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On April 26 2012 04:32 Josh_rakoons wrote:Does anybody else still feel that the technician is still really imbalanced? The turrets are way too good  and a whole team of technicians are not fun to play against AT ALL. Just camping at flag herp derp.
With long range weapons its really easy to kill them. Snipers and juggies can clean them up pretty easily. And if there still a problem you can try and go for the generator. Because there so easy to kill from long range I really like the fact that they have high dps. I think there just fine.
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On April 26 2012 03:58 Raynian wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jA6ny.gif)
Unless you have a good idea of what's going on under the hood of UE's networking system, you shouldn't really be using this gif as evidence for anything :|
The plasma's hitbox is probably too big, sure. Other videos have shown that. But to put up an image of what looks like a false-hit that's actually more due to the client-side inaccuracy necessary to keep the game running smoothly is, quite frankly, pretty dumb.
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On April 26 2012 04:32 Josh_rakoons wrote:Does anybody else still feel that the technician is still really imbalanced? The turrets are way too good and a whole team of technicians are not fun to play against AT ALL. Just camping at flag herp derp.
Decent HO/LO can take care of infinity turrets because they have a really short range and you can just shell from afar. It's only really a problem if no one bothers to do some shelling.
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Oh great, the shrike boost doesn't actually give the shrike any vertical height anymore, the thing is almost impossible to maneuver now since you essentially can't stop.
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On April 26 2012 04:30 Logo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 01:51 Ethenielle wrote:
We agree nothing beats a plasma raider. Okay. We agree it's overpowered. The difference seems to be that you think it's okay because they don't have infinite HP, too!
Apparently we need to debate pay2win semantics. Do you _not_ understand why this update is pay2win? You shell out 10 bucks and suddenly you're a progamer. The whole "sidegrades only" went out the window and the simple fact that you can buy yourself skill makes it pay2win.
Okay, that's pretty much my view on it. The game deserved support, and maybe it will in the future, too. But releasing pay2win updates makes me mad, unwilling to play and most certainly unwilling to pay. You're misusing Pay 2 Win and/or treating it like it's bad when it's not. The fact that you can buy the gun makes it WAY better than if it was XP unlock only. The problem instead is that in a competitive game we have unlockable gear that gives you an advantage. It doesn't matter HOW the gear is unlocked, it's just the simple fact that it is locked to some % of players even if they have paid a reasonable amount. Now at launch this wasn't god awful, you could buy the max efficiency of a few classes for a reasonable amount of money or a mediocre amount of time and you started with competitive gear (other than the bullshit XP only unlocks). But we're running into a few problems.... 1. The game is becoming too expensive (time or money, doesn't matter) with these additional weapons 2. The game is being destabilized by the rapid introduction of weapons/gear which cause balance issues and possibly invalidated previous investments. 3. The player base's perception is that Hi-Rez has an incentive to release overpowered gear. Whether or not it is actually true the perception hurts Hi-Rez's reputation every time a new weapon is useful.
Keep in mind that for competition all new weapons are banned for at least 1 month before they are evaluated and allowed in competition. This gives people time to grind and unlock the weapons and to learn them to a level where judgement can be objective.
In response to the earlier posts, it was Hi-rez' bad to release the weapon in the state that it is right now. I found it funny, but now irritating, that every single update that is released there is this pay to win bullshit. Again, semantics. This word does not mean what most people think it means. Pay to win = impossible to obtain said item without paying real money.
Also, the nature of tribes does not require you to unlock everything.
The weapon is unbalanced! Yes! Yes! It is! Nobody is denying it. But it is far from being as demonic as everyone is saying.
Bart has told me there will be changes, probably to the hitbox of the projectile. Hopefully the clip and RoF will also be adjusted.
When that is fixed it should be a sidegrade to the others making the raider's primary a more viable duelling weapon.
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The chat have gone from friendly banter to "OMFG PLASMA GUN OPOPOP EFFING CHEATERS" in a few days.
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If hirez does patch the new stuff like they should, it wont make the game any less frustrating if they continue to introduce such abusive content in the future
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On April 26 2012 07:40 nihlon wrote:
The chat have gone from friendly banter to "OMFG PLASMA GUN OPOPOP EFFING CHEATERS" in a few days.
Well i'm trying to stay positive, but playing against a plasma gun is incredibly frustrating. I play a lot of TDM and arena (i know casual :p) and 1 guy with this weapon is enough to completly break the game.
Add to that the frustration of the p2win aspect and not being able to use this weapon, and of course you're going to have some rage ..
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On April 26 2012 15:18 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:40 nihlon wrote:
The chat have gone from friendly banter to "OMFG PLASMA GUN OPOPOP EFFING CHEATERS" in a few days. Well i'm trying to stay positive, but playing against a plasma gun is incredibly frustrating. I play a lot of TDM and arena (i know casual :p) and 1 guy with this weapon is enough to completly break the game. Add to that the frustration of the p2win aspect and not being able to use this weapon, and of course you're going to have some rage ..
fight with honor... and you will win
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On April 26 2012 15:18 Jetaap wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 07:40 nihlon wrote:
The chat have gone from friendly banter to "OMFG PLASMA GUN OPOPOP EFFING CHEATERS" in a few days. Well i'm trying to stay positive, but playing against a plasma gun is incredibly frustrating. I play a lot of TDM and arena (i know casual :p) and 1 guy with this weapon is enough to completly break the game. Add to that the frustration of the p2win aspect and not being able to use this weapon, and of course you're going to have some rage ..
Can everyone please stop using that 'word'? It is by definition wrong to use it in this context! If people keep using it, even as a joke, a torrent of ignorants will eventually believe it. If anything you don't want to stir the hive here ...
In any case: http://forum.hirezstudios.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=870930#p870930
See? Nothing to worry about. Hi-Rez admits they made a mistake and nobody is happy about it.
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Seriously? You still don't get it?
PAY-2-WIN:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
THE PLASMA GUN IS OVERPOWERED. THE FACT THAT YOU CAN BUY IT MAKES THE GAME P2W IN ITS CURRENT STATE. OKAY.
Holy shit. I'm glad they're fixing it but please drop your fanboyism for one second and pick up your brain instead.
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On April 26 2012 17:47 Ethenielle wrote:
Seriously? You still don't get it?
PAY-2-WIN:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
THE PLASMA GUN IS OVERPOWERED. THE FACT THAT YOU CAN BUY IT MAKES THE GAME P2W IN ITS CURRENT STATE. OKAY.
Holy shit. I'm glad they're fixing it but please drop your fanboyism for one second and pick up your brain instead.
Guys, you are not arguing about what is actually going on, you are arguing about the definition of p2w. Could you just agree to disagree about that?
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On April 26 2012 17:27 Greth wrote:
See? Nothing to worry about. Hi-Rez admits they made a mistake and nobody is happy about it.
If they continue do stuff liek this there is something to worry about... patching the game is cool and everything but if they continue to release overpowered stuff that the majority can only obtain through paying then that will be a problem
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On April 26 2012 17:54 pettter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 17:47 Ethenielle wrote:
Seriously? You still don't get it?
PAY-2-WIN:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
THE PLASMA GUN IS OVERPOWERED. THE FACT THAT YOU CAN BUY IT MAKES THE GAME P2W IN ITS CURRENT STATE. OKAY.
Holy shit. I'm glad they're fixing it but please drop your fanboyism for one second and pick up your brain instead. Guys, you are not arguing about what is actually going on, you are arguing about the definition of p2w. Could you just agree to disagree about that?
Sigh.
I'm not going to agree to disagree about something that has a factual truth on my side of the argument.
Let's break it down here.
1. Hi-Rez dropped the ball. First with the Jackal, they didn't investigate the splash damage in detail, so they immediately nerfed it to a point where it is fairly balanced. It is an easy gun to use but there are significant drawbacks to the weapon too.
I've argued against allowing it in competition because it might be a problem on stand D and O because of the small number of people involved in such a match. But that debate is still open. For competitive play a rule is in place that bans all weapons that are newly released in order to assess their effect, let people acquire the weapon without purchase to some degree, and let people get good enough with the weapon to allow for objective discussion.
From that we can formulate concerns towards Hi-Rez who have been very receptive of criticism so far.
I still think that the Jackal is an easy weapon yet it is still a sidegrade. Both the spinfusor and certainly the Rhino do more direct damage. Right now for me it still needs at least a fuse and maybe some impulse reduction. But we'll have to see it in the wild before we can make a decision.
2. With the Plasma Hi-Rez again dropped the ball. They should have tested this and it is inexcusable that they released the gun the way it is. It's easy to see it being part of a strategy to make people buy the weapon, but then they openly apologize and explain that this is hurting them too; so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. They are still a small studio and their Q&A is basically everyone working there.
Now, the argumentation that this makes the game Pay2Win is idiotic. The weapon is imbalanced and broken, yes. So right now you will benefit from having it. Again though, the problem is exaggerated by a collection of rage and one track minds. After no time at all the troops have been rallied and it becomes a religious war.
The gun will be nerfed and fixed. And then it will become a sidegrade to the GL and the Arx.
Sadly I predict that people will still find it too powerful after the nerf because that's what it is supposed to be. The raider is a class designed to kill people! What a lot of people don't understand is that the game is A. designed for CtF and B. not determined by kills and scores but by collective teamwork. The Plasma will make the raider a duelist, but that's not what he's supposed to be. He's supposed to clear people off the stand and destroy whatever might be around. The Grenade Launcher and Arx are designed to do this so they will still be used. The splash on the plasma isn't enough to pull off this task. At least, this is what I hope will happen after the nerf.
This is a hard thing to get through on pubs, but that's the truth. It's the same thing than people saying Carriers are OP on BGH or Fastest.
You shouldn't find yourself in a situation dueling a raider 1v1 if you're not a raider yourself. Yet if you are of equal skill you should always have a chance against him unless you're a light.
At this point though all the weapons available when you first unlock the class are - when practiced enough - all you need. The EMP nades have been debated at length and I think the only reason we allow them in comp is because otherwise the Raider won't have any grenades left.
I've been playing the Arx since closed beta and I manage to kill many, many people with it. After a while you can use it as a surgical instrument. The NJ4 has been borderline overpowered since the start and has been nerfed several times already - it used to do a LOT more damage. With good aim, you can gun down a medium with half a clip, faster than the plasma right now can kill a medium.
3. I find it funny that so many people are turning everything into Pay2Win. Yes, things need to stay fair and balanced, and that is what will happen with the next patch. But for those playing pure 'free' understand that a company needs to earn something. You're playing a demo that, if you invest time, you'll eventually get everything. I bought the starter pack at the start of beta and I played quite a bit. I now have all but a few weapons unlocked. I spent $25. For a game as grand as this one that's a steal. I don't have all the weapons, but I don't need them. I've found my role and I'm sticking with it.
You're buying time, that's all it is.
Edit: to clarify further, I still have most of my gold. I used the booster to gain a quite an amount of XP to unlock most things. I found myself sticking to the default weapons more often than not even after unlocking other weapons.
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Raiders play a small part in why pubs usually suck.
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
Pisses me off that they have such a complicated payment system.. friend of mine took over a month messing around and eventuly registered with a new bank and got a new credit card to buy some stuff, and when i tried to impulse buy a ton of gold for a Phase Rifle (with bxt nerf) to mess around with the Rage perk etc, and maybe buy a few new items, i was unable to do so with paypal, even after giving them my full adress and phone number (which was required)
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On April 26 2012 19:38 Greth wrote:
3. I find it funny that so many people are turning everything into Pay2Win. Yes, things need to stay fair and balanced, and that is what will happen with the next patch. But for those playing pure 'free' understand that a company needs to earn something. You're playing a demo that, if you invest time, you'll eventually get everything. I bought the starter pack at the start of beta and I played quite a bit. I now have all but a few weapons unlocked. I spent $25. For a game as grand as this one that's a steal. I don't have all the weapons, but I don't need them. I've found my role and I'm sticking with it.
You're buying time, that's all it is.
Edit: to clarify further, I still have most of my gold. I used the booster to gain a quite an amount of XP to unlock most things. I found myself sticking to the default weapons more often than not even after unlocking other weapons.
People need an excuse for losing. How many times have you seen people saying "Omg I lost to stupid cheese" in sc2? That line is so common 'cause people want to think they are better than they actually are and need an excuse when they lose to something "lame". P2w in FPS doesn't even work that well, 'cause in MMOs where your gear pretty much means do you win or not, in fps you still have to aim. I have no problem chaining down raiders who have bought plasma and think they are invincible.
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United Kingdom20320 Posts
Also, i am suprised nobody has pointed out the angle snapping on the BXT scope at low sensitivities, il make a video of it at some point, im not sure you can notice it on any kind of "standard" sensitivity, but ive been playing more recently @ 900dpi 1sens and it really bothers me. The falloff range is quite unforgiving now, but it seems regardless, i should be able to land shots for 300 damage over twice as far as i actuly can because of the weird movement of scope and angle snappy-ness. Has anyone else noticed this?
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On April 26 2012 19:56 Cyro wrote:
Pisses me off that they have such a complicated payment system.. friend of mine took over a month messing around and eventuly registered with a new bank and got a new credit card to buy some stuff, and when i tried to impulse buy a ton of gold for a Phase Rifle (with bxt nerf) to mess around with the Rage perk etc, and maybe buy a few new items, i was unable to do so with paypal, even after giving them my full adress and phone number (which was required)
Wanted to unlock the perma 50% exp boost but they don't seem to accept my Visa Electron which works practically everywhere. Don't take my money then.
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EPT
