on these forums that believed in the "Stamford Bridge scandal" bullshit should search youtube for the video showing Iniesta's legs after the 2nd leg of the semi between Barca and Chelsea 2 years ago. He had cuts strewn across both shins and knees and thighs, some of them half a centimetre deep. That's right Drogba, your team played like a "fucking disgrace" (to quote yourself) in that match, just as Madrid are doing in the recent clasicos.
Barca players play-act because they don't stand up to the bullshit violent tactics that Mourinho employs. They over-dramatise fouls because they want to show the referee that they have been fouled, or stamped, or hacked or slashed. I could be naive as I was when I was playing football up until my college years and try to get up after every violent tackle I was given, but guess what? Half the time that I got up from a foul, I didn't get the foul awarded. Don't you blind Madrid "football fans" see? Barca wants to play a fair game against Madrid, partially because they believe that they are better than Madrid. But if Mourinho tells his players to chop Barca players down and pressures the ref before and after the game to not give out any cards even for conduct that could lead to gaol-time off the pitch, then I think Barca is well justified to play-act when they get the slightest foul. This pressures Madrid to not be as violent on the pitch as they will be walking a fine line. For the fools who continue to be violent and then actually commit a card offence, the play-acting is to increase the chance that the card is actually awarded.
Further, you cannot deny that there is malice or at the very least, intent, in the carded offences in the last few clasicos. Pepe's challenge was high, late and it was a studs-up offence. By definition in the rulebook, this warrants a straight red card. But suppose Alves didn't play-act; then Pepe would not be sent off even though he deserved it. The ref is smart enough to know that Barca (and football players in general) play-acts, and accordingly with this frame of reference in mind, if Alves did not make a meal out of the challenge, he would have though that the challenge was not a red-card offence despite it being so.
TLDR: 1. Madrid was coached by Mourinho to play like thugs in the recent clasicos; this is a tactical play and part of the overall strategy to stifle Barca's passing game and make them too nervous to play to their usual standard 2. Barca players play-act because they do not want to be hacked in the match because if they play-act then Madrid players will need to be careful about their fouling 3. The ref is not stupid like 99% of people here and on every other football forums assume he is; he knows Barca play-act and he knows Mourinho teams play dirty; he will assume that if there is no play-acting, then perhaps no contact even occured since Barca players will fall down at every foul
Final words: It is ridiculous to see so many "fans" of the game condone violent and malicious tackling and blaming the ref on the dismissal. I haven't seen a single red card given unjustly for a Mourinho team against Barca. Pepe's foul was a studs-up tackle, high, late and committed while Alves was in the air. That is a straight red even without some of the aggravating elements of the tackle. Similarly, Arbeloa's challenge in the Liga clasico, Ramos in the clasico before that, Thiago Motta in last year's semi; they were all red card offences. Should the ref not give a red card because it's "not fair" to always send off one of Mourinho's men, even if they deserve it? Play-acting has become a necessary evil when the alternative is to risk long-term injury, especially when the default position is that a player who actually got fouled will play-act (and you cannot blame this on Barca, it has been this way since the Pele days). Every football fan here will know of the double leg breaks that have happened from similar studs-up sliding tackles that some Madrid players have been trying - see Eduardo, Aaron Ramsey and co.
It's a physical game, how about players man the fuck up?
On April 29 2011 10:10 tyCe wrote: Wtf? So many Barca anti-fans who thought that the play-acting by Barca was poor sportsmanship?
Have you seen Mourinho teams play against Barca? Every single game that a Mourinho team has played against Barca, his players commit assault and battery on the pitch. The tackles, the shoves, the flying kicks are atrocious blights on football. When you saw Madrid play Barca last year, there was none of that shit and the games never heated up this much.
Mourinho creates an "us vs all" mentality by his very personality and intentions, and he uses that to drive his players to commit ridiculously violent acts on the pitch and say stupid things in interviews. When the referee decides to show that he's still the ref and the boss of the match, Mourinho and his band of thugs will of course try to be aggrieved at "incorrect" and "biased" umpiring decisions as they can clearly not admit that Barca was better, that they played like thugs or that their strategy was to kick, hack, and chop Barca players for 65 minutes until they can send on Kaka for Khedira and decide to attack for 25 minutes at their home stadium.
What is Barca to do against that? Are they supposed to be bullied in the press conference by Mourinho's bullshit; calling out the ref, putting the spotlight on refereeing decisions and placing unnecessary pressure on the ref to favour his team? Are they supposed to accept that being assaulted on the pitch by Madrid players to the scale of criminal violence is the way things should be? Every Chelsea and Madrid fan on these forums that believed in the "Stamford Bridge scandal" bullshit should search youtube for the video showing Iniesta's legs after the 2nd leg of the semi between Barca and Chelsea 2 years ago. He had cuts strewn across both shins and knees and thighs, some of them half a centimetre deep. That's right Drogba, your team played like a "fucking disgrace" (to quote yourself) in that match, just as Madrid are doing in the recent clasicos.
Barca players play-act because they don't stand up to the bullshit violent tactics that Mourinho employs. They over-dramatise fouls because they want to show the referee that they have been fouled, or stamped, or hacked or slashed. I could be naive as I was when I was playing football up until my college years and try to get up after every violent tackle I was given, but guess what? Half the time that I got up from a foul, I didn't get the foul awarded. Don't you blind Madrid "football fans" see? Barca wants to play a fair game against Madrid, partially because they believe that they are better than Madrid. But if Mourinho tells his players to chop Barca players down and pressures the ref before and after the game to not give out any cards even for conduct that could lead to gaol-time off the pitch, then I think Barca is well justified to play-act when they get the slightest foul. This pressures Madrid to not be as violent on the pitch as they will be walking a fine line. For the fools who continue to be violent and then actually commit a card offence, the play-acting is to increase the chance that the card is actually awarded.
Further, you cannot deny that there is malice or at the very least, intent, in the carded offences in the last few clasicos. Pepe's challenge was high, late and it was a studs-up offence. By definition in the rulebook, this warrants a straight red card. But suppose Alves didn't play-act; then Pepe would not be sent off even though he deserved it. The ref is smart enough to know that Barca (and football players in general) play-acts, and accordingly with this frame of reference in mind, if Alves did not make a meal out of the challenge, he would have though that the challenge was not a red-card offence despite it being so.
TLDR: 1. Madrid was coached by Mourinho to play like thugs in the recent clasicos; this is a tactical play and part of the overall strategy to stifle Barca's passing game and make them too nervous to play to their usual standard 2. Barca players play-act because they do not want to be hacked in the match because if they play-act then Madrid players will need to be careful about their fouling 3. The ref is not stupid like 99% of people here and on every other football forums assume he is; he knows Barca play-act and he knows Mourinho teams play dirty; he will assume that if there is no play-acting, then perhaps no contact even occured since Barca players will fall down at every foul
Final words: It is ridiculous to see so many "fans" of the game condone violent and malicious tackling and blaming the ref on the dismissal. I haven't seen a single red card given unjustly for a Mourinho team against Barca. Pepe's foul was a studs-up tackle, high, late and committed while Alves was in the air. That is a straight red even without some of the aggravating elements of the tackle. Similarly, Arbeloa's challenge in the Liga clasico, Ramos in the clasico before that, Thiago Motta in last year's semi; they were all red card offences. Should the ref not give a red card because it's "not fair" to always send off one of Mourinho's men, even if they deserve it? Play-acting has become a necessary evil when the alternative is to risk long-term injury, especially when the default position is that a player who actually got fouled will play-act (and you cannot blame this on Barca, it has been this way since the Pele days). Every football fan here will know of the double leg breaks that have happened from similar studs-up sliding tackles that some Madrid players have been trying - see Eduardo, Aaron Ramsey and co.
It's a physical game, how about players man the fuck up?
BabyGiraldo, when players "man the fuck up" and not care much when fouled, it gives the opposing team the incentive to permanently destroy a foot worth in the hundred of millions. I'd like to see you take that risk just to prove ur a man.
On April 29 2011 10:10 tyCe wrote: Wtf? So many Barca anti-fans who thought that the play-acting by Barca was poor sportsmanship?
Have you seen Mourinho teams play against Barca? Every single game that a Mourinho team has played against Barca, his players commit assault and battery on the pitch. The tackles, the shoves, the flying kicks are atrocious blights on football. When you saw Madrid play Barca last year, there was none of that shit and the games never heated up this much.
Mourinho creates an "us vs all" mentality by his very personality and intentions, and he uses that to drive his players to commit ridiculously violent acts on the pitch and say stupid things in interviews. When the referee decides to show that he's still the ref and the boss of the match, Mourinho and his band of thugs will of course try to be aggrieved at "incorrect" and "biased" umpiring decisions as they can clearly not admit that Barca was better, that they played like thugs or that their strategy was to kick, hack, and chop Barca players for 65 minutes until they can send on Kaka for Khedira and decide to attack for 25 minutes at their home stadium.
What is Barca to do against that? Are they supposed to be bullied in the press conference by Mourinho's bullshit; calling out the ref, putting the spotlight on refereeing decisions and placing unnecessary pressure on the ref to favour his team? Are they supposed to accept that being assaulted on the pitch by Madrid players to the scale of criminal violence is the way things should be? Every Chelsea and Madrid fan on these forums that believed in the "Stamford Bridge scandal" bullshit should search youtube for the video showing Iniesta's legs after the 2nd leg of the semi between Barca and Chelsea 2 years ago. He had cuts strewn across both shins and knees and thighs, some of them half a centimetre deep. That's right Drogba, your team played like a "fucking disgrace" (to quote yourself) in that match, just as Madrid are doing in the recent clasicos.
Barca players play-act because they don't stand up to the bullshit violent tactics that Mourinho employs. They over-dramatise fouls because they want to show the referee that they have been fouled, or stamped, or hacked or slashed. I could be naive as I was when I was playing football up until my college years and try to get up after every violent tackle I was given, but guess what? Half the time that I got up from a foul, I didn't get the foul awarded. Don't you blind Madrid "football fans" see? Barca wants to play a fair game against Madrid, partially because they believe that they are better than Madrid. But if Mourinho tells his players to chop Barca players down and pressures the ref before and after the game to not give out any cards even for conduct that could lead to gaol-time off the pitch, then I think Barca is well justified to play-act when they get the slightest foul. This pressures Madrid to not be as violent on the pitch as they will be walking a fine line. For the fools who continue to be violent and then actually commit a card offence, the play-acting is to increase the chance that the card is actually awarded.
Further, you cannot deny that there is malice or at the very least, intent, in the carded offences in the last few clasicos. Pepe's challenge was high, late and it was a studs-up offence. By definition in the rulebook, this warrants a straight red card. But suppose Alves didn't play-act; then Pepe would not be sent off even though he deserved it. The ref is smart enough to know that Barca (and football players in general) play-acts, and accordingly with this frame of reference in mind, if Alves did not make a meal out of the challenge, he would have though that the challenge was not a red-card offence despite it being so.
TLDR: 1. Madrid was coached by Mourinho to play like thugs in the recent clasicos; this is a tactical play and part of the overall strategy to stifle Barca's passing game and make them too nervous to play to their usual standard 2. Barca players play-act because they do not want to be hacked in the match because if they play-act then Madrid players will need to be careful about their fouling 3. The ref is not stupid like 99% of people here and on every other football forums assume he is; he knows Barca play-act and he knows Mourinho teams play dirty; he will assume that if there is no play-acting, then perhaps no contact even occured since Barca players will fall down at every foul
Final words: It is ridiculous to see so many "fans" of the game condone violent and malicious tackling and blaming the ref on the dismissal. I haven't seen a single red card given unjustly for a Mourinho team against Barca. Pepe's foul was a studs-up tackle, high, late and committed while Alves was in the air. That is a straight red even without some of the aggravating elements of the tackle. Similarly, Arbeloa's challenge in the Liga clasico, Ramos in the clasico before that, Thiago Motta in last year's semi; they were all red card offences. Should the ref not give a red card because it's "not fair" to always send off one of Mourinho's men, even if they deserve it? Play-acting has become a necessary evil when the alternative is to risk long-term injury, especially when the default position is that a player who actually got fouled will play-act (and you cannot blame this on Barca, it has been this way since the Pele days). Every football fan here will know of the double leg breaks that have happened from similar studs-up sliding tackles that some Madrid players have been trying - see Eduardo, Aaron Ramsey and co.
It's a physical game, how about players man the fuck up?
BabyGiraldo, when players "man the fuck up" and not care much when fouled, it gives the opposing team the incentive to permanently destroy a foot worth in the hundred of millions. I'd like to see you take that risk just to prove ur a man.
Yeah wanting a foul called is fair...when there's a foul. Did you watch the game? Pedro Mascherano and Busquets should have gotten an oscar for best actresses. And going down after a foul is one thing, going down and pretending like they broke your leg in half so that someone gets a card is another. Barca was a disgrace and so is Jose Mourinho
On April 30 2011 06:20 Stimp wrote: You need the right players to do it. High defense with fast counter attacks. Mourinho knows how to train his players to do it, but some players are better than others. Marcelo and Ramos aren't the best defensively, and missing carvalho makes it a lot harder. It worked beautifully in the copa final, but the lack of men (and the sending off *cough*), caused it to fail. When it works, it works. when it doesn't work, everyone has to throw in their two cents about how its wrong.
This is very true. Interestingly Madrid is really a team that doesn't suit this style. In many ways I think Mourinho had more chance with Inter than with Madrid. Ronaldo hardly shines in this role.
What do you mean by 'High defense'? Do you mean high defensive line? In the Copa, Madrid pressed well into the mid-field (especially the first half), but in the league and CL games they sat back deeper.
On April 30 2011 06:20 Stimp wrote: You need the right players to do it. High defense with fast counter attacks. Mourinho knows how to train his players to do it, but some players are better than others. Marcelo and Ramos aren't the best defensively, and missing carvalho makes it a lot harder. It worked beautifully in the copa final, but the lack of men (and the sending off *cough*), caused it to fail. When it works, it works. when it doesn't work, everyone has to throw in their two cents about how its wrong.
This is very true. Interestingly Madrid is really a team that doesn't suit this style. In many ways I think Mourinho had more chance with Inter than with Madrid. Ronaldo hardly shines in this role.
On April 29 2011 10:10 tyCe wrote: Wtf? So many Barca anti-fans who thought that the play-acting by Barca was poor sportsmanship?
Have you seen Mourinho teams play against Barca? Every single game that a Mourinho team has played against Barca, his players commit assault and battery on the pitch. The tackles, the shoves, the flying kicks are atrocious blights on football. When you saw Madrid play Barca last year, there was none of that shit and the games never heated up this much.
Mourinho creates an "us vs all" mentality by his very personality and intentions, and he uses that to drive his players to commit ridiculously violent acts on the pitch and say stupid things in interviews. When the referee decides to show that he's still the ref and the boss of the match, Mourinho and his band of thugs will of course try to be aggrieved at "incorrect" and "biased" umpiring decisions as they can clearly not admit that Barca was better, that they played like thugs or that their strategy was to kick, hack, and chop Barca players for 65 minutes until they can send on Kaka for Khedira and decide to attack for 25 minutes at their home stadium.
What is Barca to do against that? Are they supposed to be bullied in the press conference by Mourinho's bullshit; calling out the ref, putting the spotlight on refereeing decisions and placing unnecessary pressure on the ref to favour his team? Are they supposed to accept that being assaulted on the pitch by Madrid players to the scale of criminal violence is the way things should be? Every Chelsea and Madrid fan on these forums that believed in the "Stamford Bridge scandal" bullshit should search youtube for the video showing Iniesta's legs after the 2nd leg of the semi between Barca and Chelsea 2 years ago. He had cuts strewn across both shins and knees and thighs, some of them half a centimetre deep. That's right Drogba, your team played like a "fucking disgrace" (to quote yourself) in that match, just as Madrid are doing in the recent clasicos.
Barca players play-act because they don't stand up to the bullshit violent tactics that Mourinho employs. They over-dramatise fouls because they want to show the referee that they have been fouled, or stamped, or hacked or slashed. I could be naive as I was when I was playing football up until my college years and try to get up after every violent tackle I was given, but guess what? Half the time that I got up from a foul, I didn't get the foul awarded. Don't you blind Madrid "football fans" see? Barca wants to play a fair game against Madrid, partially because they believe that they are better than Madrid. But if Mourinho tells his players to chop Barca players down and pressures the ref before and after the game to not give out any cards even for conduct that could lead to gaol-time off the pitch, then I think Barca is well justified to play-act when they get the slightest foul. This pressures Madrid to not be as violent on the pitch as they will be walking a fine line. For the fools who continue to be violent and then actually commit a card offence, the play-acting is to increase the chance that the card is actually awarded.
Further, you cannot deny that there is malice or at the very least, intent, in the carded offences in the last few clasicos. Pepe's challenge was high, late and it was a studs-up offence. By definition in the rulebook, this warrants a straight red card. But suppose Alves didn't play-act; then Pepe would not be sent off even though he deserved it. The ref is smart enough to know that Barca (and football players in general) play-acts, and accordingly with this frame of reference in mind, if Alves did not make a meal out of the challenge, he would have though that the challenge was not a red-card offence despite it being so.
TLDR: 1. Madrid was coached by Mourinho to play like thugs in the recent clasicos; this is a tactical play and part of the overall strategy to stifle Barca's passing game and make them too nervous to play to their usual standard 2. Barca players play-act because they do not want to be hacked in the match because if they play-act then Madrid players will need to be careful about their fouling 3. The ref is not stupid like 99% of people here and on every other football forums assume he is; he knows Barca play-act and he knows Mourinho teams play dirty; he will assume that if there is no play-acting, then perhaps no contact even occured since Barca players will fall down at every foul
Final words: It is ridiculous to see so many "fans" of the game condone violent and malicious tackling and blaming the ref on the dismissal. I haven't seen a single red card given unjustly for a Mourinho team against Barca. Pepe's foul was a studs-up tackle, high, late and committed while Alves was in the air. That is a straight red even without some of the aggravating elements of the tackle. Similarly, Arbeloa's challenge in the Liga clasico, Ramos in the clasico before that, Thiago Motta in last year's semi; they were all red card offences. Should the ref not give a red card because it's "not fair" to always send off one of Mourinho's men, even if they deserve it? Play-acting has become a necessary evil when the alternative is to risk long-term injury, especially when the default position is that a player who actually got fouled will play-act (and you cannot blame this on Barca, it has been this way since the Pele days). Every football fan here will know of the double leg breaks that have happened from similar studs-up sliding tackles that some Madrid players have been trying - see Eduardo, Aaron Ramsey and co.
It's a physical game, how about players man the fuck up?
BabyGiraldo, when players "man the fuck up" and not care much when fouled, it gives the opposing team the incentive to permanently destroy a foot worth in the hundred of millions. I'd like to see you take that risk just to prove ur a man.
I fail to see how being able to take a tackle gives the opposition incentive to purposefully injure players. Getting kicked and tackled is part of the game its not crazy to think a player could at least try to keep play going as much as possible without falling to the ground. How long have they been playing this game 20 odd years they should be used to it unless Barca rap their players in cotton when they train them
On April 30 2011 05:25 Megatronn wrote: Mourinho needs to imploy special tactics and put Kaka in.
Kaka hasn't done a thing since he was sold to Madrid. No reason to believe anything will change now. He's a rapidly declining player due to his injuries.
On April 30 2011 05:25 Megatronn wrote: Mourinho needs to imploy special tactics and put Kaka in.
Kaka hasn't done a thing since he was sold to Madrid. No reason to believe anything will change now. He's a rapidly declining player due to his injuries.
He played pretty well in the first classico under Pellegrini from memory.
Does this second leg begin in a little over 6 hours? Euro time zones are new and confusing to me! Also is there any way to watch this from Aus, other than the terrible quality random internet streams?
On May 03 2011 21:28 Resent wrote: Does this second leg begin in a little over 6 hours? Euro time zones are new and confusing to me! Also is there any way to watch this from Aus, other than the terrible quality random internet streams?
I don't know if you know about it or deem it dangerous but just download Sopcast, works most of the time and is HQ, (ok I don't know how you will like it but for me its good quality, at least better than the internet streams).
EPT
