EPT2011 NFL Offseason/NFL Draft - Page 18
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
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GTR
51506 Posts
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:54 GTR wrote: while there is a significant drop-off after green/jones, baldwin seems to have the most upside out of the rest of the pack (personally i would have taken randall cobb or titus young). Thanks. I had just never heard of him. Really was thinking more an OL to protect Cassel cause they fell apart end of the year as far as protection goes. As well as in the first round of the playoffs. I would think that Baldwin could have fallen to them in the second round. Just feels like MAYBE a slight reach? | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
Going to the ATL will give him a great WR corps in Roddy/Jenkins and the guys to get him over the concentration/catching humps.. Remember Roddy was a hotshot coming out of college, not working hard and constantly having issues catching the ball and concentrating, then Joe Horn came and showed him how to work like a pro, now Roddy is arguably top 3 in the NFL. He will show Julio how to work like a pro and hopefully make Julio's weaknesses diminished somewhat. If anyone can teach him, as someone who looks exactly like him out of college, its Roddy. Instantly best WR corps in the league; if they carry 6 its gonna be Roddy, Julio, Jenkins, HD, Meier and Weems (PR/KR) .. Thats pretty good. Rest of the O is set also, with Michael Palmer being the replacement for Tony Gonzalez. just gotta get a D player today.. It would almost make it worth it if they somehow got back in the 2nd today to take Bowers as long as they dont give up any 2012 picks earlier than 5. -- Onto the NFC South, I think we can all agree that Brees runs the Saints.. so they had to make these moves knowing that their life only goes as far as Brees' career, once he retires in 2-3 years its back to the cellar for them. Ingram is overrated though, im happy they picked him. Tampa screwed themselves with Talib, not to mention they got fluky last year anyways. Carolina is a joke, Clausen was a wasted pick last year, now Cam will be the next Jemarcus Russel. Falcons should remain at the top even with horrible playcalling, and hopefully next year they will fire BVG and Mularkey and actually get some decent coaches to win a superbowl, on a purely talent base, Falcons are easily the best in the NFC, just gotta get some good coaching. | ||
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Gann1
United States1575 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:37 SuitGuy wrote: Bowers not in the first round is so weird to me. He's really a good good player. o_O he also has no cartilage in his knee... no surprise that no one wanted to take a chance on him with a first round pick. he'll go early in the second round, probably top 5. Also, as a Ravens fan, i'm really really glad that KC didn't decide to be dicks and pick Jimmy Smith, so the trade screw-up didn't really hurt anything except our pride. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:39 sixfour wrote: what stats? if it's in terms of yards, that's a function of brees throwing it more than anyone not called peyton. if it's in terms of ypc, 4.0 is fine. sure, you could use an extra back, but pick one up later in the draft, ingram is wasted on your team. you only run it about 25 times a game anyway, give ivory ~15 of them, fill out the remainder of them with pierre thomas if he's back fit (which he wasn't all last season hence his lol 3.2 ypc) or random free agent/fourth or later round pick. works fine and you can still cut bush. Saints are only a 54% passing team when we have more than 1 running back -- in our superbowl winning year we passed 544 to 468 rushing, because our running backs were going strong. We were pass heavy as a difficulty of having a depleted running back corps. We did well on YPC because everyone dropped into coverage against our crippled running attack (28th in the league, our absolutely weakest area, even worse than our awful run defense) and whenever we did use the 1 non-injured back to run, it did alright, but 28th is still 28th. You say give Ivory more runs but we went into the playoffs without him because we ran him too much, the same for Pierre Thomas. Ivory is also AWFUL at running between tackles -- he is the epitome of a short yardage, take the hit RB and we need a more variable back than that, which Ingram is -- he's basically a younger, much more talented Pierre Thomas and Pierre Thomas has been an absolute savior for the Saints. The saints are an amazing passing team, an amazing pass defending team, but we're weak on both sides of the ball when it comes to the run. We need a couple of good linebackers (which there are no good ones in this draft for us to use these picks on) and good running backs to shore up that awful stat -- Drew Brees threw more interceptions this year than he ever has and it's because he had no running attack to spread defenses and he took way too many hits by keeping the ball himself. As great as he is he isn't Peyton Manning when it comes to using his pass to protect himself from hits, he needs the running game he had in the 09 season to be a Superbowl winning QB. I think we got exactly what we needed out of this draft so far. We may regret it next year when the Patriots use our, what, 26th+ draft pick to get a future hall of famer, but I'm willing to take that risk. I think both sides came out happy, and frankly, I'm no worried about the patriots getting insanely strong because, similar to the saints, that team lives and dies by its amazing QB and head coach. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
On April 30 2011 00:58 Gann1 wrote: Also, as a Ravens fan, i'm really really glad that KC didn't decide to be dicks and pick Jimmy Smith, so the trade screw-up didn't really hurt anything except our pride. Maybe we should have. You did house us in the playoffs on our home field.  | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:02 BloodNinja wrote: Lets not overrate their offense either. For as vaunted as their passing attack was two years ago. It only amassed 3103 yards last year (29th in the NFL) with 6.8 ypa (21st in the NFL). I'm guessing you mean running attack here because the Saints had the #3 passing team and the highest completion percentage with that 7.0ypa. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:08 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm guessing you mean running attack here because the Saints had the #3 passing team and the highest completion percentage with that 7.0ypa. I swear it said the opposite and I was pretty sure I was on ESPN. However, I went back and it all looks different. Maybe I got a different year by accident. I deleted the post. Point still being though, I agree the Saints needed a RB and they got one. Brees cannot carry the team on his back a la Peyton Manning. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:14 BloodNinja wrote: I swear it said the opposite and I was pretty sure I was on ESPN. However, I went back and it all looks different. Maybe I got a different year by accident. I deleted the post. Point still being though, I agree the Saints needed a RB and they got one. Brees cannot carry the team on his back a la Peyton Manning. He can, but he'll get injured because when he forces throws he takes longer and always gets hit -- Peyton's the best player in the game at pulling Roughing the passer and DPI calls. Otherwise, just this past season they were basically in the exact same situation -- an ailing o-line, no running game, and injuries in their receiving corps. Peyton put up his better TD/Int ratio and massive yardage, which is his signature, while Brees put together a better completion percentage and better third down conversion passing, which is his signature. Both had an inordinate amount of interceptions. Brees was in a harder division but got to play the NFC West so I guess their schedules are comparable (Lol, Peyton Manning vs Texans Pass D). Also, a secondary thing to this is some of the intangible value. There are a lot of Saints fans who are also Alabama fans, and us taking the first Alabama heisman winner is a sort of intangible benefit to a lot of fans. I'm a bit of a homer when it comes to this but it is true, and maybe that's why I'm trying a little hard to justify the Saints drafting Ingram. I wouldn't call this a C draft though, if Cameron Jordan performs and Ingram has the same or better production to Pierre Thomas then it'll be a homerun. | ||
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BloodNinja
United States2791 Posts
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=6445044 | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field. | ||
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
On April 29 2011 18:01 Skyze wrote: Umm.. do you watch falcons games? They have the worst playcalling coordinators in the league. Great talent, hell superbowl winning talent, but cant call plays at all. Mularkey and Brian Van Gorder, until they are fired, Falcons wont make it past the first round of the playoffs This sport is ALL about coaching, it doesnt matter if you have the best player in the league, you wont win without the best coach. Its not like the NBA where Lebron can take the Cavs to the NBA finals. Theres a reason its always the Patriots, Steelers and Colts at the end of the season, despite the team changing so drastically (patriots are best example).. Coaching = the actual coaches.. Mike Smith may give the press conferences and oversee the operation but he doesnt call the plays, because a Smith led Jaguar D is 100x better than a BVG led Falcons D. Mike Smith is just the 2008 example of Jim Mora Jr, a decent head coach who will be fired in afew years because he didnt have the balls to fire his horrible coordinators because they are friends (Remember Knapp and Donatell? ugh.) The Defense is what needs work on this team (outside of firing Mularkey so they open up the "explosive" plays.. Julio cant change the playcalls, therefor his "explosiveness" is useless).. so a top DE is needed. Better to stay at 27 or move in the 10-20s to pick a top DE, any of them is better than what they gave up for a position that isnt even really needed.. Meier is gonna be a beast, and Jenkins is a solid #2 if you actually watch the games and see what he does. Bears would of beat the Falcons in 2008 without Jenkins, and tons of other bigtime plays Jenkins makes. HD is still doing solid too, keep in mind he came off major surgery thats why he was slow to catch up but he was doing good near the end of the season, despite Mularkey calling horrible routes for the whole WR corps. the WR's were good enough, its the Defense that gave up 40 to the Packers and made the Falcons lose in the playoffs. Mularkey was "Mr. Gadget" with the Steelers, with tricky playcalls and bombs all over the field. I know the Falcons offense seemed so anemic (run, run, throw a 10 yard square out) but we don't know if that's a function of him being stupid or the limited personnel; yes the Falcons have an All Star cast on offense but 1. Matt Ryan doesn't have the strongest arm, 2. Michael Turner cannot catch for the life of him, 3. Tony Gonzalez is in the twilight of his career, and 4. Michael Jenkins is NOT an explosive WR. Watching Mularkey made me want to pull my hair out at times too but I doubt all the blame can be put on him. Saying Meier is gonna be a beast is just blind homerism. Ok then, Bierrman and Sidbury are gonna be beasts too, we don't need to draft DEs. Except Bierrman has actually shown something, so it's less ridiculous to project him as the answer. Jenkins makes ONE clutch play a game, and that's his entire contribution. Maybe without him and with Julio Jones in 2008 we never get into that situation because we score a ton more points. Yes Jenkins is memorable for his extremely clutch catches and yes he caught Matt Ryan's first pass (and first TD) but the fact is he's an extremely mediocre possession WR. Harry Douglas hasn't shown anything after the initial flashes during his rookie year. Who else could we draft that would help us win now? Gonzalez has a year or two left at most, Falcons need to capitalize on the opportunity now. I have no problem with trading so much for an instant impact that would significantly boost the Falcons' champion chances; whether Julio Jones is that guy is yet to be seen, but I'll trust Dimitroff's track record for now. I threw a fit and was SUPER pissed when Dimitroff picked Matt Ryan. I was convinced he was a bust, Brohm was better, Dorsey was the right pick, etc. I've learned since then that Dimitroff knows what he's doing, so until he proves me wrong (again) I'll trust his judgment over mine. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:43 Roffles wrote: Actually, in hindsight, the Falcons essentially swapped 1sts this year, gave up a late first next year, along with a second and a couple 4ths. Not too shabby, although I would have liked to have seen Peterson or Green come to town, as the Falcons have some pretty glaring needs in the secondary and at DE. I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field. Julio plays slow on the field because of his timings at Alabama. He literally could not run as fast as he could to burn receivers because Mcelroy couldn't make those throws. I think with Matt Ryan throwing to him he could become a real monster downfield. | ||
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Xinder
United States2269 Posts
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:47 TwoToneTerran wrote: Julio plays slow on the field because of his timings at Alabama. He literally couldn't not run as fast as he could to burn receivers because Mcelroy couldn't make those throws. I think with Matt Ryan throwing to him he could become a real monster downfield. Truth, McElroy and JPW aren't the greatest of gunslingers, but neither is Matt Ryan. He's got the arm, but all I've seen him ever do is oversling Roddy on deep routes. But what I do think Julio can do after he establishes him is give Roddy a damn break from all those double teams he's been seeing, and it opens up the offense if he ever pans out to be somewhat decent. No more 8 in the box against Michael Turner, less double teams on Roddy, opening up the field for the Falcons. But at the end of the day, they got wrecked on D, and fail to shore it up. I understand the philosophy of loading up on offense, shootout every game trying to outscore opponents, but add Julio to last year's game vs the Packers. Would he have made up the 20+ point differential or helped the Falcons to have given up less than 48 points? | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:45 Curu wrote: Mularkey was "Mr. Gadget" with the Steelers, with tricky playcalls and bombs all over the field. I know the Falcons offense seemed so anemic (run, run, throw a 10 yard square out) but we don't know if that's a function of him being stupid or the limited personnel; yes the Falcons have an All Star cast on offense but 1. Matt Ryan doesn't have the strongest arm, 2. Michael Turner cannot catch for the life of him, 3. Tony Gonzalez is in the twilight of his career, and 4. Michael Jenkins is NOT an explosive WR. Watching Mularkey made me want to pull my hair out at times too but I doubt all the blame can be put on him. Saying Meier is gonna be a beast is just blind homerism. Ok then, Bierrman and Sidbury are gonna be beasts too, we don't need to draft DEs. Except Bierrman has actually shown something, so it's less ridiculous to project him as the answer. Jenkins makes ONE clutch play a game, and that's his entire contribution. Maybe without him and with Julio Jones in 2008 we never get into that situation because we score a ton more points. Yes Jenkins is memorable for his extremely clutch catches and yes he caught Matt Ryan's first pass (and first TD) but the fact is he's an extremely mediocre possession WR. Harry Douglas hasn't shown anything after the initial flashes during his rookie year. Who else could we draft that would help us win now? Gonzalez has a year or two left at most, Falcons need to capitalize on the opportunity now. I have no problem with trading so much for an instant impact that would significantly boost the Falcons' champion chances; whether Julio Jones is that guy is yet to be seen, but I'll trust Dimitroff's track record for now. the whole "Mr Gadget" thing is a really long time ago. With the falcons hes shown nothing but the most predictable playcalling in the NFL (remember vs the Cardinals in 2008? They knew ALL the plays before the snaps, Patriot-esqe really.. cept not spying, just Mularkey was that bad). Actually, if it wasnt for the Steelers Defense, he wouldnt of gotten past the first playoff game with their offense either. Im not buying the other reasons either, Ryan's arm is strong enough for anything, just no down-field routes are run. When they are run, Roddy and Jenks makes big passes, but we'll see what, 1 or 2 routes past 20 yards per game?? Turner doesnt need to catch much, thats what Snelling is for. Jenkins is a solid #2, and is going to be an insane #3. Meier shown flashes that look like a top 3 WR... but remember hes going to be coming in as a #5 or #6. Thats where the potential is. Bierman/Sidbury are alright, but they aren't Abraham level which is what we need right now. I still question this largely, but I am guessing(praying) TD is planning on picking up the best free agent DE this year. Thats the only logical explaination for selling the future for one player in a position that wasnt really required as much as DE. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green? Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
On April 30 2011 01:52 Roffles wrote: But at the end of the day, they got wrecked on D, and fail to shore it up. I understand the philosophy of loading up on offense, shootout every game trying to outscore opponents, but add Julio to last year's game vs the Packers. Would he have made up the 20+ point differential or helped the Falcons to have given up less than 48 points? It's not quite as simple as making 20 points though is it because obviously if you don't have to punt you hold on the ball longer and the opponent has less time to score themselves. Someone in Atlanta rated Julio really highly and they could be right. He certainly has incredible potential. | ||
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