EPTNeither were accidents, btw. They were deliberate challenges. Both took the risk of breaking legs. De Jong had bad luck while Pepe here got lucky.
Barca vs Real Madrid - Page 41
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Suisen
256 Posts
Neither were accidents, btw. They were deliberate challenges. Both took the risk of breaking legs. De Jong had bad luck while Pepe here got lucky. | ||
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Stimp
South Africa780 Posts
Alves' leg is in the air, free to move. | ||
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Suisen
256 Posts
You want to put that in written rules? And you want the ref to rule that accurately? And trying to apply that rule will result in preventing more broken legs in the future? | ||
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Enchanted
United States1609 Posts
On April 28 2011 22:53 Mascherano wrote: Yeah because the 2009 CL final Barca vs Manu was decided by the ref. HERP DERP No but the only reason they got into that final was because of the ref. HERP DERP | ||
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Stimp
South Africa780 Posts
Pepe's challenge was never going to break a leg. The ball was in the air, he went for it (and got it , no less). He was not trying to hit Alves in the leg. How else am i supposed to explain this to you? Watch Again | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
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Suisen
256 Posts
On April 28 2011 23:28 Stimp wrote: seriously dude. Pepe's challenge was never going to break a leg. The ball was in the air, he went for it (and got it , no less). He was not trying to hit Alves in the leg. How else am i supposed to explain this to you? Watch Again Why don't you address the point. You admit it was potentially bone breaking and had more kinetic energy than some tackled that did break legs but this one is ok because Alves got lucky and it wasn't his standing leg that got hit? Also, speculating on intentions is always impossible, but you want to argue that Pepe knew he could never break a leg because if he was going to hit Alves, it would be his other leg and not his standing leg he would hit? I don't think you get the point. These challenges need to be banned from the game because if you allow them, too many legs are broken. This one was potentially bone breaking. Put Alves in a different position and he beaks his leg. Pepe doesn't decide what Alves does. Pepe can't oversee the consequences of such a tackle. It ought to be banned. And this time thank god it was. Also, he didn't get the ball. If anything, he hit the ball by accident. I still believe he deliberately went over the ball as he knew that capturing the ball was impossible even though it would have been possible to hit the ball. So he went for a foul. He is not able to oversee the consequences, we know from previous actions. He wanted to intimidate. People like Pepe and de Jong should be banned until they are re-educated in self control and playing safely. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
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Suisen
256 Posts
Others, like the FA, disagree. That's it. It doesn't matter if he hit the ball and didn't hit Alves. I admit he did hit the ball and didn't hit Alves. But that's irrelevant. Potentially bone breaking challenges ought to be banned to prevent bones fro breaking. Wenether they hit the ball, miss the player or don't actually break the leg is also irrelevant. Players need to know things like this are not allowed and that anything similar will result into a red card. Only this way they won't make them. Making a distinction in rules about the active leg and standing leg are silly and can't be enforced anyway. So the point ought not to be made. Challenges towards the standing leg or active leg should be ruled the same way. | ||
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Khz
126 Posts
On April 28 2011 23:17 Stimp wrote: What am I delusional about? I never said I condone leg breaking challenges. I just know that stuff like that happens. 99% of the time its a rush of blood to the head bad tackle. No one intends to break someones leg, shit happens. No way in hell would Pepe's challenge have broken any leg. It doesn't really matter at all if Alves' leg would've been broken by the tackle or not. It's not about the consequences but the action itself and the danger it poses that justifies the red card. Those kind of reckless tackles can end careers. Even if he didn't intend to deliberately harm him it's impossible for the tackling player to predict what will happen. | ||
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RumTalk
Jamaica135 Posts
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Stimp
South Africa780 Posts
On April 28 2011 23:36 Suisen wrote: Why don't you address the point. You admit it was potentially bone breaking and had more kinetic energy than some tackled that did break legs but this one is ok because Alves got lucky and it wasn't his standing leg that got hit? Also, speculating on intentions is always impossible, but you want to argue that Pepe knew he could never break a leg because if he was going to hit Alves, it would be his other leg and not his standing leg he would hit? I don't think you get the point. These challenges need to be banned from the game because if you allow them, too many legs are broken. This one was potentially bone breaking. Put Alves in a different position and he beaks his leg. Pepe doesn't decide what Alves does. Pepe can't oversee the consequences of such a tackle. It ought to be banned. And this time thank god it was. Also, he didn't get the ball. If anything, he hit the ball by accident. I still believe he deliberately went over the ball as he knew that capturing the ball was impossible even though it would have been possible to hit the ball. So he went for a foul. He is not able to oversee the consequences, we know from previous actions. He wanted to intimidate. People like Pepe and de Jong should be banned until they are re-educated in self control and playing safely. I've been saying OVER AND OVER that it would NEVER have broken alves's leg. If you put alves into another position then its a whole different tackle because the ball is probably coming from somewhere else If his tackle was to hit alves standing leg then he wouldn't be going for the ball in the first place. These challenges have been in the game for decades, and I haven't seen an increase in broken legs lately. Hence why De Jong never got sent off against Ben Arfa. He played the ball, and his trailing leg unfortunately went through the standing leg. (which is very rare) | ||
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Suisen
256 Posts
These challenges have been in the game for decades IN THE UK and maybe in Australia and certainly also in Africa. If you see Africa cup you see like 4 of these a match. Really, Africa is the most extreme in the cultural differences there do exist. The game had sped up and we need to get rid of these tackles in these countries too. They break more and more legs each years and the refs are responsible. Kraft didn't make the mistake many do make by giving a yellow. On mainland Europe we actually enforce the rules on this a bit more. Still not enough, but that can be blamed on doubt and lack of video images. | ||
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TranceStorm
1616 Posts
On April 28 2011 18:30 Spinfusor wrote: I repeat, Barcelona fouled more than Madrid. Madrid sat back, they didn't kick Barca off the pitch ffs. Keep in mind the 96 points was in the context that Pellegrini had fewer games than Mourinho having been knocked out of everything else. At the end of the day, Pellegrini failed at every single hurdle: 1) He failed to arrest his side's slide to a 4th tier side (let alone come remotely close to winning the copa) 2) He failed to win a single knockout CL match 3) He failed to beat or even draw against Barca in a single game 4) He failed to improve on last years league position I'm not necessarily saying achieving just any one of these would have saved his job, but at the end of the day he was a failure almost any reasonable measure of the season. I repeat, at every single challenge during the season, he failed. At the same time, Mourinho has things going for him in terms of unsackability: 1) He won something 2) He won a knockout tie (actually, 3 no less!) 3) He has a longer contract with higher pay (making it expensive to sack him) 4) There is no obvious choice to replace him (say Rafa Benitez and I will shoot you) 5) He did beat Barcelona (in a match that matters no less) Ok, I agree with a majority of your points here. But, even if Pellegrini had achieved more success (like the same amount that Mourinho currently has with Real Madrid), he still would have been given the sack. Considering that Real sacked Capello and Schuster (ok he resigned) despite their successes in the league, and Del Bosque (God knows why they released him) who won the Champions League twice - would winning the Copa Del Rey really satisfy the board? | ||
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DwD
Sweden8621 Posts
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Stimp
South Africa780 Posts
On April 28 2011 23:48 Suisen wrote: Wow so if Alves was in a different position suddenly Pepe's tackle is different. Wow!. You missed my point. You make the notion that if alves was in a different position. WHY WOULD HE BE IN A DIFFERENT POSITION when this tackle comes in? And what POSSIBLE bone breaking position could he find himself in? The only reason he would be in a different position is if the ball is coming from somewhere else. Pepes challenge had no malice or intent. He won the ball. I have no clue where this notion of leg breaking challenge comes from In mainland europe, diving and playacting wins free kicks and games. | ||
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SasukeStreams
Netherlands174 Posts
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Suisen
256 Posts
Have a nice time breaking a leg in African style football because I am pretty sure that is where your strange idea about tackles comes from. We in Europe try to make our game clean again. And this was the European Champions League Also, you are a dishonest debater. When I ask questions about clarifying your position and accuse you of having missed the point, you turn it on it's head and claim I missed the point. It's dishonesty and with such an attitude no debate is possible with you. | ||
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Stimp
South Africa780 Posts
No wonder other sports fans call soccer feminine and soft. Apparently legs break like twigs. I've been clear from the start. Thats what I meant in my point and you misinterpreted it so I re-explained it. You are making a massive deal about Pepe's challenge when it was a yellow card at best. | ||
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Suisen
256 Posts
At least that's how it was invented and that's how true football fans try to clean it up again. When de Jong didn't get a red this was a huge huge commotion. | ||
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