On April 30 2011 01:43 Roffles wrote: Actually, in hindsight, the Falcons essentially swapped 1sts this year, gave up a late first next year, along with a second and a couple 4ths. Not too shabby, although I would have liked to have seen Peterson or Green come to town, as the Falcons have some pretty glaring needs in the secondary and at DE.
I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field.
Julio plays slow on the field because of his timings at Alabama. He literally couldn't not run as fast as he could to burn receivers because Mcelroy couldn't make those throws. I think with Matt Ryan throwing to him he could become a real monster downfield.
Truth, McElroy and JPW aren't the greatest of gunslingers, but neither is Matt Ryan. He's got the arm, but all I've seen him ever do is oversling Roddy on deep routes. But what I do think Julio can do after he establishes him is give Roddy a damn break from all those double teams he's been seeing, and it opens up the offense if he ever pans out to be somewhat decent. No more 8 in the box against Michael Turner, less double teams on Roddy, opening up the field for the Falcons.
But at the end of the day, they got wrecked on D, and fail to shore it up. I understand the philosophy of loading up on offense, shootout every game trying to outscore opponents, but add Julio to last year's game vs the Packers. Would he have made up the 20+ point differential or helped the Falcons to have given up less than 48 points?
Yeah, I'm expecting them to try to go deep in the pockets to shore up their defense -- I expect the saints to do the same thing, really. The NFC South is a vicious as hell league, the closest one being the NFC North -- and they're playing each other next year. Gonna be a good football season.
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Falcons will most likely go out and sign the best free-agent DE this season.. they need a vet playmaker on defense opposite of Abe. Without these extra draft picks, they will have the money to go out and get someone.
Kiwanuka or Charles Johnson.. is Tamba Hali still available too? him on the Falcons would help out.
On April 30 2011 01:43 Roffles wrote: Actually, in hindsight, the Falcons essentially swapped 1sts this year, gave up a late first next year, along with a second and a couple 4ths. Not too shabby, although I would have liked to have seen Peterson or Green come to town, as the Falcons have some pretty glaring needs in the secondary and at DE.
I guess settling for Julio isn't all that bad either. The guy plays physical, but has damn issues catching the ball. World class talent, iffy hands, and even though he ran a blistering 40 at the combine, he plays pretty slow on the field.
The Falcons just blew the bank on Dunta Robinson last year and Brent Grimes was a Pro Bowl CB. Moore and DeCoud were both high picks too. Secondary isn't where they were going to be looking, they've already invested so much into it.
DE was/is still a huge need, but I think they just didn't feel like anyone was an elite prospect there.
On April 29 2011 14:16 Curu wrote: WHAT JULIO JONES?
As a Falcons fan, I did NOT see this coming. Still, can't say I'm too bothered about it since our other starting WR, Michael Jenkins, is the only WR in NFL history to start 3+ seasons and have ZERO 100 yard games.
Seemed like an awful lot to give up though. Dimitroff must be very confident we're going to be picking in the high twenties or thirties every year.
On April 29 2011 10:08 Skyze wrote: as a Falcons fan.. very dissapointed.
We could of got a great DE at 27, and a good WR in the 2nd (titus young).. instead we mortgaged our future for a WR who cant even catch.
sigh. this is why they will never get back to the superbowl. Horrible coaches and stupid decisions when things are starting to look good. Its painful, getting SO close to a superbowl then fucking it up.
What coach is horrible? Mike Smith's been doing an astounding job. Him and Thomas Dimitroff have been the REASON things are starting to look good. Get out of here with this overreaction bullshit. What DE could we have taken at 27? Heyward or Bowers? I don't see Heyward being an instant impact and probably won't overtake Biermann/Sidbury any time soon, and there's obviously something very off about Bowers's health for him to fall from potential #1 overall pick to not even a first rounder. It looks like we gave up a lot, but so long as we go into the playoffs each year it's giving up a very late first rounder, a very late second rounder, and a pair of fourths to move up 21 spots.
Yes I would have liked to see an elite DE, but there really aren't any in this year's draft even were we to trade up.
With the amount of talent we have on offense (Ryan/White/Gonzalez/Turner) it's clear that something was wrong with the passing game last year. It was decent but nowhere near the level it should have been on. Hopefully Julio Jones solves that.
Umm.. do you watch falcons games? They have the worst playcalling coordinators in the league. Great talent, hell superbowl winning talent, but cant call plays at all. Mularkey and Brian Van Gorder, until they are fired, Falcons wont make it past the first round of the playoffs
This sport is ALL about coaching, it doesnt matter if you have the best player in the league, you wont win without the best coach. Its not like the NBA where Lebron can take the Cavs to the NBA finals. Theres a reason its always the Patriots, Steelers and Colts at the end of the season, despite the team changing so drastically (patriots are best example)..
Coaching = the actual coaches.. Mike Smith may give the press conferences and oversee the operation but he doesnt call the plays, because a Smith led Jaguar D is 100x better than a BVG led Falcons D. Mike Smith is just the 2008 example of Jim Mora Jr, a decent head coach who will be fired in afew years because he didnt have the balls to fire his horrible coordinators because they are friends (Remember Knapp and Donatell? ugh.)
The Defense is what needs work on this team (outside of firing Mularkey so they open up the "explosive" plays.. Julio cant change the playcalls, therefor his "explosiveness" is useless).. so a top DE is needed. Better to stay at 27 or move in the 10-20s to pick a top DE, any of them is better than what they gave up for a position that isnt even really needed..
Meier is gonna be a beast, and Jenkins is a solid #2 if you actually watch the games and see what he does. Bears would of beat the Falcons in 2008 without Jenkins, and tons of other bigtime plays Jenkins makes. HD is still doing solid too, keep in mind he came off major surgery thats why he was slow to catch up but he was doing good near the end of the season, despite Mularkey calling horrible routes for the whole WR corps. the WR's were good enough, its the Defense that gave up 40 to the Packers and made the Falcons lose in the playoffs.
Mularkey was "Mr. Gadget" with the Steelers, with tricky playcalls and bombs all over the field. I know the Falcons offense seemed so anemic (run, run, throw a 10 yard square out) but we don't know if that's a function of him being stupid or the limited personnel; yes the Falcons have an All Star cast on offense but 1. Matt Ryan doesn't have the strongest arm, 2. Michael Turner cannot catch for the life of him, 3. Tony Gonzalez is in the twilight of his career, and 4. Michael Jenkins is NOT an explosive WR. Watching Mularkey made me want to pull my hair out at times too but I doubt all the blame can be put on him.
Saying Meier is gonna be a beast is just blind homerism. Ok then, Bierrman and Sidbury are gonna be beasts too, we don't need to draft DEs. Except Bierrman has actually shown something, so it's less ridiculous to project him as the answer. Jenkins makes ONE clutch play a game, and that's his entire contribution. Maybe without him and with Julio Jones in 2008 we never get into that situation because we score a ton more points. Yes Jenkins is memorable for his extremely clutch catches and yes he caught Matt Ryan's first pass (and first TD) but the fact is he's an extremely mediocre possession WR. Harry Douglas hasn't shown anything after the initial flashes during his rookie year.
Who else could we draft that would help us win now? Gonzalez has a year or two left at most, Falcons need to capitalize on the opportunity now. I have no problem with trading so much for an instant impact that would significantly boost the Falcons' champion chances; whether Julio Jones is that guy is yet to be seen, but I'll trust Dimitroff's track record for now.
the whole "Mr Gadget" thing is a really long time ago. With the falcons hes shown nothing but the most predictable playcalling in the NFL (remember vs the Cardinals in 2008? They knew ALL the plays before the snaps, Patriot-esqe really.. cept not spying, just Mularkey was that bad). Actually, if it wasnt for the Steelers Defense, he wouldnt of gotten past the first playoff game with their offense either. Im not buying the other reasons either, Ryan's arm is strong enough for anything, just no down-field routes are run. When they are run, Roddy and Jenks makes big passes, but we'll see what, 1 or 2 routes past 20 yards per game?? Turner doesnt need to catch much, thats what Snelling is for. Jenkins is a solid #2, and is going to be an insane #3.
Meier shown flashes that look like a top 3 WR... but remember hes going to be coming in as a #5 or #6. Thats where the potential is. Bierman/Sidbury are alright, but they aren't Abraham level which is what we need right now.
I still question this largely, but I am guessing(praying) TD is planning on picking up the best free agent DE this year. Thats the only logical explaination for selling the future for one player in a position that wasnt really required as much as DE.
I hate you for bringing up that game. That will, in my mind, forever be the day when Keith Brooking started turning from beloved hero to super villain. Still you also have to remember that year that the Falcons went from what was it, 4-12 the year before? to the playoffs.
The Meier thing is really just homerism. I guarantee you every team in the NFL has some obscure 5th rounder that only that team's fans know, but they think he will be Pro Bowl level. A few years ago for the Falcons it was Laurent Robinson; nowadays no one that isn't a fan of the Falcons or Rams even knows who he is.
I won't lie, I hated Mularkey's guts at the end of the season too. I REALLY wanted him to go to the Titans so we could sign McDaniels. After the emotion cooled a bit, I could think about him a bit more rationally, but with Julio Jones added he better showcase a sick sick offense this year.
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance.
If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d).
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance.
If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d).
You gotta remember, for every Vernon Davis there's a Vernon Gholston. As Al Davis has shown, drafting on Combine results provides much more failure than success. Vernon Davis is the only player I can think of off the top of my head that was drafted pretty much because of Combine results and actually succeeded; everyone knew Megatron was going to be sick and had he sat out the entire Combine he still would have gone in the first 5 picks.
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance.
If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d).
Exactly. The anti-combine backlash is really misguided in some ways. The reality is, drafting players is somewhat similar to buying a house. Once you purchase a house, you can paint it, fix it up, maybe even add a second story to it. But there are something that you can not change. You can't change where the house is physically located. You can't change the lot size of the house. You can't, without tremendous effort, change the original dimensions of the house. In the same way, football players need to be have certain elements in their athleticism and their...body, to be successful.
Does running a 4.3 forty and repping 30 times mean you'll be a stud? Does showing a 37 inch vert mean that you'll be a Hall of Famer? Of course not! But let's be real. Without the tools, your ceiling is capped and NFL teams are preparing to invest millions of dollars into this labor.
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance.
If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d).
You gotta remember, for every Vernon Davis there's a Vernon Gholston. As Al Davis has shown, drafting on Combine results provides much more failure than success. Vernon Davis is the only player I can think of off the top of my head that was drafted pretty much because of Combine results and actually succeeded; everyone knew Megatron was going to be sick and had he sat out the entire Combine he still would have gone in the first 5 picks.
And I definately fall into this camp. I can recall more failures than successes based off of combine results.
@ Slybogie - To use your analogy, Megatron was already a mansion sitting on beachfront property.
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance.
If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d).
You gotta remember, for every Vernon Davis there's a Vernon Gholston. As Al Davis has shown, drafting on Combine results provides much more failure than success. Vernon Davis is the only player I can think of off the top of my head that was drafted pretty much because of Combine results and actually succeeded; everyone knew Megatron was going to be sick and had he sat out the entire Combine he still would have gone in the first 5 picks.
And I definately fall into this camp. I can recall more failures than successes based off of combine results.
@ Slybogie - To use your analogy, Megatron was already a mansion sitting on beachfront property.
Oh, I'm a huge fan of Calvin Johnson; all this talk about Dez Bryant and AJ Green and Julio Jones - yada yada yada. Megatron is the next great one, I'm not even sure the NFL is ready, the guy is just tremendous.
On April 30 2011 02:41 BloodNinja wrote: @ Slybogie - To use your analogy, Megatron was already a mansion sitting on beachfront property.
Oh, I'm a huge fan of Calvin Johnson; all this talk about Dez Bryant and AJ Green and Julio Jones - yada yada yada. Megatron is the next great one, I'm not even sure the NFL is ready, the guy is just tremendous.
He certainly has the potential to be an all time great. Especially if he can stay healthy which is seems to be one of the biggest factors to players making it to that plateau. We can only hope he will stay a bit longer in than the last game changing Detriot Lion, if he does make it to that level.
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
In truth I don't think that's a good comparison. At the end of the day the team is putting all their hopes and dreams on a QB. Not on a WR. Sure when you draft one in the first round and he ends up sucking it hurts. But of the two positions I think what a WR does at a combine is weighed more heavily than what a QB does at the combine. Also QBs are looked at to be leaders. You don't really see leadership measured at the combine. I think how a WR/RB does at a combine, on certain drills, is far more important than how a QB did at the combine.
Plus i mean look who drafted Russell. The Raiders. And Al Davis is a crazy old man who doesn't know when to die. Look at what he pulled this year. Hey Tom Cable you helped the Raiders go 8-8 for the first time in like 8 years and went 6-0 against the division. I'm still gonna fire you tho!! HAHAHA *plays cuckoo sounds*
On April 30 2011 01:49 Xinder wrote: Wasn't it Julio Jones that showed up all the WRs at the combine? Even though people going into the Combine were looking at AJ Green?
Yeah, he pretty much destroyed the combine. But at the end of the day, how much do you take into consideration from the combine? Jamarcus Russell had all the athletic ability in the world. Look at how he turned out.
I personally don't put a lot of faith in the combine. Lots of players have looked great playing in shorts and have failed terribly at the NFL level.
Yeah, and sometimes the combine works wonders, like Vernon Davis or maybe most notoriously Dwight Freeney who catapulted up the boards after his combine performance.
If you want to talk WRs then the best WR in the league right now (Calvin Johnson, MEGATRON) had a sick combine and is one of the early round picks that are making the lions look like an actual threat in the NFC North (Suh, Fairley, Van der Bosch frontline? Stafford to Megatron? Team's turning into a beast if they get a running game and some pass d).
Exactly. The anti-combine backlash is really misguided in some ways. The reality is, drafting players is somewhat similar to buying a house. Once you purchase a house, you can paint it, fix it up, maybe even add a second story to it. But there are something that you can not change. You can't change where the house is physically located. You can't change the lot size of the house. You can't, without tremendous effort, change the original dimensions of the house. In the same way, football players need to be have certain elements in their athleticism and their...body, to be successful.
Does running a 4.3 forty and repping 30 times mean you'll be a stud? Does showing a 37 inch vert mean that you'll be a Hall of Famer? Of course not! But let's be real. Without the tools, your ceiling is capped and NFL teams are preparing to invest millions of dollars into this labor.
I was just gonna post something to this extent. You can't coach fast and most physical things.
Also, using anything that Al Davis has done in the last decade as some kind of metric to compare the thinking of NFL warrooms is a bit whacky.
So, how about them Detroit Lions? Good luck running against them next year eh?
Also, I can't stop laughing at the Jaguars. I didn't even know what was going on when that pick happened, and I still can not stop laughing. Yeah, Gerrard isn't great but they needed more improvements than that.
And GOD DAMNIT STEELERS YOU NEED MORE FREAKING FUCKING CORNERS AND SECONDARIES AND SHIT, NOT MORE DEFENSIVE ENDS
On April 30 2011 07:19 InToTheWannaB wrote: oooo is carson palmer on his way out of cinnci?
Uhhh. He demanded a trade two months ago. When Cincy said no he said he would rather retire than play for them again. So yeah, Carson Palmer not coming back.
On April 30 2011 07:14 Fruscainte wrote: Also, I can't stop laughing at the Jaguars. I didn't even know what was going on when that pick happened, and I still can not stop laughing. Yeah, Gerrard isn't great but they needed more improvements than that.
I actually like the Jags pick A LOT. Gerrard will play a few more years while Gabbart sits and learns. Not to mention they didn't sell the farm to get him and picked him at #10 which was a great spot considering most analysts had him top 5.
EPT
